Pam Krueger of Wealthramp: What to Do if You're Pitched an Annuity at Work

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[Music]

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welcome to fun with annuities where

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every single week I welcome a celebrity

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guest expert that can help you maximize

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laugh and love every minute of the most

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let's get to

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[Music]

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it welcome to fun Within annuities I'm

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your host Stan the annuity man America's

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annuity agent license in all 50 states

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as you know got a great guest today Pam

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Krueger she runs wealth ramp.com just

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like it sounds w a l t h r m p.com no

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spaces pull it up um Pam welcome to the

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show thank you Stan tell us about wealth

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R give us the elevator speech and what

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people really need to know about what

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that is the uniqueness of it and why

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they should take a visit to that site I

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am struggling to get this down to 15

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seconds and I never have and we we

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launched in 2019 yeah and I still

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haven't got it down to the 15c elevator

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pitch but essentially look a lot of

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people know when they're looking for

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advice they want a fiduciary they want

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someone who's fee only because they want

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someone who works only for them not

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someone who sells insurance or sells you

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know mutual funds so people are looking

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through the names and the lists of

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fiduciary advisers and their headspins

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because there's 60,000 of them how are

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you supposed to know which ones are

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really qualified which ones are

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outstanding compared to good compared to

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mediocre compared to dangerous right

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they don't know where to go so I created

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wealth ramp in

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2019 because so many of the viewers that

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came from my money track series on PBS

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were kind of yelling at me saying Pam

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give me a name right of one of these

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fiduciary advisers who you have vetted

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and I finally finally put that together

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in 2019 and I curated a network of 230

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independent fiduciary the only advisers

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who have a constellation of different

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expertise help different people in

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different situations but they're all

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they all have one thing in common

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they're outstanding because I vet every

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single one of them myself so I'm very

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proud of the

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network and that's what I do and and

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that's the reason you're on the show I

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mean I'm all for uh people you know most

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people um even though they already own

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an annuity called Social Security that

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you know a lot of people don't need

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another one I'm the first one to say

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that even though I sell more annuities

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than anyone on the planet um from the

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standpoint of fiduciary I mean you know

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we are not that but we do work with the

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fee only planners if an annuity is

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appropriate we are the that Source

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because we represent all carriers and I

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think that the fiduciary thing has been

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played good and bad I I'm assuming

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you're going to agree with what I'm

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going to say you know you have thousands

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and thousands of fiduciaries I always

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say you know fidic means you put a

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plaque on the wall and say hey I'm a

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good guy or I'm a good gal what does

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that really mean and I think what Pam's

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brought to the table which I like is the

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filtering process of saying yeah they're

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probably pretty good person but it's

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bigger than that are they a good fee

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only advisor it's bigger than just

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hanging a plaque on the wall with the

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fword um so we're proud to work with you

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know tons of fee only advisors and in

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the annuity world you're not you

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shouldn't put any more than 50% of your

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investable assets in annuities that

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doesn't mean you have to but that's kind

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of the limit well someone's got to

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manage the money right and that's where

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Pam comes in with her filtering process

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but I know that when we talk earlier and

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we're always kind of shooting email

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messages back and forth you're one of

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your Bugaboo concerns right now which

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I'm really interested in talking about

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are a lot of the people that are

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retiring and that are that have to roll

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over their money from a accumulation

4:09
account 401K 403b 457

4:12
whatever and they're getting targeted by

4:16
annuity salespeople with a one-size

4:18
fits-all pitch I'm going to throw the

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ball back to you and let you fill in the

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blanks and then we'll we'll tell the

4:24
people what they need to know about it

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yeah here's what I've been looking at a

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lot lately um 80 % of the people who

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find me and they want a they want

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recommendations I give three

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recommendations for three advisers who

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are fiduciary who have been vetted that

4:39
fit your situation so 80% of the people

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coming to me since

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2019 are within Striking Distance of

4:50
their retirement they've got a rollover

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decision so here's what's happening and

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I've been listening to them talk to me

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they're telling me Pam here's a deal

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okay I'm ready to roll over and I am

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getting messaged five six times a week

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emails from our 401K advisor Johnny Joe

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who does lunch and learn Tuesdays

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whoever it is that shows up once in a

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while there a sales rep for whatever

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products are being offered by that 401k

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service provider it might be Fidelity it

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might be Tia it might be Voya I'm not

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making them wrong I'm not making them

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bad I'm saying that the individual are

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getting messages like this annuity

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annuity annuity that's One-Stop Solution

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One SI fits all your dreams will be

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fulfilled think no more don't even think

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about it this is what you need and I'm

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talking to the employers and I'm trying

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to really get into this space in the in

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the 401K world and really understand

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what's happening here from the

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participants point of view that 41k

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participant is coming to me and saying

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hey Pam did they not get it that I'm

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married I have a spouse a husband or a

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wife who also has a

6:07
401k that one's not with Fidelity that

6:09
one's within power and they're getting

6:11
messages over here like this which is

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conflicting with this so they come to me

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and say God dear God can I just get an

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independent right fiduciary fee only

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advisor to like what you provide Stan

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second opinion yeah on this pitch and

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that's what they're coming to me for so

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I right now I'm trying to make a big

6:35
effort to get wealth ramp closer and

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closer as a tool as a resource for

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employees who say I I think I want my

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own independent advisor and I'm not the

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girl to say you need an advisor at all

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but let's consider that at rollover time

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yeah these decisions that you're going

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to make with your rollover and what

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you're going to do is are going to

