Sheryl Garrett: Financial Planning On YOUR Terms

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welcome to fun with annuities with your

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host me stan the annuity man america's

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annuity agent can annuities be fun can

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contractual guarantees be fun

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absolutely they can find out the brutal

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facts about annuities with no sales

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pitches or high pressure nonsense just

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the brutal and factual annuity truth

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which is all you need to hear

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let's have some fun with annuities and

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let's have that fun start right now

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[Music]

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welcome to fun with annuities i'm your

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host stan the annuity man america's

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annuity agent i am so glad you joined me

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today we actually have royalty

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in our midst her name is cheryl garrett

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i'm going to talk to you i'm going to

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talk to her for the full time period and

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maybe go over that because she is so

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knowledgeable and i'm so happy that

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she's here but let me tell you a little

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bit about her and then i'll have her go

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into details

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about who she is and how she came to

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this place

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of

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a fame

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in the financial planning world she's

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the co-founder of garrett investment

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advisors now known as cgn advisors

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and had she's been called the

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all-american planner

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because she is kind of the starter of

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this fee only

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hourly based financial planning model

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she started garrett planning network in

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2000 she's been recognized six times by

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investment investment advisor magazine

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as one of the most influential people in

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financial planning

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we could keep going she's won just about

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every award out there

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um and a recent podcast guest who i had

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on rick ferry is a protege of hers

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and she said before we went on that

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she's a

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kind of the leader of his fan club and

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vice versa but both of them pound the

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table on simplistic fee only planning

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and i think that's very very important i

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mean she has been in front of congress

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and the house subcommittee on financial

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services

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she has authored and co-authored several

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uh you know books and done magazine

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columns i mean you're going to know who

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she is

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because you're going oh wait a minute i

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read something with her she's been in

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everything and she's written books like

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garrett's guide to financial planning

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just give me the answers the last s is a

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dollar sign money without matrimony

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personal finance workbook for dummies

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um etc we could keep going on but

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cheryl garrett is

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the mean even president obama recognized

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her as just just for the things that

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she's done

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in this country and she continues to

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give

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we're going to go into that but without

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further ado

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rockstar cheryl garrett welcome to

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fun with annuities

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well i'm delighted to be here but i'm

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like completely humbled

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i mean

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you're like who's this other person no i

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mean you've accomplished a lot in the

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world of financial advice where

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is it more bad than good yeah it's easy

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to stand out among girls

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i guess right i guess you're right about

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that

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tell me let's go back to 1999 going into

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2000

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and you're thinking yourself you know

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what

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pioneers take all the arrows why don't i

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start a planning network

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yeah take us through that

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um it wasn't any any thought along those

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lines

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well

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not quite a little bit of my brain went

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there but most of it it was

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i was out there

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employed by myself

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saying i can serve my clients the best

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way

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that i feel they need to be taken care

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of i have the freedom and liberty to go

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wherever and and access whatever it is

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that they need and i charge for my time

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i don't charge for assets i don't charge

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by their body weight mass index or any

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other

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squirrely kind of measurement but just

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for my time

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um and it seemed quite simplistic

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and i was finding out that i was getting

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a lot of attention within our industry

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because i was doing something so

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abnormal as to not manage money and not

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sell products

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um and i still got paid for the time

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that i was spending

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and so you know

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it all basically boils down to what do

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you have i mean we all make money but we

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all make money in different ways and as

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a general practitioner financial planner

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type of person

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i would talk to people about all

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different kinds of subjects from

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you know can we afford to relocate if we

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did should we add that room

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um you know how should i take a

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distribution i mean

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investments insurance

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i mean

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that may be part of it but a lot of it

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is cash flow a lot of its dreams and

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ambitions and fears and

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um you know how can we cope with the

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mother-in-law moving in and um you know

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there's a lot of

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personal financial economic

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um psychological things that are coming

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together all at once and i see the the

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generalist

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planners role as to kind of help clients

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see

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through all of that and and reach out to

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the appropriate specialists when they

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need certain products or services

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fulfilled for the clients

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um and so i started

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deciding to

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you know i was going to offer this

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service to individuals

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selling my time

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and i was actually at the point where i

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didn't know whether they would sit down

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for a meeting

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but uh um within a couple of years it

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became such a beloved service in my city

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of kansas city at the time

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that

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i had to stop taking new clients um you

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know within two years that's how

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simply by charging for my time

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and finding that there's awful lot of

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people that need advice and um you know

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need to bounce off ideas or

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i've just been offered something you

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know can i take advantage of it how will

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it fit in and that kind of thing and so

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um it just provided that

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unique

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way of access

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and i got contacted by a whole lot of

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advisors around the country and they

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said i want to do what you're doing

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and i didn't know whether we would have

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a dozen study buddies around the country

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that help support each other to

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you know be able to serve our clients

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without going insane

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or if we would turn into

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you know a multi-thousand member

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well kind of the fee only equivalent to

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a broker dealer

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as one of my early

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colleagues had suggested that we do and

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i said well

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um

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you know i'm a lot more about

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flexibility and and the practitioner the

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professionals personal judgment

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um because they're the ones on the hook

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i don't want to be dictating for people

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but i found out that there was a lot of

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people interested in this and and

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aligning yourself with like-minded peers

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regardless of the industry that you're

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in

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is usually a dang good thing um and the

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fact that we can help support each other

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there's an immense amount of opportunity

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to help people out there

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and we just like you had found out in

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your discussions with rick ferry by

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charging for your time

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there's no barrier to entry other than

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you know how much how much time do i

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need to spend with you um and are you

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willing to pay for that and if so we can

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get going so

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um it's pretty clear transparent and it

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applies

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to the areas of personal finance that

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most of the time advisors don't get paid

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to focus on

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and often that's where we do need to

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spend some serious time

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in addition to

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traditionally paid um

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areas

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so i like the ability to be truly

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holistic and go where the client needs

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me to go

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we're talking to cheryl garrett and she

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is she has um

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created a firm called the garrett

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planning network

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and we're going to have the the a

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permanent page on our site for her so

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you can go to these links if you want to

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write it down as garrett

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g-a-r-r-e-t-t

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planning network all one word dot com

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and what it is is what she just

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described it's a in essence a

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it's not a broker dealer but it's it's

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it's a conglomeration of fee only

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advisors across the country that

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follow the same type of principles that

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cheryl initially laid out

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but i think what's interesting cheryl is

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i come from the broker dealer world of

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dean wood or payne weber or morgan

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stanley ubs where

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we transitioned from transactional i was

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there during the transactional years too

