Roger Whitney: How To Rock Your Retirement

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welcome to fun with annuities with your

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host me stan the annuity man america's

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annuity agent can annuities be fun can

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contractual guarantees be fun

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absolutely they can find out the brutal

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facts about annuities with no sales

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pitches or high pressure nonsense just

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the brutal and factual annuity truth

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which is all you need to hear

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let's have some fun with annuities and

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let's have that fun start right now

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[Music]

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welcome to fun with annuities i'm your

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host stan the annuity man america's

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annuity agent boy do we have a

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cool guest today

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he goes by the moniker of the retirement

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answer man which rhymes with the annuity

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man so it kind of between the two of us

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i think we got it covered his name is

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roger whitney boy has he got a lot going

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on he has a podcast he's written a book

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he's got a a club that you can join he's

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got a free newsletter all that stuff and

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we'll have that

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on my site at theannuityman.com because

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all of our celebrity guests like this

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get their own page on my site to where

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you can go and link to their site and

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learn about who they are but um

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superstar stuff here young

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vibrant smart heady

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i mean he's the guy man if i want if i

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still drink beer this be the guy that

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i'd say hey let's go get a beer

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but uh hey roger thanks for joining me

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on fun with annuities

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and you're going to send me a clip of

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that for my daily affirmation i hope

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absolutely no i'm a motivational

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slash annuity expert so

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roger tell the people about you i mean

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your journey to the retirement answer

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man

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you know is never planned it happens

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right you know you don't wake up in the

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morning go you know what i'm going to

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trademark retirement answer man and

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that's who i'm going to be

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i'm glad i remember when i remember when

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i first because the the our podcast

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which has been going for about eight

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years

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was originally called plan well invest

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wisely

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which really really doesn't say anything

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to anybody

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um

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and then um

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a gentleman that i actually learned some

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podcasting from uh the podcast answer

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man

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uh i was at a conference and i was

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talking to him and like why don't i just

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call it the retirement answer man so i

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talked to him about it he got it from

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the bible answer man

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who was an old school

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uh

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uh publisher of some sort and i remember

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when i named it and this is eight years

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ago it felt

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a little uncomfortable it felt a little

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arrogant

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because it's not like i got all the

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answers

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uh and i didn't want to be that person

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that acted like they did have all the

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answers but then i'm like okay if i do

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this i have to lean into it and it's

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going to make me go pro and be more

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intentional about what i actually do so

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that's how the name came about

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but you're right i mean when you get to

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be i'm 55 when you get you have a lot of

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different incarnations of who you are

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which is i think how a lot of people

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feel as they near

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we'll call it retirement i guess

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yeah when you pass that 50 mark you know

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things start getting weird and start

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getting real at the same time

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um how'd you get i mean where are you

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from where'd you go to school you know

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did you wake up in the morning go i like

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money let's let's let's talk about

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finances tell us that story i think it

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was more of uh how we all grow up for

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most most people i know anyway i went to

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michigan state ghost park uh

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spartans sparta on i was a uh i met my

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wife there that i was a bartender she

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was a waitress and then moved to texas

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after graduation just because she had

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moved down there to follow her family

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and the way i got into being a financial

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advisor which is other than one little

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one little

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beginning job out of college is all i've

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ever done

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it's not that fancy of a story i hated

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what i did i was bored i had a buddy

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that did it i'm like okay i'll try that

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i mean that's about

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the science behind it and so for the

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first eight years of my life started in

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90. i had really bad mentors

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not knowing because i was just a young

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kid

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and all i did was trade

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technology stocks for eight years in the

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90s which was a great thing to do sure

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um

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even if you didn't know what you were

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doing because the markets were so nice

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and then around 87 89 i

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knew this isn't what i was supposed to

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be doing with my life

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uh and so i started to get my certified

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financial planner certificate and i've

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gotten a number of other

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advanced planning designations and then

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just had kept reinventing myself as i've

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discovered what my what i'm supposed to

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be doing with my life which is never

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revealed to you in one instance

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is it a passion do you wake up in the

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morning with a passion to inform educate

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and simplify

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the world of money in retirement is that

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is that what you're on the planet for

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definitely um

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when so

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fast forward in o3 i started an

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independent firm with two partners

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and then over 15 years we grew that to

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about 15 people 12 15 people

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and i had gotten to this point in my 40s

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when

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in a business if you've been an

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entrepreneur or understand

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entrepreneurism you sort of have this

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flat line that you hit this hockey stick

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where your cash flow goes up but your

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overhead stays roughly the same and we

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had hit that spot

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and i was doing triathlons and adventure

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races in my mid-40s and i

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i

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i don't

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whatever you want to call it like is

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this what my life is going to be

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you know i could take care of my family

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do some trips is this what i'm supposed

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to be doing

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and

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so that's when i hired my first

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professional coach

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and what haunts me is i don't want to

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get to be 70 and say what could i have

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done

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and so that's what so when i started the

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podcast

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it was really a personal exploration of

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finding my voice and what do i really

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believe in

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and so i just have kept iterating

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um because i think out loud so that's

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the reason i started a podcast it was

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pretty selfish i just wanted to think

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out loud and start to form what my

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opinion and view was of

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financial planning retirement what

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the goals are really

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during this stage of life because that's

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you know what i was exposed to with

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clients so yeah totally this is where

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i'm supposed to be

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for anyone that uh forgot who this was

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roger whitney and he has all kinds of

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stuff his retirement answer man podcast

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is fantastic

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um we'll obviously have that link you

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need to go you know review that listen