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Define your retirement lifestyle your

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ability to you know really retire

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comfortably I mean it's a harsh reality

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but you know you're within that fragile

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period And every decision that you make

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has incredible impact as Retirement

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grows closer so the last thing you want

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to do and this is my whole message we're

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going to talk about but my my whole

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message is please don't just take a one

7:23
one siiz fits-all recommendation and

7:26
being Dreamland believing that the you

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know you can hear the harp Rift and the

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little Cloud over your head yeah

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everything is just going to be perfect

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because this solves all your problems

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that is a nightmare well let me go on a

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kind of a calm vent vent rant I

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typically go on a non-comm vent rant but

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what I call this in the business of 401k

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advice is Fishbowl marketing um what

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happens is a lot of these companies will

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hire a outside vendor financial advisor

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firm one firm locally and they'll come

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in do lunch and learns and all that

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stuff

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um I just think that's horrific I really

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wish that would stop because they tend

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to start selling index annuities or

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variable annuities or something like big

8:08
high ticket commission product and it'd

8:11
be like if you went to a medical seminar

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and the doctor given the seminar

8:16
prescribe the same medication to every

8:18
single person in the room we all think

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that would be crazy and stupid and not

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ask about your specific health and your

8:24
specific situation and your heredity and

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all that stuff when these people people

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come in it's Fishbowl they got you in a

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fishbowl and you have been working you

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haven't been you know thinking about

8:36
financial uh products or advice or

8:38
planning maybe you have but even then

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you need

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to you need to seek advice and not just

8:46
from one person multiple people this is

8:48
your retirement you don't you take it

8:50
seriously and understand that annuities

8:52
regardless of the type they're commodity

8:54
products meaning that not one's better

8:56
than the other if it sounds too good to

8:58
be true it is every every single time no

9:00
exceptions and also two that you know

9:03
you should shop all carries for the

9:05
highest contractual guarantee for your

9:06
situation but some of the pitches coming

9:08
in there Pam as you know upfront bonuses

9:11
and all this stuff and I always call

9:13
upfront bonuses candy for the stupid

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okay there's there's not a there's not a

9:18
philanthropist at an annuity company or

9:20
insurance company running that company

9:21
waking up in the morning going you know

9:23
what I think I'm going to give money

9:24
away today no no no they're for-profit

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PE companies with 100 p and the dollar

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just put on your thinking cap the other

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thing I would tell you too and and I'll

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throw it back to you Pam is if the

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advisor or agent is trying to be your

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friend and trying to be chummy that's

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not your advisor I always tell advisers

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when they ask or when they have me speak

9:48
what you need to model yourself around

9:49
is a cancer doctor cancer doctors aren't

9:52
chummy they tell you you have cancer and

9:54
here's how we're going to solve it

9:57
advisors should should take should take

9:59
what they do seriously you shouldn't

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know about their golf game you shouldn't

10:03
know about their kids you shouldn't know

10:04
where they went to school they should be

10:06
solely focused on your financial advice

10:10
and that's the reason I like fee only

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advisors and there is a difference fee

10:14
based and fee only fee only means

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they're not selling products they never

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will sell product they're they're

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sitting on your side of the table which

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is why Pam is focused on that fee only

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means they can double dip I mean fee

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based means they can double dip fee only

10:28
no product fee based they can double dip

10:31
and and the double dipping is horrendous

10:34
from what I see yeah now couple couple

10:37
things so I love I made a note because I

10:40
loved what you said about you know

10:41
imagine the doctor walks into the room

10:43
and says all y'all you're gonna get this

10:46
one prescription because it's gonna fix

10:47
everything correct anything else this is

10:50
it

10:51
baby but now walk out of the room

10:54
everyone would walk out of the room but

10:55
not that imagine that the reason that

10:59
the doctor is prescribing that one

11:01
medication is because the doctor is

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making money with every single sale MH

11:06
makes so that's what's happening so look

11:09
I'm not trying to make record Keepers

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and 401K intermediaries bad people

11:13
Brokers or or insurance salesman here's

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my problem a little bit right now okay

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um they're not gonna like me saying this

