Rick Ferri: Core-4 Portfolios for Simplistic Success (TAM Classic)

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[Music]

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welcome to fun with annuities where

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every single week I welcome a celebrity

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guest expert that can help you maximize

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chapter 2 of your life listen learn

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laugh and love every minute of the most

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unique Financial podcast on the planet

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let's get to

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[Music]

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it welcome to fun with annuities I'm

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your host Stan the annuity man America's

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annuity agent as you well know boy do we

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have a good guest for you today um his

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name is Rick Ferry let me tell you a

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little bit about him and that is the

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spelling is f r i I'll have all his

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information as you know on my site at

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the annuity man.com he'll have a

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permanent page there um and I want to

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just welcome all the people on the major

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podcast platforms and on on the fun with

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the nties YouTube channel where you can

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see Rick and I looking at each other he

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is a I tell you what this is a person

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that is unique and and I can say that

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with confidence um this is a retired

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fighter pilot former stock broker adj

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adjunct college professor founded a firm

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for low advisory fees and now has a um

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hourly consultant advisory firm which

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he's backed up and booked forever but I

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mean he is he's who we're looking for

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from a standpoint of a podcast bet yes

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he started his investment career in

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1989 as a stock broker at a large large

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Wall Street firm kind of like I do with

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Dean Whitter Payne Weber Morgan Stanley

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UBS and then he um he just said hey I

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can do it better and he has core beliefs

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and and some things that are going to

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align exactly with my listeners and

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viewers hey Rick thank you for joining

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fun with annuities I appreciate it thank

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you thank you Stan for inviting me I

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appreciate it very much so we're not

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going to talk initially about

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Investments we're going to talk about

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fighter piloting okay so can you give us

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the story there because um I went to the

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Air Force Academy briefly in my career

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so I know what you did and what it takes

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to be who you are so can you give us the

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elevator speech on the fighter pilot

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background well I graduated from college

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the University of Rhode Island in 1980

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and uh back then there was a I want to

2:23
say a 133% unemployment rate and it was

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not a very friendly job Market but one

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of my buddies from high school had gone

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in the military had a had a good

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experience with that after high school

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and I was an eagle scout and I was

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always into you know camping and doing

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things outdoors so I decided I was going

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to go into the military and I looked

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around at the various services and the

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Marine Corps aligned with what I wanted

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to do the few the proud kind of the do

2:50
more with less do everything with

2:52
nothing mentality that they had and so I

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joined the Marines uh I went to quanico

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uh Virginia Officer school and they said

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to me would you like to fly a fighter

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aircraft and I said sure yeah what the

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heck right I never flown before in my

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life but yeah we'll try that so I took

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the exams my eyes were good luckily and

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my you know they went through the

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medical thing and it was accepted into

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Flight School uh went down to Pensacola

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Florida which is Navy flight school yep

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which is all the Marines go to Navy

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flight school and there um is the first

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primary training and they throw you

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through a bunch of drills this is all

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the things you see on TV about you know

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mhm turning off all the lights and and

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putting you in a what looks like a a tin

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can and throwing you under water upside

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down and say okay get out all of that

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stuff so did all of that and got through

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it all took the battery of exams and

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somehow passed and they did a

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psychological exam and I somehow passed

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that as well and they uh sent me to uh

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to start flying airplanes and I did I

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did well enough so that they sent me to

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advanced fighter uh aircraft later on

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when they were selecting and I went down

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to Kingsville Texas where I met my my

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wife of 40 years and still married uh

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and uh got my wings about a year and a

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half later you know I do a lot of

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carrier Landings and a lot of airto a

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combat and shooting things and you know

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just all the kind of fighter pilot stuff

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that you you know you watch on TV and so

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forth did all that in flight school and

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then went off to fly uh initially a4s

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and then a6s uhh and uh that was what I

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what I did for about 8 years until I

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left active duty and and then I went in

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the reserves and actually retired from

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the reserves after 20 years but when I

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left active duty I went to uh and went

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into the investment industry so I think

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that the the thing that I learned though

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most was H when I was landing on

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aircraft carriers because it was both

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day and night aircraft carrier

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operations and that has to be so precise

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so accurate I

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mean any screw up at all and and you

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know you hit the deck you hit the water

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you hit something and so it's very very

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accurate No margin for error and and

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when I left that environment and I went

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to Wall Street it was the exact

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opposite correct you know yeah that's

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good enough you know we don't worry

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about these things and accuracy was

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never something that we were concerned

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about and you know you do what you do to

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to to make your money and I that was

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completely foreign to me I mean I really

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didn't understand that so that that was

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one of my initial reactions to uh to

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wall St when I when I went there from

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that fighter

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pilot you know

5:35
environment what makes you go there I

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mean what made you go into the financial

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services business what was the drive

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there actually had my undergraduate

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degree in Business Administration with a

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minor and entrepreneurial study so I was

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you know very much an entrepreneur I had

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um put myself through college by doing a

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basically a flea market antique business

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I would go and buy Antiques and various

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things from yard sale and auctions and

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uh you know clocks I mean you name it

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and I would turn around and resell them

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uh to dealers and res and resell them at

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a booth that I would set up so I was

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very much into you know you could Val

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what is the value of things and and what

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can you sell them for and it it

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interested me enough to get a business

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degree and also um when I was getting

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out I I still had a very big interest in

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taxes and investing and and so forth I

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decided I wasn't going to be an airline

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pilot like all my friends became an

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airline pilot uh I decided I was going

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to go to Wall Street and that's what I

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that's what I did and you're one of the

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Pioneers in Loy investment advice and

6:38
portfolio management using ETFs and

6:40
index funds I mean you were the I mean

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Pioneers take all the arrows and I'm

6:43
sure you took a bunch early but uh and

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you and you've written seven over I

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think seven books um hundreds of

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Articles people have probably read them

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in Wall Street Journal in Forbes and

6:52
places like that he's even won um he

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even won an award on a research paper he

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did on index investing so I mean what

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the reason that I was so happy for you

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to come on is I wanted you to talk about

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you know how your core beliefs then

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leads into the core what you call the

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core four number four portfolios I think

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that my listeners would be

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fascinated to hear about those six

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simple portfolio models that pretty much

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any in investor can adopt and they can

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customize um as a foundation using that