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to the past episodes you know follow him

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on the current ones you wrote a book

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called rock

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retirement

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and there's a rock retirement club i

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want you to kind of go into the book

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what was the motivation behind that

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because it's not your typical

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retirement book it really kind of delves

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into

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what i call you know there's no u-hauls

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behind herses you need to maximize the

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daily lift for the day find out you know

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you've accumulated all this money now

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what um you know you just can't watch it

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pull up your bank account every day even

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though a lot of people do that

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where did the rock retirement idea come

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from and then could you go into the rock

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retirement club and what that entails

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yeah so i think there are two

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retirement crisis happening right now

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there's a one that we know about which

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is there's a lot of people

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that don't have enough money to pay the

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bills when they can't work anymore

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that's the one that we know about and

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that's a big one

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there's another retirement crisis that

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feels it's not talked about as much

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because it's sort of weird to talk about

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it because it seems like stop whining

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and that's the crisis of people that

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have

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been blessed

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but also have done a lot of things right

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for a long time

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and then they get to the stage of life

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where they can have more time freedom

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which is really what retirement is it's

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not retirement like grandpa's retirement

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that's how we think of it but it's not

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but there's a crisis with people that

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have a lot of options in that they're

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they're like a bodybuilder that have

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gotten really strong

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upper body but no legs they know how to

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accumulate

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they have this system of

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of affirmation

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of saving and investing and seeing it

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grow and being a good steward and then

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they get to retirement

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and they don't know how to harvest

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what they've accumulated

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and they're so worried about the future

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what their 80 or 90 year old self is

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gonna deal with

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and they don't have a good framework to

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know that they'll be okay so they just

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keep

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saving and denying themselves

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um that's a crisis a different kind of

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crisis not as

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re visceral as i don't have enough money

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so i don't want to diminish that

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relative to this but there's a lot of

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people that are in this position and

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what what has happened in my in my view

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stan is when i was teaching

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the retirement planning section section

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for the cfp

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certificate program certified financial

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planner certificate program

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in my view

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traditional classical financial planning

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doesn't solve for this

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it it

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classical financial planning

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focuses on what a number is it's all

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within the calculator because we're all

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financial geeks that's how the

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certification was created

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and

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there's

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for most people there isn't a financial

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dilemma there's a dilemma of vision

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and spirit of what they want for their

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life

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um

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and i think that's a big crisis for a

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good number of people

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it is i call it the middle class scars

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um

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where

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we have generations that grew up you

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know during the depression and then they

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passed on those middle class scars to

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their kids i always talk about you know

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say going to mcdonald's and my dad's

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standing there and i want to order and i

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order the large fry and he looks at me

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like i just you know committed the

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ultimate sin why would you ever order

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the large fry

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um but i think

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a lot of people suffer from the

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standpoint that they can't

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they can't spend it there's something

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that's that's in the way of them

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actually enjoying their money i want you

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you said a word that popped out at me

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during that explanation

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and i want you to dig deeper in the word

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was harvest

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can you go deeper when you say harvest

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um what does that mean to the retiree

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well let's let's use that metaphor you

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you you sow and sow and sow

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that's you're saving and investing and

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denying yourself and

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and

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betting on the markets over decades that

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compounding that creates

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a bountiful

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harvest and then reaping might be the

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better word right to okay when your

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retirement

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when you excuse me when you're retiring

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the whole point of all of this reaping

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was to use this to create a vision of

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your life once you've raised the family

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you've filled your work obligations

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and you've taken care of

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of that when you retire

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that's when you have the most time

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freedom let's think about a normal

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retiree right now right they're going to

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have

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they're going to live longer than any

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generation in history

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they're going to

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at least the segment we're talking about

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they're going to have money to be able

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to do things

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and they're going to be healthier than

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any generation i know we see statistics

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that they're not but

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the modern retiree when they retire they

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don't

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envision themselves sitting on the park

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bench of life they envision themselves

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in the playground and they finally have

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the time to go

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explore and do the things that they want

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to do or at least discover them if they

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don't know what they are sure

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that's what all this money is

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for and

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classical financial planning

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focuses on denying them that

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because the numbers on the longevity and

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the possibility of long-term care and

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your 80 or 90 year old self

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is so uncertain because of inflation

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markets whatever

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that it always

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defaults to decisions to deny yourself

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today

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and if you think about i think of a

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teeter-totter so when you're making

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these decisions you want to have your

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best great life today

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on one end and on the other end you

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don't you want to be okay when you're 80

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or 90.

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and there's a tension between those two

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things and you're standing on the middle

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of that teeter-totter trying to balance

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that and unfortunately the majority of

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planning which feeds the mindset of this

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very uncertain world

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is always going to default to denying

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today

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and that's

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not right

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because tomorrow isn't pro promise to

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anyone you got to be a good steward

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but

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what what i have observed and i'd be

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interested in your perspective on this

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stand

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walking this journey with clients

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over decades they've been denying

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themselves

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almost unconsciously and then they get

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to a point in their 80s or whatever

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point is they realize oh my goodness

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i'm going to have more money than i need

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[Music]

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and it's like a tipping point and then

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you start to get

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well crap what could i have done

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what trips could i have done what gifts

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could i have bestowed

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and so they're denying a blessing to the

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world in how they live it or in the

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gifts they give monetarily

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and then they end up

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being older with too much money and then

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just trying to give it away or just

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let the estate figure it out

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i think what i've found is is you know

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been through the similar journey with

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you you know with dean witter and morgan

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stanley playing weber ubs so i went