11:21
but why can't you just call yourself a

11:23
sales rep like why do you have to call

11:25
yourself an adviser because you're

11:27
really not an advisor are you you're

11:29
independent an

11:31
advisor is someone who's going to take

11:33
an independent look they have no dog in

11:35
the fight they are literally focused on

11:38
you and a sales rep is going to make a

11:41
product recommendation because they

11:43
really believe if if they're if they're

11:44
good at what they do they might really

11:46
believe this product really fits you

11:48
Stan it really does so here's the issue

11:51
and here's how this plays out in the

11:52
workplace which is kind of what I wanted

11:54
to focus on uh let's say you know you

11:57
might have read about Tia C

11:59
which is arguably one of the largest

12:02
that managed like 1.3 trillion and have

12:06
like million now Tia the CR is gone Tia

12:10
um look they have a dashboard right and

12:13
they install that dashboard so that

12:15
inside the 401K plan the employees use

12:17
the dashboard they use the tool now what

12:20
they've been accused of and mind you

12:22
they have just settled in a huge lawsuit

12:26
okay so what they were accused of is

12:29
steering the

12:31
employee with this tool that's supposed

12:33
to be called an advice tool right but it

12:37
steers you surprise surprise surprise

12:42
remember Goomer pile God absolutely I am

12:44
dating myself here I watched it every

12:47
afternoon in in North Carolina as a kid

12:49
like silly show anyway the judge in the

12:54
case in this case you know found that

12:56
there was no question about it there was

12:58
enough evidence that Tia was

13:00
systematically breaching its fiduciary

13:02
responsibilities to that 401k plan and

13:05
and this is the shooting fish in a

13:06
barrel that you were talking about this

13:07
is the Fishbowl so look the plan sponsor

13:11
the

13:11
employer does not want to become you

13:15
know a uh Sales Machine for the products

13:19
that are being offered within the 401K

13:21
sometimes they

13:23
unwittingly because they don't know

13:24
about it right they don't understand it

13:27
they unwittingly everybody's relying

13:30
everyone's relying on that Record Keeper

13:32
whether it's Tia Boya EMP power Fidelity

13:35
and they're all going like this well you

13:37
know best you know best you're giving

13:40
best you're a fiduciary and that and

13:42
then this is what's happening you know

13:44
so there's so much money in the money

13:48
management business and in getting

13:50
people steering people into these

13:53
products so it's all about like just

13:57
stopping and saying am I thinking about

14:00
buying this product this annuity we call

14:03
it a product you know you it's a product

14:06
or out of fear are you that's the

14:08
question I have are you buying an

14:11
annuity out of

14:12
fear because if you are don't buy it

14:15
don't buy it buy it for the contractual

14:17
guarantees if the contractual guarantees

14:19
make sense and I always tell people

14:21
annuity soft for four things principal

14:22
protection income for Life Legacy and

14:24
long-term care that acronyms pill and we

14:27
asked two questions at the an man if you

14:29
go to my site at the annuity man.com and

14:31
schedule call they're going to ask you

14:32
two questions what do you want the money

14:34
to contractually do and when do you want

14:35
those contractual guarantees to start

14:37
keyword contractual but if you you're in

14:40
these meetings and you feel like the

14:41
person up there is a hammer looking for

14:43
nails then you're being sold you're

14:46
being pitched and the other thing Pam

14:48
that I have always questioned is you

14:52
know my company is a is the size that we

14:54
have board a board of directors and they

14:56
have a fiduciary responsibility as board

14:59
of directors to make decisions Etc the

15:03
boards of director board of directors at

15:06
these companies when they decide to

15:10
bequeth or bless a local uh firm or

15:14
national firm that those are the only

15:16
people get to come in and talk to the

15:17
employees about Investments somebody has

15:21
to explain to me how that is a fiduciary

15:24
decision on the employes behalf it's not

15:29
I mean it really is not and you boards

15:32
talk about fiduciary and all this stuff

15:33
and then all of a sudden a lot sleep

15:36
they're sleep at the switch well they're

15:37
asleep at the switch until there's

15:39
litigation from the employees saying

15:42
that you only had one person come in I'm

15:45
hoping that board board of director

15:48
members will be watching this corporate

15:50
people will be watching this and ask the

15:52
question how are we vetting this group

15:55
what are they have we ever asked them

15:58
what's the percent percentage of

15:59
annuities or package products that

16:01
they're selling to our retirees you know

16:03
have they ever done a deep dive into the

16:07
actual practice of the advice being

16:09
given to their employees my advice to

16:11
you is please do before you before

16:15
someone brings it up that you don't want

16:17
to bring up right you know and there's

16:19
probably lawyers listening to this going

16:21
wait a minute you're telling me I want

16:24
them to because the you know this is the

16:27
area that I'm starting to get involved

16:29
in um from the participant the 401K

16:32
participant employees perspective so

16:35
what so what seriously you're supposed

16:37
to have a one to two hour session with

16:41
some sales rep who calls himself or

16:44
herself an advisor who has never done

16:48
any tax planning in his entire career

16:50
has never done an estate plan has never

16:53
done any cash flow analysis never done

16:55
College Planning in case you need that

16:57
for your kids or your grandkids

16:59
and has never met your spouse but

17:04
magically you're supposed to have this

17:06
product recommendation that solves all

17:09
your problems and you shouldn't have to

17:11
worry ever again so what I'm trying to

17:14
do is bring a layer of fiduciary advice

17:19
that's independent from fee only where

17:21
they don't have anything to sell into

17:24
the workplace but not try to put it

17:26
inside the 401K plan I'm not going to

17:28
try to comp with Fidelity or or Foya or

17:31
Tia but put it outside in the parking

