Heather Schreiber: Social Security Hacks & Insider Secrets

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welcome to fun with annuities with your

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host me stan the annuity man america's

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annuity agent can annuities be fun can

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[Music]

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welcome to fun with annuities i'm your

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host stan the annuity man america's

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annuity agent i want to welcome every

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single person out there that's listening

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to us on all major podcast platforms and

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watching us

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on the fun with annuities youtube

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channel you can go there and see all of

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the recorded replays of my

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celebrity guests when we have them on

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boy do we have a celebrity celebrity

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easy for me to say today

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her name is heather schreiber

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and she is a just a nationally renowned

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social security expert there's a lot

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more to it than that she does a lot more

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than that

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but what we're going to talk about today

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because

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you know the people listening to this

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are primarily

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individual investors and people that are

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trying to learn even though there are

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some you know heather a bunch of

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advisors do they don't tell anybody but

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they follow us because this is one of

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the fastest growing financial podcast

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podcasts in the country so with that

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being said

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heather welcome to fun with annuities

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thanks so much for being here

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hey thanks for having me stan this will

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be fun looking forward to it this should

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be fun well tell us a little bit i want

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my i always want my celebrity guests to

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tell people kind of who they are i know

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you're from georgia which that makes you

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a wonderful person because you're from

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the south like i am originally from

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north carolina

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um so i might start twanging here so if

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we start twanging that that's good

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because you know we southerners mirror

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themselves but tell us a little bit

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about yourself and how you became

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this renowned expert in the space of

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social security

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well i have been in the same industry

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from out of the womb i feel like um back

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in i'm gonna date myself i graduated

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from college in 1992

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and in 1993 landed my first job in

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the retirement division

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of franklin templeton mutual funds there

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you go and

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i just

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sort of cleaved onto every ounce of

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knowledge i could get i mean i was on

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the call center talking to consumers

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that are listening to this you know

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what's my balance how do i do a an ira

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what you know all of those things and i

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just

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from a very early age i mean i was all a

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bright of 22 years old um

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you know said this is this is what i

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want to do and so

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i

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stayed this is my 28th i think if i can

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do my math right 28th year in the

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industry and i primarily focus on

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helping

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those who help the consumers i do get

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the goodness good fortune of being able

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to talk to consumers

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um when you know usually on behalf of

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someone that's helping them whether it's

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their cpa their attorney their financial

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planner

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but i just made it my mission to be a

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consumer advocate i love

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educating people and there isn't enough

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of that uh you know people are googling

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and that you know you and i both know

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that that can be a holy nightmare um and

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you know so i focused on

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retirement income planning that's kind

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of my my sweet spot um and then you know

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12 15 years ago i realized that social

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security

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was an area that many uh financial

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practitioners shied away from because it

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was complex

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and there was a lot of need

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for consumers to have advocates in their

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corner because you know there's so much

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that goes into it for roughly 90 of us

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in retirement we're relying on on social

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security in some form or fashion

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and for a lot of us that is the pension

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of our retirement right and so i always

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say you have to look at social security

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like that you know for those of us that

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are fortunate enough to have a pension

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still and we know that those are going

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away in lieu of you know 401ks for most

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of the responsibilities on on us

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for our retirement

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but you know you get that statement if

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you're a pension recipient that says

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okay here's your choices you finally

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made it and so what are the choices what

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what option are you going to take are

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you going to take just for your single

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life are you going to take a qualifying

4:36
joint annuity and benefit a surviving

4:38
spouse i look at social security exactly

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the same way it has to be

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something that a very careful

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consideration is done in terms of when

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to claim and i always say to people you

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know

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i used to run into people

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you know tax professionals some

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financial professionals would say oh

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everyone should file at x

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and i would say you're doing them a

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grade disservice because we're not all

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created equal right we all have

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different um

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goals in retirement we have different

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challenges in retirement we might have

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more saved than another so all of that

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is going to play into what how that

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decision should go

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and so

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that became a mission of mine to educate

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everyone everyone i could touch

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you know what needs to go into this

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decision it isn't just

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i retire therefore i claim it isn't oh

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i'm afraid it's not going to be there so

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everyone should turn it on at 62. it

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really is you know knowing what you know

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before you walk into that social

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security office which they're finally

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reopening um and and what i'll tell

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people and you've probably heard this

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and all of your talks with folks is that

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social security the representatives

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there are not permitted

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to engage in anything that looks as

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though they're giving advice and so that

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consumers have to go in there equipped

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with the knowledge they need to make

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a claiming decision that

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works for them and makes sense for them

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in their situation so

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that's the

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abridged version of how i

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sort of made this my mission so yeah

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social security is one of the topics

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that i specialize in it's one honestly

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that i get the most reach out for i mean

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even from consumers you know read

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something that i've you know been quoted

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or whatever so i just

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love

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education and so do you so that's why

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this is a great thing

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now absolutely you also

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know your way around medicare as well so

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in combination with social security

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medicare planning

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um which are you know i always tell

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people social security is the best

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inflation annuity on the planet i love

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when people tell me i hate all annuities

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i'm like well i guess you need to go by

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social security and turn off that income

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stream right that's a lifetime income

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stream um

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couple fallacies and things that i

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always hear from people um the baby

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boomers the 10 000 that are reaching age

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65 every day more than that i think now

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hey stan um and now it's hey heather

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is social security going to be around

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tell us about that what's your how do

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you answer that question when people ask

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it

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you know invalid i mean they've been

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bombarded you know the media you know

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constantly you know if it leads it

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bleeds i wrote a recent article from my

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newsletter about that right that what

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going defunct it's insolvent