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through all of that

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and that's where i cut my teeth for

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decades but what i what i find with

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people out here and i only work in

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contractual guaranteed space fixed

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annuities is i tell people let's take

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this step first and the step is

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let's let's cover your income floor

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that income amount that you need every

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month to hit every single month social

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security pension if you're so fortunate

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dividend stock side hustle annuity gap

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feeling whatever that is

14:53
once we solve that enough and i found

14:55
out once we can solve that income floor

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for people they're gonna they don't

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worry as much they're better investors

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they're better stewards they live their

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life more but most people are worried

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about that

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lifetime income component without being

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affected by markets or geopolitical

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events etc

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once we can put that in place which is

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really the reason annuities are even put

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on the planet even though there's many

15:17
different types but they're primarily

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soft for lifetime income as long as

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you're breathing what i found is once we

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get that income

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floor in place and they understand how

15:27
we solve for inflation in the future we

15:28
just reverse engineer a spea immediate

15:31
annuity quote to solve for that increase

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uh when they need it then

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they're off and running so i i look at

15:38
it a little bit differently that if we

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can solve that one fear and most people

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have that fear of

15:44
paying the bills whether they have a

15:45
million dollars ten million dollars or a

15:47
hundred thousand dollars and once we do

15:49
that

15:50
they they're better investors they're

15:51
happier they're lighter in their step

15:54
um so that's just from my myopic space

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and the lane that i'm in which is the

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annuity man

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that's what i i see people getting over

