Steve Vernon and Naomi Karp: Proactively Addressing Cognitive Decline

0:03
welcome to fun with annuities with your

0:06
host me Stan the annuity man America's

0:10
annuity agent can annuities be fun can

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annuities with no sales pitches or high

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factual annuity truth which is all you

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need to hear let's have some fun with

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right now

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[Music]

0:39
welcome to fun with annuities I'm your

0:41
host Stan the annuity man America's

0:43
annuity agent licensed in all 50 states

0:45
really excited about today's program we

0:48
have multiple guests on typically it's

0:49
just one guest now we have two which is

0:52
fantastic there's so much IQ in the room

0:54
I need to just leave because there's a

0:56
lot of smart people here uh one of the

0:58
guests has been on before his name is

1:00
Steve Vernon he um we're going to have

1:03
links to a site

1:04
restoflifecommunications.com rest of

1:06
Life communications.com all one word

1:09
um he's a consultant he's an expert he's

1:11
an academian he's just an all-around

1:15
good guy but very very smart but today's

1:17
topic is going to be a great one because

1:19
he's brought a guest on as well her name

1:21
is Naomi carp and she is an elder law

1:23
attorney and she also is a consultant

1:26
Nationwide on Aging law and policy which

1:30
is very interesting with my group that

1:32
follows me in my client base Etc they're

1:35
mostly Baby Boomers and baby boomers are

1:37
kind of rolling into that chapter two of

1:41
their lives and I think this is a very

1:45
very good topic because we're talking

1:47
about

1:48
cognitive loss potential cognitive loss

1:51
and ways to go about

1:55
combating that from a standpoint of risk

1:57
of financial loss so I'm going to have

2:00
their site they have a great site that

2:02
I'm going to point you to called

2:03
thinking ahead

2:06
roadmap.org thinking ahead roadmap.org

2:09
I'm going to put that link on our site

2:11
as well but let's just jump in with a

2:14
question Naomi I'm gonna I'm gonna ask

2:16
you first about just how how your path

2:21
has led you to this very interesting

2:25
specialty and in a world of demographic

2:28
title ways where 10 000 baby boomers are

2:30
hitting age 65 every single day actually

2:32
more than that

2:33
tell tell us kind of your background as

2:37
being an elder law attorney and how that

2:39
has transformed itself to being a

2:41
consultant on aging and the policy that

2:44
affects that can you give us a little

2:45
background there sure and I'll try to

2:48
make it short

2:49
but since I'm a baby boomer I have many

2:52
years of experience so I'm I'm right

2:56
there with the population we're talking

2:58
about

2:59
um so many many years ago I went to law

3:02
school because I wanted to be a public

3:04
interest lawyer I wanted to do use the

3:07
law and policy to do good in the world

3:08
and for the first 10 years of my career

3:11
I was a legal services lawyer which

3:14
means I represented low income and older

3:17
people who couldn't afford lawyers in a

3:19
variety of civil matters not not

3:21
criminal and during that time I kind of

3:25
became specialized in issues of older

3:29
adults and there are a whole spectrum of

3:31
issues you know some are the same as

3:34
younger adults you know maybe they're

3:36
getting evicted or maybe they need some

3:38
kind of public benefits but you know

3:41
they also get involved in advanced

3:44
planning for the possibility that they

3:47
might become disabled or incapacitated

3:49
in some way which is going to lead to

3:51
where we're going today

3:54
um you know lots of issues that

3:56
particularly impact older adults at some

4:01
point in my career I moved to Washington

4:03
DC which is kind of the heart of policy

4:06
and policy making and advocacy and

4:08
research so I switched from representing

4:11
older adults directly and worked more on

4:15
a kind of system level on issues

4:18
everywhere from Social Security and and

4:23
Medicaid and end-of-life decision making

4:26
to

4:28
elder abuse and financial exploitation

4:31
and scams and all of that stuff and so

4:33
in my career in Washington I worked for

4:36
two non-profits including AARP the Big

4:40
Kahuna

4:42
um and then the very last part of my

4:46
full-time work career I worked for a new

4:49
federal agency that was just opening its

4:51
doors called the Consumer Financial

4:53
Protection Bureau which

4:55
some people know of it as uh it kind of

4:59
came out of an idea that Elizabeth

5:00
Warren once had but then Congress passed

5:03
the Dodd-Frank Act and the agency

5:06
came into being and it was specifically

5:09
mandated by Congress to have an office

5:11
looking out for the financial protection

5:13
of older Americans so I spent eight

5:16
years there it was fantastic setting up

5:19
the office and putting out tools and

5:22
Publications and you know things for

5:25
older people and for all the people who

5:27
interact with them everything from Banks

5:29
to

5:30
law enforcement Etc so now the past

5:34
um almost three years I've been a

5:36
consultant and I do work for non-profits

5:40
and government entities and private

5:43
entities and so forth and here I am a

5:46
couple years ago was able to meet Steve

5:48
and then a third partner of ours Marty

5:51
delima we all had a connection at that

5:53
point with the Stanford center on

5:55
longevity and

5:57
then we got to this project and I'll

5:59
I'll let it go there that was probably

6:01
more than you needed that's that's

6:03
that's wonderful and I'm glad you you

6:05
gave us that background because uh in

6:07
the past I had done some work with

6:09
Elizabeth Warren's office they contacted

6:11
me about an article I wrote a long time

6:12
ago and we were trying to eliminate the

6:15
incentive trips and things like that

6:16
within the annuity industry

6:18
um and she wrote a very good I helped uh

6:20
with the writing a very good report and

6:22
and obviously it got kind of stalled a

6:25
little bit because the insurance

6:25
industry is Pretty Tough from a lobbying

6:27
standpoint but but have been in those

6:29
trenches with you and trying to protect

6:31
seniors out here because it is uh

6:33
there's it's like Chum in the water and

6:34
and blood in the water I mean they're

6:36
circling and it is bad Steve I want to

6:38
jump in with you because

6:40
um there are risks of financial losses

6:43
due due to cognitive decline what have

6:46
you and your Associates found and what's

6:48
what's glaring to you that's happening

6:50
right now

6:52
well it's pretty clear uh both

6:55
professionally and personally because

6:57
I've gone through this with my parents

6:58
as has Naomi so we've seen it firsthand

7:01
with our relatives but also seeing it uh

7:06
out in the world you know you get into

7:08
your 70s late 70s 80s 90s and

7:14
um

7:14
let's just be frank you're just quite

7:16
not as sharp as you used to be sure and

7:21
of course the age varies according to

7:23
each person but it really is the case

7:26
that you're more vulnerable to Simply

7:29
making mistakes or

7:32
uh being exploited by unscrupulous