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then it's fee

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fee based where it's based on an asset

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under management but what i think is

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fantastic

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is what's happening right now and you're

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the you're the pioneer of this which is

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it's not about the assets under

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management you know and you you hear the

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advertising on tv without mentioning

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names that you know we're sitting on

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your side of the table you know when

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when you're

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when your portfolio goes up we get paid

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more etc

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they also get paid when it goes down

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okay yeah

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so i'm not putting them down i'm not

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going to call them out they do enough

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advertising we know who they are

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but i

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do you see this as a trend that keeps

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growing because obviously it runs

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contrary to the brokered dealer

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fee on fee based on assets under

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management model

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i definitely see it growing

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from the public perspective

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the industry isn't really interested

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those providers

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um you know advisors out there there's

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it's more lucrative

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to work with a very wealthy client um

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managing everything

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and some of it doesn't take a heck of a

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lot of management right but

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those individuals may be able to justify

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paying a substantial sum for your

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attention

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most americans or most humans don't

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qualify for that level of

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expenditure

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i'm trying to pick good words that would

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be that was nice

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you know it's kind of like we could hire

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a nanny a living nanny to take care of

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our children

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or

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we could get a really great babysitter

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and

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you know that's a really good

11:11
correlation that's

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on what you need and how much you want

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to pay and can pay

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we still want great care for our

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children

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you know it's just do you need an

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occasional

11:25
help or do you need somebody to live in

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and take care of everything and i i

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would like people to look at it that way

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because a whole bunch of you are paying

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for it

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the full-time attention and care and

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you're not really getting much for it

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and that's because there's not much to

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get

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um you know i think a regular review of

11:46
your personal finances and

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all aspects is appropriate what's

11:51
regular that's going to depend on your

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situation and what's going on in your

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life with most people i find that cash

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flow

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happens

12:00
time or hopefully happens but is it

12:03
happening where it's going out more than

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it's going in

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um and then we have these other things

12:08
like you know our underlying insurance

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which i was having a pretty significant

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conversation um last evening

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with the family member regarding um

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property and casualty insurance costs

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and my concern and actually it's

12:25
unraveling and i mean maybe not quite

12:27
unraveling but almost in florida

12:30
um and people that live in

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um

12:34
really frequently storm hit areas

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i live in tornado alley

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and

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right now

12:41
or at least in the last approximately

12:43
year and i'm sure it's going to continue

12:46
is

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roofs in florida

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if you don't have a new roof

12:52
you might lose your insurance carrier

12:55
and these are the types of things that

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someone with a holistic approach to

12:59
financial planning and advice tries to

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think about um you know for their

13:04
clients whereas

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you know

13:07
if i were

13:08
a stockbroker or a money manager or a an

13:12
annuity provider you know i'd be

13:13
focusing on those areas and so that's

13:16
one of the reasons why i'm a big fan of

13:18
hourly or time-based advice

13:21
for the big picture stuff and then going

13:23
to the

13:24
independent specialists

13:27
for the specific things because

13:30
just to think about

13:32
what could happen and look at our wrists

13:34
and one area that i'm um

13:37
probably

13:39
i tend to be early

13:41
about everything yeah obviously yeah

13:43
you're way early on this one that's an

13:45
understatement yeah um i do tend to be a

13:48
bit early to things maybe 20 or 30 years

13:51
like you know i think it was probably 30

13:54
or 35 years ago i called for um

13:58
blockbuster video to go out of business

14:00
because of streaming video sure i was

14:03
just a few decades early

14:07
maybe a couple um but i really see that

14:11
you know

14:11
everybody has questions about their

14:13
personal finances and i do i do have to

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agree our industry hasn't done anything

14:18
to make it easier and thank goodness for

14:21
you stan to be out there putting some

14:23
bits of clarity and and wisdom

14:26
and help clear the muck for people which

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is also something i try to do in my area

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because there's there's so much garbage

14:34
and

14:35
and a lot of just plain confusion

14:38
um and

14:40
how we're motivated you know the

14:42
influences that we may get

14:44
some of the work that i've done

14:46
with my certified financial planning

14:49
background

14:50
i got into

14:52
actually we may have talked about this

14:54
at one time but um i think your audience

14:56
would enjoy it i was being interviewed

14:59
by the wall street journal one time

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and i said that i felt most americans