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and you even have put together a free

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website for public use on that

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which we'll have on our site you don't

7:31
have to write anything down but can you

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cover I'm assuming core four comes from

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your core views and your core beliefs am

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I right well the word core I'm not sure

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yeah I think that it came from the idea

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that investing is a whole lot simpler

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than what people make it out to be

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especially people in the industry who

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are trying to make a living from this

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that uh you know it it's not that

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difficult and uh

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and the more you study it and the more

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you're in it you realize the simpler you

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can make things the better off you're

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going to be in the long term if you can

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keep things very low cost if you can

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keep your taxes low if you could uh just

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buy it put it away and forget it uh or

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maybe do some rebalancing once a year

8:20
and you just don't do much I mean the

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less you do the better off you are the

8:24
less moving Parts the better but you

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would need to be broadly Diversified as

8:27
well so in the core for idea which I

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developed probably 15 years ago

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initially was all what if we were just

8:35
to develop a simple portfolio that might

8:38
hold four funds say two stock funds and

8:40
two bond funds but they don't even

8:43
really have to be B bond funds I mean

8:44
they could be CDs they could be um

8:48
annuities fixed annuities they could be

8:50
anything as long as a fixed income type

8:52
allocation but on the stock side you do

8:55
a total stock market index fund which is

8:57
a US fund that holds all of the stocks

8:59
on on the market and a total

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International fund which holds all the

9:03
stocks on the international market and

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these are your two core

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Holdings along with your two Bond

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Holdings let's say um and that's all you

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did how would you do and the answer is

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you'd actually outperform over 90% of

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everyone else with your Investment

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Portfolio just doing that wow if you're

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not measuring yourself against the

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markets because you're not going to

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outperform the markets you're just going

9:23
to get the the return of the markets but

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you'll outperform over 90% of all other

9:29
investors because they're all trying to

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do other things and that's probably a

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conservative number 90% it's probably

9:35
higher than that so that was the idea of

9:37
the core 4 initially and uh I talked

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about it for a while and I wrote about

9:42
it in Forbes and then I actually created

9:45
a website a few years ago and what I did

9:47
with that website was I took a couple of

9:49
variations of the core 4 I said well if

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you

9:53
want a high dividend yielding portfolio

9:56
then you could buy these four funds and

9:58
if you wanted a

10:00
ESG socially

10:03
conscious portfolio you could buy these

10:05
four funds so it's still was just four

10:07
funds that was the idea and you could

10:09
just this is the portfolio 100% in whole

10:12
done finished or you could use it as the

10:15
core of something else where you might

10:18
put a little icing on the cake if you

10:20
will this is the cake and if you wanted

10:21
to put a little icing on the cake you

10:23
could add some other things to it so

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that was the idea make it simple so that

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anybody can do it they don't need to be

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paying 1% to a financial adviser or

10:31
2% High fees didn't need that just just

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follow this recipe bake your cake the

10:37
way you want it and then you could add a

10:38
little icing to it and that was the

10:40
whole idea and that's what I put out

10:42
there if anyone out there is like

10:44
screaming into the uh at their car if

10:46
they're driving or if they're on a

10:48
wherever you're at and you're saying

10:49
wait a minute that sounds eerily

10:51
familiar to John Bogle and the

10:54
bogleheads uh spoiler alert um Rick

10:57
co-edited the book called the bogleheads

11:00
guide to retirement planning and he even

11:02
is a host of a podcast called bogleheads

11:06
on investing

11:08
so he's he's a disciple as they say of

11:11
that simplistic type of approach in fact

11:14
he he actually will say that simple

11:16
investing is actually a virtue and is

11:19
really the ultimate in portfolio

11:21
sophistication which kind of leads to

11:23
the whole Steve Jobs thing is simple is

11:25
complex correct that's correct uh simp

11:29
Simplicity is a virtue complexity is a

11:32
cost the more complex you make your

11:34
portfolio the costlier it's going to be

11:36
it's not going to perform as well the

11:38
fees will be higher you'll make more

11:40
mistakes uh so complexity is a cost

11:44
Simplicity is a virtue and if you can

11:47
follow this with your Investment

11:48
Portfolio and you're going to be better

11:50
off in in the long term I mean it's it's

11:52
a marathon I mean we invest our whole

11:54
lives all the way up until the end and

11:56
actually we invest for our kids and

11:58
grandkids as well so this is

12:00
multigenerational and if you can make it

12:02
simple and make it low cost and tax

12:04
efficient you're going to be better off

12:06
and that's that's the belief that the

12:07
bogleheads have the belief that I have

12:09
correct well and and what I like about

12:12
all of this is is you I mean the funds

12:16
and the ETFs that Rick is talking about

12:18
they're widely available everywhere

12:20
whether you want to do it yourself or

12:21
with a your brother-in-law that's

12:23
managing your F whatever whatever it

12:25
work you know whatever works for you

12:26
that's what I like about it it's simple

12:29
tax efficient it's broadly Diversified

12:32
it's low cost um and it works you knows

12:36
it works and I was thinking about as you

12:39
were explaining that to a person that's

12:41
flown a uh a fighter jet a jet and

12:44
landed it on a um on an aircraft carrier

12:47
Market volatility probably doesn't

12:48
affect you that much am I correct well

12:51
you know was funny when uh I came into

12:53
the investment industry people would

12:55
talk about risk and I didn't really

12:56
understand what they were talking about

12:57
I said no you understand what risk is I

13:00
mean I get to go home every single night

13:01
to see my family I mean this is not a

13:03
risky business I just don't understand

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what you mean by risk You by by the way

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I know people are yelling at at the uh

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at the screen and at their at whatever

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they're listening to and say Sam please

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give this site okay I'm gonna have it on