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um

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and you have to understand what

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insolvency means because it doesn't mean

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that

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there's nothing that once it's installed

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it's done

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so you know the history of the trust

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funds the message has been every year

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and around october-ish we get the status

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of the trust funds right well in 2020

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this the trust fund report came out and

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everyone we really you know us nerds

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that read into this stuff said okay

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this year well what was interesting it

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really wasn't very different from the

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years before that you know somewhere

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2034 2035 we're looking at insolvency

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insolvency just means that the trust

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funds are depleted it does not mean that

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there's not that they're not they're

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just going to cut off benefits okay so

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that means that the

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the expenses are greater than the

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ongoing revenue and the revenue comes

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obviously from payroll taxes it comes

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from the interest income on the us

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treasury

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securities

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um and it comes from the taxation of

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benefits for those that are taxed on

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their benefits but anyway

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interestingly they said hey ps on the

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2020 report this doesn't take into

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consideration any effects of the

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pandemic

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so of course if it leaves it bleeds

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everyone was like oh my gosh it doesn't

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it it doesn't and so covet is just gonna

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this thing's gonna become insolvent next

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year i mean it was you know there was a

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lot of that well then the 2021 report

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came out and it wasn't nearly as dire as

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what some media outlets have projected

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which is hopeful right

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um and so it basically said that we're

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still along the same path we still have

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issues that if nothing changes between

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now and then that in 2034 the combined

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trust funds meaning the

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ososdi so the combined social security

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and disability uh trust funds will be

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depleted in 2034 that's when they'll

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become insolvent and then again if

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nothing changes then they'll have enough

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and ongoing revenue to pay 78 of

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benefits so

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where does that leave us well it leaves

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us with the same message that they've

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been saying for years which is at the

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very end of that report they always say

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changes need to happen sooner rather

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than later so that we don't have this

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issue so i always say you know yes

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you're going to have consumers that are

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concerned understandably so what is

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going to happen listen this thing isn't

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going to go defunct that would be uh

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political suicide right so i think

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that that is it's going to

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correct itself now

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how is anyone's guess i think you know

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cutting benefits i i hope that that

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isn't the case or or i can see possibly

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delaying the full retirement age for

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people that are younger the latest full

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retirement age right now is 67 for

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people born in 1960 or later because i

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see that going up sure people are living

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longer i can see that but is that going

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to fix it in the short term probably not

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you know i tend to think that perhaps

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we're going to look at higher payroll

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taxes

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um to bring a stream of income in

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um

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and so those are the things but but you

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know it begs the question you know then

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you know how do we plan in an uncertain

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environment

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you know that's why you need to work

10:30
with somebody and a team of people that

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helps you navigate okay the what ifs

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you know

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how are we going to bridge income if

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there is god forbid they say okay we're

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going to cut 22 of your benefits

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starting in 2034. i don't think that's

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going to happen um but nevertheless

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that's why pre-planning is so incredibly

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important to think about the what ifs i

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don't even know if i answered your

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question i get off on tangential no you

10:55
did you did you um

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i have a question that um

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hits hits a lot of times when i'm

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talking to people about the possibility

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of what's called means testing it's it's

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in essence saying hey

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we the government think that you're rich

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even though you don't think you're rich

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and you are the evil rich and because

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you've worked hard and scrimped and

11:15
saved and all that stuff

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um we might have a system in place in

11:20
the future to opt you out i hear that a

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lot with a lot of my high net worth

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clients

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and people are out there going well

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they're high net worth why should they

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care my opinion with that is i was

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speaking with someone yesterday

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that had just sold their business had

11:34
worked so hard and now i said hey by the

11:35
way you're millionaires now so

11:37
congratulations and they could not grasp

11:39
that

11:40
getting back to the question do you see

11:41
means testing going down the pipe

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because that's an easy sell for

11:45
politicians

11:48
you know it's possible um

11:51
it would go against everything that

11:54
the system has always been in place for

11:56
um it's you know it's not one of the

11:58
systems that's means tested so

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it's interesting it's anyone's guess um

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i

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i don't know i mean i i've heard it

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i hope that isn't the case

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but you know

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who knows who knows that's that's my

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that's my pessimistic realistic view

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on life is that you know everything to

12:18
me uh from a from dc standpoint they're

12:20
looking at voting blocks

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and uh it's easy to point to people that

12:24
have accumulated assets because they

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represent such a small portion

12:28
right and that is has been the target

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right

12:31
of proposals um

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you know really it's not i mean you know

12:37
high net worth how you define it i mean

12:38
right now that the proposals are hitting

12:40
people with for you know that taxable

12:42
income of 400 000 or more that's kind of

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the sweet spot that's been the target

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for all the tax proposals that are out

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there so who knows i mean

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yeah i mean i could

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i don't know what what um

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what mistakes what are some of the

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primary mistakes you see people making

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when looking at social security and

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making those claiming decisions what are

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some glaring ones that you just kind of

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slap your forehead when you hear about

13:09
them

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or that advisors and one of the things

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heather does very well out there is she

13:14
tries to take advisors

13:16
and make them a little bit smarter in

13:18
all this which is kind of like showing

13:20
paintings to blind people

13:22
heather and talking to some advisors but

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what are some of the mistakes i guess

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individuals make and and i guess that

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would dovetail into what advisors are

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telling people as well

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as far as consumers what i would caution

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is particularly for married couples um

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when you're because every what does

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everyone start with i mean consumer says

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well

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what's my break even how long do i have

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to live

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or to make sense for me

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to hold out i know that everything i'm

13:51
reading says you really should wait i

13:53
mean to at least full retirement age you

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know anyone who doesn't know full