15:05
would be best suited to take their

15:08
monthly pension payout

15:11
from their pension plan upon retirement

15:14
and i received a telephone call from an

15:17
attorney in cal and me being in in

15:19
kansas in the on the kansas city area

15:22
on the kansas side and i got a call from

15:24
sacramento california

15:26
a couple days later

15:28
an attorney from there was working on a

15:31
series of lawsuits

15:34
where

15:35
advisors encouraged

15:38
individuals that were retiring or had

15:41
early retirement available or optioned

15:44
through their employer

15:46
that advisor urged these people to take

15:49
early retirement invest the money with

15:51
her and unfortunately it did not go well

15:53
and 11 months 11 years later most of

15:57
these individuals were broke

15:59
um and they were in their late 40s early

16:03
50s when they made this decision to

16:05
retire

16:06
and to me that if anybody told somebody

16:09
you can afford to retire under those

16:11
circumstances

16:12
with just the information that this

16:15
individual had it was criminal and

16:18
it really disturbed me and and i got

16:19
involved with a series of cases and

16:23
it was all based on that one concept of

16:28
when the attorney called me said you

16:30
know why or what did you say and i said

16:35
that most people would be best served to

16:37
take their monthly pension

16:39
or the monthly stream of income

16:42
so they don't have to worry about

16:43
investing they don't have to worry

16:45
whether

16:45
it'll come every month

16:47
and he's like you

16:50
are unlike any financial advisor

16:53
financial planner i have ever met and i

16:55
said well

16:56
it might be because i didn't don't get

16:58
paid differently depending on the answer

17:02
every financial i'm telling the the

17:05
attorney every financial advisor for the

17:07
most part well okay let me read phrase

17:10
everyone

17:12
um

17:14
if they they need to get their hands on

17:16
that lump sum sure

17:19
and so

17:20
hence the reason i actually worked with

17:22
um or spoke with the

17:25
department of education and department

17:27
of labor a few times

17:28
um on you know the fact that pensions

17:32
are getting busted i mean people aren't

17:34
choosing to keep their pension intact um

17:37
upon retirement and take just monthly

17:39
distributions instead um they're rolling

17:43
the lump sum over to an ira and

17:46
i said it's not

17:48
it's not that the retirees or um

17:53
participants are necessarily choosing to

17:55
do that it's that they've heard some

17:58
presentation or had some education in

18:01
their workplace and um you know there's

18:04
also that underlying thing of oh you

18:07
know if i don't spend it all it's going

18:09
to go back to my company

18:11
if i die with money in the account well

18:14
there is

18:15
that component potentially a it doesn't

18:17
go back to your company um that depends

18:20
on how you structure it obviously yeah

18:22
they go back to the plan but it doesn't

18:24
it doesn't go back to the you know

18:26
parent company or something

18:28
um but a lot of people are misled

18:31
sure because of of the conflicts that

18:36
many of us have and

18:38
as i was talking to my 11 year old

18:40
daughter the other day

18:43
and we were watching a program that had

18:45
a lot of pharmaceutical ads on it and i

18:48
said

18:49
i think it's just silly

18:51
that these companies are advertising to

18:54
us because we as individual citizens

18:56
cannot go out and purchase their

18:58
products

19:02
so there's millions of dollars

19:05
trying to get me to buy

19:07
that yellow pill or that blue pill or

19:10
the purple one and i don't even know

19:11
what they're for but you know those

19:13
people look so healthy and robust i want

19:15
some of that

19:16
and unfortunately financial services

19:18
commercials look about the same and they

19:21
all sound about the same and so it's

19:23
really difficult to know

19:25
you know who's really on your side

19:28
you know who

19:30
is on the same side of the table who's

19:32
actually

19:33
looking about the quality of life type

19:35
of matters not just

19:37
are you getting okay return on your

19:40
portfolio

19:41
you know if you don't have a roof

19:45
or you end up with an extra five or six

19:47
thousand dollar insurance premium bill

19:51
for a year

19:53
because you didn't know to even think

19:55
about those kind of issues that's that's

19:57
one of the things that

20:00
um

20:01
financial planner gets to focus on is

20:03
those broad subjects so the idea of

20:07
coming together in 2000 to form the

20:10
garrett planning network

20:12
enabled me as this island out there

20:15
going i'm trying to help people

20:18
but i'm only as knowledgeable as what

20:20
i've been exposed to

20:22
and then you get together with a lot of

20:25
peers and you start sharing stories and

20:27
challenges and you say you know if you

20:29
have this situation how would you

20:30
approach it

20:32
and you start

20:34
getting better because the power of the

20:37
the global mind

20:38
to solve problems and approach solutions

20:41
it's just it's just very very uh

20:44
powerful and the types of people we tend

20:47
to attract to our membership or

20:49
our

20:50
good old-fashioned um you know

20:53
high integrity they obviously didn't get

20:56
in the business to make the most amount

20:58
of money the fastest or they wouldn't be

21:00
selling their time right um you know

21:02
they'd have to sell it for thousands of

21:04
dollars an hour so um nobody will pay

21:06
that so there's still

21:08
the um

21:10
humans

21:11
so we still recognize the value of a

21:13
dollar when somebody's saying okay

21:15
that's going to cost you a thousand

21:16
dollars

21:18
to have me do that

21:20
whereas somebody else might say i'll

21:22
take care of that for you

21:24
and off of that nest egg they will pull

21:27
a thousand dollars and you won't feel it

21:30
um you may not even really know it i

21:32
know when i have

21:34
drafts coming out of my bank account

21:37
it's you know out of mind outside i

21:39
don't really feel the pain but when i

21:42
have cash in my hand and and i have to

21:44
go you know decide whether i really want

21:46
to part with

21:48
it's hard to do

21:49
so i try not to to use electronics to

21:52
transfer money or spend money and you

21:54
know those are just the little tricks

21:56
that i had to learn on on working with

21:58
myself and then we spread that to others

22:02
so and by by the way for everyone

22:03
listening you might have caught this

22:05
really nice bird in the background

22:07
that's singing cheryl's praises

22:10
in the background there's a bird back

22:11
there that's just just

22:14
very happy that cheryl's on this podcast

22:16
you can hear in the background that is

22:17
not planned that's i guess divine

22:19
financial planning intervention

22:22
which is pretty cool what i like about

22:24
your site cheryl is i was there and it's

22:25
you know how do you get started is how

22:27
do you choose an advisor it's very very

22:30
basic i love simplicity and you have

22:31
made it simple to where when you go to

22:34
the next page

22:35
you actually can get some tips from

22:37
cheryl but also gives you

22:39
interview questionnaires if you want to

22:41
go and meet with an advisor and how to

22:43
search for an advisor

22:45
i'm assuming that's in all pretty much

22:47
every single state but she makes it very

22:49
very simple for you to

22:52
to go find interview no obligation and

22:56
find that

22:57
that fee

22:59
only planner and i think that's

23:02