13:16
my site but it's the site that we're

13:17
talking about is core C r- for.com Core

13:22
Das not the word Dash but the actual

13:25
Dash for.com and on there you can view

13:28
free for

13:29
portfolios you can look at custom

13:31
portfolios um it's all free keyword free

13:34
I mean Rick's not playing around now he

13:36
is I think am I right about this but

13:39
when you started you came from the Wall

13:41
Street firms you know we me and you both

13:43
could talk about that for a whole show

13:44
but we don't want to be negative um but

13:47
when you left there you're saying wait a

13:48
minute this this can be so simple and

13:51
effective that this is really an hourly

13:53
fee type Arrangement is that what

13:55
brought you there how did you get to

13:57
being one of the pioneers of hourly fee

14:01
advising well a couple of things I mean

14:03
Cheryl Garrett from Garrett Planning

14:05
Network is the Pioneer of hourly

14:07
advising I've been a fan of Cheryl's for

14:09
20 years so I give her all the credit

14:10
for that I just adopted the model uh

14:13
recently but when I left Wall Street The

14:16
Brokerage industry back in 1999 because

14:18
I was oh first of all I wanted to do

14:20
this type of investing for clients and I

14:22
couldn't do it as you know from being in

14:24
that industry back then you couldn't do

14:26
it there were no ETFs well there were a

14:28
couple of ETFs but but it wasn't like it

14:29
is now they've really shunned anything

14:31
having to do with index and it was all

14:33
about active management and high fees

14:35
and return on assets meaning how much

14:37
money you're going to get from your

14:38
client portfolio for you and for us and

14:40
for the firm and and it wasn't about you

14:42
know client Centric at all really so

14:45
when I had the epiphany of indexing back

14:47
in around

14:48
1996 I decided I needed to leave that

14:50
industry but took me three years to do

14:52
it because I had a contract and I had to

14:54
hang around for another three years

14:55
where I would have would have lost a lot

14:57
of money I had redone my kitchen we

14:59
bought a popup camper and you know I

15:00
spent all the money that I got and and

15:02
so therefore uh you know I needed to

15:04
hang out but I did but I just planned my

15:06
escape and left in 1999 and started a

15:09
low fee advisory business which was

15:11
revolutionary at the time I charged a

15:13
quarter of a percent

15:14
0.25% W to put put people in basically

15:17
portfolios of Vanguard index funds and

15:19
some ETFs and some dimensional fund

15:21
advisors which were kind of like index

15:23
funds and I custody at Schwab and

15:25
custody at Fidelity custody at TD Merit

15:28
rate the clients accounts but I only

15:29
charged a quarter of a percent and that

15:31
really took off I mean it it was uh it

15:35
was we up to went up to a billion and a

15:37
half dollars and I ended up getting

15:38
bought out by a private Equity investor

15:40
and rather the ugliest transaction you

15:42
ever want to talk about and we really

15:43
want to want to talk about it there but

15:44
it was Terri it was a terrible thing

15:46
that uh happened anyway uh but uh when

15:50
when I got bought out eventually by uh

15:52
this fellow uh he um he went and took

15:55
the company a different direction

15:56
unfortunately but uh I was left you know

15:59
without a job and uh short on compete

16:02
and I said okay now I'm going to do

16:03
really what I have been thinking about

16:05
doing for a long time I'm going to

16:07
follow Cheryl's lead and I'm just going

16:09
to do advice for the sake of advice

16:12
people pay me now yeah I the

16:15
hour for advice and uh that's it I have

16:20
no skin in the game and I I just do what

16:24
I believe is in their best interest and

16:26
and I say to them if I were you this is

16:27
what I would do and I it's I'm it's

16:29
really the truth that is exactly what I

16:31
would do I'm not trying to sell a

16:32
portfolio Management Service I'm not

16:34
trying to sell any products I'm just

16:35
trying to help people with their

16:38
financial life and uh I get that that's

16:41
what my business is now I work with one

16:42
or two clients a day for an hour or two

16:45
a day and and that's it per client you

16:47
just

16:48
succinctly Define

16:50
fiduciary I hope so that's that's what a

16:53
say what's a fiducia rick just Rick just

16:55
did it he's doing what he would do for

16:57
himself he's putting your best interest

16:59
ahead of everything I find it funny that

17:02
we have to somewhat try to legislate

17:04
people having morals and ethics um if

17:07
you're in the financial business you

17:09
should by default be a fiduciary because

17:11
that's why you're in it I want to go

17:12
back to the core four real quick and I

17:15
was digging in last night and was really

17:17
fascinated because when you go to that

17:19
site again it's going to be on my

17:21
website you'll just link to it it's free

17:23
there's a classic portfolio there's a

17:25
total economy portfolio there's a global

17:27
markets portfolio there's an inflation

17:29
portfolio there's an income Seeker

17:31
portfolio and even for you socially

17:33
conscious people out there there's an

17:35
ESG socially conscious

17:37
portfolio you pretty much covered the

17:40
full spectrum on that which was the

17:42
first one to come which was the first

17:45
one you introduced and which one was the

17:47
last that you in well actually the first

17:49
one isn't even on there the original

17:51
original classic portfolio was the total

17:54
stock market index fund the total

17:55
International Index Fund the US total

17:58
bond market or aggregate bond market

18:00
index fund and a a US TIPS Index Fund

18:04
sure now for some reason I didn't put

18:07
that one on there but if there was a

18:08
pre-classic that was it and then I

18:11
expanded it a little bit and said okay

18:12
let's just do the total stock Total Bond

18:15
Market and drop the tips um and go with

18:19
the three stock funds which are the

18:21
total stock the total International and

18:23
a little bit in the real estate fund but

18:25
again you can make some match these

18:27
however you you need to it they it's all

18:30
as I wrote on the website you either

18:32
take them as they are or you modify them

18:35
to your needs um but the idea is

18:38
Simplicity be simple be low cost be

18:42
consistent uh stay the course be tax

18:45
efficient all the good boglehead type

18:47
philosophy sure that goes behind uh

18:50
these these portfolios and there's also

18:55
funds that do it all you could you could

18:57
just buy a balanced index fund or life

19:00
strategy fund from Vanguard and it's

19:02
pretty close to the same thing only you

19:03
don't have to manage the portfolio

19:05
yourself they will do it for you right

19:07
there through the life strategy fund so

19:08
there's other ways of doing it as well

19:10
to be very simple but this is the idea

19:12
be simple be low cost with that being