7:36
relatives or friends it may not be

7:38
illegal but it might not be the best in

7:41
your interest or even outright fraud

7:44
and so uh we really see the need for

7:48
preparing for this

7:50
inevitability for a lot of people and

7:53
it's real natural I'm I'm in my late 60s

7:55
it's like oh that's gonna happen that'll

7:57
never happen or that'll happen sometime

7:59
in the future right the best time to

8:01
plan for that is when you still have all

8:04
your your wits intact and put safeguards

8:07
in place later to be triggered when you

8:11
might need them

8:12
because what will happen we I've seen

8:15
this all too often

8:16
instead of this preparing for it

8:20
some event happens where the senior you

8:23
know gets defrauded or makes a mistake

8:25
or has a big loss and then their adult

8:28
children swoop in and clean things up

8:31
and not only is that a big mess and

8:33
their losses have already occurred but

8:35
when the kids are making decisions for

8:37
you they may not have your best

8:38
interests at heart not that they're

8:40
trying to mess you up they just can't

8:42
get in your head and know what you're

8:44
doing correct and so I'm we're saying

8:46
have the senior take charge of the plan

8:50
and develop the plan now

8:52
to be triggered when you need it down

8:54
the road

8:57
Naomi how prevalent

9:00
is this type of risk and um

9:02
I know this is kind of a broad question

9:04
but how much can seniors lose um I don't

9:07
know if that's answerable but I'd rather

9:09
you address the prevalency of the risk

9:12
um and the other thing that I'd like you

9:14
to talk about is we all have egos and we

9:17
all have um you know there's some

9:19
embarrassment issues when you do make

9:21
mistakes or you have been taken

9:23
how are you looking at that and how do

9:27
you talk to seniors or have seniors

9:30
address the fact that they're not firing

9:32
on all cylinders

9:33
you know at the end of life or as they

9:35
as they go through chapter two that

9:38
seems to be the toughest thing because

9:39
when I have that conversation with my

9:41
clients I'm like listen you're you're an

9:43
A personality and you're you're kicking

9:45
it right now but there will be a time

9:47
that you will not be so we might want to

9:49
plan on turning uh some of the

9:51
investments into TurnKey type

9:52
Investments how prevalent is this risk

9:55
for seniors

9:57
okay so we're really talking about a few

10:00
different kinds of risk here so I don't

10:03
think I can give you one number for any

10:05
of these but let me just sort of throw

10:07
out a few things that I think all feed

10:09
into it so so Steve talked about the

10:12
different kinds of risks that we're

10:14
trying to protect against so it could be

10:16
mistakes that just happen because you

10:19
are starting to have some kind of

10:21
cognitive decline or it could be the

10:24
outright

10:25
um fraud or financial exploitation

10:27
so when it comes to financial

10:29
exploitation

10:31
um there have been some really good

10:33
studies that have shown that the you

10:36
know the prevalence of financial

10:38
exploitation even let's just talk about

10:40
financial exploitation by a family

10:43
member or someone you know and trust you

10:46
know is probably around five percent

10:49
that's great

10:51
and then you add in all the strangers

10:54
frauds and scams you know that could be

10:57
someone in another country it could be

10:59
someone who you think is romantically

11:02
involved in you who you met online who

11:04
is actually not even a real person

11:06
they're just such a broad array of kinds

11:09
of financial exploitation and fraud so

11:13
you know then we could be getting up to

11:15
you know one in ten people or even more

11:17
the studies are not that

11:20
um

11:21
necessarily that reliable it's a really

11:23
hard to drill down on that and you

11:25
mentioned the issue of embarrassment

11:27
that makes it even harder correct so you

11:29
might you know a great academician might

11:31
do a study and someone might be too

11:34
embarrassed to admit that this actually

11:35
happened to me or

11:38
um you're doing a survey and you're not

11:40
necessarily even getting at the people

11:41
who already have the cognitive decline

11:44
if someone has Alzheimer's you know

11:46
they're probably not going to be

11:47
answering a a survey so it's hard to get

11:52
your hands around a number but we know

11:54
the numbers are big and then you asked

11:57
about you know how much can people lose

11:59
people can really lose a lot yeah

12:03
um you know it could be somebody losing

12:05
50 bucks in some little online scam or

12:09
it could be someone losing all of their

12:12
life savings I mean we have horrible

12:15
stories of

12:16
um I mean I'll just give you one example

12:19
from like a million different types

12:21
um

12:22
let's say someone convinces a relative

12:26
or a friend or someone in their

12:27
Community to name them as an agent on

12:31
your power of attorney giving them a

12:34
whole lot of authority

12:35
or to put them on a joint bank account

12:37
let's say oh it'll be so much more

12:39
convenient for you that person then has

12:42
the means and the Privacy to go in and

12:46
just wipe out those accounts so we have

12:50
people losing millions of dollars we

12:52
have people losing hundreds of dollars

12:55
depends how much you have it might be

12:57
your whole life savings and we always

12:59
say one of the real dangers here is that

13:02
when people are up into their later

13:04
years and especially 80s and 90s when

13:07
these things are probably even more

13:09
common

13:10
um or even 70s you're not in a position

13:12
to earn it back you can't replenish that

13:15
nest egg that you had so that's another

13:18
reason why it's so dangerous

13:22
um I think you asked me more but it was

13:24
a lot of questions I appreciate you I

13:26
know I I'm I'm fascinated by this topic

13:28
and see before I've got a question for

13:30
you before I I I go further on that I

13:33
wanted to just read something from their

13:35
site which is think thinking ahead

13:39
roadmap.roadmap.org I'll have that link

13:40
but it says one in five people aged 75

13:43
to 79 have mild cognitive impairment or

13:46
dementia and this risk increases to one

13:50
in two

13:51
for people in their 80s now at that site

13:54
they actually have something fantastic

13:56
which is a road map that you can either

13:58
download it or you can order a print

14:00
copy there's all kinds of news there's a

14:03
Blog there's

14:04
they do a great job and this is a site

14:07
that you want to put as one of your

14:08
favorites because what you're doing is

14:10
you're piggybacking off off of these

14:13
Decades of experience with Steve and

14:15
Naomi and just their passion for trying

14:18
to help and prevent seniors from from

14:21
losing money Steve what should seniors

14:23
do to protect themselves and and their

14:26
families and the money they work so hard

14:28
to accumulate because we all know that

14:31
senior citizens

14:33
however you want to Define that they

14:36
control the majority of the wealth in

14:38
this country that's just the that's the

14:40
bottom line so what does that mean

14:41
anyone in the financial services

14:43
business

14:44