pretty cool i'm glad i'm glad you

23:04
brought that up stan it's been one of

23:08
the hottest topics that i've talked to

23:10
the media about for probably the last

23:14
three or four years is how to find an

23:16
advisor that's right for me

23:18
and it's sad that that happens to be a

23:21
topic that makes headlines but it's such

23:24
an important one it is it's it's

23:26
critical

23:27
to me i also look at it as you know

23:29
we've been trained to go get a second

23:31
opinion if we have a significant metal

23:34
medical

23:36
issue come up

23:38
but

23:40
why in the world do we not get a second

23:42
opinion if we're getting ready to

23:45
make a decision as as significant as

23:49
retirement

23:50
and

23:52
you know do we know that we're ready

23:54
financially are we ready

23:57
mentally maybe um you know hopefully we

23:59
feel that and we're enthusiastic about

24:01
it but i've met so many very educated

24:06
intelligent people

24:08
that

24:10
um

24:11
you know bless their hearts they didn't

24:14
i mean

24:15
someone like myself could look at the

24:17
nest egg and know it won't work

24:20
the amount of income that they needed to

24:23
live on and the size of their nest egg

24:26
you just don't have enough money

24:29
to support this standard of living so

24:31
what do you want to do

24:33
you can either cut your lifestyle

24:35
dramatically or you can raise your

24:37
income or some combination of the two

24:40
and so you know sometimes we

24:43
as americans i think may have it the

24:46
worst um as far as

24:50
there's a lot of

24:51
stimuli out there that gets our

24:53
attention and

24:56
dealing with our personal finances was

24:58
one of the things that even i like to

25:01
bury my head in the sand when it comes

25:02
to taxes

25:04
absolutely oh and sometimes insurance

25:06
um

25:07
you know

25:08
the these are not sexy topics they're

25:11
not interesting you don't go to the ball

25:13
game and say hey did you you want to

25:15
hear about my new insurance policy no

25:18
no

25:20
it sure feels great when you know you

25:23
have that moment when you had a

25:26
bad doctor checkup or you were fearing

25:28
one um or you have

25:31
that glimmer of of oh we just nearly had

25:34
an accident

25:35
and you know thank goodness i've got my

25:38
stuff together

25:40
you know that that if anything happened

25:42
to me i'm now a

25:43
soul parent my spouse passed away less

25:46
than a year ago

25:47
and all of a sudden i'm like i'm a

25:50
single parent

25:52
what happens if something happens to me

25:54
and i haven't updated that stuff yet

25:56
okay so cobbler's children here come on

25:59
planner it's time right yeah we have to

26:02
just we have to know what needs to be

26:04
done and we have to be able to get it

26:06
get it going so i feel that one of them

26:09
our highest

26:11
roles as a certified financial planner

26:14
is to be the catalyst to help people

26:18
get where they say they want to go

26:20
and help do it most efficiently my

26:23
apologies for interrupting but i am so

26:25
excited to share with the listeners

26:28
and i want you to go to our site but i'm

26:30
going to give it away a little bit

26:31
when you search for an advisor obviously

26:34
you're going to be able to search by the

26:36
state of residence

26:37
but what i really really like what

26:40
cheryl has done and put together with

26:41
her team

26:43
is you can select an option you can

26:44
select if you want to do a phone

26:46
consultation or web

26:49
if you're military if you're looking for

26:51
if you need questions about real estate

26:53
investing if you're a retiree

26:55
if you're special needs if you're

26:57
looking at stock options or restricted

26:59
stock taxation

27:01
unmarried widowers

27:04
retirement planning whether you're

27:05
violating it you need a specific

27:07
language long-term care

27:10
everything and as i scroll down

27:13
what i like about it is like

27:16
it's not just find your planner here's

27:18
the state here are the planners no no

27:21
what specifically do you want to talk

27:23
about insurance planning mortgage

27:24
planning health care federal employee

27:27
type planning expatriates estate

27:30
planning

27:31
helps to get us to really broaden our

27:34
thoughts about oh

27:36
oh yeah i wasn't thinking about that

27:40
yeah and i like that

27:43
that option because a lot of times

27:45
yes people need

27:47
feeling advisors yes people need a

27:49
broad-based look but most people come to

27:51
the table with a specific issue in mind

27:54
absolutely that they really really want

27:56
the answer to and then after that gets

27:59
done they can go okay

28:00
let's talk about the rest and i think

28:02
that is absolute genius and foresight on

28:05
your part to put that in there

28:08
from finding your advisors let's talk

28:10
about

28:11
when you go to the site obviously

28:12
there's that client portal about you

28:14
know how to choose your advisor etc but

28:17
at the very bottom under where it shows

28:19
that you've been

28:20
in you know bloomberg kiplinger usa

28:22
today yahoo aarp every single thing on

28:25
the planet and she deserves it

28:27
um financial planners join the network

28:30
i've got a feeling your filter is pretty

28:33
tough

28:34
tell us about how if some planner says

28:36
yeah this sounds like great i'm getting

28:38
for a lot of people how do you how do

28:40
you filter the yahoos out

28:42
to become

28:43
cheryl garrett disciples

28:46
well they have to sign an attestation

28:49
statement that kind of says i believe in

28:53
the same stuff that cheryl does and

28:56
and

28:56
i think we're this is our 22nd year of

28:59
existence wow and i think we've only had

29:02
one application where we had to call the

29:04
individual back and said that would say

29:06
we will not accept you

29:09
um

29:10
that you know

29:11
people people

29:12
do inquire that won't be a good fit but

29:16
we've never actually gotten a membership

29:18
application but one time that i recall

29:21
um there may have been a couple others

29:23
that you know there was some conflict um

29:26
such as

29:28
if someone has

29:29
um

29:31
disciplinary

29:32
um disclosures on in their record which

29:35
is not necessarily all that abnormal

29:39
um but on the para or the chapter in

29:43
on our website that talks about finding

29:45
an advisor

29:48
it's an excerpt from

29:50
the personal finance workbook for

29:52
dummies that i wrote and the publisher

29:55
gave me permission to excerpt that

29:57
chapter on finding an interviewing

29:59
advisor and one of the things i say in

30:02
there is don't hire anybody with any

30:04
disciplinary stuff on their record

30:06
and we tell would-be advisors that we

30:10
say that to the public because there's

30:11
plenty of people to pick that don't have

30:13
anything on the record

30:15
um now

30:17
there's some other

30:18
nuances to think about you know

30:21
if

30:22
you know if you worked for a giant

30:24
company

30:25
um a giant broker dealer there's gonna

30:27
be stuff on the on the disclosure but it

30:30
won't necessarily be about the specific

30:32
advisor

30:33
um but it'll be about the firm

30:36
but you know we can see we can work

30:38
through that kind of stuff but if

30:39
there's if there's disclosures about the

30:41
individual just keep looking

30:44
um life's

30:45
life's short there's there's lots of

30:47
advisors out there there's not very many

30:49
that charge for their time

30:51
um you know that's a shame

30:54
yeah that's and the reason that that

30:55
doesn't happen at the brokerage firms is