16:04
the hump of those middle class scars of

16:05
not being able to spend money you know

16:08
yeah i think you're exactly i think

16:09
you're exactly right stan and that is

16:12
and that isn't a financial optimized

16:17
formula it's a life optimized formula

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right

16:20
to give them give themselves for someone

16:22
to give themselves permission to do

16:24
things

16:25
knowing that they have this base there

16:27
and i actually i have come around to

16:29
that

16:30
over the last two or three years

16:33
because you know traditionally how i

16:35
grew up

16:36
uh in my experience with annuities is

16:41
nasty it's just

16:43
it was this manufactured junk food well

16:46
a lot of products are like that and

16:47
we've earned our the industry has earned

16:49
this bad reputation

16:51
so as advisors right yeah because of how

16:53
they've used things like that sure and

16:55
and and so i think that

16:57
i've heard different terms for what

16:58
you're talking about right i've heard

17:00
the minimum dignity floor

17:02
i personally like yeah that uh i

17:04
personally like the the

17:06
the the base great life

17:09
too

17:10
so you can insure against the you know

17:12
basically ensure against the base great

17:13
life with these income streams

17:16
and on the um and on the like in my our

17:20
planning process

17:22
we begin with building the income floor

17:25
on the front end so when a client

17:27
retires they have the first five years

17:29
of consumption paid for and de-risked so

17:33
it's essentially the you know the using

17:36
cache-like things for an annuity on the

17:38
front end and then you you can do the

17:39
tail end as well

17:41
um but i think

17:42
that is one thing i have found like with

17:44
the rock retirement club where we have

17:46
over 800 people

17:48
all in this phase of life for about

17:50
three years i had office hours where i'd

17:52
have one-on-one conversations

17:54
not to give advice but to just to

17:57
listen and help be a decision-making

17:59
partner and one thing that really

18:01
surprised me

18:02
i did was unexpected stan and this goes

18:04
to your point

18:06
was the vast majority of them

18:10
of these sessions

18:12
were

18:15
people searching for permission to do

18:18
the things that they want to do

18:21
it was about

18:24
it was about you know have feeling safe

18:26
that they can do it without hurting

18:28
themselves

18:29
uh which goes to your point of this is

18:32
much more of a

18:33
crisis of faith and belief and structure

18:36
than it is a math problem for the people

18:38
that we're talking about now right

18:40
um it's much and that's that's

18:44
sad

18:46
but that's also encouraging because that

18:48
means that for those that

18:51
have

18:52
been blessed and done the things right

18:54
to have these choices if we can bring

18:57
the annuities or income floors or

19:01
perspective in their decision making

19:03
if we can bring these guideposts this

19:06
can help free them

19:07
to be able to harvest to be able to use

19:10
their bounty to help their family help

19:13
the world create memories

19:16
that's well beyond the math and that's

19:18
stuff that we don't talk about mostly as

19:20
financial planners because we like

19:22
numbers and we like investments well and

19:24
it's hard for people that i find to

19:26
transfer risk annuities are transfer of

19:29
risk products

19:31
we can obviously structure them so that

19:33
they'll pay you

19:34
if you die early all the money that's

19:36
unused goes to the family that's one of

19:38
the biggest misconceptions out there but

19:40
as long as you're breathing you're going

19:41
to get a payment and so it's the only

19:42
product that can do that but a lot of

19:44
people have a hard time

19:45
transferring that risk and allocating

19:47
that money to an irrevocable life

19:50
lifetime income stream which leads to

19:52
the fact that it has to be in proportion

19:54
and allocated properly so it makes sense

19:56
but i always tell people you already

19:58
have two annuities one social security

20:01
the other one is what i call a forced

20:03
annuity and that's rmds required minimum

20:06
distribution that literally functions

20:07
like an annuity because it's the irs

20:10
tapping you're on the shoulder and say

20:11
yeah we need a payment we need a payment

20:13
we need a payment you know and so you're

20:15
going to have to manage the risk of

20:16
those

20:17
potential rmds so they're going to end

20:19
up being cash-like anyway

20:21
correct

20:22
so once people get their arms around you

20:24
know the hater i hate all annuities boom

20:26
okay great you know young too uh most

20:29
people do that if you have an ira and

20:31
you have social security number you own

20:32
two

20:33
do you need more i don't know

20:35
but i think that

20:37
flipping through rock retirement book

20:39
um it was more about getting the you

20:42
trying to teach people to get their arms

20:44
around their specific situation

20:47
to make

20:49
a sound decision

20:51
um that will put them in a better place

20:54
mentally not financially because they're

20:56
already there but mentally so that they

20:57
can go live their life is that

20:59
did i get the synopsis of that right

21:02
yeah i wrote the book a specific way

21:05
when i was

21:06
i'm not naturally a writer

21:08
which is probably evident

21:10
but

21:12
i bought

21:14
i bought almost any retirement book i

21:16
could find and read them

21:18
and what i found was

21:20
many of them well written

21:22
very specific very technical

21:26
but everything is focused on

21:28
tactics uh do i do roth iras do i buy

21:32
the annuity do i do this specific thing

21:35
which is natural because that's where

21:38
individuals naturally live

21:40
you know if you know if um

21:43
you know if i have a pain in my arm i

21:45
had it actually i had a pinched nerve in

21:46
my neck i just wanted to go away and my

21:48
first instinct go to the doctor get an

21:50
mri and figure out what surgery you need

21:52
right that was all tactical because i

21:54
wanted this to go away because it was

21:56
horrible

21:58
um and so we live there so a lot of the

22:00
things that we hear about when it comes

22:02
to retirement planning are all tactical

22:04
things of what we should think about

22:06
very little is strategic

22:09
i'll use my neck example so as i went to

22:12
the doctor he actually gave me a script

22:13
to go get an mri and i said wait a

22:15
second here i'm gonna give this three

22:17
months and i'm gonna what's my strategy

22:19
to avoid these tactical solutions

22:22
and that was rest

22:24
stretching

22:27
and that was about it

22:28
in time

22:31
rather than just go have the doctor give

22:33
me something to make it go away

22:35
and over time it went away so

22:38
everything we do everything i'm about

22:41
with from an agile retirement management