targets them Target might be a good or a

14:48
bad word in this case we're talking

14:49
about it from a bad word how do people

14:51
protect themselves

14:54
well Stan uh that's the heart of our

14:56
thinking head road map and so on the

14:59
website we have something called money

15:00
path and it's a six step plan that

15:04
seniors can follow to prepare in advance

15:07
for the situation and always we're

15:09
trying to prepare in advance

15:12
um and so let me just quickly read the

15:13
six steps um one is choose a trusted

15:18
Financial Advocate and that's find

15:20
someone in your life who can help you

15:23
manage your finances when you need that

15:25
help and it can for a lot of people it

15:28
might be their spouse but if they pick

15:30
their spouse recognize that their spouse

15:31
could be the same age and correct so if

15:33
you pick your spouse it should be a

15:35
backup you're like an adult child or

15:37
someone else you trust and uh however

15:40
for lots of people they don't have that

15:42
so you might have to get a professional

15:44
lots to talk about in each of these

15:45
steps

15:47
um but that's step one uh step two is

15:49
organize your financial information take

15:51
an inventory write it down give people a

15:53
road map to your finances

15:55
because you can imagine uh just imagine

15:57
if you're in a car crash

15:59
and you couldn't talk but someone had to

16:01
take over your finances what do they

16:03
need to know

16:05
um and I think that also includes let me

16:06
interject her that also includes sign-on

16:09
information log on information

16:12
um digital information digital

16:13
intellectual property as they say

16:16
um don't forget that you need to you

16:18
need to have that stored away in a safe

16:21
place and also with your financial

16:22
Advocate having access to that as well

16:25
so number three right right and I'm

16:28
going through these quickly our website

16:30
has all these things uh third is start a

16:34
conversation with the financial Advocate

16:36
you picked because either the senior

16:40
might be resistant The Advocate might be

16:42
resistant commonly oh Dad or Mom you're

16:44
fine right you know busy

16:47
so you got to start the conversation and

16:49
then step four once you've gotten

16:51
through that initial conversation is

16:53
then just explain your situation what

16:56
you expect from them what your goals are

16:58
what your values are

17:00
you know we see examples of of seniors

17:03
who supported certain Charities but once

17:06
their kids took over but

17:08
that charity gets cut off and you know

17:11
again it's just what are your priorities

17:13
that you want

17:15
now the most important one and here's

17:17
where you want to talk to Naomi is

17:18
officially appointing your Advocate

17:20
under a power of attorney and making

17:22
sure you do that in a legal way and

17:24
that's one of Naomi's many Specialties

17:26
so I'll let her talk about that sure and

17:29
then the sixth one is to acknowledge in

17:32
advance what the signs might be

17:34
that it's time to shift and the signs

17:38
can either be subtle or they can be just

17:41
wacky in the head you know like you had

17:43
a heart attack or something like that

17:44
but whatever it is have a plan in place

17:47
because it's so easy for people to get

17:50
to that age in life and still think

17:52
they're doing fine

17:54
in fact there's a graph in one of our

17:56
reports that shows

17:58
participants the seniors confidence and

18:01
their ability to manage by age and it's

18:04
a flat line they never lose confidence

18:06
in their ability to manage their

18:08
finances but then there's the actual

18:10
ability based on cognitive abilities of

18:12
people that age and it's a steady

18:13
decline sure so it's real common for

18:15
people to just think they're doing fine

18:17
I think if you commit in advance to say

18:20
oh you know when when my driver's

18:22
license gets taken away

18:24
um that's fine that there's some Frailty

18:26
involved and feeblemis involved and

18:28
there are many signs but just know I'm

18:30
in advance and say to your

18:33
your friends and family hey when you see

18:35
me doing this or that uh bring that to

18:39
my attention on a side note I recently

18:41
my mom lives in St Augustine Florida

18:43
she's getting ready to turn 84. and we

18:45
made the decision that she doesn't

18:47
really need to drive she doesn't see as

18:49
well and we set her up on an Uber so

18:52
that anytime she wants to go anywhere it

18:54
goes on my credit card she can she's got

18:56
I thought you now have a personal driver

18:58
and so she's really enjoying the freedom

19:01
of of going when she wants to go and we

19:04
found out that she was not going out at

19:07
night because she didn't like driving at

19:08
night now she's going out with her

19:10
friends at night because of this Uber

19:12
that we've set in place for so those are

19:14
some signs that we saw and obviously you

19:17
know um in the financial business so

19:19
I've seen the other as well and and

19:21
protecting her Naomi I wanted to Pivot

19:24
and all of this comes down to most

19:27
everything in life is communication

19:29
right and good communication proactively

19:31
but I also want you to weigh in from a

19:34
legal standpoint this isn't some

19:36
do-it-yourself situation you really need

19:39
to have a partnership with a very good

19:42
um you know elder law attorney do you

19:44
agree with me on that

19:46
I actually do agree with you that on

19:49
that we had a lot of conversation when

19:52
we were developing the road map

19:54
um and and I will mention that a lot of

19:57
research went into this so before we

20:00
actually even though we were all experts

20:02
in one way or another before we actually

20:04
sat down and created the road map we did

20:07
a bunch of expert interviews with

20:10
professionals as well as older adults

20:12
and caregivers with focus groups with

20:15
different segments of older people at

20:17
different ages

20:18
we did something called an online

20:21
community Forum we were where we

20:23
actually had 120 older people for a

20:26
two-week period and came online every

20:29
day and we gave them we threw out

20:31
questions and exercises and it was like

20:33
a brilliant chat room and we got just

20:36
all kinds of help from them about you

20:38
know what their thinking was how we

20:42
should message it what words resonated

20:44
for them what words were I turn off so

20:46
there's a lot behind this but getting

20:50
back to your question about the elder

20:52
law attorney we did struggle with the

20:56
issue of you know we didn't want our

20:58
tool to be sort of the Full Employment

21:01
for lawyers act for a lot of people out

21:04
there who think oh getting a lawyer it's

21:07
really expensive that's so complicated I

21:11
don't know who to go to

21:13
um

21:14
and in some cases those things might be

21:17
true in many cases they're not true but

21:22
over all of my years working on these

21:25
issues and especially working on things

21:27
like Powers of Attorney and Trust other

21:30
kinds of legal Arrangements that people

21:32
put in place sure I've really learned

21:35
that you have to do it right and if you

21:39
download a form from the Internet or you

21:42