30:57
it's not because that the brokerage

30:59
firms believe in a

31:01
asset based fee only

31:02
fee base money it's not feeling fee

31:04
based on the asset asset under

31:06
management it's because it's a very easy

31:08
way for them to track future revenues

31:10
that's it don't believe anything else

31:12
that they tell you but that's it i'm on

31:14
your site also and i want to kind of

31:16
read some things to the and go over some

31:18
things for the listeners and viewers and

31:20
again you can go to garrett financial

31:22
planning

31:23
garrettplanningnetwork.com

31:24
garrettplanningnetwork.com

31:26
we'll have that link on our site as well

31:28
but but all of the members within the

31:31
garrett

31:32
planning network they're they're fee

31:34
only meaning that they are prohibited

31:37
from receiving commissions or any type

31:38
of compensation for the sale of a

31:41
product the the compensations paid

31:43
directly by the client all of the people

31:46
are fiduciaries i have a little bugaboo

31:49
about fiduciary i think if you're in the

31:50
financial

31:51
services business you i mean you have to

31:54
put the

31:55
person's best interest ahead of yours

31:57
but

31:58
her people are obligated both ethically

32:00
and legally

32:02
to do that by choice and right and by

32:05
choice not do it any other way i agree i

32:08
don't care what you're doing out here

32:10
the other thing i like about is every

32:12
one of her members of the garrett

32:14
planning network

32:15
has to be accessible and what that means

32:18
is

32:19
they they all charge based on the time

32:22
to provide advice

32:25
without requiring any type of long-term

32:26
commitments or minimums or net worth or

32:30
anything like that this is a pure

32:33
fee only service which i love i

32:37
absolutely love

32:39
and i encourage

32:40
you know my listeners and my client base

32:43
and the people that follow me

32:45
you know when i i always say not only do

32:48
you not need you might not even need an

32:50
annuity but if you need an annuity you

32:51
certainly don't need to put you know a

32:53
ton of money in annuities which means

32:55
what do you do with the rest so talking

32:57
about what do you do with the rest or

32:58
all of it you're we're we're here we're

33:01
at the fork in the road so pick it up

33:04
and

33:05
and there are people

33:07
that can help you in this pure financial

33:11
planning

33:12
fashion i think this is the purest form

33:14
of financial advice

33:16
out there and i applaud you

33:19
for for plowing this field because i'm

33:21
sure when you started people were like

33:23
what what are you doing

33:25
a lot of people in the industry are like

33:28
you know putting their arm around me

33:29
going i realize you're young and you're

33:31
new

33:33
i look like a kid at 60 thank you um but

33:37
uh

33:38
um

33:39
yeah

33:40
naivete is helpful and i had a very

33:43
positive outlook and i grew up in kansas

33:46
and

33:47
you know i was raised that a girl can do

33:49
anything she sets her mind to so i was

33:52
never told i couldn't do it and when i

33:54
was when i i had i had spent um 11 years

33:58
in in the financial planning arena okay

34:01
before i landed upon charging by the

34:04
hour

34:05
and it was about that epiphany what was

34:07
that

34:08
it actually was um i was sharing this

34:12
desire with a

34:14
um an elder care

34:16
estate planning attorney

34:18
and

34:20
he said that sounds a lot like the

34:23
national network of uh estate planning

34:26
attorneys and we started talking and and

34:29
i talked to him about the fact that you

34:31
know basically by charging by the hour

34:33
it's more like how he charged his

34:35
clients

34:36
for um you know consulting with them

34:38
about an elder care issue or designing

34:41
an estate plan he might charge you know

34:43
a certain amount of hours for that

34:45
project and and just you know by the

34:48
hour for the elder care stuff

34:51
and i said you know a i want to charge

34:54
that way and um you know i

34:57
also

34:59
have others that want to do this and you

35:01
know i think we need to

35:03
instead of being part of a large company

35:06
where you have to pay for the overhead

35:08
and the managers and you know the

35:10
bureaucracy and does it add anything to

35:13
the bottom line having your own research

35:15
department having

35:17
your own mutual funds or own products or

35:20
whatever is that necessary or are there

35:23
other places you can get it and

35:25
at that time you can get that stuff

35:28
elsewhere you know there are lots of

35:30
mutual fund companies that are available

35:33
for us to go directly to them a lot of

35:36
insurance companies we can work with

35:38
directly or we go to specialized

35:40
participants that are experts in those

35:44
and so

35:44
you know to simply be able to you know

35:47
work on what somebody needs us to focus

35:49
on yeah one project that i did that

35:52
helps to

35:53
um

35:54
to illustrate the power or the you know

35:57
the uniqueness of financial planning

35:59
over investment advice

36:01
um was

36:04
a couple came to me

36:06
that um

36:08
they were in their 50s and they wanted

36:10
to

36:12
see if they could take advantage of a

36:13
job offer

36:15
they were living in kansas city both

36:17
employed

36:18
and she had been offered a position in

36:20
boston

36:23
cost of living significantly higher cost

36:26
of or or the uh wages also considerably

36:29
higher

36:30
however

36:32
the husband lived or had a very unique

36:35
uh specialized kind of field that he was

36:37
in and they didn't anticipate he would

36:39
be able to find a like position as

36:42
quickly like it could take a couple of

36:44
years maybe

36:45
um and we wanted to be really

36:47
conservative about his income potential

36:51
since actually in this case hers was the

36:54
biggest component of the overall um it

36:57
was pretty easy to illustrate so the

36:59
couple came in not knowing you know they

37:02
were enthused by the offer but they

37:04
didn't know if it would derail their

37:06
long-term um you know if we if we took

37:10
they came to me and they said if we take

37:11
this or if we do this

37:13
would it just completely decimate our

37:15
plans for 10 years from now i mean would

37:17
this be a stupid financial decision

37:20
and so we spent like two and a half

37:22
hours figuring it out and

37:24
we're able to answer that with some

37:26
clarity that they could consciously

37:29
um feel very confident about what they

37:31
decide before it was just gut instinct

37:34
and and that freed them up to oh okay

37:37
now can can we look at this next thing

37:40
and can we look at this next thing so

37:42
they needed an opportunity to get to

37:44
know somebody

37:46
develop some trust and working

37:48
relationship and understanding how you

37:50
talk to each other and um and then they

37:53
found out what it was like you know to

37:55
work with a financial planner on their

37:58
side and and it was oh this is so

38:01
different than anything either for ever

38:04
imagined or experienced

38:07
so i heard that mostly from all of my

38:10
clients that i was seeing in kansas city

38:12
as an hourly advisor

38:14
most of them had not been to an advisor

38:16
ever

38:18
or they hadn't been to somebody they

38:20
referred to as their advisor they might

38:23
have visited with someone

38:25
but they didn't choose to call them an

38:27
advisor even if they worked with them at

38:29
some point

38:30
or did business well the interesting

38:32
part about the financial planning world

38:34