19:15
said with over 5,000 mutual funds and

19:17
over 2,000 ETFs you know and Counting

19:21
you know choosing amongst those can be

19:23
really hard to do um on your site you

19:26
list kind of a like a four step step

19:29
five it's actually a fstep

19:31
process can you kind of go through that

19:34
knowing that and everyone knows that

19:35
everyone's situation is customizable but

19:37
can you go through the steps the five

19:39
steps that you lay down and once again

19:41
it's on his site but I think the the

19:42
viewers and listeners would be

19:44
interested for you to explain it since

19:46
you came up with it well great could you

19:48
tell me first what the steps are and

19:50
I'll absolutely we're gonna do it I'm so

19:54
don't remember everything I wrot select

19:55
a portfolio strategy

19:59
so this would be the asset allocation

20:02
between stocks and bonds so you have to

20:04
make a determination whether not you're

20:07
going to be aggressive or whether you're

20:08
going to be conservative because you

20:10
want to be consistent with this so your

20:12
strategy is going to be am I should be

20:15
should I be aggressive should I be 80%

20:17
in stocks should I be conservative

20:19
should I be 50% or 40% in stocks so you

20:21
first have to decide what the cake is

20:24
going to look like and and how

20:26
aggressive you're going to be or how

20:27
conservative you're going to be and

20:29
that's based on two factors number one

20:31
what kind of a rate of return do you

20:32
need do you need a higher rate of return

20:33
do you need a higher rate of return I

20:34
mean you are you required to get a

20:37
higher rate of return because you're

20:38
really not able to save that much and

20:40
you really need to get more and that you

20:42
would need to have a uh a higher

20:44
allocation to stocks um but then also

20:47
your ability to handle risk because if

20:51
even if you need to get a higher rate of

20:53
return if you can't handle the

20:55
volatility that that implies then you're

20:57
going to not get a higher rate of return

21:00
because at the worst time of the market

21:01
you're going to pull the plug and

21:03
capitulate and jump out and that's going

21:04
to going to hurt you so it's a

21:06
combination of two sides of the the coin

21:08
it's you're emotional you understand

21:09
yourself emotionally and then

21:11
technically do you understand how you

21:13
know what kind of rate return you're

21:15
looking for to to come up with the

21:17
strategy that you need the uh you know

21:19
the asset allocation step number two is

21:22
is choose a stock and bond mix now you

21:24
do have a link to the Vanguard

21:26
questionnaire on there which I think is

21:27
is is is good okay so let me let me let

21:31
me

21:32
reverse let me back up that I apologize

21:34
so so the strategy would simply be

21:36
getting be active or passive uh so I

21:38
apologize for that so this is actually I

21:40
already answered step two so this is

21:41
step one so Step One is are you going to

21:43
be active or passive and that's simply

21:44
are you going to use lowcost index funds

21:46
or you're going to try to outperform the

21:48
market and clearly I say the benefit to

21:50
you is to use lowcost index funds which

21:51
leads us into number two which is the

21:53
asset allocation question of how much

21:55
you should have between stocks and bonds

21:57
sure and then number three was it just

22:00
select your funds I think that's the one

22:02
that people are GNA go wait a minute

22:03
didn't you just say Stan there's 5,000

22:04
funds and 2,000 ETFs and the answer is

22:06
yes I did select your funds that's where

22:10
you can help correct with this with this

22:12
site sure sure

22:14
so 99% of those funds are not needed

22:18
unnecessary redundant you know they're

22:21
there for some other purpose other than

22:22
to make you money they're to make

22:23
somebody else money the funds you want

22:25
to concentrate on are the total Market

22:28
index funds the US total Market the

22:31
international total market and you could

22:33
go and

22:34
Screen total stock market index fund

22:37
list total International Index Fund list

22:39
and you'll come up with these databases

22:41
that'll you'll be able to screen for

22:42
this uh there's not that many of them

22:44
out there Fidelity has them Schwab has

22:47
it Vanguard of course has it some ETFs

22:50
like uh State Street has it uh I shares

22:53
has it and they're all very very similar

22:56
you look at the underlying index that

22:57
they're follow that they follow and they

22:59
were all very similar they all have at

23:01
least 2500 stocks all the way up to

23:02
4,000 stocks they were all low cost so

23:05
really any of those would work well uh

23:09
same thing on the international stock

23:10
fund you do a total International be the

23:12
same thing you'll get a a laundry list

23:15
of funds and ETFs that track the entire

23:19
International Market which is maybe

23:21
6,000 other companies not in the US

23:24
Fidelity has one Vanguard has one there

23:27
there's there's a number them out there

23:29
some of them include Emerging Markets

23:31
those are the ones I like so it's both

23:32
developed markets and emerging markets

23:34
in One Fund so

23:36
there's probably five or six really good

23:39
very lowcost funds that are available by

23:41
different vendors that different fund

23:43
companies that are that are available to

23:46
you and on the bond side there's Total

23:48
Bond Market is offered by Vanguard by

23:51
Fidelity by Schwab I shares State Street

23:55
uh there there's black rock has there's

23:58
a a lot of different uh Total Bond

24:00
Market funds and again on the fixed

24:03
income side it could be different

24:04
doesn't have to be a bond fund it could

24:05
be a CD ladder it could be annuity fixed

24:07
could be any could be a lot of different

24:08
things on the on the bond side but um

24:12
there's these are the core funds that

24:14
you're looking for

24:16
and the differences between them are not

24:19
much the fees are all very very low like

24:22
in the stock funds they might be 03 to

24:25
maybe 05% they're all very low

24:28
International might be a tad higher than

24:30
that bond funds are going to be very low

24:33
and so you could tell when you're

24:34
looking at the fund the expense ratio

24:36
really whether you've got what you're

24:37
looking for because if the expense ratio

24:40
is very low around you know less than

24:42
0.1% you're probably fishing in the

24:44
right L this is what you should be

24:46
looking

24:47
for you've partnered with a firm that

24:49
offers something called a portfolio

24:51
visualizer which is Step number four

24:53
analyzing your selection or ongoing

24:55
analysis of those selections yeah

24:58
without thinking that people are going

25:00
to go down the rabbit hole here because

25:01
we don't want them to do that obviously

25:04
um tell us how that works and and how

25:06
you simplified

25:08
that well the portfolio of visualizer