17:33
lot so that give the employees a damn

17:36
Choice let them decide if they want to

17:39
hire their own adviser I'm not going to

17:41
be there to say you need your own

17:42
adviser I'm there to say if you decide

17:46
you do want an advisor for you and your

17:49
spouse and you want to GL holistically

17:51
at everything I've got a solution for

17:53
you and here it is at work it's called

17:54
wealth ramp but of course those big

17:57
record Keepers and and and those

17:59
Gatekeepers they want to squish me like

18:00
the Cockroach that I am and I actually

18:05
am B able to demonstrate that I I'm

18:08
actually good for you because if you

18:10
include a choice then you won't be

18:13
accused of steering your employees in

18:15
One Direction give them a choice and

18:18
then later on when you're up against the

18:21
wall being asked to defend your sales

18:24
hardcore sales Behavior you they'll say

18:27
did you give them a choice and the

18:28
employer can say yeah we gave them a

18:30
choice they had this wealth ramp

18:32
resource that's a tool as well but it's

18:36
all about making people G giving people

18:41
the power to make their own decision and

18:44
encouraging them to do exactly what

18:46
you're always encouraging Stan which is

18:49
be a this a thoughtful decision and you

18:51
know just because the adviser is f only

18:53
and fiduciary don't think that they're

18:55
not going to recommend an annuity if

18:57
it's appropriate because it it has

19:00
nothing to do about the problem the

19:02
reason that we were on this podcast

19:05
together is that

19:06
annuities end up being the

19:08
recommendation because the commissions

19:10
are so high and the commissions are

19:12
built in you never see them which is a

19:14
whole another argument that I you know I

19:16
can make but you never see them and the

19:18
longer the surrender charge the more

19:19
complicated the product the more moving

19:21
Parts the higher the commission for the

19:23
agent the other thing couple more things

19:25
that having been in the business for

19:27
decades the Securities industry I

19:30
believe it was in 2003 don't quote me on

19:32
that but I was around back then um they

19:35
got rid of incentive trips in other

19:37
words if you sold enough of X you get to

19:39
go to Bora Bor Italy and France with

19:41
either your boyfriend girlfriend I did

19:43
that when I was 25 whatever okay that's

19:46
gone in the in the life insurance

19:48
industry that that issues annuities

19:50
that's not gone okay there's incentives

19:52
there's backend money there's soft money

19:54
Arrangements Etc but if you're a an

19:57
employee getting ready to retire or or

20:00
down just listening to this for the

20:01
future you need to contact your HR

20:05
person and say um who is do we only have

20:08
one group that's coming in here do we

20:10
have multiple groups can we get multiple

20:12
groups and then say and I need you to

20:15
get an answer from the board on why if

20:17
we don't then why don't we I think it

20:19
can be a groundup swell from the

20:22
employees that's worked so hard to

20:24
accumulate this money in a 401k 43b

20:27
457 and then hold the people the people

20:30
in your company the the management team

20:33
hold their feet to the fire to have a

20:35
very good answer on why they either have

20:39
you know multiple choices fee only

20:41
wealth ramp type choices or if they're

20:43
just giving it to the local people that

20:45
are selling annuities you might want to

20:47
remind them as an employee that you know

20:50
that's not fair to the employee you need

20:51
better choices than that and there's

20:53
some exposure there that's going to come

20:56
down the pike I'm telling you right now

20:58
it's going to because the way that

21:01
especially and we have nothing against

21:02
the index annuity space because we use

21:05
them as a delivery system for income if

21:07
you need income but that's a whole

21:09
another discussion what I don't like and

21:11
what makes my stomach turn is the one

21:13
size fits all whizbang 30,000 foot is

21:17
too good to be true approach that is

21:20
being given at these lunch and learn

21:22
seminars and the trust that is being

21:27
given to these people people because

21:29
they're buying you lunch you always tell

21:30
people swallow the food don't swallow

21:32
the pitch so I think it's important and

21:35
I think it's it can it can happen from

21:37
Pam pushing the rope from me pushing the

21:39
rope from the employees pushing the rope

21:41
from the HR people pushing the rope and

21:44
the ropes being held by the board of

21:45
directors at the end of the day they

21:47
have to step in and say this what is

21:49
really best for our employees it's just

21:52
like offering a practical solution that

21:56
allows don't don't make everybody's head

21:58
spin I mean nobody wants to go talk to

22:01
16 different advisers and then figure

22:03
out from there you know which one like

22:06
how do we know you know it's just simply

22:10
having some level of vetted advisor that

22:15
fits to be able to talk to you let's say

22:18
that somebody is saying uh somebody came

22:20
to me lately and they were saying um you

22:23
know I am getting older and I you know

22:27
I'm looking at in investing in a CAC

22:29
which is you know the qualified

22:30
longevity annuity contract of course you

22:32
know this hand um that's a deferred

22:35
annuity in that case and delays payouts

22:37
so so she was concerned about rmds so

22:40
they never sat down and looked at what

22:44
what what let's let's weigh out the pros

22:46
and the cons you know are you going to

22:49
have the return of your full investment

22:50
what if somebody dies earlier than

22:52
project it um what what about the real

22:56
benefit of delaying rmds you know you

22:59
you've gota you've gotta really work on

23:03
evaluating that whole situation before

23:05
you can make the recommendation but but

23:08
people will have a particular issue that

23:11
they need to solve for and like you said

23:14
it's always going to be that the hammer

23:17
is always the issue you know because

23:18
you're a nail and and we're a hammer and

23:20
that's all um so it's that it's just

23:24
getting louder and louder and more

23:27
people are retiring sure and over the

23:29
years this kind of selling in the

