John Lenz: The Banking Crisis & Annuities

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foreign

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with annuities where every single week I

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[Music]

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welcome to fun with annuities I'm your

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host Stan the annuity man America's

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annuity agent license and all 50 states

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this is a big one today the podcast is

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about the banking crisis it's about

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annuity companies I've been inundated

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with people saying hey Stan you need to

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cover this you need to go into worry

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don't you need to cover this so I bring

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in the top talent

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Mr John lands I call him the annuity

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architect but he's so much more than

0:59
that I mean he is he's forgotten more

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than most people in the annuity world

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have ever

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even I mean he's forgot more than they

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ever learned

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that was the line I was looking for

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but he's he's a good friend but he's

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also

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um

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very well versed in this and actually

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did some research and studied and spent

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time and all this stuff

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instead of just watching CNBC so you

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know the thing disclaimer a little bit

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is you know we're not going to mention

1:26
carrier names and we're not selling

1:28
annuities today what we are trying to do

1:30
is answer some of the common questions

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that are out there and some of the some

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of the fears

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um and we're going to provide you with

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the facts to the best of our knowledge

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um so with that being said John lens

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welcome to fun with annuities man thanks

1:47
for having me it's good to be back John

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I've heard a really interesting rumor

1:51
about Banks recently having some issues

1:54
have you heard the same thing

1:56
I have seen a couple of things uh in the

1:58
news that there are some banks seem to

2:01
be making the news lately yes yes yeah

2:04
indeed it's uh it's not 0809 in 2010 all

2:09
over again but it is definitely a little

2:11
scary that um

2:12
what 800 days or more have gone by since

2:17
there was a bank failure in the United

2:18
States and now there's been four in the

2:22
past uh not too long and a few more that

2:25
are you know scrambling right now

2:27
and we're not going to try to predict

2:29
the future I mean we're not going to sit

2:31
and go well we really think this I mean

2:33
I saw something the other day uh one of

2:35
the guys from Shark Tank I forgot who it

2:38
is it's the guy that is follicly

2:40
challenged uh Mr Wonderful like Mr

2:42
Wonderful

2:43
Wonderful said that he doesn't see you

2:48
know he doesn't ever he doesn't see the

2:50
survival of regional Banks there'll be

2:52
no Regional Banks and he's comparing

2:54
what's going to happen to us in the

2:55
future with Canada who doesn't have

2:57
Regional Banks and then Mr good dad bad

3:00
dad you're a dad I'm a dad we're all a

3:02
dad Kiyosaki comes out and just

3:05
gloom and doomed as well which you know

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forces people to call me and forces

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people to call you which leads to this

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podcast who knows if they're right they

3:14
don't know if they're right

3:16
um but let's talk about Banks first

3:20
and the fact that

3:23
all of this kind of happened

3:26
all this was a was kind of a cascading

3:28
domino effect for a second let me go

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through it real quick this is the way I

3:31
understand it John so so you know this

3:33
is my English version of it my Southern

3:35
version of it Cove had happened you you

3:38
remember that code that happened people

3:40
couldn't go to work so we printed money

3:42
we sent people money so they wouldn't

3:44
work when we sent money and we printed

3:47
money it created inflation because

3:49
inflation was created then the FED has

3:51
to raise rates to try to quell inflation

3:54
so when they did that Banks because

3:58
they're holding bonds there's a

4:00
correlation between prices and interest

4:02
rates when interest rates go up bond

4:04
prices go down so the bonds that were

4:06
held by the Banks went went down and to

4:10
cover whatever formula the banks have

4:12
for reserves Etc requirements they had

4:15
to sell those bonds which created

4:18
somewhat of a panic because we live in a

4:20
24 7 social media World which created a

4:23
run on the banks which created

4:24
confidence issues and now me and you are

4:27
here on the podcast

4:28
is that a good Southern version of what

4:30
happened I think that is yeah the uh

4:33
when when these Banks uh and again I

4:37
know we're not trying to talk about

4:38
names and Stan and I have a bet about if

4:40
the name of the bank will slip out or

4:43
not no it's not not that it's it's not

4:45
public knowledge of who they are we hope

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to see relevant only what's what's true

4:49
but right this bank had large deposits

4:51
they bought 10-year bonds to back these

4:54
deposits and then when uh the FED raised

4:57
short-term rates and inflation came out

4:58
the value of those 10-year notes dropped

5:03
significantly and then people wanted

5:05
their money out and in order to sell

5:07
them I read 1.8 billion dollar loss and

5:10
that creates a cascading effect I think

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you said it well this was a Twitter fed

5:14
bank failure where people want to draw

5:17
their money out of course that money is

5:19
Lent out it's not readily available

5:21
correct and then another one failed and

5:24
yeah it's uh but the good news is that

5:27
the federal government has truly stepped

5:30
in and come to the day and rescued us in

5:34
the short term and that's an argument

5:35
right whether

5:37
yeah

5:39
postpone the problem until later and

5:41
that was an 0809 argument as well

5:44
yeah and there's been some shotgun

5:46
weddings there was two Swiss banks that

5:48
were forced to marry

5:50
um one of them I used to work for a long

5:51
time ago and I know for a fact that that

5:54
was not amicable that was almost four

5:57
similar to 2008 when they put all the

5:59
big banks in the room and said you know

6:01
here's what we want you to do and some

6:03
banks said yeah I don't want to do that

6:04
and they said no no let me rephrase it

6:06
here's what you're going to do right

6:08
okay and the same thing happened with

6:11
the Swiss with the Swiss banks I think

6:13
my concern here and what's triggering a

6:15
lot of this with with my clients and my

6:17
listeners is

6:19
when when Miss Yellen at the time of

6:22
this taping

6:24
um head of the treasury is saying yes we

6:26
we will

6:27
guaranteed deposits over the FDIC level

6:30
and then comes back later and says yeah

6:32
but not for all banks now it gets now

6:34
gets weird possibly political what was

6:38
your take when she said that

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yeah I don't know what to think about