13:57
retirement age is quote the magic age

13:58
right because

14:00
a whole host of things happens you get

14:02
100

14:03
at least for now 100

14:05
of your

14:06
primary insurance amount the amount

14:08
that's based on your highest 35 years of

14:11
indexed earnings there's no reductions

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um you don't have to worry about how

14:15
much you earn and having that be a

14:17
potential issue

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um

14:20
but people you know obviously say gosh

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you know i'm sick i know i can take it

14:24
at 62 why shouldn't i what's my break

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even and i would say you know you have

14:27
to be careful about the break

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um thing when you're married and the

14:31
reason is

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because you know oftentimes and i still

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see quite a bit i mean i'm starting to

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see obviously dual income households

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where they're more equal in their

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benefit estimates but we're still seeing

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a disparity you know a wide disparity

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and that's the demographic is changing

14:48
of the working family right and so we

14:49
have i'll use myself as an example i

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mean i took a hiatus i was still sort of

14:54
consulting on the side but i took a

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hiatus for about six years where i was

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like okay i'm going to raise these boys

14:59
of mine

15:00
um and so i have a break and so i see

15:03
that a lot you know where there's one

15:05
parent that stays in the house and so

15:07
you might see a disparity in income

15:09
benefits and when you see that having

15:12
that discussion about when to claim

15:15
is really important to look at the

15:17
couple because if the higher wage earner

15:19
says well

15:20
you know i'm not that healthy

15:22
i'm going to go ahead and file at 62

15:24
because no one in my family lived past

15:26
80 or 75 or whatever the case may be

15:29
well they're not thinking and it's not

15:30
that they're selfishly not thinking

15:32
about it they're just not thinking and

15:34
taking that out to what happens down the

15:36
road so if we take that out and say okay

15:39
if you're a three thousand dollar

15:41
primary insurance amounter and you have

15:42
a spouse that's a thousand let's just

15:44
say or 1500 or whatever

15:46
and that higher wage earner is the one

15:48
who thinks that they're not going to

15:50
live long enough for it to make

15:51
mathematical sense to wait

15:54
then let's play that out that person

15:56
then dies at even 75

15:59
what happens

16:00
well that survivor that thousand dollar

16:03
person

16:04
is now left with the

16:06
the reduced age 62 benefit right

16:10
of

16:11
their spouse because that's the higher

16:13
of the two so when one spouse dies the

16:15
first thing you need to know is that one

16:16
of those benefits is going away and it's

16:18
a smaller one right

16:19
so when you're dealing with that

16:21
disparity you have to really play that

16:22
out and say okay

16:24
if

16:25
if i've got the higher benefit amount

16:28
i need to be considering

16:29
my claiming age

16:32
for when i'm past two because most

16:34
spouses say yes i do i am concerned

16:35
about what happens to my survivor my

16:37
surrounding spouse's income and so

16:39
that's one of the things i see is so i

16:41
would say my takeaway there is what is a

16:43
mistake that consumers make

16:45
relying too heavily on that break even

16:47
especially if they're married

16:48
um

16:50
so that would be what i'd say there with

16:52
advisors i would say

16:54
having a rule of thumb

16:57
you know everyone should file at 62.