22:43
standpoint is organized decision making

22:46
that

22:48
puts things in the right order so we can

22:50
think through things in an organized way

22:52
because you and you know this stand but

22:53
here's a secret

22:55
you can't figure this out

22:57
if you're 60 you can't figure out

23:02
how this is all going to work and plan

23:03
for it you just can't there's too many

23:06
unknowns and variables in your life

23:09
as well as the market so anybody that

23:11
tells you they have the solution is

23:12
lying to you i always tell people

23:14
there's no perfect answers just bad

23:16
sales pitches

23:17
um and everything's customizable so it

23:20
really comes down to the specific person

23:22
i want to do when you go ahead so when

23:24
you're thinking i just want to make sure

23:25
i hit this point because this goes to

23:26
your question is

23:28
everything that we talk about in the

23:30
process is

23:32
what do we want

23:34
create a strategy that makes that

23:36
feasible because you might have to

23:37
negotiate with yourself and then once

23:40
you have a feasible strategy

23:42
how do we make it resilient

23:44
so you don't get knocked off course

23:46
and then you get down to the tactics

23:49
so everybody wants to start tactics

23:51
where does this fit is it feasible get a

23:54
good strategy make it resilient and then

23:56
you can get to all the fancy tactical

23:58
stuff

24:00
i like that i i i hope that the

24:03
financial planning world is starting to

24:05
morph a little bit more into that as the

24:07
older financial planners age out and the

24:10
younger ones come in that they're more

24:11
attuned to that

24:13
because i think with you know the

24:14
demographic tidal wave of 10 000 baby

24:16
boomers plus

24:17
turning 65 every day

24:19
there's gonna it's not just about

24:21
tactics it's a it's about

24:25
advising people both on the money side

24:27
and the psychological side and the

24:29
lifestyle side

24:30
to to put it all together so a plan

24:32
works for

24:34
them but there is no cookie cutter monte

24:36
carlo simulation that's gonna that's

24:39
gonna solve for that i wanted to dig

24:40
more into the rock retirement club

24:43
what was the

24:45
impetus for putting that together

24:46
obviously you wrote the book

24:48
and then you go was that a

24:50
was that

24:52
clients and and and people pulling you

24:54
toward that or did you have an idea that

24:56
hey this might be a space

24:58
where people can interact tell us a

25:01
little bit more about that cost how

25:02
people get involved with that we'll have

25:04
the link on on our site for that yeah

25:06
it's about three and a half years old

25:08
and it was

25:10
you know my life has changed in a lot of

25:11
ways when i org when i uh associate

25:14
myself with certain kinds of people

25:17
and so

25:18
we had you know we had thought about it

25:20
so we we just surveyed the podcast and

25:23
in in you know we have a we did a survey

25:26
hey would you we're thinking about doing

25:27
this would you have an interest in that

25:28
what would you like to see what would

25:29
you like to see

25:31
and we were blown away by the response

25:33
we got you know almost a thousand

25:35
responses

25:36
answering our questions on the survey

25:38
so i thought that was interesting

25:41
but i i i didn't feel like i had enough

25:43
information so what i did was i asked

25:46
one of my teammates to

25:48
hey i want to talk to some of these

25:49
people

25:51
and so i ended up talking to about 80

25:53
people over two days

25:54
before about five to ten minutes each

25:57
and i had a couple specific questions

26:00
and i got those answered but after i

26:02
went through that

26:03
gauntlet over two days what i really

26:05
came away with

26:06
stan was

26:08
one all these people are super nice

26:13
they're in the same stage of life and

26:15
they're wicked smart

26:17
and

26:19
if and they all would like each other if

26:21
they were around each other

26:23
that literally brought me to tears i'm

26:25
like okay these people would love each

26:27
other so when we started the club it was

26:29
purely an experiment we started with 20

26:31
people and just let's figure this out

26:34
and so

26:35
the pillars of the rock retirement club

26:37
now is it's filling a space

26:39
in our mind between doing it on your own

26:43
and just going on the internet trying to

26:44
find information and putting it together

26:47
or hiring a financial planner or advisor

26:51
which

26:52
typically is going all in with somebody

26:55
as you know cost involved in that

26:58
and there's not a lot in between where

27:00
you can do it on your own

27:03
but not be by yourself

27:05
and

27:06
other than a few sources stan

27:09
there really isn't any place you can go

27:11
to get world-class education on how to

27:13
actually do retirement that it doesn't

27:16
have a sales pitch attached to it no

27:18
doubt absolutely true and so we created

27:21
the rock retirement club as a safe place

27:23
so there's never an upsell there's

27:26
you pay you get everything and there's

27:28
no i'm not accepting clients i'm not

27:30
using it to grow the business so what we

27:32
created was what we feel is world-class

27:35
education and how you actually put

27:36
together your plan

27:38
tools to be able to

27:40
execute

27:42
and then

27:43
coaching in group form

27:46
to

27:47
learn from each other as well as andy

27:49
panko who is on your show he's a coach

27:51
in the club

27:52
uh and others from really quality people

27:55
on taxes on lifestyle on putting

27:57
together your paycheck and then also

28:00
learning from the community because we

28:01
got a lot of wicked smart people and

28:03
they sure you're trying to do something

28:07
there's been somebody that's already

28:08
walked that path and it has a bogle

28:10
heads flare to it but um

28:13
sounds a little bit more hip

28:15
not to say boggleheads aren't hip

28:17
well it's all about be how how do we

28:19
make organized decision and i think the

28:21
key okay i've never really been on bogo

28:23
heads we talk about investment strategy

28:25
but not specifics

28:27
um

28:28
it's a safe place in that we don't talk

28:30
politics

28:31
uh we only we have a code of conduct

28:34
where we're all trying to help each

28:36
other and have productive conversations

28:39
and not going down rabbit holes and we

28:41
enforce that pretty pretty heavily so

28:44
it's a comfortable place whether you're

28:46
we have spreadsheet geeks but we have

28:47
people that don't know what a

28:48
spreadsheet is and so the goal is to

28:51
help

28:52
help in a group way

28:54
walk with people that are on the same

28:57
journey that have the same spirit so we

28:58
can all help each other

29:01
it's a community i i think it's a great

29:03
idea we did something similar on

29:04
facebook we have what's called the

29:06
annuity lovers club