6:44
that either the first blush at the big

6:46
bank that was failing down in Silicon

6:48
Valley was we're going to step in and

6:52
ensure all depositors not the bank

6:54
Equity holders not the stockholders the

6:57
shareholders the bondholders of the bank

6:58
right but the depositors in the bank

7:00
even though they were over the 250

7:03
000 FDIC limit we're going to be insured

7:06
and that was just a basically to instill

7:09
confidence in the banking system I mean

7:11
it our monetary system is truly based on

7:14
confidence if I give you a hundred

7:16
dollars for some reason it's so you'll

7:18
take that money and give me something

7:19
knowing you can trade that hundred

7:21
dollars for something of value even

7:22
though it's not like gold or platinum or

7:25
silver

7:26
so the feds in my my view the fed's

7:30
stepping up saying yep we got this and I

7:32
think Warren Buffett said it really well

7:34
a couple days ago he said

7:37
we live in a society uh that where the

7:41
government is is uh supporting the

7:43
banking system as we're too big to fail

7:46
so the government has shown its

7:48
willingness to step up and support the

7:50
banks and then uh today uh Janet Yellen

7:55
said today is what the 20 something yeah

7:57
at the time this time this will come out

8:00
a week from the time we're taping so yes

8:02
so yeah a lot of things will change

8:04
between now and then but Janet Yellen

8:07
came out in support of regional Banks uh

8:09
contrary to Mr Wonderful statement and

8:12
again who knows but it's all about

8:14
confidence and the market seem to Rally

8:16
Bank stocks rallied today uh the One

8:19
bank that seems to be in a little bit of

8:21
trouble that had a 30 billion dollar

8:23
bailout from Sister Banks rallied today

8:26
so I'm fairly optimistic uh and hopeful

8:30
that yes people are worried I I

8:33
personally don't have 250 000 of cash in

8:36
any One bank for that exact reason and I

8:38
don't have a lot of 250 000 deposits

8:40
anywhere just for the record

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[Music]