is anyone can truly call themselves a

38:36
financial planner there's no minimum

38:38
experience and you don't need an

38:39
education background etc even though

38:41
there's some

38:42
places like texas tech that have that

38:45
have actual degrees of master's degrees

38:47
and and um you know i'm i'm assuming

38:50
they know they certainly know you and

38:51
you've talked with them uh dina katz and

38:54
everybody but um but when you work with

38:56
with cheryl's organization you know the

38:59
garrett the garrett planning network

39:01
you can rest assured that that person

39:05
um is going to be working in your best

39:07
interest and i think that's really all

39:08
people are looking for they don't they

39:10
know you're not

39:12
a magician

39:13
but they they want to know that they can

39:16
have a conversation with the person that

39:18
there's that that's going to use their

39:20
their as i always say the best advisors

39:22
use their mouth and their ears in

39:24
proportion

39:27
and um and it sounds like that's that's

39:30
kind of what you guys do

39:32
i got a couple questions for you because

39:34
you piqued my interest when you talked

39:35
about predictions and i'm not going to

39:38
hold you at any of this

39:39
but since you are somewhat of a

39:41
visionary in the financial field but

39:43
remember i'm always early everyone i

39:45
understand but that's good um

39:48
we're there's always things happening in

39:50
the world and every time that we feel

39:52
like there's a bunch of black swan

39:54
events there's a lot always been black

39:55
swan events and things that are

39:57
happening

39:58
but where do you see

40:00
things going from a financial planning

40:02
standpoint how people manage money we

40:05
see the the um the birthing of things

40:08
like robin hood and applications to try

40:11
to get people involved at a younger age

40:12
at a very low level which i on surface i

40:16
see no problems with that

40:18
where is this all headed because i we're

40:20
both kind of the same age so we saw it

40:23
go from transactional to then assets

40:25
under management fee

40:27
to then schwab td ameritrade fidelity

40:30
vanguard to now i think the maturation

40:33
of what you're doing finally i mean

40:36
you're a 20-year overnight sensation as

40:38
they say

40:39
um

40:40
you know the fee only model and and just

40:43
charging for time which i think is so

40:45
good

40:46
what's next

40:47
cheryl

40:49
um what next needs to be we need a heck

40:52
of a lot more of us

40:54
um okay i i computed um

40:59
in

41:00
late 90s

41:02
that we would need about i if i'm

41:04
recalling right we need something like

41:07
300 000 advisors just to

41:10
approach two percent

41:12
of the population um

41:15
so there's an enormous opportunity in

41:18
providing advice by the hour it's still

41:20
rare it's because the work is on the

41:22
advisor to keep track of their time and

41:24
justify you know i spent x amount of

41:28
time on this and hopefully it's

41:30
meaningful to you

41:32
um but it it it is harder um but it

41:36
should be

41:37
you know if we're going to charge a nice

41:39
hefty fee

41:41
um and provide good value to people

41:44
you know

41:45
it can't be easy but it's so rewarding

41:48
you know most americans don't realize

41:50
that there are options to hire an

41:52
advisor in pain for their time only

41:56
that's one of the huge areas

41:58
the second area is if they do contact us

42:02
will they be able to find an advisor

42:04
that's available soon in their area and

42:07
so it's kind of catch-22

42:09
because um

42:11
the advisory public and the consuming

42:13
public consumers of advice you know kind

42:15
of have to grow together

42:17
and we've seen a little bit of that but

42:19
there's far more acceptance and desire

42:23
in the

42:24
consumer of advice category than there

42:27
are in the providers thus far but it's

42:30
changing and i think it's changing very

42:32
rapidly when i talk to

42:34
college campuses and talk to some of the

42:37
newer

42:38
folks coming out of college they want to

42:40
do something

42:42
unique different and in a way that their

42:45
actual friends and classmates could hire

42:48
them and fulfill

42:50
and fulfilling and fulfilling

42:52
the people people like you are

42:54
passionate

42:55
and i think it runs contrary to the

42:57
financial services business of getting

43:00
the financial services business go to

43:01
wall street make as much money as

43:03
humanly possible i used to work in world

43:04
trade center too a long time ago and so

43:07
i i was in that culture of go go go make

43:10
as much money as humanly possible but i

43:11
think that fortunately the younger

43:13
generation i'm speaking for my daughters

43:16
they're not into that and they're more

43:18
into it being

43:20
fulfilling what they're doing and it

43:21
feels good and it's right and they're

43:23
doing good things

43:25
for the world i think there's a

43:26
possibility that the new group of

43:28
advisors

43:30
that this will be what they know whereas

43:32
people like me and you that were in the

43:35
business a long time ago we've kind of

43:36
seen it all

43:37
you know i

43:39
i was i was around you'll love this

43:40
story with dean witter when the uh the

43:43
guy came in and the vice president and

43:45
talked to all those advisors and wealth

43:47
architects whatever they were calling us

43:49
and said i really don't see a threat

43:50
with like on online trading and things

43:53
like that i'm like you're the dumbest

43:54
person on the planet

43:57
so

43:58
um you know

44:00
it's kind of like the ibm executive a

44:02
long time ago saying he didn't see

44:04
the need for a personal computer and huh

44:07
and you're like okay

44:09
so going back to my original um

44:12
outside the box just a little bit not

44:14
just in the planning world

44:16
um

44:17
tell us about your your insights and

44:20
foresight into money the way money works

44:24
going into the future and that might

44:26
throw in crypto and all kinds of new and

44:28
weird stuff that's happening

44:31
how are you advising clients on those

44:33
type of things

44:35
well i don't advise individual clients

44:37
but but i'm just saying

44:39
they're my clients yeah

44:41
um

44:42
there's a few areas that i'm really uh

44:45
focusing on of late and that is i mean

44:50
one of the areas that we've

44:52
long been focusing on is controlling

44:54
what you can control

44:56
uh you know when you take taxes or

44:59
taxable gains um how much you pay in

45:02
fees

45:06
when you receive income or when you

45:08
choose to make an expenditure

45:12
we as a society i don't think we've

45:15
necessarily taken on or owned as much of

45:19
our responsibility for

45:20
you know making those decisions and and

45:22
knowing that we have control over those

45:24
things

45:26
maybe not full control but we do choose

45:29
um and now we're learning that there's a

45:31
heck of a lot more

45:33
that we can

45:34
influence um

45:37
need to be a lot more aggressive a lot

45:40
most of us i'm generalizing um about our

45:43
cash flow um and we need to be a lot

45:46
more aggressive

45:48
about i mean and i when i say aggressive

45:50
about our cash flow we need to really be

45:52
conscious

45:53
of where our money's going and

45:56
where it's coming from where it will in

45:58
the future and think of things like is

46:01
there anything i could do to create a

46:04
form of income

46:06
such as

46:08
the property for sale or there's a

46:10
property for sale next door and it has a

46:13
rundown house on it that i want to fix