25:10
again is a free website and you can just

25:12
type in these exchange traded fund

25:14
symbols in there and if you wanted to

25:18
know what the performance was which some

25:21
people do personally me I I don't care

25:24
what the performance was it makes no

25:25
difference to me I'm I that's in the

25:27
past I I have a good idea why I'm

25:30
investing in these funds for the future

25:31
but I mean if you really wanted to know

25:32
you could type them all into this free

25:34
website portfolio visualizer and you can

25:36
see this portfolio achieved X return

25:39
with x amount of risk and had so much

25:41
downside and so much upside during you

25:44
know various Market cycles and and you

25:45
could look at it now I don't really

25:47
believe that

25:49
that's I I I can't even recall the last

25:52
time I actually calculate people people

25:54
do calculate that I have people who who

25:57
I get I get on the internet and I can

26:00
find people who calculate what what the

26:02
rates of return are of those portfolios

26:04
but I don't and nor do I care because

26:06
I'm not it I I guess I'm after 35 years

26:09
in the industry and seven books and CFA

26:12
and MBA and all this other stuff that

26:13
I've done Masters of Science and finance

26:15
and blah blah blah blah and all the

26:16
research I realized

26:19
that that's not that doesn't really give

26:21
me any information at all you know what

26:24
that happened if I'm doing low cost and

26:26
I'm doing diversification

26:28
and I'm doing low taxes and I'm going to

26:30
stay the course I know what I'm expected

26:32
to get out of that going forward it

26:34
doesn't really matter what happened over

26:35
the last five years or 10 years and

26:37
quite frankly it's really a distraction

26:40
to go down that road but since some

26:42
people want to see then it's there and I

26:45
did link up with them again it's all

26:47
free it's not like there's any kind of a

26:50
cost at doing any of this that's what I

26:53
love it's no gotas once again let's

26:55
before we get to step five because I'll

26:57
let you knock that one out of the Park

26:58
Step One is select a portfolio strategy

27:00
step two is choose a stock and bond mix

27:03
step number three is select your funds

27:06
step number four is analyze your

27:08
selections and step number five Rick

27:11
invest your core four portfolio yes

27:15
that's it now now I know you're solid

27:18
you're you're pull the trigger so in

27:20
other words don't just analy pull the

27:21
trigger right right procrastination it's

27:23
it's the last phase so uh let me kind of

27:26
talk about the three phases of this of

27:27
the three steps to getting this done the

27:29
first step is the philosophy which is

27:31
the you know what you had talked about

27:34
you whether you're going to be passive

27:35
or whether you're going to be active if

27:36
you're going to do index funds you're

27:37
going to be passive low cost so that's

27:39
the philosophy that you're using you're

27:41
not going to try to outperform and then

27:42
there's the strategy and the strategy is

27:44
what we had talked about how to select

27:45
the funds how to select your asset

27:46
allocation and then how to select the

27:48
funds and all of uh everything you need

27:50
to do and if you want to test it or look

27:52
at it whatever but come up with what it

27:53
is you're going to do now's the hard

27:57
part not the hard part and the hard part

27:59
is do it get actually do it get it

28:03
implemented and maintain it this is

28:07
excruciatingly difficult the other stuff

28:09
is interesting I mean there's an

28:11
epiphany of the active versus passive

28:14
side step one where you say oh wow I get

28:16
this this is great this is wonderful I'm

28:19
I I get the whole idea the clouds lift I

28:21
I get the whole thing and then you start

28:22
digging into the details of okay how do

28:24
I do this how should I do it what should

28:26
my portfolio look like what funds should

28:27
I use how do I mix all this stuff

28:29
together and you get to that point this

28:30
is what I should do that's kind of uh

28:33
you know stimulating brain stimulating

28:35
if you want but now comes the hard work

28:38
and that is do it do it well and that's

28:42
what that's that's in life I mean it's

28:44
it's hard it's hard to pull the trigger

28:47
um of the seven books that you've you've

28:49
written and I'll read them off to the to

28:51
the listeners and viewers and once again

28:52
we'll have the link straight to his uh

28:55
his Amazon site so you can buy them um

28:58
and the books are titled all about asset

29:01
allocation um another one's called All

29:03
About index funds another the ETF Book

29:07
fourth one is the power of passive

29:08
investing fifth is protecting your

29:10
wealth in good times and bad fifth is

29:13
serious money straight talk about

29:14
investing for

29:16
retirement and then the the the final

29:18
one the bogleheads guide to retirement

29:21
planning two of those jumped out at me

29:22
Rick which is protecting your wealth in

29:24
good times and bad and then the serious

29:27
money straight talk about investing for

29:28
retirement most of the people that are

29:29
listening to this either thinking about

29:31
retirement in retirement can trying to

29:33
spell retirement but at least going in

29:35
that direction and then the other one so

29:37
we need to talk a little bit about that

29:39
but the good times and bad which seem to

29:41
always be around can you discuss the

29:44
current environment and what people you

29:47
know the fears people have you talk to

29:48
them just like I do and sure what's your

29:50
advice Mr fighter

29:52
pilot well this twoo Shall

29:55
Pass uh look you investing it doesn't

30:00
come without risk if you don't want any

30:01
risk well you can't you can't invest

30:04
without risk because even if you left

30:06
your money in a money market fund

30:08
inflation is eating it away right now so

30:12
you have inflation risk it's just living

30:14
has risks so uh money has risks burying

30:18
your money in a mason jar is risky so

30:21
it's it's not

30:25
uh this environment is not different

30:28
than any other environment it's always

30:30
unknown there always something you could

30:33
point to that's bad you can always point

30:35
to something that's good that's what

30:37
makes a

30:38
market we have uh you know interest

30:41
rates right now are h i I never say are

30:45
going anyway so I can't

30:47
say little tongue and cheek I cannot say

30:50
interest rates are going up because we

30:52
don't know that now we think interest

30:54
rates are going up but we don't know

30:56
interest rates are going up and so

30:58
people have been hurt because for 15

31:01
years they thought interest rates were

31:03
going up and interest rates went down uh

31:06
so now interest rates have gone up

31:09
they've gone up a lot in the first

31:11
quarter in fact more so than in the last

31:13
40 years they really people who have had