8:43
um before we get into the details and

8:45
the weeds

8:46
my take on this from the southern

8:48
version and people love my southernisms

8:50
because that's kind of the way I think

8:52
you know annuity companies are buying

8:54
similar bonds I think the difference is

8:57
with the rules and correct me if I'm

8:58
wrong this is where you're going to step

9:00
in and be who you are

9:01
but the difference is the banks have to

9:05
sell them based upon a formula they have

9:07
to reach the annuity companies there's

9:08
no one at the window they really don't

9:11
have to sell is that correct

9:13
yeah I'd say that's that's correct in

9:15
large part uh the annuity companies

9:18
Reserve uh foreign annuity very

9:21
differently than a bank and if you want

9:23
to go into that explain that yeah it's

9:25
an excellent time to do it let's dig

9:27
yeah so this goes back 40 years or more

9:30
when the insurance industry led by the

9:34
National Association of insurance

9:35
Commissioners

9:38
stop there for a second every state has

9:42
has an insurance commissioner so State

9:44
Insurance Commission insurance

9:45
commissioner this is the National

9:46
Association where they make the overall

9:48
decisions for the industry for the

9:51
country but fixed annuities are issued

9:53
and approved at the state level variable

9:56
annuities are um securities

10:02
so the NAIC has an Actuarial team and

10:06
their goal is to provide stability and

10:08
strength inside the insurance industry

10:09
because talk about confidence I mean

10:11
have you heard that XYZ uh company

10:14
wasn't paying if your house burnt down

10:16
you wouldn't be buying uh fire insurance

10:19
from that house that company so the the

10:22
naic's job is to make sure that

10:24
insurance companies remain solvent so

10:27
they built formulas that were originally

10:30
based on life insurance ongoing premiums

10:33
that have evolved in from these

10:36
factor-based methodologies into

10:38
principal-based met based methodologies

10:41
right so

10:43
I'll give you a good example let's say

10:45
you send a hundred thousand dollars of

10:46
annuity money to an insurance company

10:48
and that insurance company now has to go

10:52
out and invest that money and there is a

10:56
reserve that is established by a formula

10:58
where the insurance company now has a

11:01
liability to the annuity owner of a

11:03
hundred thousand dollars and so they

11:05
have to purchase an asset for a hundred

11:07
thousand dollars and then add some

11:10
Capital over and above that to provide a

11:13
safety net and a cushion right that's

11:15
called a required Capital level right

11:19
and then we have insurance companies

11:21
that are now adding multiples of that so

11:24
a typical insurance company might have

11:26
300 400 percent of the required capital

11:30
and that is a cushion in case uh bonds

11:33
default interest rates go up

11:36
other risks there's a whole series of

11:39
contingency plans c0 through C4 and it

11:43
is super complicated and I I don't even

11:45
pretend to understand at all but I just

11:48
know that insurance companies are daily

11:50
looking at what would happen if interest

11:52
rates rose and a certain number of

11:54
people left or died or annuitized their

11:58
policies or took RMS so they're running

12:00
a stress tests all the time all the time

12:02
whereas we hear Banks let's run stress

12:05
tests on the banks and maybe they are

12:06
running them maybe they aren't I think

12:08
one of the arguments with the banks in

12:09
question here is that they weren't

12:11
running the stress test and one of

12:13
another southernism I always use is I

12:15
say I say and this might be incorrect

12:18
and if so you know step in and detail me

12:20
but I say you know annuity companies

12:22
life insurance companies that issue

12:23
annuities are not smarter than banks are

12:25
more regulated and handcuffed than Banks

12:27
I think you just kind of laid that out

12:29
the reserve requirements

12:32
in place that the NAIC is put in place

12:35
they're pretty stringent and rigid they

12:37
can't be that flexible in my opinion am

12:41
I right yeah the the insurance industry

12:44
has to take this money that they owe the

12:47
annuity policy owner that's a liability

12:49
they created they buy an asset or basket

12:52
of assets to support it typically

12:54
investment grade bonds uh mortgages and

12:58
they take those assets and they put them

13:01
out there as an offset against the

13:03
liability and then they increase that

13:06
number by a margin so that there's a

13:09
safety net and if Bonds in this

13:11
portfolio drop in value there are new uh

13:15
metrics that are run and additional

13:17
Capital has to be added to that and

13:20
there is ongoing reporting to the states

13:22
it's super regulated it is and I'm not

13:26
saying that you know annuity companies

13:27
are smarter or better or you should

13:30
choose annuities over CDs and Banks and

13:32
all that stuff I'm not saying that at

13:34
all what I'm saying is the the

13:38
the handcuffs the loving regulatory

13:41
handcuffs that's been put in place

13:43
prevents annuity companies from being

13:46
really really stupid

13:48
how's that southernism

13:51
I don't know if I'm going to go on the

13:52
record as having saying insurance

13:54
companies are aren't really really

13:55
stupid but I I don't I don't I don't

13:58
really think they are no I understand I

14:00
understand but you know where I'm headed

14:01
well what I what I hear uh from

14:05
insurance companies is they're super

14:06
conservative heavily regulated and one

14:09
of my my closest friends in the world uh

14:11
is a uh an actuary at a local company in

14:15
Eva and I that many many discussions

14:17
about these reserves and reinsurance

14:20
agreements and what happens if uh an

14:24
insurance company or it takes a high

14:26
yield Security on a lower you know a

14:28
quality debt instrument and use that as

14:31
an asset right this model says oh that's

14:35
not a class one or a class two security

14:37
it's a three four or a five right

14:39
therefore you've got to put additional

14:41
Capital aside to back that uh asset so

14:44
there's a lyrics of redundancy to try to

14:47
keep insurance companies healthy and it

14:51
really works works if you look at the

14:52
number of banks that failed in the 0809

14:55
and what the 2010 the other 500-ish

14:59
banks that failed uh during that period

15:02
a relatively small number of insurance

15:04
companies literally 120th the number in

15:07
fact the last six insurance company

15:09
failures were all hurricane related back

15:12
in our year from small companies yes sir

15:15
these are too much traffic and casually

15:16
I always say PNC companies Property and

15:19
Casualty companies go out of business

15:20
because they don't know when the

15:22
Hurricane's going to hit life insurance

15:23
companies that just sell life insurance

15:24
they're the big buildings and the logo

15:27
on the plane because they know when

15:28
we're going to die that is absolutely

15:30
true living in Florida on the beach

15:33
um you know we see these companies come

15:35
and go and every two years we're having

15:36
to change insurance companies for flood

15:39
or whatever for that reason you live on

15:42
the coast of Oregon same thing it's um

15:45
you you mentioned something to me the

15:47
other day about

15:49
risk-based Capital regulators and all

15:51
that stuff can you go into that even

15:54
more than where you've been right now

15:55
yeah I know I'm sure I'll say something

15:57
that's just completely laughable before

15:59
it's over but at the end of the day uh

16:02
this this Capital that has to be set

16:05
aside the Surplus the extra cushion uh

16:08
is based on uh the risk class of the

16:12
assets that are backing the the annuity

16:14
liability and so the insurance companies

16:17
literally uh have to grade their assets

16:20
under this NAIC rule book that and if

16:24
they have real estate it's a certain

16:25
multiplier if it's a high quality Bond

16:28
like the U.S treasury that's the very

16:30
best of all debt sure uh and if that

16:33
debt gets upgraded or downgraded they've

16:35
got to review that and then add Capital

16:37
now this is going on literally all the

16:41
time and insurance companies have to

16:42
report to the states and then there's a

16:45