know you use some free whatever that

21:46
somebody's out there to kind of hook you

21:48
into your services or whatever you may

21:52
not be doing yourself a favor because a

21:55
these things are governed by state law

21:57
so we want to make sure the document

21:59
that you create is valid under your

22:01
state law and that could even be simple

22:03
things like your state might require two

22:05
witnesses or they may not required to be

22:07
notarized you need to know that but your

22:10
state law let's say on power of attorney

22:13
is going to have other Provisions about

22:15
what kind of clause should or shouldn't

22:17
be in there also it really needs to be

22:20
tailored to you everyone a different

22:23
situation sure some people think oh I

22:26
hardly have any money you know if

22:29
anything I have a little money in the

22:30
bank I have my social security

22:33
um income and I have debt so why would I

22:38
need a lawyer you know I don't have

22:39
anything well it's just not true

22:41
everyone's situation is different you're

22:44
right you might you know so many older

22:46
people own a house or some real estate

22:48
so they might be house rich and cash

22:50
poor they're just a lot of nuances here

22:52
everyone's family situation is different

22:55
so yes I generally do recommend that

22:59
it's advisable for people to see a

23:02
lawyer when it comes to something like

23:04
making a power of attorney making sure

23:06
the power of attorney is the right

23:07
document for them if they have

23:10
complicated finances maybe they have

23:12
property in other states they own a

23:15
business whatever it could be that a

23:17
trust may be something they need and you

23:20
can't we can't answer those questions

23:22
generically those are the kinds of you

23:25
need some individual advice

23:27
um you know so we do recommend you know

23:29
shop around get recommendations you can

23:32
call several lawyers you can find out

23:33
what they would charge to do something

23:35
simple maybe you're eligible for

23:39
um some free legal services in your

23:41
community so lots of ways to go

23:44
well and it's just like medical advice

23:46
you don't do it yourself with medical

23:48
advice it's the same thing and this is

23:50
as important and what I found in my 30

23:53
plus years in the business is lawyers

23:55
that choose the elder law

23:58
track are different people

24:00
they are they they use their mouth and

24:03
their ears in proportion they listen and

24:06
this is a customizable situation Steve

24:10
what are the roadblocks I mean this

24:12
could be a roadblock the finding the

24:14
lawyer and maybe that's a it shouldn't

24:16
be a stopper for people but what are the

24:18
other roadblocks and challenges that

24:22
seniors face looking at this it's a

24:25
tough issue for people to look at in the

24:27
mirror and think about it but it's one

24:28
of those things where we need to what

24:30
are they facing there what are those

24:31
roadblocks

24:33
well uh let me start with I'd say the

24:36
emotional and psychological roadblocks

24:38
is that people are busy and yeah this is

24:41
a risk that might not happen for many

24:44
years it's like okay I've got other

24:46
things that are more important right now

24:48
and so to me the biggest risk is just

24:52
ignoring it being complacent assuming

24:55
that it won't happen I agree so I like

24:58
to say

24:59
um there are a series of critical

25:01
decisions as you transition into

25:03
retirement

25:04
and this is one of them that you need to

25:06
pay attention to as part of that

25:08
transition

25:10
and think of it uh so somewhere in you

25:14
know your mid 60s uh late 60s early 70s

25:18
at the latest that's kind of a Zone in

25:20
which you should focus on it

25:22
um so anyway that's that's one risk that

25:25
I think is probably the biggest one is

25:26
this complacency I'll do it tomorrow

25:29
but then once again beyond that other

25:32
risks are

25:34
uh yourself thinking it's not necessary

25:37
like we've talked about I or another one

25:40
is finding a financial Advocate um for

25:42
some people it's a natural they've got

25:44
an adult child or a spouse or somebody

25:47
but others don't and so it might take

25:50
some searching

25:51
to find someone uh another family member

25:55
or if you have to pay someone that you

25:58
know that's that's another risk that

26:00
people face is just getting the right

26:02
person in place could there be a

26:04
situation and I I asked this more from a

26:07
corporate setting I mean you have you

26:09
receive your extension extensive

26:11
background in the corporate world this

26:12
should be I I'm dying to hear your take

26:15
on it

26:16
since if there's not one person could

26:18
there be a board

26:20
of directors of your cognitive State I

26:24
mean could you have three could you have

26:25
two in other words instead of trusting

26:28
one maybe if you say listen

26:31
you're the people that I trust and love

26:33
it can't be all family members by the

26:35
way and you bring in you know a board of

26:38
directors to oversee and have these

26:39
conversations with and maybe it's your

26:42
lawyer have you seen that happen because

26:44
I know they have a board of directors

26:45
for my company

26:47
um and it does work because you have

26:49
some objective viewpoints coming from

26:51
different

26:52
um expertise levels what do you think

26:55
about that well I appreciate that and

26:57
yeah working the corporate world I can

26:58
relate to corporate border collectors

27:00
but the phrase I like more is developing

27:03
a convoy of support

27:04
is a more friend I like that

27:08
and so um yeah you might have one or two

27:12
people who are handling your finances

27:14
but then if you if you're really lucky

27:17
maybe you have some adult children who

27:19
check in on you

27:21
um

27:22
and are they're seeing you to make sure

27:25
that you're doing okay so it's not just

27:28
the finances that's a critical part

27:31
that's true just be uh logistical

27:34
support

27:36
um and then maybe it's involving your

27:37
neighbor across the street and say hey

27:39
neighbor would have you ever see me you

27:41
know fall down in the street or

27:42
something like that you know pick me up

27:43
right well pick me up and then call who

27:46
do you call exactly yeah

27:49
um and so it can just be building out

27:51
that Convoy of support and I it so and

27:54
again it's much more than just the

27:55
finances but definitely want to have the

27:57
finances in there in that Convoy yeah

27:59
you definitely you need a team go ahead

28:01
name it yes yeah just to jump in

28:04
um you know we have talked a lot about

28:06
you know whether should it be One

28:08
Financial Advocate or should it be

28:10
political and then you know especially

28:12
when you're coming down to how you make

28:14
it official with the power of attorney

28:17
um you know people certainly can have

28:19
more than one person they can have

28:21
co-agents

28:23
um they just need to be aware they

28:25
probably want to set it up so that

28:29
um whatever decision is made doesn't

28:31
require the sign off of two or three

28:34
people because that I'm very cumbersome

28:36
maybe this maybe you have three adult

28:39
children and you love them all and you

28:41