46:15
up that's actually a true story

46:18
okay

46:19
and then the house i'm setting in we

46:21
built um right after that and so i have

46:24
a rental house next door

46:27
because it happened to be sitting on the

46:29
land that was surrounding

46:31
our log cabin resort

46:34
and

46:34
it would make sense for us to secure

46:37
that and it was

46:38
a very very good price

46:41
and now

46:42
um i have someone living in the house

46:45
and their the rent that they pay

46:48
pays the mortgage on the piece of land

46:50
that i wanted to buy

46:52
and you know so i basically got it for

46:54
free um there you go and

46:57
you know helping

46:58
families or young couples in

47:01
caring for a family member

47:03
um or setting up an income suite in

47:06
their you know out of part of their

47:08
house um to

47:10
make it go you know their housing go

47:12
further

47:14
with

47:15
another lady she she either needed to

47:18
rent out her basement

47:20
or

47:22
significantly

47:24
downsize her lifestyle

47:27
and

47:28
i was i had been acquainted with some

47:31
people with the our

47:33
county's department on aging

47:36
and they have a wonderful program where

47:38
they match up um older people

47:42
with younger people students um

47:45
and or other older people

47:47
to see you know if they could

47:49
co-habitate um in a prosperous way for

47:54
the two of them and one of my clients

47:56
children introduced her to the project

47:59
then she got into it and

48:01
um this client acted i

48:04
i've learned so much from my clients

48:06
about planning and planning strategies

48:09
this was all brought to me by a client

48:12
um which she learned it from her 22 year

48:14
old

48:15
um the 22 year old moved in

48:18
while she was going to college she moved

48:19
in with an elderly person who needed um

48:22
care at night

48:23
they only needed somebody to be there um

48:26
to help make sure that they were okay

48:28
um it really wasn't a a care you know a

48:31
nursing type of position or anything

48:33
like that it was just housing

48:36
and you just have to stay here every

48:37
night

48:39
and you know make sure i took my meds

48:41
and that kind of thing

48:42
well this woman ended up the the mother

48:45
ended up doing the same thing

48:47
she didn't own a vehicle she drove a

48:50
company

48:50
she was a repair person

48:52
worked for a large company and she drove

48:55
a company vehicle

48:57
lived in an elderly man's home that she

48:59
cared for for 12 years at the time of

49:01
this story

49:02
and she by the time she was in her

49:04
mid-40s she had nearly a half a million

49:07
dollars in her 401k plan and she never

49:09
made over 45 000 a year wow because she

49:15
found her community that would enable

49:18
her to have more life with less money

49:21
um and

49:22
she she loved her activities and and the

49:25
freedoms that those kinds of things

49:26
bring and so learning

49:28
strategies that will help in that way so

49:31
increasing income that's one of the

49:32
first areas that i go to and see if

49:34
there's any way

49:35
and it might be different ways but right

49:38
now with such a housing shortage or a

49:41
low

49:42
lower income lower priced

49:44
rental properties or or for sale

49:46
properties

49:48
having a additional dwelling unit or

49:51
something like that on your on your you

49:53
know in your yard or on your property

49:57
potentially even investing in some of

49:59
these projects so i've explored some of

50:01
those

50:02
um

50:04
you know really be

50:05
cut throat about our expenses and think

50:08
about

50:09
um

50:10
you know i'm a a strong believer in

50:13
experiences

50:15
over things uh as far as lasting

50:18
meaningful memories

50:20
and so many of the things you know we

50:24
are americans have more things than

50:26
anybody else in history

50:28
and um

50:30
you know to take on a little bit of a

50:32
minimalist um idea and start to purge

50:36
and you know maybe it's even you know

50:39
it's somewhere between how do we get rid

50:40
of all this stuff or how do we

50:43
maybe sell it and bring in a little

50:45
income um

50:46
and

50:48
then the whole area of

50:51
sustainable

50:53
lifestyles

50:55
kind of like

50:57
sustainable agriculture

51:00
or

51:00
our

51:04
you know where we we have um

51:07
a uh

51:09
a sustainable garden

51:11
that everything is you know like my my

51:14
uh front yard is a mini orchard and

51:18
everything is perennial

51:20
um so once once it's planted and

51:22
established it takes minimal care

51:26
that's what i like to accomplish in

51:29
someone's financial life is

51:32
you know get all of the the things set

51:35
up

51:36
that once they're set up a little

51:38
minimal care will keep them in order

51:41
but gosh

51:42
if one of the things we're concerned

51:44
about is

51:47
independence

51:49
i argue that

51:51
you can't achieve financial independence

51:54
with just money

51:56
i mean maybe that's the literal

51:57
definition but

51:59
the money has to be turned into other

52:01
things you have to buy health care you

52:03
have to buy food you have to buy

52:05
utilities

52:07
but what if you're generating your own

52:09
utility your own electricity

52:13
and you have the ability to store it

52:16
what if you're generating a good amount

52:17
of your own food

52:19
or at least in my case fruit

52:23
we have a lot of local gardeners and a

52:25
lot of um

52:26
um you know growers in in the area and

52:30
so i don't feel really motivated that in

52:32
that regard but to be independent

52:36
to a large degree in the food area i'm

52:39
also vegetarian so that makes it easy

52:42
the chickens are coming this summer

52:45
um guinea fowl and

52:48
so you know

52:50
i

52:51
i have a

52:54
water

52:56
energy

52:57
um

52:59
and uh so it's lifestyle i mean you know

53:01
you tell people security in the

53:03
lifestyle you know the sustainability of

53:06
it i always tell my clients

53:09
my clients i tell them excuse me i say

53:10
listen there's no u-hauls behind

53:13
right and you need to you need to live

53:16
your life a lot of my things are

53:17
southernisms you know

53:19
um but i agree with you totally i am

53:22
coming up on the on the end of the

53:25
end of the segment here and i wanted to

53:27
cover a couple items and then turn it

53:29
back to you one last time

53:31
um

53:31
first thing is that i was thinking about

53:34
this network that you put together and i

53:36
think if you hired someone within the

53:38
garrett planning network an advisor

53:41
fee only

53:43
there's an added benefit that i don't

53:44
think cheryl promotes enough and i think

53:46
that added benefit is

53:48
yes you're going to get an advisor

53:50
locally that's fee only and yes they're

53:51
going to be fiduciary and yes they're

53:53
going to have your best interest

53:54
at hand but you're also hiring the other

53:57
people in the network because

54:00
they have annual retreats and they have

54:02
conferences and they share best

54:04
practices and they share stories and

54:05
they share ideas

54:07
so in essence you're leveraging off of

54:09
what cheryl's built with your one

54:11
advisor

54:12
so i think that is

54:14
unbelievable yes there are some great

54:16
advisors out there but nobody has

54:19
we don't know at all

54:21
they really don't they really thank you

54:24
for that stan i i haven't

54:26
haven't really spoken to it from the

54:28
client's perspective i think of it more

54:30
from the advisor's perspective

54:32
how luxurious is it to

54:35
have a

54:36
situation um come up and you can turn to

54:40