23:33
401K uh around the 401K at roll over

23:36
time is just getting louder a a very

23:39
dear friend of mine is the head of

23:41
medicine Department of Medicine at an

23:43
Ivy League school which I won't say

23:45
because everybody will know who he is

23:46
then um but Mike Mike told me um he he

23:49
said uh just I just talked to him on the

23:51
phone a couple days ago and I said are

23:52
you getting a lot of emails from you

23:54
know you about you know buying

23:57
annuities d

23:59
I'm getting literally five to six

24:03
effing emails from

24:06
Fidelity like they're so aggressive they

24:09
want me to meet with their advisor meet

24:10
with the

24:11
advisor and I I said okay I get the

24:14
picture I get the picture that wasn't

24:16
the case even 10 years ago Stan it's

24:18
just gotten to be more prevalent and the

24:22
reason because the bookkeeping

24:24
Administration side of the 401K plan

24:26
business recordkeeping which is just

24:28
bookkeeping sure is the margins have

24:31
become razor thin and these companies in

24:34
order to continue to provide that

24:36
recordkeeping service they've got money

24:38
so they've got to look to manage your

24:40
money or they've got to look for ways to

24:42
get more clients that's the bottom line

24:45
yeah I think this all comes down to the

24:48
word urgency and and people hang in

24:50
there with me because you're not going

24:51
to believe where I'm going to take

24:54
this there is no urgency okay when

24:58
you're retiring and or you're looking to

25:01
roll money there is no urgency if the

25:04
advisor or agent or salesperson whatever

25:06
they call themselves wealth architect

25:08
whatever says there's you need to do

25:11
this because the bonus the products

25:13
going away there is no urgency to buy a

25:16
contract an annuity is a contract the

25:19
other thing I want to tell you about

25:20
urgency and so if you're saying well

25:22
okay Stan that's great but what what do

25:24
I do how do I make this less urgent for

25:27
me and my spouse or me um and tell that

25:30
advisor and agent what I'm going to do

25:32
here's what you do when you retire or

25:36
thinking about retire you can what's

25:38
called roll your IRA non-t taxable event

25:42
from your 401k to a rollover Ira it's a

25:44
non- taxable then doesn't trigger any

25:46
taxes the reason I'm repeating that is I

25:48
want you to remember that okay so what I

25:51
would tell you to do is slow the game

25:54
down as they say slow it down period you

25:58
can always take your 401k 43b 457

26:01
whatever's been deferring roll it to an

26:04
IRA and a a bank can take it know and do

26:08
that and and here's get it very

26:11
thoughtfully yeah and and and tell them

26:14
tell the here's what I tell people when

26:16
you roll it to choose your bank you know

26:19
Vanguard whoever choose it tell the

26:22
person I'm going to roll this to you but

26:24
I there's something in your system that

26:25
says do not solicit I need you to put me

26:28
on a do not solicit for a year and they

26:32
will do that okay that means that the

26:34
young young buck uh agent trolling for

26:37
money market accounts they can't call

26:39
you so I didn't know that I didn't know

26:41
that you can do that so you can say put

26:43
me on that list that I'm not going to be

26:45
called because me and my wife me and my

26:48
spouse me and my husband me and my

26:50
partner need to take our time and think

26:52
about it I always tell people this make

26:55
your decision on your terms and on your

26:58
time frame not the agent advisor terms

27:00
and time frame yours and the biggest key

27:03
and really the only thing urgent about

27:06
this Pam is to make a good informed

27:08
decision that might take you a year that

27:11
might take you two years and say well I

27:12
might miss out on the markets so what

27:14
you're in Money Market you're not going

27:16
to lose money okay put it in Money

27:19
Market tell them not to call you take

27:22
your time period do not allow people to

27:27
get though well you're going to miss the

27:29
market and if you missed these five days

27:31
in the last 10 years all that's gabbage

27:33
it's about you it's not about them

27:35
chapter two is about you so on chapter

27:37
two slow the game down yeah because

27:42
because the woman who just came to me um

27:45
two weeks ago I am so disappointed that

27:48
this happened to her but she's really

27:50
embarrassed and she I mean at this point

27:53
she feels stupid and she shouldn't feel

27:54
stupid but she did fall into the Trap of

27:58
getting scared about running out of

28:00
money in retirement and and then she

28:02
just took a leap without doing any real

28:05
homework at all so you know the it's

28:08
true guaranteed income the benefit of

28:10
annuity can provide that it's true you

28:13
know payout flexibility depending upon

28:14
the type of the contract death benefits

28:17
you can have as well okay but she never

28:21
ever contemplated and took took into

28:24
consideration the fees and the expenses

28:26
that reduce her her neste the liquidity

28:30
issues you know like how much are you

28:32
really able to commit to this you know

28:35
this is annuities are in context they

28:37
have to be done made in context to all

28:40
of your other Investments or else you

28:42
know surrender charges and liquidity

28:44
issues and then finally Janet Jackson

28:47
said it best

28:49
control um I like that song well the

28:52
other thing too is is when you're you're

28:54
getting the guarantee but you're giving

28:56
up some degree of control but these are

29:00
things that she came to me with Stan

29:03
after the fact and she's oh it's too

29:04
late can I talk to one of your advisers

29:07
and I'm like oh my god well of course

29:09
but you know it's that I'm trying to

29:13
tell people and you're trying to tell

29:15
people just don't do that think just

29:17
make it a thoughtful

29:19
decision yeah it's

29:21
not Investments should not be emotional

29:24
right I mean it should be uh a pragmatic

29:27
decision

29:29
but I think what the biggest thing that

29:31
I can convey to people out there is that

29:34
from the annuity standpoint I'm stand

29:36
the annuity man for goodness sakes I'm

29:38
the first one to tell you that annuities

29:40
don't fit everyone and you might already