29:07
which is a monitored club to where

29:10
people can come in and ask questions

29:12
about annuities without some hater

29:15
you know saying never blowing annuity

29:16
just going off you know so

29:18
uh we it's a safe space and it sounds

29:20
like it sounds similar to what you're

29:22
doing

29:23
but retirement as a whole is such a

29:25
broader

29:26
piece i mean obviously annuities is just

29:28
one piece and doesn't fit everyone's

29:30
situation i wanted to pivot a little bit

29:32
and talk about current events because

29:34
you know

29:35
we're on all major podcast platforms

29:36
like yours and we have fun with

29:38
annuities youtube channel and everyone's

29:40
always wanting to know where your brain

29:42
is on current events and

29:44
not that you have all the answers but

29:46
you have a high iq and they're

29:48
interested to hear your

29:50
insight because you know at the time of

29:51
this taping

29:53
there's a lot going on

29:55
there's there's war there's inflation

29:58
height and serious inflation there's a

30:00
mid up to upcoming midterm at the time

30:02
of this taping

30:05
i know that you don't get caught in the

30:06
weeds but a lot of people do what's your

30:08
advice to people that are just

30:10
worried because i get those calls all

30:12
the time

30:13
hey stan what do you think about x or

30:15
hey stan how do we deal with this or hey

30:17
stan

30:18
you know should we be concerned

30:21
what are your answers to some of the

30:22
things that's going on and it's always

30:24
something's always going on actually

30:27
that last sentence is the key to it all

30:29
there's always something going on

30:31
and that's no way to live your life

30:34
um

30:36
do i

30:38
do i worry about ukraine do i worry

30:40
about inflation sure

30:42
just like i worried about tarp and tarp

30:45
2 and all the quantitative easing

30:48
just like i worried about

30:50
the tech bust

30:52
i mean

30:54
i don't have an opinion

30:56
and i don't think i need to have an

30:57
opinion so

30:59
we use an agile process

31:01
so we've taken agile project management

31:03
and applied it to retirement planning

31:05
okay and

31:07
the question i'm getting a lot is

31:09
inflation

31:11
should i change my assumptions in my

31:13
plan

31:15
because inflation is spiking i saw the

31:17
gentleman i can't recall his name that

31:19
wrote that did this study on the four

31:21
percent rule back in the day

31:23
you just had an article just did one way

31:25
foul did a

31:27
kind of a deep dive into the four

31:28
percent role yeah well the gentleman who

31:31
did the original study back in the 80s

31:33
just had an article oh okay i didn't see

31:35
that okay yeah i can't recall his name

31:37
and

31:38
he was reducing his retirement spending

31:41
because he's worried about inflation

31:44
um okay

31:46
but it's in the wall street journal so i

31:48
don't want to over summarize the article

31:51
that is not a way to live a life agreed

31:54
um

31:55
do we have to be aware of it yes but i

31:58
am very i don't change assumptions

32:00
hardly at all on anything

32:02
whether it's inflation on market

32:04
expectations

32:05
because all you're doing is trying to

32:07
predict the future i don't use

32:08
forecasted returns i've gotten into some

32:11
uh pre yeah fun exchanges with people

32:15
that forecast investment returns and

32:18
change withdrawal rates i think that's

32:19
all a waste of time because you can't

32:22
predict the future so i don't spend any

32:24
time trying to handicap what the future

32:26
is going to be i spend all of my time

32:29
on how do we have lots of little

32:31
conversations so as reality unfolds we

32:34
can make little adjustments to our plan

32:37
so once you have a plan of record is

32:40
what we call it stan

32:42
now you have context where you know

32:45
you've created a feasible plan and

32:47
you've made it resilient so you don't

32:49
get knocked off course easy either by

32:51
life or inflation or markets

32:54
and then you optimize it best you can

32:57
but from there that's the beginning of

32:59
the journey that gives you the context

33:01
so you don't have to

33:03
read the news every day because when you

33:05
retire you shouldn't have

33:08
any worry about the first five years of

33:10
how your life is actually going to work

33:12
that should be pretty clear

33:15
because you pre-funded your consumption

33:17
and then long term maybe you pre-funded

33:19
your base great life with annuities or

33:22
whatever

33:24
from there if you do that work

33:27
then you can have little conversations

33:29
and as life unfolds whether it's changes

33:32
in inflation or changes in your life

33:34
circumstance are probably the biggest

33:36
change we're going to see overall is

33:38
i've changed my mind i that said i

33:39
wanted this i actually want that that's

33:41
actually the thing that's going to

33:42
change the most in your retirement

33:44
when you have these little conversations

33:47
you're refreshing the plan is it still

33:49
feasible is it still resilient and then

33:52
what's the biggest opportunity or the

33:54
biggest risk that i should focus on next

33:57
and how can i take one action

34:00
to either mitigate that risk or take

34:01
advantage of the opportunity and you do

34:03
this in an incremental iterative way

34:06
so you're focused on

34:09
making decisions

34:11
so you can

34:13
navigate as life unfolds rather than

34:16
freaking out about

34:18
potential inflation forever

34:20
which nobody can predict or handicap i

34:22
don't i think it's a waste of time

34:24
i told someone the other day

34:26
that you know they're in their

34:29
mid late 60s i'm like how much longer

34:33
do you plan on watching cable news and

34:35
keeping up with the news and it kind of

34:36
florida they're like what do you mean

34:38
i'm like you've been watching it for 20

34:39
years probably 30 years at what point

34:42
are you going to realize that

34:43
it's just noise and you just got to move

34:45
on with your life i think

34:47
i think that um

34:49
that's a big problem you know just just

34:51
the click bait the the stuff that's on

34:53
the internet and people just going down

34:55
the rabbit hole i was talking to a nice

34:56
lady the other day

34:58
and she brought up something that was

34:59
conspiracy theory i'm like where are you

35:01
getting your information

35:03
i mean it just tells me that they don't

35:04
have a plan in place they don't have a

35:06
legitimate

35:08
road map to what they're trying to do

35:09
and what they're trying to accomplish

35:12
and i think that leads into your book i

35:14
think it leads into your club i think it

35:16
leads into your whole

35:18
overview

35:19
of

35:20
how you approach retirement i do love

35:22
your podcast and you do dig into

35:25
specific

35:26
products and you give your opinion on

35:28
that

35:29
um

35:31
what have you found people gravitate