your colleagues and say okay guys here's

54:42
what i've got going on yes what would

54:44
you do yes um and you can get all kind

54:47
and in fact i've done that in a bunch of

54:49
times we're adding we're adding a page

54:51
to your website okay i mean honestly

54:54
it's called the

54:55
leveraging the brains

54:58
the brain power something like that but

55:00
i think that's also a hidden um

55:02
benefit to this obviously you're you're

55:05
you're getting advice in this purest

55:07
form one last thing and i and i have to

55:10
share one other thing with you stan go

55:11
ahead um there's a new well it's not new

55:15
um but something that was that happened

55:17
after i stopped working with individual

55:19
clients

55:20
that if i was going back to work with

55:22
individual clients i'd be doing this all

55:24
the time and it's something we call real

55:26
time planning

55:28
where

55:29
often on you know we may talk on over

55:31
the phone for a brief while and then we

55:32
get together and it can be done remotely

55:35
as well

55:36
um but we have a real-time planning

55:38
session and for like two hours we just

55:40
roll up our sleeves and work together

55:42
and at the end of that time i'll follow

55:45
up with a report saying you know a

55:46
report that's like one page

55:49
you know this is what we need to you

55:52
need to do and and this is what you

55:54
decided and so forth and so

55:55
there's an um a noticeable um

55:59
you know instant gratification from

56:02
working with an advisor i mean you you

56:04
don't have to wait for advice to be

56:07
prepared and you know that there you can

56:10
get direction immediately on certain

56:12
things a lot of us don't do that for

56:14
investment portfolios we might do you

56:17
know general guidance

56:19
at that kind of level but if you're

56:21
looking about a decision regarding

56:24
relocating

56:26
life change

56:28
just getting started in a relationship

56:30
or just getting started with a planner

56:32
that can be a great way to do it because

56:34
you know the total cost you know it's

56:36
usually

56:37
say five to seven hundred dollars

56:40
um

56:40
and

56:41
you know you get a chance for a limited

56:43
amount of money to really you know how

56:46
to get organized have your questions

56:48
ready they'll send you a questionnaire

56:51
of some sort um to lay out your stuff so

56:54
you can think about your your financial

56:57
life and and really be ready to use that

56:59
time with that advisor

57:01
as as well as possible

57:03
and it's it's thoroughly

57:06
it's a mind-blowing thing we we've um

57:09
our group has has led training through

57:12
this and i had had a number of advisors

57:15
providing hourly advice for a long time

57:17
and then they went through this level of

57:19
training and they said it is

57:22
mind-blowing

57:23
what you can accomplish in 90 minutes if

57:26
you have to well and also too when

57:28
people know that they're not going to

57:29
get sold a product they're going to get

57:31
listened to and they're going to get

57:33
good advice yeah when i when i got into

57:36
the business i started with ids which is

57:38
now americanized yeah and where a lot of

57:41
us started and

57:43
people wouldn't even tell me that they

57:45
had a cd coming due next year sure

57:48
whereas

57:50
i went fiona and people came in and they

57:52
just dumped all their

57:54
original statements

57:56
on our desks and said i'll see you later

57:59
and it's like hold it now that's an

58:01
extreme the other direction

58:03
i remember they used to tell us when we

58:04
were first starting out i was with dean

58:06
wood like don't believe that they're

58:08
telling you everything that they have

58:10
and they kept saying that every place i

58:12
went they'd say that i'm like and in

58:13
this situation they do

58:15
my apologies for interrupting earlier

58:17
but i'm dying to hear this because

58:19
um with every one of my guests i i have

58:22
something at the end that i don't tell

58:24
them about that there oh yep this is

58:26
like

58:27
it's just uh this is one of those things

58:29
that you had to be prepared for you

58:31
almost have already done it and what i

58:33
call is the mic drop moment and you get

58:36
30 seconds when i say go to give really

58:39
sage advice in 30 seconds like a

58:41
elevator speech but you gave yeah i

58:43
think you've already done it you said

58:45
financial independence doesn't require

58:47
doesn't revolve around your money

58:49
and i was like well there you know

58:50
that's actually a mike trump moment but

58:53
because

58:54
you know you're who you are cheryl

58:56
garrett pioneers take all the arrows

58:59
visionary in the financial planning

59:01
world

59:01
all right here comes the mic drop moment

59:04
go

59:07
[Music]

59:11
the future is going to be dictated by

59:14
the receivers

59:16
as it should have been

59:19
those of us who get

59:21
stuff need stuff

59:23
are we going to speak up and ask for it

59:26
how we want it

59:28
we want clear transparent and immediate

59:31
if possible

59:33
and sometimes immediate it's

59:35
unreasonable

59:36
but there's no reason we can't have

59:39
clear

59:40
and the transparent is you know we don't

59:42
want to be screwed or taken advantage of

59:45
or you know treated as anything other

59:47
than intelligent beings

59:49
and

59:51
being able to be where the humans are

59:54
is you know what we've striven for

59:56
with stroke for with you know charging

59:59
for our time

1:00:00
and now being able to do like a real

1:00:02
time planning engagement doing virtual

1:00:04
planning we can see people where they're

1:00:07
at

1:00:08
at the time you know where they're at in

1:00:11
their heart and their head but also

1:00:13
physically and geographically so we

1:00:15
don't have to be there

1:00:17
but then be able to charge them just for

1:00:19
that you know exchange if you will um

1:00:22
and so you know it it sounds like we've

1:00:26
gone back to transit transactional

1:00:29
um a better word in my viewpoint might

1:00:32
be periodic

1:00:34
um

1:00:34
that you know kind of like you go to the

1:00:36
dentist and you pay for services when

1:00:38
you go um but you don't stop going if

1:00:42
you stop going that would be a bad thing

1:00:44
um so

1:00:45
you know the bottom line is

1:00:48
consumers should be driving um

1:00:51
industries and i feel that

1:00:54
this is where at least for one aspect of

1:00:58
the delivery advice

1:01:00
it's by time um and we're right in the

1:01:03
sweet spot of it so i absolutely believe

1:01:06
that's the future i've been i've been

1:01:08
early

1:01:09
but it is i haven't changed my mind but

1:01:11
you've been right and the person that's

1:01:13
early and right her name is

1:01:15
cheryl garrett and we really appreciate

1:01:17
you being on fun with annuities hope you

1:01:20
join us next time and i want to thank

1:01:21
everybody in all the major podcast

1:01:23
platforms and the fun with annuities

1:01:24
youtube channel for joining us

1:01:26
i'll see you next time

1:01:32
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1:01:34
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1:01:39
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1:02:07
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1:02:10
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1:02:12
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1:02:15
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1:02:16
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1:02:22
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1:02:26
[Music]

1:02:37
you