31:16
money in bonds bond funds have lost more

31:19
of their temporarily because things are

31:21
self-correcting in the bond market

31:23
remember those bonds come due they get

31:25
reinvested money coming in now the

31:27
didn't dividends and interests coming in

31:29
from uh cash paying Securities get

31:32
reinvested at higher rates so it becomes

31:34
self-correcting self-writing doesn't

31:36
happen right away but it does happen so

31:39
this is but this is a shock to a lot of

31:41
people uh who had not seen Bond lose

31:45
money I saw it back in 1994 pretty

31:47
substantial losses in fixed income I was

31:49
there yeah but not as bad as actually it

31:51
is now it's a little bit worse now uh at

31:54
least up until today and again I don't

31:56
know what's going to happen this moment

31:58
forward but that's what has happened and

32:02
stocks have come down some and there

32:07
there is a relationship between higher

32:09
interest rates and lower stock prices so

32:12
the fact that interest rates have gone

32:14
up and the price of stocks have come

32:16
down some is no surprise if interest

32:19
rates continue to go higher it could be

32:21
stocks will will continue to go lower

32:24
however if it doesn't that that doesn't

32:26
happen on the plus side you've got a

32:28
tremendous amount of cash sitting on the

32:31
sideline from that needs to be invested

32:34
even my client's portfolios just overly

32:38
stuffed with cash and waiting to invest

32:42
in bonds and stocks trillions of dollars

32:45
out there in the banking industry

32:47
waiting to be invested in stocks and

32:49
bonds so there's a this Avalanche of

32:52
money out there that could come tumbling

32:53
into the market if say there was a

32:56
ceasefire and whatever whatever the

32:58
catalyst is you know in the UK it

33:00
doesn't matter what it is they'll this

33:03
could everything could reverse um we

33:05
just don't know we don't know those

33:06
things so how do you invest with all of

33:10
these uh known unknowns and unknown

33:13
unknowns and all all of that how do how

33:15
do you invest well you have to have an

33:18
allocation that you can stick with

33:19
between stocks and bonds through all

33:21
market conditions you have to be very

33:23
low cost just be tax efficient do some

33:26
tax loss harvesting in your taxable

33:27
account if you've lost some money take

33:31
the lemons and turn them into lemon

33:32
eight go from one Vanguard Total stock

33:35
market index fund to an ier total stock

33:37
market index fund go from a Vanguard

33:40
Total Bond market index fund to an ier

33:43
Total Bond market index fund it's not a

33:44
wash sale because there are two

33:46
different fund companies there so you

33:47
can take the tax loss and you can use

33:49
those tax losses to offset gains or

33:51
ordinary income up to $3,000 a year so

33:54
you just be smart about how to use these

33:55
tax you make make make the tax loss and

33:58
asset if you will take advantage of

34:00
doing that so there are things you can

34:01
do to take advantage of uh the this

34:04
downturn that has occurred in the

34:07
market as far as changing your

34:09
investment

34:10
strategy that you don't want to do you

34:13
particularly when things have either red

34:15
hot or have taken a beating that's not

34:18
when you want to change your investment

34:19
strategy you don't want to become Brave

34:21
in a bull market and you don't want to

34:22
get scared in a down Market you just

34:24
have to maintain stay the course and and

34:28
things eventually self-right after a

34:31
while but it does sometimes take a while

34:34
if you have money that you need to buy a

34:36
house with or you're going to be doing

34:38
something else with that money it

34:39
probably shouldn't be in the stock or

34:41
the bond market anyway it should

34:42
probably be sitting in a bank somewhere

34:44
earning very low interest but and

34:47
probably below inflation interest but

34:49
that money is for your spending needs

34:52
and I don't really even count that as

34:54
far as your investment so you got to

34:56
differentiate Monies as well long-term

34:58
money you need to be very patient with

35:01
and the short-term money you just need

35:02
to be very safe

35:04
with one of the things I was reading uh

35:07
I was reading a bunch of your stuff um

35:09
over the weekend actually and one of the

35:12
things that jumped out to me is

35:13
something you said about the there's

35:14
some three attributes that successful

35:18
investors have and and you have

35:21
cultivated this over your you know 35

35:23
years of talking to people and helping

35:25
people and listening to people

35:28
um there are three and I want you to

35:30
cover each of them but it's number one

35:32
is is Embrace a a passive philosophy

35:35
number two is create a portfolio

35:38
strategy and then the hardest one

35:41
maintain discipline now for marine like

35:44
you that's that's an easy one but for

35:45
the rest of us sure sure it is that's an

35:48
easy one well a lot of my Marine Corps

35:50
friends unfortunately uh who are flying

35:53
jets unfortunately are not around today

35:54
because they didn't maintain flight

35:56
discipline but uh um

35:59
okay uh sadly but uh let's let's go P

36:02
you know we kind of talked about passive

36:04
philosophy and we and portfolio strategy

36:07
can we talk a little bit about the

36:09
discipline and and the DI hard

36:11
discipline that you talk about sticking

36:14
with the plan that's easy to say because

36:16
we've all started and stopped and

36:18
started diets and WR written down you

36:21
know first the year goals but investing

36:22
this is legit this is real this is game

36:25
time how do how do you tell people to do

36:27
that

36:28
yeah so you know the three things the

36:29
philosophy the strategy and the

36:31
discipline are really taking what you

36:32
initially started with about the five

36:33
things and I sort of boiled them down to

36:35
three so took you know took the asset

36:37
allocation side and the fund selection

36:39
side and I packaged it together into

36:40
strategy so I took that and made it five

36:43
and I made it three here so you can see

36:45
the evolution of this as I try to get

36:46
even simpler and simpler uh when

36:49
describing the approach but again

36:51
discipline is two sides the first first

36:55
side is getting it invested you have to

36:57
actually implement it so the first part

36:59
of discipline is now that I've got the

37:01
strategy I've got my plan I know what I

37:03
want to do getting it implemented is

37:06
difficult it's how do you tell people to

37:08
to get over that hump I I mean what do

37:11
you tell them you have a person on the

37:12
phone and they just keep him and and Han

37:14
and this is you know you've had a couple

37:16
of conversations with them can't I can't

37:18
get them to do it I I can't it's it's

37:21
it's like it's like a uh a a physical

37:24
trainer who says you've got to come in

37:25