29:42
own too many or you might not need one

29:45
in that in addition to um you know your

29:49
Social Security which is the best

29:51
inflation annuity on the planet also

29:53
understand there's many different types

29:54
of annuities they're all customizable

29:57
you know lot lot of them are from the

29:58
standpoint of a lot of people say well

30:00
I'm never buying a nudity because when I

30:02
die a nudity company keeps the money you

30:03
know okay that's one of 40 ways to do it

30:06
the point is educate yourself that's the

30:08
reason I've done thousands of videos

30:09
written seven books on the subject we

30:11
want people to understand what's out

30:15
there and what's being pitched period

30:17
but here's I always tell people because

30:19
they they'll email and say well that I

30:21
like that I like the the podcast but you

30:23
know what else how can I protect

30:26
myself here's how you protect yourself

30:28
from the sales pitch okay if someone's

30:30
pitching you a product that sounds too

30:32
good to be true and you're literally

30:33
nudging your spouse and going we might

30:35
want to do that one Martha write down

30:38
exactly what that agent or advisor says

30:40
about that product the way you

30:42
understand it the way you heard it write

30:44
it down in detail write as many pages as

30:46
you need sign and date it flip the page

30:49
around and have them sign and date it

30:51
and own that sales pitch that pin if

30:54
they they're not telling you the full

30:56
thing that pen away thousand pounds and

30:59
if they're a sociopath you got them okay

31:02
that's what I tell people it's a

31:03
statement of understanding that you

31:06
write and you can include that in in the

31:09
application if you want you know and so

31:12
the trick part here is that these people

31:15
who uh normally you would you would they

31:17
would seek you out maybe it's like you

31:19
would say the rubber chicken dinner or

31:21
something this is that this is at work

31:23
right so you're thinking oh my God

31:25
they've helped me build my full on C

31:27
forever

31:29
they must know what's right for me

31:30
they've got all my plan data they know

31:32
how much money I have they know that

31:34
it's all about you they don't know the

31:35
spouse or anything the the message that

31:37
that I'm trying to get across today with

31:39
you is they don't know if it's right for

31:43
you that's correct there's no

31:45
suitability done and understand too that

31:47
the National Association of insurance

31:50
Commissioners

31:52
nc.com that oversees the vast majority

31:56
on the state level of annuities

31:58
they recommend no more than 50% of your

32:02
investable assets and annuities doesn't

32:03
mean you have to put it there but that's

32:05
the Max and that does not include your

32:07
house your car your guitar land any of

32:10
that it's investable assets so if if

32:14
Johnny or Joanne agent advisor saying

32:17
let's roll the whole kitten and Kaboodle

32:19
into a a

32:21
product the question if they have they

32:24
asked your investable net worth you know

32:26
are they going to fill out the

32:28
application properly to list assets

32:31
properly so the suitability person at

32:34
the receiving annuity insurance company

32:36
can properly vet if that's a product

32:39
that you should have in that proportion

32:41
there's a lot to this and like Pam

32:44
mentioned earlier in the program at my

32:46
site the annuity man.com we're the only

32:48
ones out there that are crazy enough to

32:50
have a second opinion button and that

32:53
doesn't mean we're going to try to flip

32:54
and sell you anything we're literally

32:55
going to give you a second opinion on

32:57
what they're showing you on what they're

33:00
pitching to you we have a team in place

33:02
that just does that if you can believe

33:03
that just because this happen so

33:06
frequently and we did a bunch of focus

33:08
groups and what came back is Bo we would

33:10
really like a second opinion on this so

33:12
you know of course I'm not that smart

33:15
Pim as you know and I went you know what

33:18
let's have a second opinion button

33:21
that's how that all started um but we've

33:23
really helped people and save people

33:26
yeah I mean that is aligns with your

33:28
whole philosophy sure you know you are

33:31
not just Stan the annuity man you are

33:34
Stan the let's look at your whole

33:36
picture and if and how and the right

33:40
kind of annuity because you know every

33:42
annuity type of contract like a like a

33:44
compendium you're like a walking

33:46
compendium and your whole point is that

33:48
I can help you with that second look we

33:51
can help you take a look and and have

33:53
your eyes wide open so you know that's

33:56
all this that's all this is about so it

33:59
just happens to be that there's just a

34:01
lot more noise yeah happening in the

34:05
workpl when you are getting ready to

34:07
roll over and you may not even realize

34:09
how vulnerable you are and you may not

34:12
even realize how much you have come to

34:14
rely on your employer and your 401k

34:18
advice right as being the be all and all

34:21
and I'm sorry to do the record scratch

34:23
rip across right but I've got to do it

34:26
so that you can stop and say hold on you

34:29
know this person does not know me and

34:32
you know usually even when they have

34:34
Wealth Management Solutions inside the

34:37
401K plan or the 403b sure they might

34:39
have multiple vendors and they may have

34:43
typically this one University I can

34:45
think of right off the top of my head I

34:46
won't say who it is um who has 14 they

34:51
this they brag okay they say we've got

34:53
14 Representatives that are advisors

34:57
they're sales they're sales reps but

34:59
they call them advisers for 36,000

35:03
employees okay so do the math yeah

35:07
that's that's fish and a barrel stuff

35:08
and I I people people will being

35:11
contrarians I want people to be

35:12
contrarian with me you know everybody

35:14
that sits in my office and we're based

35:15
in in Las Vegas Nevada and sell

35:17
contractual guarantees which is the

35:19
ultimate contrarian there's no risk all

35:21
of those people are licensed but they're

35:23
not on commission I mean I've I've

35:24
created a business model where you know

35:27