trust them all but they're in three

28:43
different states one lives around the

28:45
corner from you but the other to live

28:46
somewhere else and I know we're now

28:48
living in a virtual world but still you

28:51
know it's cumbersome so when it comes to

28:54
someone who might eventually be doing

28:56
all of your finances for you paying your

28:59
bills um

29:00
potentially collecting rent applying for

29:03
benefits all of these things maybe

29:06
making transactions on the market things

29:09
might have to happen quickly you don't

29:11
want to create roadblocks that didn't

29:13
have to be there so you could have

29:15
people in an alternate position another

29:18
thing you can do in something like a

29:20
power of attorney is let's say you want

29:22
to select one of your adult children

29:25
but you want everyone to feel included

29:28
and you also want to make sure that that

29:30
person you trust them but you kind of

29:33
want to verify that they're doing it

29:36
right you could actually write into a

29:38
document like a power of attorney that

29:41
that main person you have should give an

29:43
accounting let's say every six months to

29:46
your other adult child or your cousin or

29:49
your neighbor or whatever so they're

29:51
sort of accountable to someone sure that

29:53
really helps them keep good records and

29:56
then communicate about it and

29:57
communication is as We Know

30:00
you know ultimately so important we want

30:03
to avoid family conflict so those can be

30:06
good techniques as well

30:08
we're talking to Naomi carp and Steve

30:11
Vernon and they have a site they have

30:14
extensive background we could keep going

30:16
on that all day but they have a site

30:17
called thinking ahead roadmap.org

30:20
thinking ahead

30:22
roadmap.org all one word

30:24
and we're going to have that link on our

30:26
site but I was I was looking just at the

30:28
downloads you have free downloads and I

30:30
was just looking at some of the

30:32
downloads you have an example of a power

30:35
of attorney or tips to protect

30:37
retirement Investments and income and

30:41
like a financial spreadsheet that you

30:43
have you've laid it out so that people

30:46
don't have to create the wheel here

30:47
you've already done this and it's and

30:50
it's free you can download it you can

30:52
order the book I mean if you're if

30:53
you're not a a techie person they've set

30:56
it up for you to do either or so you

30:59
know of all the sites that I've seen in

31:01
a long long time and I'm always

31:02
searching for things that my clients can

31:04
use as as something positive in their

31:07
life

31:08
this is one of the best ones I've seen

31:11
and I know this is a hard conversation

31:13
for a lot of people to Stan are you

31:15
really talking about cognitive issues

31:16
yes I am

31:18
you know as a good friend of mine in the

31:20
Life Insurance business says one out of

31:21
one of us is going to die okay which is

31:24
not a good motivational speech but true

31:26
but I just read you the stats you know

31:29
about cognitive cognitive issues if you

31:32
make it into your 80s one out of two

31:35
so this is something that I know you

31:37
don't want to think about listeners and

31:39
viewers but I need you to I need you to

31:42
lean in right here

31:43
and connect with these two listen to

31:46
these two experts because they know what

31:48
they're talking about and it's time for

31:51
you to even though you you will say to

31:53
me hey Stan I don't need this I'm

31:55
hitting it on all cylinders I'm I'm

31:57
never gonna yes you are gonna lose it

31:58
you need to

32:00
you need to address this

32:03
um

32:04
we talk about some of the signs that it

32:06
might be time to transfer some of this

32:08
you know responsibility

32:11
but um

32:13
can you go into that a little bit more

32:15
Naomi about just kind of the signs and

32:19
what people should be aware of I don't

32:20
want them to become obsessive compulsive

32:23
about their cognitive abilities if they

32:26
lose their keys I don't want them to

32:27
fall off the cliff here because we all

32:29
do that but what do you what would you

32:31
give somebody from a pragmatic

32:32
standpoint on how to start thinking like

32:35
this or even not to wait until that

32:38
happens and to be proactive now

32:41
well first of all you hit the nail on

32:43
the head with that last thing you do

32:45
want to be proactive now because as

32:48
Steve mentioned earlier

32:50
um if you get to a point where you are

32:53
already making mistakes and you already

32:55
having cognitive challenges whether it

32:57
be mild cognitive impairment or dementia

33:00
full-blown dementia

33:02
not only won't you really be able to

33:05
think through these things in the best

33:07
possible way but legally you won't even

33:10
be able to put someone in place you

33:12
can't make a power of attorney if you

33:14
don't have full capacity to understand

33:16
what it means to make a power of

33:18
attorney and how to choose someone and

33:21
what kinds of things they can do so you

33:24
have to do it when you're still

33:26
have capacity so yeah doing it now is

33:30
the thing

33:31
um when you're talking about red flags

33:34
or warning signs that maybe that is

33:37
starting to happen you know particularly

33:39
in relationship to finances you know and

33:42
we're not here to replace the you know

33:46
psychologists and geriatricians and all

33:49
the people who actually do these

33:50
capacity assessments we're just talking

33:52
more generally about you know what do

33:54
people need to know

33:56
so you know things like you're starting

33:59
to make a lot of mistakes they could be

34:01
Financial mistakes they could be things

34:03
as simple and and we see this all the

34:06
time uh people forgetting to pay a bill

34:10
um let's say you don't have your your

34:12
utilities or whatever your monthly

34:14
payments are on auto pay and you just

34:17
start forgetting to make those payments

34:19
or sometimes people are paying it twice

34:22
or three times

34:24
you know maybe they're still writing a

34:26
check they send a check and then a

34:28
couple days later they send a check

34:30
again so memory issues for getting to do

34:34
things like that

34:36
um and it could be things that aren't

34:39
Financial you know you're forgetting

34:42
doctor's appointments you're forgetting

34:44
I mean my mother who has advanced

34:46
dementia now she's 97 when she first

34:49
started declining

34:51
there were two ways that I and I was

34:54
living 200 miles away from her two

34:57
things kind of set off my alarm Bell

34:59
that said

35:01
mom needs to live closer to me and we

35:04
need to have more systems in place one

35:07
was she was starting to forget she would

35:09
make a date with my cousin and then she

35:11
would not show up and that my cousin

35:14
would call her and she'd say oh Judy's

35:17
so nice to hear from you like no clue

35:19
that she was Judy was standing on the

35:21
corner waiting for her to go to the

35:22
movies

35:23
um the other thing is she was starting

35:25
to put things on the stove and then go

35:27
in the back room and do something and

35:29
the next thing she knew she smelled the

35:31
pot burning so

35:34
little things like that that can be kind

35:37
of disastrous

35:38
[Music]