and work out if you want to get in shape

37:28
and they say yes I'm coming I'm coming I

37:29
promise I am I'm coming I'm going to do

37:31
it I'm going to do it and they never do

37:32
it right it you can you know lead a

37:34
horse to water but you can't make them

37:35
drink kind of thing I can show you what

37:37
you need to do I can help you create the

37:38
plan I can't do it for you now here's

37:42
where advisers come in where they say

37:44
they can do it but they can only really

37:46
do a small portion of it because it

37:47
might be 401k plan that needs to be

37:49
implemented you may have to buy some CDs

37:51
or do some other things some paperwork

37:53
has to be done if they even as an

37:55
adviser if the if the client doesn't do

37:56
the paperwork doesn't follow through

37:59
there's nothing you could actually do

38:00
about it so the the first phase of this

38:02
is actually get it done get it done now

38:04
I've got some clients who are very very

38:06
good at it they've taken this plan that

38:08
I helped them create and they they went

38:09
and they got it done and then there's

38:12
the other half the other half of EX call

38:15
me up a year later and say well haven't

38:17
are you going to really upset with me I

38:18
really haven't been very good I kind of

38:19
got some of it done but not all of it

38:21
and then we go through it all again and

38:22
say okay and I write out this is what

38:24
you need to do you need to do this this

38:25
this this this and I send it to them and

38:27
in a year later they call back and they

38:29
send me their portfolio and it hasn't

38:31
really changed very much right so it's

38:33
like than I can't do anything about that

38:35
I I honestly can't one you you you at

38:39
some point it gets done maybe and if it

38:42
gets

38:43
done that's the biggest hurdle I mean by

38:47
far once you get it done maintaining it

38:52
is easy you know once you go to the gym

38:54
a few times and you start working out

38:55
it's easier to get in the car

38:58
or and go to the gym because you you get

39:00
into a routine and it makes it so much

39:01
easier but this is the

39:04
implementation phase of discipline is

39:08
absolutely the hardest phase of

39:11
investing it's not the philosophy it's

39:14
not coming up with the strategy that's

39:15
all fun and interesting it's the

39:17
excruciating pain that it seems like

39:20
people sometimes have to go through to

39:21
actually get it implemented but once

39:22
it's implemented once it's done then

39:25
they're pretty much it's easy to

39:28
maintain it's really not difficult at

39:29
all do you think that market timing or

39:32
interest rate timing is the the killer

39:35
of discipline a lot of

39:38
times yeah let's talk about this and let

39:42
me frame it in a either when you're

39:46
going to implement the strategy and

39:47
you've got a bunch of cash are you going

39:49
to do a lump

39:51
sum you're going to do it all at once

39:53
and one day you're going to go in and

39:54
you're going to do all the trades and

39:55
you're going to get it done in one lump

39:57
sum

39:58
or you're going to dollar cost average

40:00
where it might put some in now three

40:02
months later you put some more in six

40:04
months later you put some more in and so

40:05
forth until it's all actually done now

40:08
it sounds a whole lot more palatable to

40:11
people who oh you know who are looking

40:14
at the market and saying well the

40:15
Market's high or maybe the market has

40:18
come down and I think it's going to come

40:19
down further you know what if interest

40:21
rates go up and this and that because

40:22
it's really palatable to them to do

40:25
dollar cost averaging well let me tell

40:27
you it's usually not the best way of

40:29
doing it and here's why it doesn't get

40:32
done it doesn't get

40:35
done what they'll do is look if you're

40:39
going to do the lump sum let's cover

40:40
that first if you're going to do the

40:41
lump sum it's painful excruciatingly

40:44
painful and you might as well get it

40:46
into your mind that if you do the lump

40:48
sum and you take it all and you

40:49
implement it in one day you make the

40:51
change and you do it all in one day you

40:53
might as well just get it into your head

40:56
the next day the market going to crash

40:58
you might as well get it into your head

41:00
cuz it's going to you just expect it to

41:03
now we don't know whether or not it will

41:05
or not but you're sitting here saying

41:07
when should I do this when should I do

41:08
it okay I'm going to do it now you might

41:11
as well have in your head that your

41:13
timing is the worst it could possibly be

41:14
and the Market's going to crash because

41:17
if it does then it meets your

41:20
expectation and if it doesn't it's like

41:23
wow actually went up you know this is

41:25
incredible I didn't screw myself

41:27
okay so you do it one time it's one pain

41:30
point that you have to get over and it's

41:31
a big pain point to get it invested and

41:33
no by the way statistically that's what

41:35
you should do mathematically you should

41:36
get a all invested at once and don't

41:37
worry about it but people want to be

41:39
able to do the dollar cost average

41:40
because it just sounds more sounds

41:42
better well let's go to the dollar cost

41:44
average person okay now I got to invest

41:46
a million dollars I'm going to put

41:47
$250,000 a quarter for the next uh four

41:51
quarters I'm going to start today I put

41:53
it in today ah I got my I got a quarter

41:55
of it invested three months from now I

41:58
have to go through the same

42:05
excrucior or maybe I don't like what's I

42:08
see right uh going on in the world maybe

42:11
I don't like this election that's coming

42:13
up maybe I'm gonna wait and in other

42:15
words it doesn't get done so dollar cost

42:18
chenging is a great idea and if you

42:20
could do it automated where somebody

42:21
else does it for you or computer does it

42:23
great well you have no say in the matter

42:25
that's great like a 401k

42:27
yeah the money comes out of your

42:29
checking your your check or your pay

42:31
paycheck and it goes directly to the

42:33
401K and it gets invested okay you don't

42:35
touch the money that's great somebody

42:36
else does it it works but when you have

42:38
to do it it doesn't work it's hard to do

42:41
but once you rip the Band-Aid and

42:42
implement it all all at once it's done

42:45
you're not going back you're not going

42:47
to change anything you're you should

42:49
expect bad things to happen after you

42:52
rip the Band-Aid off there's going to be

42:53
some

42:54
bleeding potentially and and you just

42:58
expect that just expect you're going to

42:59
be wrong in your Market timing expect

43:01
that the Market's going to work against

43:02
you as soon as you rip the Band-Aid

43:04
off but but here's the thing about

43:06
ripping the bandaid once you rip the

43:07
bandaid off it's off it's it's done the

43:09
account's invested yes there may be some

43:11