they are they are doing the right thing

35:30
they are judged they're judged for from

35:33
our standpoint on advice not not

35:37
commission Which flies foreign to the um

35:40
annuity industry the annuity industry

35:43
the ironic part about it Pam is you know

35:45
with 13,000 14,000 Baby Boomers hit in

35:47
age 65 every single day there is a

35:49
demographic tital wave of people looking

35:51
for contractual guarantees whether that

35:53
be principal protection or lifetime

35:55
income or whatever it is but it's just

35:58
it's the industry is has allowed things

36:02
to get a little bit out of hand from a

36:03
sales standpoint I don't really blame

36:05
the carriers because once the agent Army

36:07
is out there you can't really oversee

36:09
what they're saying you know that's the

36:12
reason you have to write down what they

36:13
say and have them sign and date it you

36:15
kind of have to protect yourself but but

36:17
hopefully we're getting through on the

36:19
fact that take in the D take in the

36:21
lunch take in the dinner take in the

36:23
information but don't fall for that only

36:27
you know but can we stop calling them

36:30
advisers yeah yeah okay my my my my pet

36:34
peeve is that it's like I used to do

36:36
this for a living okay when I was 25 26

36:38
27

36:40
28 I was called a broker back then

36:44
wasn't called an advisor okay so now

36:46
Along Came this brand new thing called

36:48
the internet and it changed everything

36:51
so suddenly everybody in the insurance

36:53
and everybody in the broker's World

36:55
become their sales reps I was a sales

36:57
rep now I'm an advisor and it's it's

37:01
just it's very misleading and I don't

37:04
understand why you're

37:07
embarrassed to call yourself a sales rep

37:10
why do you have to call yourself an

37:11
advisor or made up made up phras is like

37:14
wealth architect which drives me crazy

37:17
like what are you talking about you know

37:20
um so yeah I the transparency this hul

37:24
could be solved most most problems in

37:26
the world is is a communication problem

37:28
and a transparency problem period it's

37:31
just telling the truth um what you're

37:33
going to have to do as an ad as a uh

37:36
employee as an HR person as a border

37:39
director as someone within the company

37:42
is just make sure that happens make sure

37:45
that transparency happens it's good for

37:47
everybody it's good for the employees

37:48
it's good for the firm it's good for the

37:51
the company it's good for the board of

37:52
directors brutally factual transparency

37:56
always works works and and and demand

37:59
answers if they if you have if you're a

38:01
company that has a group that's coming

38:03
in and they've been you know to your

38:07
knowledge doing well and Everyone likes

38:10
them still ask the question what are you

38:13
selling what what's your product

38:15
breakdown per client because so if you

38:18
see a an inordinate amount of percentage

38:20
of sales going to a specific type of

38:23
annuity type product that's a huge red

38:25
flag from a fiduciary stand and of

38:28
course it's coming out of the employee

38:29
participants pocket and you know who

38:31
loses you know who loses everything the

38:33
company the plan sponsor the company who

38:36
was asleep at the switch Yeah is is

38:38
saying I'm relying on them they know

38:40
what they're doing they're fiduciaries

38:42
and so they just kind of go to sleep and

38:44
then they're the ones that get you know

38:46
knock but they're fiduciaries too and

38:48
they forget that yeah that they they

38:50
really have this huge responsibility so

38:52
do I'm kind of hoping that I'm going to

38:54
have some success in in walking

38:58
you know wealth ramp which is

38:59
independent 230 230 independent fee only

39:03
advisors rigorously vetted and monitored

39:05
right you know put it in the parking lot

39:07
so the employees can see it I'm not

39:09
saying push it I'm saying just make it

39:10
available so they have a choice so it's

39:12
not shooting fish in a barrel they have

39:14
a choice and um thankfully I had a uh

39:17
employee benefits Law Firm Wagner law

39:20
write a white paper about what I've

39:22
created for the workplace and and

39:24
they've said it adds fiduciary advice

39:26
without adding your risk to the employer

39:29
I don't want to hurt the employer no

39:31
trying to help you're helping no you're

39:32
helping them you're you are providing a

39:35
protective shield for potential

39:38
litigation if somebody buys a product

39:42
and then was asked where you shown other

39:44
things and if they answered no that's

39:46
not a good thing there's there's

39:48
exposure there from the employer side

39:50
hopefully there's some people listening

39:52
to this I'm sure there are that are

39:53
going to go wait a minute that might be

39:55
worth bringing up at the next board

39:56
meeting that might be bringing up to the

39:58
HR person that might be BR that might be

40:01
worth bringing up in the next lunch

40:03
meeting is asking that advisor can you

40:05
provide us a breakdown of the products

40:07
that you sell yeah this percentage wise

40:11
this is a very unusual environment to

40:14
make an annuity sale a very un envir it

40:18
is like being I'm at the gynecologist in

40:21
the middle of an exam and you know of

40:23
course I'm going to take whatever you

40:25
know they they're prescribing

40:28
um you're you're already there you're

40:30
already at retirement you you you have

40:31
this trust and and I'm telling you

40:34
that's that's the problem is is that

40:37
level of trust that an employee has in

40:39
their employer and they've seen that

40:42
bees can be really high in mutual funds

40:44
they've seen you know all this all these

40:47
things in the news about employees that

40:49
have sued their companies for various

40:52
breaches and fiduciary responsibility

40:54
but this one is a no-brainer and I'm I

40:57
really want to really want to get across

41:00
and so do you to the actual participant

41:02
the end user the 60y old the 65y old the

41:06
70y old you know and and their spouse

41:09
you know just exactly what you were just

41:12
saying is this is a thoughtful decision

41:15
and it it it's it really is going to

41:18
impact your lifestyle for the rest of

41:21
your life don't do it out of fear all

41:23