35:39
um

35:40
you know it's things like that

35:42
um maybe you're making some bad choices

35:45
with your Investments your

35:48
um you're falling for a scam I mean

35:50
people when they start losing the

35:52
capacity to handle finances yeah you

35:55
start losing the judgment about what is

35:58
legitimate and what isn't and that's

36:01
that's been documented with studies and

36:04
by the way the capacity to handle

36:06
finances is one of the first kinds of

36:09
capacity to go when you start having

36:11
cognitive impairment you know probably

36:15
earlier than a lot of other things like

36:17
making how to make Health Care decisions

36:19
and other personal care things it's the

36:22
finances that often will go first

36:24
and I know that AARP who you used to

36:27
work with and for Naomi they've done a

36:30
great job and they they continue to

36:31
address this issue proactively Steve I

36:34
want to Pivot and ask you a question

36:36
about we've been talking about people

36:38
that are Baby Boomers and just things to

36:40
be aware of but there's a lot of people

36:41
that are listening and viewing this

36:43
podcast that are the children uh 40s and

36:46
50s I don't know what A's are and

36:48
they're thinking wait a minute I need to

36:49
start thinking about this with my mom or

36:51
my dad or my uncle or my grandmother or

36:54
whoever and they're the ones to start

36:56
that conversation they're the ones to

36:58
proactively

37:00
make their senior loved ones aware of

37:03
the risk and the challenges and and

37:05
start showing them the tools that you

37:07
have provided on your site

37:11
coach them through that a little bit

37:13
because that's a tough one like if I

37:15
walked up to my mom and go you know what

37:16
Mom kind of lose it a little bit that's

37:18
not the way to do it right I mean she's

37:20
got she's a southerner and she's like

37:22
get out of my face Sonny you know who do

37:24
you think you are how do you how do you

37:27
gently go into that conversation even if

37:31
that person is not you don't even think

37:34
they're losing uh cognitive ability

37:36
you're just trying to be proactive as a

37:38
loved one

37:40
well thanks Stan for posing that

37:43
question and I've got some ideas but let

37:46
me just start with if you're listening

37:47
and you're in your 40s and 50s

37:50
um this could plop in your lap if your

37:53
parents don't be proactive about it yeah

37:56
and it might pop in your lap when you're

37:58
still in your career and busy or with

38:00
your family so that's kind of the

38:02
motivation is that what we found is that

38:05
people want to be independent in their

38:08
lives and they don't want to depend on

38:10
others but

38:12
most of the time Family jumps in when

38:15
there's a problem

38:16
and the family is the insurance company

38:19
here you know

38:21
so that's the motivation is that it

38:23
could happen at your busiest time so if

38:26
you can motivate your parents

38:28
or your uncles or aunts uh people in

38:31
your lives that you know you would step

38:32
in for if the chips were down then start

38:34
helping them be proactive

38:36
so back to your question how can you

38:39
kind of gently

38:40
get people to think about it

38:43
um maybe there's somebody in your family

38:45
who's much older and they're starting to

38:48
lose it and it's pretty obvious so you

38:49
know that Uncle Harry say to your

38:51
parents your Uncle Harry he's not doing

38:53
that well and oh yeah and you start

38:55
sympathizing and talking about it and I

38:57
sure hope he's done something to protect

38:58
his finances you know it's less

39:01
threatening if you talk about somebody

39:03
else good point mom you're losing it

39:05
good idea

39:06
so that's that's one suggestion

39:09
um and then but then to get start

39:12
drilling down

39:13
well um instead of saying hey Mom you're

39:16
losing it it could be you know I've

39:17
heard I heard an interesting show stand

39:19
the annuity man had a great show about

39:21
this and uh and said how important it is

39:24
to protect your finances you get older

39:26
and have you thought about that you know

39:30
we found in our research that

39:32
um asking questions is far more engaging

39:36
than directive statements

39:39
so asking a question have you thought

39:41
about how you might protect yourself

39:42
when you get older

39:45
um

39:46
then it doesn't put them on the

39:47
defensive it makes them have I thought

39:49
about that

39:50
you know so at least those are I'd say

39:52
stories and questions are the two types

39:55
of things that are really engaging to

39:57
people and I think what Naomi said

39:59
earlier which which kind of popped out

40:01
at me there has to be and this might be

40:03
the lawyer in you but there has to be

40:06
protocols in place and what whether

40:08
they're subtle planned

40:12
um and ongoing there has to be protocols

40:14
in place for you to be kind of checking

40:16
off the boxes if you're the if you're

40:18
the caregiver loved one son daughter

40:20
granddaughter whatever because I think

40:23
this podcast can be for the person

40:25
that's listening that's going yeah I am

40:27
a senior I really don't have a lot of

40:28
people around me and I probably need to

40:31
be proactive with that but I think

40:32
bigger than that are people like myself

40:36
um that have my mom and I'm trying and

40:38
my wife's mom and we're trying to be

40:40
proactive I'm not going to tell you

40:42
which one's more cantankerous uh when we

40:45
approach them about that but one of them

40:47
is not buying it they don't want to uh

40:51
believe that they're going to be needing

40:53
that kind of help and a lot of it maybe

40:55
I was gonna name I was gonna ask you

40:57
this for the for the person out there

40:59
the senior citizen that needs to address

41:01
this and the third parties coming in

41:03
with the son or daughter there's a

41:06
secretive issue there's a lot of people

41:08
that don't want to reveal what they have

41:10
even to their family

41:12
what do you do there because the you

41:14
know if you're trying to be their

41:16
Advocate and they're only telling you

41:18
about 25 of what they have and they got

41:20
a bunch of bearer bonds stuck in the

41:21
Bible on the Shelf how do you address

41:24
that because that's got to be an issue

41:25
as well

41:27
yeah so a couple of things and that

41:29
again is something we talked about a lot

41:32
you know what if what if you are ready

41:35
to talk to someone about the fact that

41:37
you might need their help later but

41:40
you're not ready to open the books right

41:42
yes and we think that's okay

41:47
um

41:48
it's okay to say I'm not going to share

41:51
all my finances with you now I'm still

41:54
fine I'm handling it

41:57
but you got to give them something so

41:59
you have to say

42:01
I've gotten it organized and I've got

42:05
this locked drawer or you know I've got

42:09
a password keeper online that'll you

42:12
know get you you have to give them a key

42:16
to something a lock box a location of a

42:19
drawer hopefully not you know the

42:22
Bible's on the third shelf a little bit

42:25
less so you know

42:27
mysterious and hard to find than that

42:30
but you got to give them just enough so

42:33
that later when they really need the

42:36
details they'll know where to find them

42:38
but it's a hard it's a hard balance

42:40
because we are part of our message is

42:44
that we're trying to protect your

42:46
Independence and your autonomy as long

42:48
as possible sure and actually the more

42:51
you plan

42:52
the more you are keeping control because

42:56
you're picking the person who's going to

42:58
step in you're telling them how you want

43:01
them to do it when the time comes you're

43:04
telling them how you want your money

43:06
spent and all of that but um you have to

43:10
at least open the door and let them in

43:12
part way

43:13
but I think people can do that

43:15
successfully I think that's a good way

43:17
to put it Steve this is this is this

43:19
dovetails into what we all describe as

43:22
end of life planning

43:24
but it's for whatever reason it's

43:26
something that

43:28
um

43:29
just is Hard One to bring up

43:32
um but I think that you know we talked

43:34
about the privacy issues and the ego

43:36
issues and the embarrassment issues but

43:39
what I want my listeners and viewers to

43:40
realize is there's eventuality issues as

43:43
well this will eventually

43:46
visit you or your family and I just

43:49
Naomi just keeps saying proactive please

43:52
be proactive put the protocols in place

43:54
and Steve can you address the

43:56
possibility of just the patience factor

43:59
of addressing a loved one and just

44:02
taking it and baby steps over time

44:04
because I'm assuming you have seen that

44:06
as well

44:07
right and

44:09
um and I actually had something I had

44:11
the Naomi's last yeah please do yeah

44:13
please do

44:14
here I worked on this with Naomi and

44:16
Marty and uh I couldn't

44:19
tell my son who's the financial Advocate

44:21
our account amounts

44:24
just like that it was just something

44:26
made me want to be private I couldn't

44:28
give up but I did give them a list I we

44:31
have accounts here here and here here

44:33
are the phone numbers here are the

44:35
account numbers I just didn't put the

44:36
amounts in there you know so that and I

44:40
said if you need it you know you can

44:41
call them they'll tell you the amounts

44:42
you know so I'm just giving that as one

44:45
way to give them the information they

44:47
need without having to reveal how much

44:50
money you have in there and that can go

44:52
a couple different ways some people are

44:53
ashamed at how little they have agreed

44:56
are kind of private they don't want to

44:58
show how much they have you know go

44:59
either way

45:00
so I just wanted to share that you can

45:02
you're beautiful that's interesting um

45:04
and I think I think uh Naomi had a good

45:08
idea I was talking about

45:10
um just putting some protocols in place

45:12
like for instance my mom when my when my

45:15
dad passed away five years ago we she

45:18
had really never been involved in the

45:19
Bills or the finances she was the mom

45:21
she grew up in the South North Carolina

45:23
nothing wrong with that but uh she just

45:26
didn't have any um experience so we put

45:28
all of the bills that we could on

45:30
autopay

45:31
[Music]