headaches story at the insurance company

16:46
that has to report to the board of

16:48
directors I believe annually you know

16:50
here's our position right and uh yeah

16:53
it's really closely watched so uh yeah

16:56
every one of these uh assets that they

16:59
buy is categorized and then factored so

17:04
that the adequate amount of capital is

17:07
there to make sure the annuity policy

17:09
holder is protected there's one other

17:12
thing that's worth talking about there

17:13
too is that the insurance company has

17:16
mechanisms built into their annuity

17:18
contract to keep the customer there in

17:22
these volatile times correct so it's

17:25
it's typically a market value adjustment

17:27
or a surrender penalty if you leave

17:29
early let's go over market value

17:31
adjustment and do it and do it in the

17:33
quick and easy

17:35
explain it to a nine-year-old no offense

17:37
to nine-year-old version market value

17:39
adjustment you buy the annuity

17:42
the the interest rates go up after you

17:44
buy what is the market of value

17:45
adjustment do so the yeah if if interest

17:49
rates go up after you purchase your

17:51
annuity then the bonds that are backing

17:55
that annuity drop in value and that's

17:57
what caused the big run on the bank in

17:59
Silicon Valley

18:00
so at most insurance companies they add

18:03
a feature called a market value

18:05
adjustment which penalizes a client from

18:08
wanting to liquidate their annuity in

18:10
that environment so that helps protect

18:13
these Capital ratios right uh as uh the

18:17
liability to the policyholder goes down

18:20
so along with the insurance company's

18:23
Capital then when interest rates recover

18:25
or they get to the end of the annuity

18:27
five-year seven-year 10-year three-year

18:29
term then everything comes back to the

18:32
bottom line they buy the annuity

18:34
interest rates go up after they buy it

18:36
they want to surrender the penalty will

18:38
market value adjustments lower that

18:40
surrender charge or raise that surrender

18:43
it would increase the surrender charge

18:44
keeping the client there avoiding the

18:46
run on the bank uh so what happened at

18:49
this big bank that failed is people went

18:52
in took out huge deposits and the bank's

18:56
Investments were under water and they

18:58
just literally didn't have the money so

19:00
the uh the insurance company when you do

19:02
per you know per summer purchase is an

19:04
annuity the insurance companies got to

19:06
go out and invest that money you know

19:07
five to ten years sometimes longer sure

19:10
and if you want to leave one year later

19:12
the insurance company has to break their

19:14
deal with their investment which could

19:16
mean a suffering a loss so that's

19:18
transmitted over to the customer which

19:20
eventually strengthen the strengths and

19:23
the insurance companies balance sheet

19:25
exactly so let's let's go backwards

19:27
again let's do this let's do this so the

19:29
listener and viewer which by the way

19:31
thank you all people listen to us on all

19:33
major podcast platforms on the phone

19:35
with annuities YouTube channel so you

19:37
buy an annuity interest rates go up

19:38
after you buy it Your Surrender charge

19:40
will increase but look at that as a good

19:43
thing because it's really helping the

19:45
companies create not to prevent a run

19:48
now reverse that you buy an annuity and

19:51
interest rates go down drastically after

19:54
you purchase it then the multi the

19:57
market value adjustment is going to

19:59
lower the surrender charges and me and

20:01
you have both seen it work in the

20:02
consumer's favor where they literally

20:04
can kind of get out without penalty but

20:07
the reason that the these two levers are

20:10
in place market value adjustment MVA

20:13
okay you'll see that like on my Mica

20:16
feed you'll see MVA Okay the reason MVA

20:19
is there and surrender charges are there

20:21
is a two tools to prevent what happened

20:26
with the banks am I correct about that

20:29
agreed yes that is a big contributor to

20:31
keeping those deposits safe at the

20:33
insurance company because everybody's

20:35
interests are served if the insurance

20:38
company remains solvent

20:40
uh because that's where your deposit is

20:42
I mean they're insuring your money they

20:44
want everybody wants to have solvency

20:47
and so those two things the market value

20:50
adjustment and this render penalty uh

20:53
help protect the insurance company and

20:54
its policyholders now as you know you

20:57
can buy an annuity without a market

20:59
value adjustment that guarantees a

21:01
refund 100 of your deposit at any time

21:04
if you do that you usually give up some

21:06
interest rate because the insurance

21:08
company now has additional Capital

21:10
requirements because they have got to

21:12
reserve more heavily for that policy

21:16
and then uh as the policy comes closer

21:20
to its maturity date

21:22
then the insurance companies reserves

21:24
have to reflect the fact that it could

21:26
be fully liquid

21:28
which is the southernism of annuity

21:31
companies will give you what you want

21:32
they just won't give it away

21:35
I mean they they really want they're

21:37
they're going to price it in and and and

21:40
hedge the risk as you're describing but

21:43
for the person out there that's kind of

21:45
running in their head

21:46
you know

21:48
I'm not sure you can make a direct

21:49
correlation to what's happening with the

21:52
banks and with life insurance companies

21:54
issuing annuities but let's try to no

21:57
let me I'll make one that's that's very

21:59
straightforward uh if we look at the

22:02
issue down in California with the big

22:04
bang

22:05
uh the depositors could withdraw their

22:09
money allegedly at any time and did

22:11
attempt to

22:12
but the bank had gone out and bought

22:14
10-year treasuries right those notes had

22:18
declined in value some of them as much

22:21
as 15 or 20 percent so now the bank

22:25
doesn't have enough Capital to take care

22:28
of that problem so they did what I would

22:31
consider uh a mismatch of asset

22:35
liabilities they had a liability the

22:37
liquid that was liquid and they

22:39
purchased an asset that was illiquid

22:42
insurance companies can't do that they

22:44
have to do this asset liability matching

22:47
where if they've got a five-year

22:48
surrender penalty on the annuity then

22:51
they need to have a basket of assets

22:53
that's going to be maturing in five

22:55
years so that they can be fully liquid

22:57
and distribute to the customer now the

22:59
insurance companies are also able to use

23:01
formulas knowing that not everybody's

23:03
going to leave all at the same time

23:05
but if you're if your policy is with an

23:07
insurance company and it's fully liquid

23:09
and can leave at any time it's probably

23:11
going to have a relatively low interest

23:13
rate because it can leave at any time

23:17
and and obviously you know people do

23:19
move around

23:21
um one other safeguard that I think is

23:23
really relevant here is it was reported

23:25
in the press that some of the

23:28
policy policyholders the account holders

23:30
at some of these big banks that have had

23:31
trouble were withdrawing millions of

23:34
dollars tens of millions of dollars 50

23:36
million dollars right that doesn't

23:38
happen at an insurance company because

23:40
as you know when one of your uh fans

23:42
calls up and says Stan I want to do a

23:44
two million dollar annuity you've got to

23:46
say you know most of our companies want

23:48
to do one million dollar maximum I was

23:50
just going to bring that up yeah we

23:51
never have somebody coming on say I want

23:53
my 100 million out now and that's

23:55
purposeful by the insurance company they

23:57
don't want to have that big

23:59
disintermediation risk so they limit it

24:02
uh you know average annuity size just

24:04
over a hundred thousand dollars so if

24:06
somebody calls up and wants their money

24:08
it's no big deal because the insurance

24:10
companies are buying Securities that are

24:12
liquid and they're excuse me they're

24:14
marketable salable uh in the bond market

24:18
uh and the mortgage market so yeah it's

24:20
a it's a much more

24:22
I should say regulate it very heavily

24:25
capitalized business absolutely and and

24:27