bleeding but you're not going to change

43:13
it it's finished you you've allocated

43:15
you're you're invested you're in the

43:17
program now and now you can go forward

43:21
um dollar cost averaging you have to rip

43:23
the Band-Aid off like four times or

43:25
eight times because you're put putting

43:27
this money in over a period of staging

43:29
it in over a period of a year or two and

43:31
it just ripping the bandaid off once is

43:33
hard enough but having to do it four

43:34
times or eight times is just way too

43:36
hard for most people couple couple final

43:38
questions because this has been

43:40
fascinating I could talk to you forever

43:42
but I am interested with someone of your

43:44
background and knowledge and just

43:46
Outlook on things what's your take on

43:48
bitcoin right here not the blockchain

43:50
technology is obviously I think that's

43:52
legitimate technology but the the

43:55
Bitcoin tulip B whatever you want to

43:57
call it I'm I'm fascinated to know what

43:59
someone like you thinks about that well

44:02
I don't know what the value of a Bitcoin

44:04
is uh to me there is a cost to mining a

44:07
Bitcoin and that is a really fixed cost

44:10
based on the amount of power that you

44:12
have to use to to mine a Bitcoin and

44:14
also the amount of capital you have to

44:16
put in sure a hard Hardware to to to get

44:20
this thing going so there there is a

44:21
cost to mining a Bitcoin and to me at

44:24
least the value of a Bitcoin should at

44:26
least equal the cost to mine it much

44:28
like if you were going to be mining

44:30
copper or gold or anything else I mean

44:32
at some point if it's not economical to

44:35
mine Bitcoin anymore then people would

44:37
stop mining Bitcoin until it did become

44:40
economical so there must be some value

44:42
to it because it is the currency in

44:44
which these miners are paid for figuring

44:47
out the algorithms and confirming the

44:49
trades and so forth in the blockchain so

44:51
there must be some value to it uh and to

44:53
me

44:54
it's it's it's the it's the the the cost

44:58
to mine it so be there's so many miners

45:00
out there and you could get into the

45:01
business pretty easily sure uh by just

45:03
downloading some basically free software

45:05
and you know buying some computers and

45:07
then hooking it up to the to the grid

45:08
but the bottom line is it's hard

45:10
to uh you know what is that cost is it

45:13
35,000 36,000 I mean there's a hash rate

45:16
that that tells us what the cost is so

45:17
then maybe that is the value the true

45:18
value of Bitcoin and things kind of

45:21
fluctuate from around that but I I I

45:22
don't know now as far as using this in a

45:25
portfolio if you're going treat Bitcoin

45:27
as a currency some sort of a Global

45:29
Currency that um you know it's important

45:33
for some countries you know third world

45:35
countries are Emerging Markets if you

45:37
want to be politically correct uh you

45:40
know this is a really uh an important uh

45:42
technology that helps them transact

45:44
business but um yeah it's got a long way

45:48
to go in this country and develop

45:50
markets and I say to people if you're

45:53
treating this as a currency then are you

45:55
going to put it along side of your

45:57
portfolio of Yen and uh

46:02
Sterling and Euro and deutschmark are

46:05
you going to add it to that currency

46:07
portfolio and they look at me go what

46:09
are you talking about I said well you're

46:11
telling me this is a currency so that

46:14
means you must have a currency portfolio

46:16
correct and they it's like they never

46:19
thought about that I'm like well how can

46:21
you not have a currency portfolio if

46:25
you're talking about buying currency

46:26
this currency and so they said well I I

46:28
I don't really want a currency portfolio

46:30
I never really thought about having

46:31
should I have a currency portfolio I

46:32
said no you don't need a currency

46:33
portfolio and fact is if the world

46:35
starts transacting in Bitcoin if big

46:38
companies start transacting in Bitcoin

46:40
it'll be part of the balance sheets of

46:41
Corporations it'll already be in your

46:43
portfolio there will be companies like

46:45
coinbase and so forth that'll be in the

46:46
total stock market index fund you're

46:48
going to have exposure to it sure you

46:49
don't really have to go out and buy

46:51
Bitcoin to do that in fact if you a

46:53
total total stock market fund you

46:55
already own a little bit of this already

46:57
so that that's that is a a very good

46:59
point definitely one more question but

47:01
before I do that I was writing down just

47:04
kind of who you are I'm just fascinated

47:05
with the character that you are and and

47:07
the personality that you are uh which is

47:09
I know my viewers and listeners are just

47:11
loving this but one last question but

47:13
before that I wrote down fighter pilot

47:15
entrepreneur Visionary 40-year husband

47:19
boglehead Leader Road Island Ram I see I

47:22
know the mask former Marine investment

47:25
advisor expert CFA NBA

47:29
fiduciary an allaround good guy and with

47:31
that being said and I left out a bunch

47:33
yeah I used to be the Rhode Island Table

47:35
Tennis champion too at one time see

47:36
there you go pingpong expert table

47:39
tennis ping pong in the South you know

47:41
but um I do this with all my celebrity

47:43
guests at the very end and I never tell

47:45
anybody beforehand but I think you can

47:49
handle it Mr fighter pilot you've SE

47:50
something you can do it so we're you

47:53
know we're g to come in and we're going

47:54
to land this thing on the uh on the deck

47:57
of the moving boat mic drop

48:00
moment what would you tell people if you

48:03
had the mic for 30 seconds to minute

48:05
words of wisdom from Rick Ferry yeah all

48:08
this money stuff is not important uh

48:10
your family is the most important thing

48:12
and if you take care of your family

48:13
everything else will will work out uh

48:15
happy wife happy life I firmly believe

48:17
that and uh that's where you should be

48:19
concentrating your efforts all this

48:20
investment stuff I mean I wish I learned

48:21
about indexing a long time ago so that I

48:23
could have just done it with my

48:24
portfolio forgot it and got on to those

48:26
more important thanks tell you what if

48:28
you didn't write that one down then re

48:30
rewind the tap so uh Rick really

48:33
appreciate you being on and fascinating

48:36
conversation hopeful hopefully you'll

48:38
join us again in the future um I do want

48:41
to thank everyone who's watching on the

48:43
fund with anties YouTube channel and

48:44
listening on all major platforms to fund

48:46
with anties which is surprisingly one of

48:48
the fastest growing business podcasts in

48:50
the country and the reason is because I

48:52
have people on like Rick ferry so thank

48:54
my name is Stan the annuity man and I'll

48:57
see you next week

49:03
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