45:32
now what happened which is interesting

45:34
you're probably familiar with this

45:36
because you've done the research there

45:38
are companies out there in nefarious

45:39
companies that will send multiple bills

45:42
to seniors for them to pay

45:44
they'll send cards or you know uh

45:47
postcards that say have you paid your

45:49
bill yet and my mom will call me I said

45:51
it's on autopay Mom okay tear that up

45:54
and tell me who that company is so we

45:56
can report them

45:59
um

46:00
she she kind of bristled a little bit

46:02
when we did the auto pay because I think

46:04
she felt like we thought she was pitiful

46:07
but now she's embraced it because she's

46:09
like well I don't have to worry about

46:10
that because it's taken care of

46:13
um

46:14
do you have any other anecdotes to

46:15
stories that maybe can help the people

46:17
out here that are listening to it relate

46:19
to what you guys are trying to do

46:22
well and Stan you just hit on a good

46:25
solution

46:26
um to help convince people is it'll be

46:28
easier for you yes

46:30
um now you still have to pay attention

46:32
and autopay is one of the worst things

46:34
that when someone passes away

46:38
that's true that is true but um I think

46:43
here's another subtle warning sign is

46:46
that do you ever get frustrated talking

46:49
on the phone

46:50
with uh people at the bank or your

46:53
insurance company or having to deal with

46:55
it online

46:56
right now at this age you know we deal

46:58
with we we put up with it but later some

47:01
people just go ah buoy and they hang up

47:03
that's a sign but also it's that's a

47:06
sign that might be time to start

47:07
thinking about transitioning or a plan

47:09
for it but also it's a sign of how you

47:11
can get them to buy in you know oh if

47:14
you don't wanna

47:15
have that frustration of dealing with

47:18
these folks set up the plan now put it

47:20
on auto pay

47:22
um and it's not just the bills that can

47:24
go on auto pay

47:26
um I we talk about protecting your

47:28
savings yes and if you you can do a

47:31
couple things to put your cash flow on

47:33
autopay like an automatic withdrawal

47:36
from your

47:38
investments into your checking account

47:40
almost like paycheck you're paying

47:42
yourself correct buying annuity which

47:44
you might know something about yeah we

47:45
do have we do have some you know I'll

47:47
have some proactive spouses that'll say

47:49
both female and males say you know what

47:52
I'm just going to go ahead and buy this

47:53
annuity joint life just in case down the

47:55
road we're not hitting on all cylinders

47:58
this money is going to be hitting the

47:59
bank account we're going to be okay

48:01
Etc obviously I want to them to get

48:03
their loved ones involved but yes there

48:05
are some Investments on just annuities

48:06
that that can be TurnKey uh in nature I

48:10
think what's interesting about both of

48:12
you and I wish I hope to have you on

48:13
again with Marty uh Marty could be with

48:15
us today but um it's just

48:19
the philanthropic feeling of what you

48:21
guys are doing you've you've established

48:23
these things to really really help you

48:26
both have successful careers this is

48:28
something that obviously is a passion

48:29
for you

48:31
um where do you see this headed what's

48:33
the plan for thinking ahead roadmap

48:36
what's the plan for this because it it

48:39
needs I'm gonna blast it out as best I

48:41
can

48:42
but where is it headed from here Naomi

48:44
can you address that

48:46
yeah

48:47
um

48:48
and that is something that we've

48:50
grappled with and I I've you know for my

48:54
many years in kind of Public Service

48:56
career

48:58
you think of a project you do the

49:00
research you create the tool you print

49:03
it you got that nice design cover you've

49:05
got a great website whatever and you're

49:07
like you're done well no you're not done

49:10
that's actually just

49:13
you know the first step because if you

49:15
don't get it out there and people don't

49:16
use it sure worthless so we've been

49:20
giving a lot of thought to you know how

49:22
do we really get this out there once

49:25
people get their hands on it oh yeah and

49:27
understand it

49:29
I think we're most of the way there

49:33
because hopefully we have created in a

49:36
way that it's understandable we answer a

49:38
lot of questions and a lot of things

49:39
that people can do independently yes but

49:42
it's getting people getting it into

49:45
people's hands so one thing that we're

49:48
working on right now is we want to make

49:51
it easy for people in different

49:53
businesses and professions and Service

49:55
careers to present workshops or or

49:59
classes on the thinking ahead roadmap to

50:03
get from an audience in their Community

50:05
you know it could be

50:08
um

50:09
it could be HR in a company or an

50:12
employee assistance program saying this

50:14
is a great tool for our employees to use

50:17
for themselves and their parents so

50:20
let's do a workshop on it it could be a

50:22
senior center or some other local place

50:25
it could be a faith-based organization

50:28
it could be an elder law attorney's

50:30
practice there's just so many potential

50:32
people who could deliver this so we are

50:35