a lot of the big clients that I have

24:29
will say well I want to put

24:31
you know multiple Millions into one

24:33
carry and I'm saying they're not going

24:35
to take it and they're like they won't

24:36
take my money no I mean they if you go

24:39
to my Mica feed you'll see you know some

24:41
companies will allow you to put up to a

24:43
million or up to 3 million

24:46
but there are limitations some of them

24:48
will say just up to 500 000. they're

24:50
trying what they're doing is get is they

24:53
know how they can guarantee

24:55
the contractual interest rate to you but

24:58
they also know how much money they need

25:00
to bring in and once they bring that in

25:02
as we call capacity then they'll ratchet

25:05
down those guarantees whereas a bank

25:07
it's some I don't want to I don't want

25:09
to use the word free-for-all but I can't

25:11
come up with a better word other than

25:13
there aren't those limitations of the

25:16
only limitations are consumer driven

25:18
knowing FDIC limits or sipc that's the

25:23
Securities industry limits and and going

25:25
up into that limit but that's voluntary

25:27
to the consumer

25:29
yeah I I really don't know much about

25:31
Bank preserves uh I spent quite a bit of

25:34
time with people in the insurance

25:36
industry talking about reserves and

25:37
risk-based capital and the requirements

25:39
and uh I own annuities I know you do and

25:44
uh I feel very comfortable today uh with

25:47
those annuity contracts

25:49
um I guess the other thing we didn't

25:50
really talk about yet was that you know

25:53
annuities as you know are not FDIC

25:55
insured no they're not but each state

25:58
has uh and most of them follow the NAIC

26:02
model act for a state guarantee fund

26:05
that's covered for a second let me give

26:07
you that website for the listeners and

26:09
viewers that is

26:12
n-o-l-h-ga.com n o l h g

26:18
a.com if you want to go and look

26:20
yourself and pull your state and and I

26:22
would encourage you to if you really

26:24
want to dig in just go to the faq's

26:26
frequently asked questions and right

26:27
there you're going to see coverage and

26:29
the rule tools and some of it it's hard

26:31
to decipher but

26:33
um the I think one thing to point out

26:35
before we go back into the state

26:36
guarantee funds is you cannot use a

26:39
state guarantee fund guarantee

26:41
as part of a sales presentation okay

26:44
right meaning that the industry really

26:47
wants you to base your decision on the

26:49
claims paying ability of the carrier

26:53
um so let's go back to to the the state

26:56
guarantee fund so the state guarantee

26:57
fund was an attempt by the insurance

26:59
industry to create uh again additional

27:03
layer of security for the policyholder

27:06
so if there is some unusual catastrophic

27:08
event you have a an insurance company uh

27:12
their Capital ratio drops to the point

27:14
where they no longer have uh 100 of the

27:18
required this excess capital and surplus

27:21
and they still have their underlying

27:22
Investments backing it but now they

27:24
don't have the extra layer it's not

27:26
thick enough then the insurance

27:28
commissioner of that state can order

27:30
that into a rehabilitation and try to

27:32
strengthen the company so uh in the

27:36
event that there is a failure which

27:38
would be where a company let's say had a

27:40
billion dollars that they owed and they

27:42
had less than a billion dollars in the

27:43
kitty then the State Insurance pools

27:45
guarantee associations uh will pick up

27:48
the uh up to 250 000 dollars uh

27:52
annuities and these are again fixing

27:54
index annuities

27:56
and in some states some states are

27:58
higher some states yeah that's a good

27:59
point yeah

28:00
they're different yeah they're they're

28:02
all different so go and you know go to

28:05
nolhga.com go to FAQs pull up your state

28:08
and you'll see it but again I tell

28:12
people all the time please do not

28:13
correlate

28:14
State guarantee funds with FDIC please F

28:17
meets Federal f means they can freaking

28:20
tax us and confiscate the money to come

28:22
up with it which or print it which might

28:25
be where we're headed with this

28:28
um

28:29
I know that you're you've got your ear

28:31
to the uh to the ground of the annuity

28:34
industry what what are the Whispers

28:36
without mentioning names and companies

28:38
what are you hearing out here during

28:40
this time period in in the annuity

28:43
industry well this has been uh the past

28:47
six months the craziest time maybe since

28:50
the 0809 uh voice meltdown ever as you

28:54
know you cannot even keep up with your

28:56
inbound email and phone calls uh and and

28:59
neither can we this right this interest

29:02
rate environment where the 10-year

29:04
treasury is you know been up over four

29:06
for a little bit and closer to 350 today

29:09
has pushed annuities into that three to

29:12
five to seven to ten year space at five

29:15
and better yep and that has created a

29:18
tremendous opportunity for people to

29:19
lock in a competitive interest rate

29:21
that's guaranteed and safe and tax

29:23
deferred so uh companies are just

29:28
gulping down the business and it it's

29:31
created tremendous strain on the

29:33
insurance company's Workforce now as you

29:36
mentioned covet earlier yeah uh people

29:38
went remote that turns out to be a

29:40
little less efficient uh a lot of people

29:43
quit working and uh you know companies

29:46
were busy anyway well now all of a

29:47
sudden they're getting

29:48
two three four five times as much

29:51
business in the door in any given day

29:52
they literally can't process and we've

29:54
seen really great companies with high

29:57
ratings be weeks or sometimes even

29:59
months behind right processing and

30:01
issuing the business right and there's a

30:04
lot of transferring of money going on I

30:06
mean it's not like anybody creates any

30:08
money themselves at any given day other

30:10
than what they earn right but there's a

30:12
100 Grand movement from company a to

30:14
Company B and from a bank to an

30:16
insurance company insurance company to

30:17
brokerage and

30:19
Etc so super busy time for insurance

30:22
companies and a healthy time and that

30:24
they're able to purchase these assets

30:26
that have a good yield on them

30:29
and it's definitely going to be good

30:31
news I think long term for the life

30:33
insurance industry tell me what you

30:35
think the what is what are the internal

30:37
reactions to this type of banking news

30:40
because for the people out there that

30:42
correlate Banks and insurance companies

30:44
and brokerage terms all in one category

30:46
they're really not but they in their

30:48
minds there are what's the annuity

30:50
industry do you think they'll be changes

30:52
to either how they communicate the

30:55
safety of these companies or do the you

30:58
think they'll be even more requirements

31:01
to be safe because in essence as I tell

31:03
everybody

31:04
annuities you know all different types

31:08
um they're confidence products

31:10
and you know we're finding out that

31:12
banks are confidence products as well

31:14
you know and if people lose confidence

31:16
then it's game over and that's the

31:18
reason I think the regional Banks right

31:20
now having a hard time for that but do

31:22
you see

31:23
changes whether announced or unannounced

31:26
happening

31:28
do you predict that I'm not sure other

31:30
than my I'm confident in the process

31:33
that it's always being

31:35
uh Revisited and with an eye to creating

31:40
additional safety and regulation but

31:43
it's a combination of Regulation at the

31:46
state level where insurance companies

31:48
are regulated and the industry's own

31:51
desire to remain super strong and have

31:53
this reputation that yeah my money is

31:56
safe there the industry cannot lose that

32:00
or All Is Lost yeah and so there's

32:04
there's definitely a feeling of

32:06
Brotherhood and Sisterhood in the

32:07
insurance industry that everyone wants

32:09
to see everybody strong

32:11
uh so yeah I I taught again the actual

32:15
friends I talk to they are constantly

32:17
doing stress tests what if rates go up

32:19
again you know uh that sort of thing and

32:22
of course we just went through covet and

32:24
we're life insurance companies had a

32:26
tremendous amount of excess death during