16:59
everyone should do this everyone should

17:01
do that

17:02
and i tell people run

17:05
don't walk away from me because you're

17:07
not everyone

17:09
right you have

17:10
specific things and i need to get to

17:13
know you i need to understand what what

17:16
makes you tick what is it that you're

17:18
maybe what what's your you know

17:20
what drives you is it legacy is it is it

17:23
are you concerned about leaving assets

17:25
to kids are you concerned about having

17:27
to take care of a loved one

17:28
what other assets do you have safe for

17:30
retirement what's your income need when

17:32
do you plan to retire all those things

17:34
come into play and so i think that that

17:37
anyone who says well this should just be

17:39
a rule of thumb

17:40
i never say that and nor do i ever say i

17:43
mean mathematically if someone lives to

17:45
average life expectancy these days which

17:47
for a man a 65 year old man is like 84

17:50
for a female it's 87

17:52
everyone should file at 70. that's

17:54
mathematically because

17:56
because if you only have to live from a

17:58
breakeven standpoint you only have to

17:59
live to about 81 for it to make more

18:02
sense to file at 70 versus 62. and

18:04
that's eight years of lost income so

18:06
mathematically it does make more sense

18:08
but you're still never going to find me

18:09
saying everyone should file 70. because

18:11
i want to know you i want to understand

18:13
you i want to understand what is of

18:15
concern to you and and work

18:18
work the situation so that work take

18:20
taking into consideration everything

18:22
lifetime income for both of you if

18:24
you're married survivor income you know

18:26
the person that has a pension what

18:28
happens to that pension if they're lucky

18:30
enough to have one is it a joint

18:31
survivor pension or is it single and if

18:34
it's a survivor pension at what

18:36
percentage so all of that comes into

18:38
play and we don't even talk about taxes

18:40
right so you have to really

18:42
develop

18:44
a plan that makes sense

18:47
i agree you just hit your mic i don't

18:49
know if you had that but that's what

18:50
that's what everyone heard on the

18:52
on the podcast i think one of the i

18:54
think you said that so well which is

18:56
everything's customizable i always tell

18:58
people that if your advisor says i hate

19:01
all annuities take your take your social

19:03
security at 66

19:05
and this is how you do medicare whatever

19:08
it's like heather said run get up and

19:11
just leave because

19:13
everything in the financial world is

19:15
customizable and especially on

19:18
with social security i think one of the

19:20
biggest mistakes being made in social

19:22
security advising that i hear and i

19:25
don't do i don't do social security

19:26
advising i i want people to listen to

19:29
people like you

19:30
um and people that do that for their

19:33
their living and their their specialist

19:35
and that but i think one of the big

19:37
things is people's current health status

19:40
their longevity within their family how

19:43
they're actually feeling you know i had

19:45
a gentleman the other day say well you

19:46
know i'm 61 but i just had a stint put

19:50
in my heart at age 60 my dad died at age

19:52
66

19:54
that's the person that might want to

19:56
turn it on sooner than later and it's

19:58
not that doesn't mean it's a bad

19:59
decision but if you read

20:01
go on the internet it's like never turn

20:02
it on at 62. right i mean a lot of it

20:05
also comes down to do you really need

20:07
the income and a vast majority of

20:09
americans this is their primary source

20:11
of lifetime income which is also also

20:14
sad

20:15
when you talk to advisors do you see

20:17
them making that mistake of not thinking

20:20
about the health status or make making

20:22
those deductions

20:25
you know i think

20:26
you know i would i would like to think

20:27
that's sort of i mean if we all had a

20:29
crystal ball we would all know exactly

20:30
when to file

20:31
that is for step one

20:33
in my mind

20:35
exactly right i mean that is part of the

20:37
equation

20:38
again when when you're talking with a

20:40
couple that is but you also have to

20:42
think of again the the longevity of the

20:45
couple when you're making that decision

20:47
um

20:49
so yeah definitely and i again you know

20:52
there are going to be people i mean the

20:54
average age is actually going up so you

20:56
know it used to be the majority did file

20:58
at 62. it's actually gone up for both

21:00
male and females till about 64 in some

21:03
months so so this is a positive trend

21:05
because why is that why is that i think

21:07
that i'm hoping i'm hopeful well a

21:09
couple few things i'm hoping that people

21:11
are getting more education about

21:14
the longevity i mean it really is the

21:16
annuity of for most people right it is

21:18
the annuity um and so i think some of

21:20
this education it could be people are

21:22
working longer and so you know if anyone

21:24
has ever

21:25
you know tried to file for benefits

21:27
before full retirement eight before

21:28
their full retirement age um and they're

21:30
working then sometimes they'll be turned

21:32
away entirely from social security

21:34
because you can only make a certain

21:35
modest amount of income and collect a

21:36
benefit without it starting to impact

21:38
how much you can collect so i mean you

21:41
know i i

21:42
again i hope i mean i you know my ideal

21:45
for most people

21:47
or you know

21:49
would not be 62 simply because of

21:51
mathematics i mean if you know like

21:54
78 is about the break even there for 62

21:56
versus wait until full retirement age

21:58
and most people as we said are living

21:59
longer and whatever

22:01
um but for sure i i would hope that that

22:03
is one of the first questions that is

22:06
you know

22:06
tell me about your your family history

22:08
and and all of that yeah for sure are

22:12
these inflation numbers making you gasp

22:14
for air

22:17
you mean for social security yes

22:20
i mean is this just

22:22
uncharted waters

22:24
yeah

22:24
yeah and i mean and it's in again that's

22:27
something

22:28
that advisors should be talking to

22:30
people about too i mean we gotta plan

22:32
you know for this it's crazy i mean look

22:35
at healthcare inflation

22:37
you know the percentages are staggering

22:39
of how much

22:41
of social security income people are

22:43
having to spend on long-term care

22:45
expenses in retirement

22:46
so it's something that definitely needs

22:48
to be part of the conversation you know

22:50
planning for that

22:51
you know for sure and at the time of

22:53
this taping

22:55
you know obviously the um social

22:57
security payments were increased

22:59