actually in the process of creating some

50:38
facilitator materials good creating a

50:41
PowerPoint

50:43
um it's got the basics of the road map

50:45
it's got little

50:47
participatory exercises where people can

50:50
go into Pairs and talk about these

50:52
things group discussions icons

50:55
[Music]

50:56
um just lots of things to make it simple

50:58
so we're trying to make it Plug and Play

51:00
so people like you people out there in

51:05
their communities can say hey I've got a

51:07
ready-made program yep I can deliver in

51:10
three hours or if I don't have three

51:12
hours there's the one hour version and I

51:15
have little handouts for people so

51:18
that's what we're working on a way to

51:20
get it more broadly disseminated but we

51:23
certainly do appreciate you and anyone

51:25
else

51:26
uh who does podcasts who are media who

51:29
can tell people about it too so we're

51:31
really thrilled that you have something

51:33
it's been a pleasure and we look forward

51:35
to having you on again I'd like to dig

51:37
even deeper this is more of an

51:39
introductory thing for us to to

51:41
introduce you to our

51:43
um our growing podcast listenership and

51:46
it's Nationwide and so we're reaching

51:47
everybody out there in this Evergreen

51:49
content which means they get to view it

51:51
over and over and over and it's going to

51:53
be on my side in perpetuity so you know

51:55
we're very very happy because we to have

51:57
you on because this is a big issue and

52:00
it's an issue that I I'm kind of a as

52:03
you can tell I'm just kind of brutal

52:05
with my Approach I just ask people hey

52:07
are you planning for cognitive decline I

52:09
mean I I'm pretty brutal with people

52:12
um and if they say no I'm like well you

52:14
need to player because it's going to

52:16
happen to you you need we need to talk

52:17
about it

52:19
um I know that's not the right approach

52:20
for everyone but um it was important for

52:23
me so when Steve reached out and said I

52:24
said the the topic I'm like abs

52:26
absolutely do want to talk about that

52:28
we've kind of Hit the the end of the

52:30
program but what I do every single time

52:31
Steve's uh used to this I'm going to

52:34
throw it to him Naomi you get it the

52:36
next time but what I do is the mic drop

52:38
moment and the mic drop moment at the

52:39
end is I throw the mic to Steve he's

52:42
going to be speaking for both of you on

52:43
this on on behalf of both of you and the

52:46
mic drop moment is just kind of words of

52:48
wisdom you know a 30 second a minute

52:50
words of wisdom to people to to tell

52:53
them you know why this is important and

52:55
just to tie this thing up and I'll close

52:56
this out so go ahead Steve

52:58
well uh thank you Stan and thanks for

53:01
having us shout out I'd say reflect

53:04
um almost everybody our age has stories

53:06
of older friends or family parents

53:10
where something has happened like this

53:13
and so reflect on that and what how did

53:15
that make you feel

53:17
and

53:19
um use that because I put a lot of

53:21
people it generates some kind of fear or

53:23
anxiety don't be paralyzed use that fear

53:27
and anxiety to motivate yourself I'm

53:29
gonna do something for me that not only

53:31
is going to be good for me but it'll

53:33
give my family peace of mind

53:36
and so peace of mind I think is an

53:39
important topic give yourself peace of

53:40
mind give your adult kids grandkids your

53:44
neighbors peace of mind that you are in

53:46
charge and you're smart and you're

53:48
taking care of this you're proactive

53:49
you're a smart thinker

53:52
um that's the message is be smart be

53:55
proactive proactive I think is the

53:57
takeaway word from this

53:59
um that I that I'm taking away but I

54:01
want to thank Naomi just fantastic to

54:04
meet you

54:05
um I'm smarter just being in the same

54:07
podcast room with you Steve the same

54:09
with you you know you guys are really

54:11
really smart I really appreciate you

54:12
being on the fun with annuities podcast

54:15
the one of the fastest growing podcasts

54:17
in the country for this reason we have

54:19
real people on that are really smart and

54:21
trying to help so I appreciate everyone

54:23
joining us and I will see you next week

54:29
thanks for listening to fun with

54:32
annuities please hit the Subscribe

54:34
button and make sure to go to my site at

54:36
the annuityman.com where you can run

54:39
your own speed idea and culac quotes and

54:42
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54:44
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54:46
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54:48
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54:52
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54:54
for free and under no obligation I also

54:57
encourage you to schedule a one-on-one

54:59
call with me Stan the annuity man so we

55:02
can have a full discussion of your

55:04
specific situation it will be the best

55:07
brutally factual and truthful advice you

55:10
will ever get and that's one guarantee

55:12
you should definitely take advantage of

55:14
so join me next time for the number one

55:16
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55:20
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55:23
[Music]