35:33
toward or do you or do they influence

35:36
your decision making on what you're

35:37
going to talk about

35:39
or

35:39
how does that come about with the

35:41
podcast because i love it it can be very

35:42
specific on a on etfs etc or it can be

35:46
broad-based

35:47
yeah we do we do monthly themes

35:50
and so the theme next month

35:54
is in may 2022

35:56
is functional health

35:58
which is very different than

36:01
health and exercise functional health is

36:04
how do i set myself up to pick up my

36:06
grandchild when i'm 80 or 75 or whatever

36:08
that age is right it's a very different

36:09
kind of health um in

36:12
february we did a month on inflation

36:16
so the way that i've used that use the

36:18
podcast is one

36:21
i'm

36:22
i practice i work with clients i'm

36:24
having these conversations in the club

36:26
with over 800 people

36:28
we're all having conversations so i

36:30
under i i'm hearing what people are

36:32
thinking about

36:33
and then i and then so that influences

36:36
it and the other thing that influences

36:38
i'll use inflation as an example because

36:39
that was in february is

36:42
i use the reason i do month-long series

36:44
is because it's my way of refreshing my

36:46
thinking

36:48
and thinking through it in an organized

36:50
way

36:51
so i use it as a vehicle for me to

36:53
refresh my thinking to sharpen my saw so

36:56
i don't get stale in my you know you

36:59
know decisions i've made in my past

37:02
has there been anything new or an

37:04
epiphany or a lightning bolt that hit

37:06
you during that monthly process that

37:08
you weren't expecting that became

37:10
something that is now fact within your

37:14
um within how you approach things can

37:16
you remember anything like that

37:18
and

37:19
this isn't because i'm on stanley and

37:21
uniman

37:23
but i i haven't done the refresh in a

37:25
while but i did a i did a month-long

37:28
series on annuities okay maybe a year

37:30
year and a half ago

37:32
and uh because i have my biases against

37:36
um

37:37
especially being agile

37:39
uh mainly my bias

37:41
so i did a month-long series of where do

37:43
they what are they how do they fit

37:46
and then which ones fit best if you were

37:49
going to use them what are the use case

37:50
and for whom good um

37:53
and during that process and i in the

37:56
first episode i'm like hey i'm going to

37:57
tell you i got a bias and this is what

37:59
it is and this is why sure uh but from

38:02
that process

38:05
they be they have

38:07
come into the toolbox as something that

38:09
can be used and we now have frameworks

38:12
as to what make who does it make sense

38:14
for and how are they used sure um

38:17
and that was very different than how i

38:18
had started

38:19
and i think a lot of people you know

38:21
that when you see tv i'd say i hate all

38:23
annuities or i'd rather enter the gates

38:25
of hell than own an annuity and you know

38:27
it takes people like me out here

38:28
screaming into the hurricane to say no

38:31
that's not true let's look at the facts

38:33
let's break it down a little bit

38:36
and go from there

38:40
what do you think about the current

38:43
wirehouse type model with brokers and

38:46
advisors selling specific products or

38:48
things like that and where the financial

38:50
planning world is headed

38:55
can they both coexist or do you see one

38:58
going away because in my personal

39:00
opinion having worked for the wirehouse

39:01
firms

39:02
that's an interesting model that i'm not

39:05
sure is sustainable unless they change

39:07
it

39:08
drastically

39:10
what's your thought on that

39:12
i don't think about it much

39:15
but from an industry standpoint

39:20
i think

39:21
that

39:24
i don't know timing but where i think

39:27
we're going to go is

39:28
that

39:30
a true financial advisor

39:32
financial planner

39:34
is going to

39:36
become coupled with a life planner

39:39
and the problem with financial planning

39:41
and in in financial advisors in general

39:43
and this is going to sound weird is that

39:45
the hub of everything

39:48
are investments and money

39:50
that's the hub of which all processes

39:54
lead back to right

39:56
um and especially in retirement planning

39:59
that's a horrible hub because it's what

40:01
we talked about the hub should be

40:03
what type of life

40:07
how do i live my best life so i can

40:11
be on my deathbed with the least amount

40:13
of regrets

40:15
that should be the hub of everything in

40:16
retirement planning

40:18
and financial planning and retirement

40:20
planning have investments as the hub

40:23
and so i think the future of financial

40:25
counsel is going to be

40:28
less about the money as the hub and the

40:31
person's life is the hub and we're going

40:33
to be agnostic to investments or

40:36
products from a compensation standpoint

40:38
we're going to be paid directly by the

40:40
client

40:41
whether it's retainer like andy or andy

40:43
panko does or whatever it is

40:45
because

40:48
we're going to be decision making

40:50
partners around lots of decisions

40:52
financial and non-financial and you

40:55
can't do that

40:57
as

40:58
easily if you're if you have investments

41:01
as the hub that's where we're going

41:03
where we agree with you i agree with you

41:05
and i think the younger generations

41:07
coming behind us or maybe ours

41:10
are more open to that and more open to

41:13
that model

41:14
um because i think as uh the younger

41:16
generations are more open to

41:18
you know using a psychiatrist or a

41:20
psychologist i think that it's not as

41:22
taboo as it is with say like my mom who

41:25
would

41:26
you know she would never consider that

41:28
for whatever reason

41:29
it's probably generational but i think

41:31
you're right and i think it's going to

41:32
be it's like everything else it can't

41:35
stay the same it's got to

41:37
improve and morph into what's pro

41:40
consumer not what the companies want to

41:43
happen to the consumer and the financial

41:45
businesses is like the last bastion of

41:48
that in my opinion yeah the difficulty i

41:50
think stan is

41:51
uh the financial services industry is

41:54
at its core a distribution system

41:57
it's not a financial planning structure

42:00
so the industry is about distribution

42:03
of product

42:05
and so how do you take a distribution

42:07
system and make it about the client

42:09
i don't know

42:11
we'll let the markets figure that out

42:13
but

42:15
i in the problem with going this

42:17
direction i think from the the firms

42:19
that you talk about is

42:21
that is not easy to scale

42:24
it's not easy to scale

42:27
personal planning with someone and being

42:29
a decision-making partner with someone

42:32
where

42:33
i mean andy knows this for sure

42:35
andy panko who's on your show a month or

42:37
so ago is

42:40
a lot of financial advisors can't do any

42:42
tax thinking or talking