due to the formula for inflation

23:02
um it looks like the the following year

23:04
will have a similar increase

23:06
but unfortunately i believe that's being

23:08
wiped out by current gas prices and

23:10
current food prices

23:12
which

23:13
it's almost like we're treading water

23:15
again

23:16
that retiree that is primarily dependent

23:19
upon social security as their lifetime

23:21
income stream

23:22
they're not getting ahead

23:25
what are you hearing with the experts

23:27
that you interact with in the social

23:28
security space

23:31
what are they what are they talking

23:33
about

23:34
what are the new strategies that you and

23:36
your cohorts are developing

23:39
um

23:40
you know with all this demographic the

23:42
demographic tidal wave that's happening

23:43
right now people are thirsty for this

23:46
type of advice which is the reason i

23:48
wanted to have you on because just just

23:50
your cadence and approach is very easy

23:52
to understand

23:54
and simplistic which is good so what is

23:56
there anything that people

23:58
need to be aware of or they just need to

24:00
know the basics

24:02
well i mean you know inflation certainly

24:05
is hitting everybody hard right now and

24:07
certainly retirees um one of the

24:10
proposals that has been out there for a

24:12
while and quite frankly i hope goes

24:13
through is changing the consumer price

24:16
index that measures

24:18
right that

24:20
inflation so you know it currently is

24:22
the consumer price index for urban

24:25
worker urban and clerical workers or you

24:27
know and i'm like well but we're not but

24:29
our retirees aren't those people right

24:31
that's not that's not measuring the

24:32
spending habits of the very people that

24:34
are relying on this income source

24:36
typical government typical government

24:38
approach right

24:39
um

24:41
so

24:42
you know there have been several

24:43
proposals to change that to this the

24:46
consumer price index for the elderly so

24:49
it you know because what do we change

24:51
our spending habits i mean in retirement

24:53
what's our one of our biggest spend of

24:55
spends in retirement uh healthcare and

24:58
so you know they need to shift that

25:01
um to something that measures what that

25:04
demographic is actually spending on and

25:06
if they do that that would increase

25:09
in all likelihood would increase the uh

25:12
the

25:12
you know the

25:14
cost of living adjustment

25:16
to be more in line with what they're

25:18
they're spending on it i mean it's it's

25:20
it's a it's an issue i mean certainly my

25:22
heart goes out to people that are in

25:24
retirement right now trying to make

25:26
instinct with exactly what you said i

25:28
mean

25:29
everybody's probably coming vegetarians

25:30
because i mean steak prices

25:33
you know

25:34
influx of an influx of veganism all of a

25:37
sudden forced veganism rice and beans

25:40
that used to that's what i sustained on

25:41
in college i'm all about it i love it

25:43
but i mean if you're a stake eater

25:45
you're not video um

25:47
in gas prices i mean it's ridiculous so

25:50
uh but yeah there are proposals about

25:52
that i do hope that's one of the things

25:54
that that's that does change but it's

25:55
certainly something that

25:57
consumers with hopefully

25:59
you know

26:00
financial planners and

26:02
their tax people are really thinking

26:04
about that

26:06
they plan for retirement and making sure

26:08
i mean what we're all trying to do is

26:09
make sure we don't run out of money

26:10
right

26:11
and so

26:12
that's why going back to social security

26:15
it's such a critical decision it's such

26:17
a critical decision because that is

26:20
your annuity for you know

26:25
i agree

26:26
you know i think that

26:28
government entities frustrate us all

26:30
they're not efficient in our view

26:32
we look at them you know and think man

26:34
they just

26:36
they should be better than this do you

26:38
think social security as an organization

26:40
as a as the big cruise ship that they

26:42
are

26:43
do you feel that they're getting better

26:44
they're listening better they're

26:46
adapting better because of

26:48
this this

26:50
influx of people hitting retirement age

26:52
do you see them

26:54
being a little bit more pro

26:56
pro consumer

26:58
uh

26:59
yes

27:00
yes and and no

27:02
um

27:03
you know i think you know i mean i have

27:05
a lot of i have mad props for you know

27:08
social security and then the i mean you

27:10
know if you look at their website they

27:12
they do have incredible information and

27:14
they do they are trying

27:16
um what i'm seeing though is that

27:19
there and this is just my theory i've

27:21
seen a lot of misinformation coming out

27:24
in the particularly since the pandemic

27:25
hit um and i think it has a lot to do

27:29
with

27:29
many of the social security old-timers

27:32
deciding to hang it up

27:34
and so what happened is all the field

27:37
offices closed in march of 2020 they

27:39
just reopened

27:41
april 7th like literally

27:43
last week a couple few days ago

27:46
and a lot of these new people were being

27:48
trained

27:49
uh

27:51
remotely

27:52
and so i think that's been a struggle um

27:55
for sure they've had a change of

27:58
leadership there

28:00
um

28:01
so yeah i think that it's like any

28:03
system it's got some improvements that

28:05
it can be made for sure

28:08
their website does seem to be better

28:11
you know from a navigational standpoint

28:13
i think would you agree with that well i

28:16
don't know probably not the best person

28:17
to ask because i'm the person that has

28:18
memorized every single spot of where

28:20
everything was and

28:22
i do that they change it and i'm like oh

28:24
um

28:25
yes i mean they you know they simplified

28:27
the social security statement i'm sure

28:29
you've seen that to a two pager

28:31
now

28:32
that's designed to be sort of by age

28:34
band so it pulls information for you

28:37
know the age the age 50 to 59 year olds

28:40
and gives you relevant information about

28:41
that and then it sort of i like that

28:44
um what i don't like about it is that

28:47
the earnings history now is a separate

28:49
like you know on the my social security

28:51
uh

28:52
portal which is everyone should have one

28:54
if they don't

28:55
um

28:56
so you've got a two-page simplified

28:57
social security statement which quite

28:59
frankly before it was like five pages

29:00
and no one read it

29:02
because it would you know they would

29:03
never read all the caveats and there

29:04
were many um but it does now you have to

29:07
look at you have to take another step to

29:09
get to your earnings history and i

29:10
always tell people you know make sure

29:12
your earnings history is accurate why is