right Pam we're going to have some fun

41:25
it just hit me an idea that only me and

41:27
you could pull off because we're Kindred

41:29
Spirits um it's going to be called

41:31
brutally factual fiduciary tennis and

41:35
what we're going to do is we're going to

41:38
each one of us I'm going to go I'm G to

41:40
go first then you're going to go then

41:41
I'm going to go until we run out of

41:42
tennis balls and what we're going to do

41:45
is kind of wrap all of this up on some

41:47
you know we've talked a lot but let's

41:50
what are your action steps what are some

41:52
advice and we're going to go backwards

41:53
and forwards and have some fun I think

41:55
you'll probably win because your IQ is

41:56
much higher than me so here we go my

41:59
first tennis ball is and these are walk

42:02
away takeaway fun things for you for you

42:05
remember here's here's mine and I'll do

42:07
it you and we'll go back and forth go to

42:09
the lunch seminar swallow the food not

42:13
the pitch

42:16
youo

42:18
um you want

42:20
to eat the food with your eyes wide open

42:25
and you you want to know you know what's

42:27
in the food that you're eating you got

42:30
to have your eyes wide open here's mine

42:32
ask hard questions to everyone that

42:34
includes the board that includes HR and

42:36
that includes the person trying to sell

42:38
you the product

42:41
go seek out someone who doesn't have

42:46
some way of benefiting from the sale

42:50
from the product that they are

42:52
recommending let your instincts

42:55
scream I not getting an independent

42:58
opinion I need to take my time and find

43:01
the right independent opinion maybe it's

43:03
Stan because he's going to give me a

43:04
second opinion maybe it's Pam because

43:06
she's got wealth ramp but I need a

43:09
second opinion stop okay here's mine

43:13
nothing is urgent no product is urgent

43:16
no sale is urgent take your time and let

43:18
the game come to you you can always roll

43:20
over the money non-t taxable event to

43:23
roll over IRA and take as much time as

43:25
needed and tell the tell the receiving

43:28
company that you do not want to be

43:29
contacted or solicited go that's huge

43:32
because I didn't even know that

43:35
um you think they know you you've been

43:38
there a long time they're

43:40
paternalistic you known them for years

43:43
they don't know you they've never met

43:46
your spouse they don't know your kids

43:49
they don't know you have a special needs

43:52
situation or that you have stock options

43:53
or that you have real estate rental

43:56
properties they don't know

43:58
you here's one um it's a golf analogy a

44:02
mulligan is when you hit one in the lake

44:04
and you put the ball back on the te and

44:05
hit the second ball in retirement

44:07
there's not many opportunities for

44:09
Mulligans and especially in this

44:11
situation you've worked hard to

44:13
accumulate this money once again take

44:15
your time let the game come to

44:18
you I just think you're wrapping it up

44:20
here honestly I mean you know we're

44:23
gilding the Lily at this point I guess

44:25
my last one would be what I've been

44:27
saying all the way through because I see

44:29
it all the time don't buy anything out

44:34
of fear yeah okay just don't buy it out

44:37
of strength and knowledge not out of

44:39
fear last thing on my end you can close

44:41
with yours this is the last thing I'm

44:42
going to tell you just remember this you

44:44
already own an annui is called Social

44:46
Security the question is do you need

44:47
more you might not but understand that

44:49
annuities all different types are

44:52
commodity products there's not one

44:53
better than the other so if the person's

44:55
standing up there trying to sell you one

44:57
product then it's probably best for them

45:00
and not for you you should shop all

45:01
carriers and that's under the assumption

45:04
you actually need an annuity type

45:07
product final words final word is get a

45:13
dog no I no I agree I do my dog yeah I

45:18
do encourage people to take some time go

45:22
to wealth ramp.com w a l t h r m p.com

45:27
just like it sounds wealth ramp.com it's

45:29
a great site

45:32
it's and this is IC tea it looks like a

45:36
good this is per this is perryer but uh

45:40
you know um cheers cheers cheers and um

45:44
I want to thank you Pam for for being on

45:47
this isn't our last Rodeo doing this but

45:49
I want to thank every single person

45:50
that's that's given us their time to

45:53
listen to this which is very important

45:55
and if you're one of those people that

45:57
in that zone of either being pitched or

46:00
or having to make decisions um hopefully

46:03
this will be a good resource for you

46:05
hopefully Pam site at wealth ramp.com

46:07
will be a good resource for you and if

46:09
someone's pitching you annuity you can

46:11
go to the annuity man.com and get a

46:13
second opinion non salesy answer

46:16
brutally factual that can help you at

46:19
the end of the day Pam and I have been

46:20
doing this a long long time I know we

46:22
look vibrantly young but we've been

46:24
doing this a long long time and we

46:26
really

46:27
sappy want to help and we want to clean

46:30
this mess up for the consumer and that's

46:33
what we're trying to do I think the

46:34
older I get Pam is that that becomes

46:37
more of a a driving force is trying to

46:40
to flip the narrative out here and make

46:43
it a safer place not totally safe

46:45
obviously but a safer place for the

46:48
consumer I'll leave you with the final

46:50
comments yeah I mean I'll just tell you

46:51
that if you told me 10 years ago that

46:53
I'd be doing this that I would be

46:55
referring people to financial advisers I

46:58
would have said you're crazy this

47:00
industry that I want nothing to do with

47:03
but at the end of the day I've fallen in

47:05
love with doing this and I'm so proud of

47:09
the advis not myself I'm proud of the

47:12
advisors took me two years to curate

47:15
this network and you know their their

47:18
client retention rates are 98% for a

47:21
reason there you go so you know I give

47:23
my props to them and I'm just a resource

47:26
that's all you can reach out to directly

47:29
well thanks so much my name is stany

47:31
annuity man you have been watching fun

47:34
with annuities I'll see you next time

47:40
[Music]