32:28
the last couple of years you know

32:30
certainly a million extra deaths and a

32:32
lot of those people were insured so

32:34
those kinds of uh that was an unexpected

32:37
event right uh pandemic is a new word uh

32:41
but it tested the insurance company

32:45
um other issues that I see insurance

32:46
companies dealing with are issues of

32:49
pricing uh long-term care insurance

32:51
comes to mind where the insurance

32:53
industry price long-term care assuming

32:55
they'd get a certain return on their

32:57
Investments and of course rates went

32:59
down and they assumed a certain number

33:01
of policies would elapsed the lapse

33:04
ratio was far less and so long-term care

33:06
prices have had to go way up and one

33:09
company uh failed in all that and it's

33:12
being run by the National Association of

33:14
insurance Commissioners and claims are

33:16
being you know premiums are being paid

33:18
there claims are being paid out so this

33:21
system you know has had some failures in

33:23
the past 40 years all of them are being

33:26
managed and it seems pretty healthy to

33:28
me

33:29
yeah I think that the foundation in

33:32
place with life insurance companies that

33:34
issue annuities are is very very strong

33:37
and I would think something like this is

33:39
going to make it even stronger because

33:41
there's there's a call for transparency

33:45
you know the reason we're doing this

33:47
podcast is I get inundated with hundreds

33:50
of emails and calls and saying when are

33:52
you going to address this when are you

33:53
going to do a video on this when are you

33:54
going to do a podcast on this because

33:56
they want they want to know what the

33:58
real situation is both good and bad

34:01
let's let's maybe try to talk about some

34:04
bad with annuity I mean annuity

34:06
companies life insurance companies

34:07
nothing Nobody's Perfect

34:09
what's the exposure here in your mind

34:12
with life insurance companies and

34:14
annuities because we can't just sit here

34:16
and be because I'm not a homer yeah yeah

34:19
no I mean what do you think a bad

34:22
pandemic one that killed a lot more

34:24
people than than uh SARS Cove too did I

34:27
mean that's something that uh it

34:29
certainly has happened historically

34:30
throughout the planet that could happen

34:33
again uh so the industry again when if

34:36
you buy a million dollar life insurance

34:37
policy from somebody some insurance

34:39
company it's likely that nine hundred

34:42
thousand ninety percent of that million

34:44
has been reinsured with other insurance

34:46
companies uh so that we don't have

34:50
catastrophic losses in one spot uh what

34:53
else could happen in runaway inflation

34:56
really spiking interest rates fed steps

34:59
in steps in can't stop it like 15

35:02
minutes right 12. bonds drop in value

35:05
things are again they are being stress

35:08
tests every day uh there's I suppose

35:11
there's always a fraud issue where

35:14
something happens uh an economic

35:17
Calamity where the bonds that the

35:19
insurance companies hold default so

35:22
something really really drastic as I

35:25
always say if it gets that drastic we're

35:27
in the grocery store fighting for bread

35:28
and it's not the good bread it's the

35:30
cheap you know Bunny Bunny Bread you

35:32
know stuff which is good with a tomato

35:33
sandwich but that's a whole other story

35:35
yeah I didn't get asked a question like

35:36
that sorry to interrupt someone asked me

35:38
what if a meteorite hit the planet and

35:40
everyone died

35:43
are you worried about getting paid on

35:45
that day yeah yeah let me let me call

35:47
the uh annuity company for you you said

35:49
you said a word and I don't know if it's

35:51
it's in this category but I want to

35:53
address it since I have the brains on

35:55
the line uh reinsurance can you explain

35:59
to the people listening and viewing

36:02
reinsurance how annuity companies go do

36:05
that and why they do that and if

36:08
that could be an issue with what's

36:11
happening

36:13
yeah reinsurance is is a bit of a

36:15
complicated transaction where an

36:17
insurance company will take part of

36:19
their liabilities and transfer those to

36:22
another company this this happens

36:24
routinely blocks of annuities are sold

36:27
there was a 30 billion dollar block of

36:30
annuity business recently sold from a

36:32
household name uh to another a few years

36:35
ago when a big company took all their

36:38
annuity business and turned it into an

36:39
IPO that became a publicly traded

36:41
company I guess the most important thing

36:44
is that the company that issues the

36:46
policy is still on the hook even if they

36:49
reinsure it at the end of the day ABC

36:52
company issued your policy they may

36:54
reinsure it uh but the claims got to be

36:57
paid by that company so I guess that's

36:59
another risk because there's a

37:00
reinsurance problem uh at some point I

37:03
mean life is full of uncertainties right

37:04
I mean there's only so much that you can

37:07
do but yes reinsurance the concept is to

37:10
take some of your uh

37:13
liabilities and spread that risk so that

37:16
you're just bigger than you look

37:18
so to quote a great movie that we all

37:22
love Dumb and Dumber it's like triple

37:23
stamping and double stamp

37:25
whatever that means yeah I think there's

37:28
seat belt and suspenders Belton

37:30
suspenders baby yeah just making sure

37:31
the pants don't fall down

37:34
um

37:35
do you believe in the annuity I I coined

37:38
a phrase called the annuity Mafia and

37:40
the annuity Mafia is is what I call the

37:43
the big companies ever seen the small

37:44
companies so the Golden Goose of

37:46
confidence will not go away

37:48
we've seen that kind of come into play

37:50
in recent times where companies were

37:53
absorbed by smaller lower rated

37:56
companies absorbed by the state

37:57
guarantee Fund in the state and then

38:00
companies coming in and swooping in

38:02
buying up all the guarantees so that you

38:05
know the little lady my my mother uh is

38:08
not gonna you know get on the news and

38:10
go they took all my money I mean that's

38:13
the last thing they want do you believe

38:14
that that is kind of you you talked

38:16
about it in a Brotherhood and Sisterhood

38:18
way I like annuity Mafia because it just

38:21
the connotations are are better but do

38:24
you believe that's in place especially

38:25
in these times sure yeah I think that we

38:30
see that in the banking space uh what

38:32
went on in Switzerland as you know two

38:34
Fierce competitors and one now uh owns

38:38
the other and that's again helping

38:40
restore confidence in the overall system

38:42
that we will take care of each other

38:45
and yeah there's definitely uh before an

38:49
annuity company went completely upside

38:51
down and didn't pay claims out there'd

38:54
certainly be some efforts uh to try to

38:57
absorb that business and that's happened

38:58
over and over and over I mean those of

39:01
you out there that have owned an annuity

39:02
for 10 or 20 or 30 years probably seen

39:05
the name change on it a couple of times

39:06
but what you haven't seen is the

39:08
underlying guarantees change

39:10
and I think that's good you know with

39:12
with clients and people out there

39:13
looking at annuities and they're finally

39:15
figuring out that the word annuity is

39:16
all is not all encompassing there's many

39:18
different types

39:20
people still seem to gravitate towards

39:23
splitting

39:25
annuity purchases underneath that state

39:29
guarantee fund level agreed yeah do you

39:33
some

39:35
all the time that

39:36
listen to your gut feeling Instinct

39:38
because that's what you it's your money

39:39
and you sh and I respect that

39:41
but with some of the big double A Plus

39:44
carries we're not going to mention names

39:45
A plus whatever

39:48
do you think that's being belts and

39:50
suspenders or do you just think hey it's

39:52
okay if you want to split it up what's

39:54
your thought on that

39:55
to each his own uh today the the

40:00
strongest a double plus Triple A type

40:04
insurance companies

40:06
don't have to pay the highest rate to

40:08
get the business in the door it was

40:10
lower rated companies that have to put

40:12
out a little more interest to collect

40:14
the premium yeah and there's an argument