29:14
that so important well because your

29:17
benefit you know estimate is based upon

29:19
your highest 35 years of indexed

29:20
earnings so if they're not reported or

29:22
they're reported inaccurately you got a

29:24
problem and you don't want to find that

29:25
out

29:26
two days before you're getting ready to

29:27
file when you finally created my social

29:29
security account um so they need to go

29:32
into that my social security account and

29:34
now they're so their earnings history

29:36
isn't part of that two-page statement it

29:38
is but it's banded into like 10-year

29:40
increments early on

29:42
so there's a separate section in there

29:43
for looking at your earnings so i always

29:45
say it's like your consumer

29:47
uh your credit report right every year

29:49
you should be looking at the leasing

29:51
handling so i go into my social security

29:53
statement a lot

29:54
just because and what's that website for

29:56
people they probably already know it but

29:57
go ahead and give it um for

30:00
social security yeah ssa.gov

30:03
gov like government and then the very

30:05
first page is my social security if they

30:07
haven't set one up they need to

30:09
um because

30:11
you you just got it you gotta

30:13
be take charge of your own retirement i

30:15
mean i talked to someone who literally

30:17
had looked at his earnings history for i

30:20
don't know a bazillion years and he had

30:22
like 12 straight years that nothing was

30:24
reported

30:25
and it becomes abundantly harder to deal

30:27
with that and he was approaching

30:28
retirement too is when he discovered it

30:31
so he had to pull tax return i mean it's

30:33
a mess so they really need to be looking

30:35
at that but there is a lot of good

30:37
information on social security's website

30:39
if you go to that same website just type

30:41
in publications

30:43
um

30:44
in the search

30:45
bar there's a lot of good publications

30:48
that are designed to be they're consumer

30:50
facing so they're

30:52
in my mind i'm always looking for what's

30:54
easy to understand and read and bite

30:56
size pieces they have some good

30:58
information there they also have some

31:00
good benefit calculators that's the

31:02
other thing about my social security i

31:03
work with a lot of business owners who

31:05
say well okay why does that you know

31:07
i've worked my tail off and my social

31:09
security benefit doesn't reflect it well

31:11
why doesn't it reflect it well because

31:13
you probably were an s corporation

31:16
and you only took a small salary right

31:19
and the salary was the only portion that

31:21
was subject to social security taxes

31:23
right so now you're like uh oh what do i

31:26
do i need to shift more income to the

31:28
social security taxable category so i

31:30
can beef up my social security benefit

31:32
so if you have a my social security

31:35
account you can go in and do what-if

31:37
scenarios and then once you've done them

31:39
all you say what if i make this and

31:40
whatever and then i retire at this date

31:43
it sort of

31:45
logs all of those what-if scenarios and

31:46
then you can download it into a report

31:48
which i really like

31:50
so that works well for somebody who has

31:53
you know thinking hey what it doesn't

31:54
make a difference if i go back to work

31:56
or what if i you know if i'm a business

31:58
owner and i add more w-2 compensation to

32:01
the scenario is that gonna you know

32:03
significantly beef up my benefit that's

32:05
a good thing so there's there's a lot of

32:07
good information on their website and

32:09
that is something that i think they

32:10
focused on is consumer awareness

32:12
consumer education so i can't fault them

32:15
there i mean they do have some great

32:17
information it's just learning how to

32:19
navigate their website

32:21
can people get it all done on the

32:22
website or they have to walk in that

32:24
office

32:25
yeah so most they want you to do

32:27
everything through your my social

32:28
security account i would think so the

32:30
point that you can so

32:32
you know filing for benefits is pretty

32:34
straightforward

32:35
um online you obviously have to have a

32:38
my social security account and you go in

32:40
and go through it'll ask you all kinds

32:42
of things you know were you you know

32:44
when did you retire if are you still

32:46
working how much you're earning are you

32:48
married

32:49
um it's supposed to in theory pick up on

32:51
the fact that your spouse may be

32:52
entitled to a benefit under your record

32:54
that doesn't always happen um did you

32:56
have non-covered employment you know for

32:58
example are you an old civil service

33:00
retirement system employee those folks

33:02
didn't pay into social security and so

33:04
they have additional situations that

33:07
might affect them

33:08
that would reduce their benefits

33:10
um but if it's a plain vanilla file it's

33:12
very easy to do i always say though in

33:15
the remarks section which is in the very

33:17
last page always reiterate what you're

33:19
doing

33:20
because then it leaves notice you've

33:21
done it twice you said okay during the

33:23
you know the the process of going

33:25
through the application you file you put

33:27
what you want and then the remarks

33:29
reiterate it always because it protects

33:31
them that's their protected filing to

33:33
say okay this is what i wanted

33:35
the protected filing date is the day

33:37
that they submit that application and if

33:39
they say well but i asked for six months

33:40
of retroactive benefits because i'm now

33:43
68 years old and i you know i know i can

33:46
get as much as six months of retroactive

33:47
benefits if i'm beyond full retirement

33:49
age by at least that much i put it in my

33:51
remarks you didn't do it so then it's

33:53
there so i always say hey

33:55
reiterate what you're trying to do

33:57
always in remarks and if there's any

33:58
room for interpretation they can call

34:00
you about it what other hacks that's a

34:02
hack in my opinion i like that

34:05
are what other little tidbits like that

34:07
little little heather heather hopeful

34:09
heather hints how about that i mean the

34:12
other thing is if you're in a situation

34:14
where you think you'll be entitled to

34:16
well let me go back to say what you

34:17
can't do online is survivor you can't

34:19
file for survivor but if it's online

34:21
okay

34:22
so the only way a surviving spouse is

34:24
going to automatically collect a

34:26
survivor's benefit is if they were

34:28
collecting dependent spousal benefits

34:30
while their spouse was living that's the

34:31
only time otherwise that is a file that

34:34
needs cannot be done online now during

34:37
kobit um you know people had to call and