42:44
they can't do any tax planning true uh

42:47
especially at the large firms and in

42:49
retirement that's probably financially

42:52
one of the biggest levers that you can

42:54
pull to impact your life

42:56
so i don't know how all that works

42:59
uh i personally think that

43:01
and this is part of my

43:03
life mission whatever you want to call

43:05
it is

43:06
the agile process is going to become the

43:10
standard pro financial planning process

43:13
because the traditional financial

43:15
planning process

43:16
is focused on the wrong things and too

43:19
bloated it's not engaging to people

43:22
you might have just answered the

43:23
question i'm getting ready to ask but i

43:25
i want you to dig in deeper 20 years

43:27
from now where is roger whitney and what

43:29
is roger whitney is roger whitney still

43:31
doing this

43:33
at a much larger level

43:35
what do you you know where do you see

43:37
yourself what's the what's the um i know

43:39
we don't we play you know we live life

43:41
for the day

43:42
but when we're on this podcast 20 years

43:44
from now what's what's happened between

43:46
them i'll be 75 20 years old

43:49
you'll be rolling man you'll be rolling

43:50
so

43:51
my rabbit in this case is the gentleman

43:54
named dan miller okay who wrote 48 days

43:57
to the work you love new york times

43:59
bestseller i've known him for a good

44:01
period of time he's a good friend and

44:02
he's 70 sorry dan i'm not sure 72

44:06
73 and

44:08
he and his wife joanne have

44:11
the marriage i want him i want to have

44:13
with my wife when i'm in my 70s

44:15
he is more alive and more

44:17
entrepreneurial than he's ever been

44:20
so

44:21
where am i going to be my

44:25
the club will be the core of everything

44:28
and

44:29
how do

44:30
when i think of the cabin the future of

44:31
the rock retirement club is it's how do

44:33
we

44:35
all help each other the the motto of the

44:37
club is a psalm walk with the wise

44:39
become wise

44:40
is how do we walk together with people

44:43
and and help each other make decisions

44:46
and actually operationalize

44:49
rocking retirement

44:50
because

44:52
in retire oh financial planning there's

44:54
lots of information about things you

44:55
should think about

44:56
but there's nothing that actually shows

44:58
you how to do it

45:00
so

45:01
as an example we're about to release our

45:04
first decision pod

45:06
that's a compliment to the master class

45:08
that helps people create their their

45:09
major plan and that is how do i manage

45:11
long-term care

45:14
right so it's not an education

45:17
course on what is long-term care what

45:19
are all the things there's a little bit

45:21
of that but it's really

45:22
a process

45:24
and tools

45:25
to think through the decision for

45:27
yourself so you can do it in an

45:29
organized way and then you can get to

45:31
the spot where you make a judgment

45:33
so i'm that's where we're going is how

45:36
do we oper help people actually do this

45:38
and make these decisions

45:40
um

45:42
yeah that's right and the resources

45:43
section of roger's site is unbelievable

45:47
it's it's it's i'm assuming that's where

45:49
a lot of that's going to be in addition

45:51
to the membership into the rock

45:53
retirement club which i think is um

45:55
i like that i like the background to

45:57
that i think that is that's very

46:01
very cool um

46:03
so we're kind of coming up to the end of

46:05
the of the podcast because i think we've

46:06
covered a lot and i certainly would like

46:08
to have you on in the future to

46:10
to dig in give us some updates on rock

46:12
retirement and where you're headed but

46:14
as i do with all my celebrity guests at

46:15
the very end i give you the mic drop

46:17
moment

46:19
which is i'm gonna throw you the mic

46:20
you're gonna say something unbelievably

46:22
cool and heady and then you're gonna

46:24
drop it and then we're gonna finish it

46:25
up so mic drop moment

46:27
roger whitney aka

46:30
the retirement answer man go

46:36
the one thing that is lacking most for

46:38
many people

46:40
is hope when they're retirement they're

46:43
hoping they're so worried about the

46:45
future

46:47
and making sure they're okay

46:49
that they're just hoping they survive it

46:51
and can have some fun along the way

46:55
and

46:56
but to really have hope you need three

46:58
things

47:00
and these are three things

47:02
get robbed of people in retirement

47:04
especially if they lose their job the

47:06
first thing you need to have hope

47:08
is you need to have an inspiring

47:11
goal

47:12
a vision of a of a better state for

47:14
yourself in the future

47:17
the second thing you need to have to

47:19
have hope

47:20
is agency

47:22
the belief that you actually have some

47:24
ability to act to make that future state

47:27
for yourself so

47:29
and in retirement we get a lot of our

47:31
agency robbed we feel like we're at the

47:33
whim of the world

47:35
and the last thing that you need to have

47:37
hope are pathways not just one but

47:40
pathways

47:41
where you can apply your agency

47:43
depending on how life unfolds and i

47:45
think those are the things that we

47:47
generally get robbed of in retirement

47:50
we just hope we survive it but if we can

47:51
have an inspiring goal and we can

47:53
actually have agency that we have some

47:55
control over it and we can have a

47:57
framework of decision making so we can

47:59
actually apply that agency to work to

48:02
this better life

48:04
that's how you rock retirement

48:06
ladies and gentlemen that is roger

48:08
whitney he's the retirement answer man

48:09
if you didn't think he was before that

48:11
statement then um

48:13
game set match in my opinion i want to

48:15
thank everyone on all major podcast

48:18
platforms for joining us today on fun

48:20
with annuities and the people that are

48:21
watching

48:22
roger and i on the fun with annuities

48:25
youtube channel we will see you next

48:27
time

48:32
thanks for listening to fun with

48:34
annuities please hit the subscribe

48:36
button and make sure to go to my site at

48:38
the annuityman.com where you can run

48:41
your own spea dia and culat quotes and

48:44
see a live feed of the best maga fix

48:46
rates in the country and even get

48:48
indexed and income rider quotes as well

48:51
you can also sign up for my six annuity

48:54
owner's manual books and i'll ship them

48:56
for free and under no obligation i also

48:59
encourage you to schedule a one-on-one

49:01
call with me stand the annuity man so we

49:04
can have a full discussion of your

49:06
specific situation it will be the best

49:09
brutally factual and truthful advice

49:12
you will ever get and that's one

49:13
guarantee you should definitely take

49:15
advantage of so join me next time for

49:17
the number one annuity podcast on the

49:20
planet fun

49:22
with annuities

49:26
[Music]

49:37
you