40:16
about whether that you know brings more

40:19
risk on or not I mean that's not really

40:21
a good topic for today probably but uh

40:23
yeah whether or not you'd put let's say

40:26
you get one million you put all of that

40:28
with the biggest Mattis insurance

40:30
company on the planet or you'd spread it

40:33
out amongst four smaller companies and

40:35
250 000 chunks which one of those is

40:38
more secure

40:40
um because four of them would have full

40:41
State guarantee coverage

40:43
and one of them would be covered by

40:46
somebody that could buy Most states so

40:49
it's just it's a really good question

40:51
and remember the FDIC and the insurance

40:54
guarantee associations are for these

40:57
non-systemic isolated Problem Child

41:01
children

41:03
um if all the banks in the in the world

41:05
fail and all of the insurance companies

41:07
failed then you're right we're fighting

41:08
for the leftover bread and no one no

41:11
insurance company and no bank has enough

41:13
money to protect 100 of everything right

41:15
I mean imagine uh if your car insurance

41:18
company had to have uh the full value of

41:22
everything they insured in cash in there

41:23
it's just not enough money

41:27
explain tail risk with annuities

41:30
tail risk yeah that's familiar with that

41:34
I'm not sure I understand your question

41:36
well the tail risk to me is is income

41:40
Riders attached to variables or index

41:42
annuities and and that money growing at

41:46
a monopoly money type level and it can

41:49
only be used for income sure

41:52
yeah I know I understand that okay so

41:55
tail risk with that if everyone turned

41:57
on the income Rider those type of I

41:59
think those are the type of questions

42:00
that are going to start popping up

42:02
that the industry is going to need to

42:04
answer we're just going to answer it for

42:06
them I I think of that as as longevity

42:09
risk yeah where uh I've heard it

42:13
describe your way when I think of tail

42:14
risk I think of uh professional errors

42:17
and omissions risk when you're out of

42:19
your practice but yeah insurance

42:21
companies uh in the earliest annuities

42:24
they were payments that stretched out

42:25
over a period of years or for your

42:27
lifetime sure so there's this risk that

42:29
people are going to live longer and

42:31
collect more money

42:33
uh and so some of the uh uh the features

42:36
these writers that were developed first

42:38
on variable annuities and now uh heavily

42:41
on indexed annuities provide a lifetime

42:44
guaranteed withdrawal benefit and that

42:47
there's there's a question you know is

42:49
that pose a risk to the insurance

42:50
company well the insurance companies

42:52
when they first saw those the NAIC acted

42:55
on that and said yep you've got to

42:57
include that in your in your uh metrics

42:59
for how much Capital you have to set

43:01
aside for that liability right and uh

43:04
that gets adjusted based on mortality

43:06
tables interest rates and whatnot so

43:10
again there is an issue you mentioned

43:12
something about you know they assume

43:14
some people will not turn that right or

43:16
on and it will lapse so uh that's a

43:19
whole other discussion about lapse

43:21
supported pricing I know if that's

43:23
really appropriate

43:25
it's still part of the stress testing

43:28
you're talking about there's stress

43:30
testing those income riders for x amount

43:34
of percentage turn them on etc etc etc

43:36
yeah

43:38
um

43:39
I just I just find that part fascinating

43:41
because just in the last what's 15 years

43:44
have those income Riders really become

43:47
um popular I'm sure that's I'm in the

43:50
range they're having just an old dude

43:52
doing this I mean you're not old you're

43:55
young but I'm old and so you know that's

43:57
one of the things also I think people

43:59
are going to look at you know because

44:01
State guarantee funds getting back to

44:03
that do not

44:05
cover income writer valuations they

44:08
cover accumulation values

44:11
correct yeah that's a that's a topic

44:14
that uh is being discussed right now

44:16
there's a difference between an

44:18
annuitization of a lump sum and then the

44:22
ongoing will keep paying you even if

44:24
your lump sum is gone so the way I

44:26
understand and interpret it is that

44:28
you've got a quarter million dollars of

44:30
protection whether that's cash value or

44:33
the present value of your annuity

44:35
guaranteed annuity payments got it so

44:37
that's again why I think if you're with

44:40
a company that's you know of average

44:41
strength and quality that that 250 000

44:44
number that Rings my bell personally but

44:49
if I thought things really were super

44:51
ugly I would lean towards personally

44:54
having my money with a triple A rated

44:56
100 Comm decks uh and that's where we

45:00
see I mean as you know you get a call

45:02
and someone says Stan I want a one

45:04
million dollar five-year Mica you know

45:06
where that's going most of the time

45:08
correct well that's one of the biggest

45:09
baddest Insurance Company that's

45:12
absolutely correct especially if they

45:13
just want to do I just want to do one

45:15
carrier yeah okay

45:18
um

45:20
what else I had some other things I've

45:22
got you speak while I'm thinking John

45:23
speak well no no I don't want to

45:26
interrupt that for a second

45:31
um

45:33
I'm not concerned about the annuity

45:35
industry but I am concerned about the

45:38
banks and I am seeing people frozen over

45:41
what's happening because they don't

45:43
understand it uh with the banks

45:47
um do you do you see I mean they have to

45:50
the banking industry has to look at the

45:53
annuity industry

45:55
and say can we do something similar or

45:58
can we protect it better or is it always

46:01
going to be like this free-for-all where

46:03
you know every seven to ten years we're

46:06
going to have kind of these situations

46:09
let me insult my my uh spinner so that

46:13
I'll I'll be able to flip a coin yeah

46:14
just try to think logically if I'm if

46:16
I'm in the banking industry you know and

46:19
and because it sounds like to me and

46:20
you've been doing this and for a long

46:22
long time like I have but you're on the

46:23
on the smart side of it

46:26
um you know annuities and life insurance

46:28
companies because the regulations seems

46:31
to be in this mode this pre-strip this

46:34
stress testing mode before the stress

46:37
test is needed

46:38
whereas now we're talking about well we

46:40
need distress test and you're saying

46:42
well annuities companies already do that

46:44
because they don't have to and thanks

46:46
for stress testing too I think there was

46:48
just some reduction in the level of

46:50
these systemically important Banks and

46:52
you know they've raised the limit before

46:54
they had to do bigger stress tests but

46:56
insurance companies are definitely

46:58
testing all the time and remember most

47:01
insurance companies are owned by

47:03
stakeholders and shareholders and

47:04
stockholders they are demanding this

47:08
safety and the strength of this

47:09
insurance company because it draw drives

47:12
up the the equity uh value of the of the

47:15
Securities the companies on the ropes

47:17
you know and I often look at this how a

47:19
certain Company's stock is trading uh

47:22
whether a bank or an insurance company

47:24
to see you know just overall consumer

47:26
confidence and there are Market analysts

47:28
that are 100 times smarter than I am

47:30
looking at these

47:31
um the cash flow metrics of the bank or

47:34
the insurance company saying yeah this

47:35
is going to make it and uh so yeah this

47:39
is there is definitely a lot of worrying

47:42
going on in the financial services

47:44
industry and the banking and the and the

47:47
annuity industry to make sure that the

47:49
institutions are strong and stay strong

47:51
and and exude confidence because that's

47:54
what it's about

47:56
what do you you work with a lot of um

47:59
large companies that have distribution

48:01
networks for annuities what are they

48:04
telling you that they're hearing from

48:06
the field and concerns from Agents

48:08
obviously me and you communicate a lot

48:10
and I'm I'm the Unicorn agent out here

48:12
that does things a little bit

48:14
differently but what are the typical

48:16