34:40
make a phone appointment it was a hot

34:41
mess and a nightmare trying to get

34:42
through but that was really the way to

34:44
do it but i would say another hack would

34:46
be and i discovered these things

34:48
actually through working with my mom um

34:50
when i was helping her file she was one

34:52
of those lucky people that was born in

34:54
time to file what's called a restricted

34:56
application what the heck is that that

34:58
means that's one of the strategies

35:00
that's sort of grandfathering out here

35:02
within the next year but

35:04
she was born before january 2nd 1954

35:08
and people born before that have the

35:10
ability to instead of filing for their

35:12
own retirement benefit they could say

35:14
hey i want to file for half of his or

35:16
hers my spouse or x belts and hold off

35:19
on getting my own

35:21
so that's what she did she was married

35:23
to my dad for 10 years they were

35:24
divorced um and she was able to do that

35:27
until she turned 70 and she turned 70 in

35:29
september of last year and she got her

35:31
maximized social security benefit what i

35:34
discovered in that process with her is

35:36
she had been married a second time

35:38
but she wasn't married for 10 years so

35:40
you have to be married for at least 10

35:42
years to be even able to consider a

35:45
former spouse's benefits with your own

35:47
um

35:48
well

35:49
she has to she had to give the marriage

35:52
certificate in the divorce decree for

35:53
her marriage to my dad what i didn't

35:55
know because you find these things out

35:57
when you're going through it real is

35:59
that even though the second marriage

36:00
ended in divorce and didn't didn't even

36:02
count because she wasn't married for 10

36:04
years they still wanted that information

36:07
so i'd say another hack would be gather

36:09
yeah gather more information than you

36:11
think you need because any time you're

36:13
dealing with particularly former spousal

36:15
benefits they're going to require a

36:16
marriage certificate and a divorce

36:17
degree for every marriage you've had if

36:19
it's more than one so that's one thing

36:21
um and with survivor benefits oh people

36:23
always ask you know well

36:25
uh i think he hit the benefit under my

36:27
former spouse might be higher than mine

36:28
but i don't want to ask them

36:30
you don't have to but you do have to

36:32
supply that information you have to have

36:33
the divorce to create the marriage

36:34
certificate so that they will give you

36:36
the information the ex-spouse doesn't

36:38
have to know they will get a notice

36:39
saying hey somebody a dependent is

36:41
collecting benefits on your record i got

36:42
that call from my dad he was like what

36:44
do you mean your mom's getting something

36:45
from me like pipe down it's not gonna

36:47
affect you and she deserves it so but

36:50
you know um so i do get that question

36:53
from people like i really don't want to

36:54
reach out to my ex but i think that i

36:55
might be entitled to a higher benefit

36:57
over that you just have to give them the

36:59
paperwork so that you can prove that you

37:01
did indeed have that marriage that

37:02
you're now divorced measuring the time

37:04
of marriage and all of that so

37:06
um

37:07
that's it

37:08
all right as you were saying that my

37:10
brain of course is going 100 miles an

37:11
hour i'm thinking of the

37:13
sociopathic spouse that marries four

37:16
times 10 years apiece

37:18
and then she gets or he gets whoever

37:21
whatever the strategy is

37:24
benefits from all four

37:26
no

37:27
but there can be carry picking going on

37:29
there could be cherry picking so let's

37:32
you're like stan what are you talking

37:34
about but you know that's that's when i

37:36
think when i get to talk at consumer

37:37
events we all have to chuckle about this

37:39
because you know we're seeing this

37:40
normal people marry divorce

37:43
right well we have to say

37:45
how many times were you married okay

37:47
four times how many times in a stint 10

37:49
years each time awesome now we get to

37:51
cherry pick benefits okay we don't get

37:54
all of them but we can look at all four

37:57
of those spouses and and compare it to

37:59
your own retirement benefit and say okay

38:01
if one of them of the four whichever

38:03
one's got the highest

38:05
if it's more than your own retirement

38:06
benefit that person is who we're going

38:08
to cherry pick we're going to say we

38:09
want that one right

38:11
so it happens this is probably part of

38:13
why the trust funds are having issues

38:15
and so let's suppose that you know

38:18
you're

38:19
as a former spouse he's got

38:21
i'm saying he he's got two former

38:23
spouses at 10 years apart theoretically

38:26
both of them could be collecting an

38:28
ex-spousal benefit from him in addition

38:30
to his current spouse

38:33
so

38:34
there's got to be some great stories out

38:36
there like that

38:37
and

38:38
it doesn't affect his benefit it doesn't

38:41
affect his benefit

38:43
so very hard

38:45
weird retirement strategy of the day

38:47
from heather and stan

38:49
well then i always get a chuckle because

38:50
then i always say and the ex-spouse

38:53
is worth more debt than alive

38:56
and they're like wait a minute let me

38:57
perk up for that i'm like well because

39:00
during lifetime a spousal or a spousal

39:03
it doesn't matter the same maximum

39:05
benefit it's that you can collect either

39:08
the higher of your own retirement

39:11
benefit if you've earned one or fifty

39:13
percent of that spouse or ex spouse's

39:16
primary insurance amount remember

39:17
primary insurance amount is the amount

39:18
they get at full retirement age that's

39:20
the maximum now if i as the former

39:23
spouse say okay i have a really small

39:26
negligible retirement benefit of my own

39:27
so i know that that 50 percent's going

39:29
to be higher i'm only going to get the

39:31
full 50 percent

39:32
if i wait until my full retirement age

39:34
are collected of course if i collect it

39:35
early like if i collect my own

39:37
retirement benefit early it's reduced

39:38
but

39:40
enter survivor world and now we're

39:42
dealing with we're not capped at 50 of

39:44
the primary insurance amount of that

39:46
spouse now we're dealing with 100

39:48
of what they were collecting or entitled

39:50
to collect at their death right so

39:53
that's why going back to our original

39:54
conversation about married couples

39:58
you need to be thinking about that you

40:00
know what that higher wage earner does

40:02
in terms of claiming age affects the

40:04
surviving spouse because if that

40:07
higher earning spouse filed at 62 63 or

40:10
something like that that's their base

40:12
amount that's the 100 that we're

40:15