what's the typical local agent that

48:18
sells 30 miles from their home saying

48:20
what are you hearing your your contacts

48:22
say uh immediately before logging on

48:26
with you I was talking to a friend of

48:27
mine who's here in Portland Oregon who

48:29
walked in with a a check for 250 000

48:32
which represented as most of This

48:34
Woman's bank deposit she had an account

48:37
at a Regional Bank that was over 250 and

48:41
she said I want a strong annuity company

48:43
for this money and a five-year rate and

48:46
Banks insurance companies and their CD

48:48
rates are often pretty similar

48:50
and this person just believed that she'd

48:54
be better off with some of the bank and

48:55
some in an annuity a strong company so

48:58
this this uh what everybody's hoping

49:00
Stan is that there's not a contagion and

49:03
that this thing doesn't get legs and uh

49:06
certainly there are people up late at

49:07
night uh working on contingency plans to

49:12
um backstop uh the banking industry I

49:16
I'm super happy when I read stuff uh in

49:20
the press that big smart wealthy people

49:23
are saying they have a high degree of

49:25
confidence that the government's going

49:26
to step in and I mean if we just watch

49:29
what happened during covet oh my gosh

49:30
money was flowing everywhere from the

49:32
government but we can't print it by the

49:34
way I remember because my brain is like

49:36
a steel trap as you know John

49:39
or is it like a fur trap I go with the

49:41
steel trap sure I go with the steel trap

49:43
um there's some annuity companies that

49:46
are being purchased by by foreign entity

49:49
companies foreign owned companies and

49:52
there's been you know I I occasionally

49:54
get the question because you know my

49:56
clients will go and do the research

49:58
because

49:59
you know we're just not high pressure we

50:01
just give the information and have the

50:03
conversation and they'll come back and

50:04
say wait a minute this company was

50:06
purchased by X company that's not based

50:09
here in the United States

50:12
explain how that works because the way

50:14
that I understand it and explain it in

50:16
southern English is that they might be

50:19
from another place but they got to act

50:20
like us when we get when they get here

50:22
right maybe that's yeah I should just

50:24
show that let that set but uh yeah

50:28
there's there's four or five really good

50:30
examples where uh large Japanese

50:33
insurance companies Mutual companies I

50:36
believe all or mostly have purchased

50:38
really good uh us companies including

50:42
one right here in Portland Oregon one up

50:44
in Seattle area Midwest

50:47
and this this companies were owned by

50:50
their publicly traded companies so I own

50:52
shares of some of them and now there is

50:55
a large Japanese company owning it and I

50:57
had a million not million calls but a

50:59
lot of calls John what do you think of

51:00
this oh I'm worried about this I was

51:02
thrilled the Japanese culture and their

51:05
their financial sectors very very

51:08
long-term thinking yes whereas Wall

51:10
Street is quarter by quarter and there

51:12
was I knew people that were in the in

51:14
the insurance industry trying to prepare

51:17
quarterly reports for shareholders and

51:19
analysts pressure right a little less

51:22
pressure when somebody's thinking about

51:24
creating a 100 year plan for the for the

51:27
company

51:28
uh that said there was a large uh uh

51:32
long-term care insurance company that

51:35
had a buyout offer from a Chinese

51:37
company

51:39
and there was a tremendous amount of

51:40
resistance for that because the

51:41
relationship between the United States

51:43
and Japan is super friendly and were

51:46
allies in the U.S and China you know

51:48
there's obviously a little more tension

51:50
there sure so yeah that that did not

51:53
happen by the way but uh yeah it so back

51:57
to your statement just because a

51:59
Japanese owner uh daiichi or Sumitomo uh

52:04
or Meiji asuda owns a life insurance

52:07
company in the United States that

52:09
company still domiciled here in Oregon

52:12
it has to meet all the organ metrics for

52:16
the space Capital asset liability

52:18
matching all these safety nets we've

52:21
been talking about and only the normal

52:23
profits of the insurance company uh are

52:25
upstreamed to its parent instead of paid

52:28
out to the shareholders so I am not

52:30
concerned about that so and that's going

52:32
to happen more and more I think I think

52:34
people just need to understand they're

52:36
going to come over here and we're going

52:37
to force them to speak Financial English

52:41
on how we do it and the regulations are

52:43
not going to change just because a

52:45
foreign company comes and buys something

52:47
here in the they then have to go and act

52:51
just like other annuity companies well I

52:54
think there's also worth mentioning uh

52:57
that insurance didn't start here right I

52:59
mean Lloyd's in fact it might actually

53:01
be in London and the Europeans are big

53:05
Insurance uh buyers and lost huge

53:09
reinsurance companies in Germany

53:11
Switzerland France I believe at one time

53:13
AXA was the largest and it's out of

53:15
France it was the largest church holding

53:18
company on the planet uh so yeah the

53:21
Europeans I think uh tremendous

53:23
insurance people certainly the Japanese

53:25
are and I don't know much about uh and

53:28
if you don't believe that they want a

53:29
really good read Moshe moleski's new

53:31
book on tan teams ton times however you

53:33
want to pronounce it he goes back and

53:35
has has lived in the The Gutter of the

53:39
libraries in Europe researching how life

53:42
insurance and annuities were first

53:43
introduced over there so it's

53:45
fascinating just how it all came about

53:48
Johnny Lynn's obviously you're one of my

53:51
favorite people on the planet and I

53:53
don't have that many in which you're one

53:55
of them but as we always do with the

53:57
podcast is we do the mic drop moment I

54:00
count you down 54321 and then you are

54:02
going to wow us

54:04
with yeah you really are you're going to

54:06
wow us with something that the listener

54:09
is going to say then I'm going to come

54:11
back comment on it and close us out but

54:13
people wait all show for this so no

54:15
pressure whatsoever

54:17
on that so just to make this clear I'm

54:20
supposed to come up with something new

54:21
that I haven't already said and it's a

54:24
very succinct way that's that makes you

54:27
look even better than you already do you

54:29
ready

54:33
You Gotta Give me a 10 count because

54:36
this is this was not interested because

54:38
I'll give you a 10 count because I'll

54:40
give the southern version of it you know

54:42
I always say you can't polish a turd but

54:44
you can roll it in glitter never forget

54:46
that John never forget that that might

54:49
be a that might be a song you hear down

54:51
the road by some crazy band if they ever

54:53
hear this podcast all right here we go

54:55
and five

54:57
four three two one mic drop moment the

55:01
annuity architect himself John lens go

55:04
someday I'm going to stand on a stage

55:07
and introduce someone who's is uh with

55:10
me on this podcast

55:12
famous innovators on the planet no and

55:16
to a live audience in Vegas

55:20
oh my gosh that's horrific you're

55:22
supposed to say something like live life

55:25
to the fullest because you could die

55:27
tomorrow you know Every Breath You Take

55:29
should be a deep one and all of your

55:31
thoughts should be deep as well that's

55:32
the kind of crap that I was looking for

55:35
then I will say that uh when I buy an

55:38
annuity I sleep really well there's a

55:40
million things on the planet that we can

55:42
worry about all the time uh but uh yeah

55:45
having a little bit of money in a safe

55:47
spot uh is a good way to live

55:51
and then we'll introduce you as a

55:53
special star or something and that is

55:56
John lens

55:58
thanks my favorite people on the planet

56:00
thank you so much for joining us on fun

56:02
with annuities and thank you every

56:03
single person out there on all major

56:06
podcast platforms on them the fun with

56:08
annuities YouTube channel where you now

56:09
have verified that I have a face for

56:12
radio we'll see you next time

56:18
[Music]