starting with versus if they had waited

40:17
until full retirement age that's

40:18
obviously a higher base amount that

40:20
we're starting with so

40:22
yeah i always say you know spouse you

40:23
have to ask you know when you're dealing

40:25
with consumers you say how many times

40:26
you know were you married before oh yeah

40:27
four times how many how many years okay

40:30
this one counts as we got are they dead

40:31
or alive

40:33
because

40:34
you know the answer the answer think

40:36
about what do you need them to be no i'm

40:38
kidding

40:40
right yeah what's in my best what's in

40:42
my best interest i'm a big dateline

40:44
mystery girl exactly

40:46
and i'm like you know i was asked my

40:48
husband hey can you get my notepad over

40:49
there

40:50
social security murder

40:53
right

40:54
um

40:55
we've gone down the rabbit hole this is

40:57
the but this is the fun part that i just

40:59
i think that i was because that's i'm

41:01
assuming i had some listeners out there

41:02
going but what if well there's there's

41:04
your what if i had i do have a question

41:07
also about the offices walking in now

41:10
obviously before you go into the social

41:11
security

41:12
office you take the cbd pill or oil to

41:15
calm down right

41:17
we were not we're not promoting alcohol

41:20
consumption or anything like that but

41:21
cbd non-addicted but it does calm you

41:24
down so you walk in the door

41:28
tell me the advice from there because

41:30
that just i know people say well i don't

41:32
never want to go in there i mean i hear

41:34
that from my clients and my people that

41:36
call me what do you tell people how do

41:38
you how do you circumvent the office and

41:40
maximize your visit

41:42
well you go in there

41:44
already knowing what you know because

41:47
not doing that and then trying to

41:49
explain to somebody i mean and again

41:51
there are amazing social security

41:53
representatives

41:55
now i think it's going to be a pain

41:56
point for sure because they're opening

41:58
the offices and like i keep getting ones

42:01
for i'm in georgia i keep getting texts

42:03
because i'm on every text chain you know

42:04
the office is in this county is open

42:07
from this

42:08
this time to this time and they're kind

42:10
of

42:10
uh a little bit disjointed right now

42:13
they really

42:14
have an appointment you can come in

42:15
there and wait but you really need like

42:16
a double dose of cbd if you do that but

42:19
what i would say is before you even go

42:21
in there

42:22
write down be prepared write down

42:25
exactly what you want to do haven't read

42:28
it

42:28
you know having the documents you need

42:30
you don't want to have to make more than

42:31
one trip so if you're going in there

42:34
looking for a widow or whatever's going

42:35
to fit make sure you go in there with

42:37
your marriage certificate if it's an ex

42:38
spouse's disease the divorce decree

42:41
you know typically you don't need the um

42:43
the death certificate because the

42:44
funeral home will have sent it but if

42:46
you have one take it you just want to

42:48
have the documents that you need so

42:50
that's why it's so important when you're

42:53
going for a particular type of benefit

42:54
read up on it go to the ssa's website

42:57
and go to publications there is a

42:58
publication for every single thing

43:01
if you are the survivor

43:03
you know if you know

43:04
family benefits

43:06
benefits for uh

43:08
children or you know whatever the case

43:10
may be read up and be educated before

43:12
you go in because i have seen cases

43:14
where

43:15
someone is told inaccurate information

43:17
when they go in so you want to go in

43:19
there take take responsibility for your

43:21
own take take charge of retirement right

43:23
you don't want to go in there and just

43:25
take it as gospel because sometimes it's

43:26
not accurate and i

43:28
see it more often than i'd like people

43:30
say well they told me that i couldn't i

43:32
couldn't even file because i earned too

43:34
much money this year and i need to come

43:36
back next year and i said you know

43:37
they're

43:38
the annual earnings test it was a mis

43:40
interpretation that someone who you know

43:43
i kind of mentioned it briefly if you if

43:44
you want to file for benefits before

43:46
full retirement age and you make more

43:48
than 19 560 this year if you're under

43:50
full retirement school a year social

43:52
security can say have a nice day come

43:54
back later except for if someone retires

43:56
mid-year and says wait a minute i made

43:58
fifty thousand dollars from nap from you

44:00
know january to this moment but i'm

44:03
retiring for the rest of the year then

44:04
they fall under a special rule that says

44:07
okay we'll disregard that the prior

44:09
earnings so long as

44:11
you don't earn more than the monthly

44:12
equivalent of that annual limit for the

44:14
rest of the year so these are the kinds

44:16
of things that when you're going in

44:17
there and saying okay

44:19
this is what i want to do write down all

44:21
your questions take the documents that

44:23
you need read the publications that

44:25
apply to your situation

44:27
and know what you know because you you

44:29
know you don't want to spend another

44:30
eight hours in there because you think

44:32
you've got

44:33
poor advice yeah be prepared and and

44:36
make it easy on that receiving person

44:39
you know heather everything is a patrick

44:42
swayze roadhouse movie correlation as

44:44
you know oh my gosh my husband's

44:46
favorite i can't believe you just said

44:48
that exactly so i'm going to give you

44:49
the the patrick swayze roadhouse

44:51
correlation

44:53
for social walking into the social

44:54
security office and if you haven't

44:56
watched the movie

44:57
you know once you've finished the

44:59
podcast just take the day off and go

45:00
watch it it's a classic

45:02
house because it's on every day exactly

45:04
so patrick swayze when he goes to the

45:06
hospital he brings his medical records

45:08
with him to make it easy for the doctor

45:10
if you remember that as well

45:12
and the other thing that he said to his

45:13
bouncers as he's training them for the

45:15
upcoming night is be nice

45:18
well what if they do this doesn't matter

45:20
be nice well what if the social security

45:23
person yells at me and calls me a name

45:25
be nice

45:26
so once again heather

45:28
just as a haunting thing to you patrick

45:30
swayze is back in your life in this

45:33
podcast isn't that fantastic so you got

45:34
to tell your husband that

45:37
this guy

45:38
did a social security road house

45:40
correlation and it made total sense

45:44
well i love patrick swayze but every

45:46
time i see the movie on i'm like you've

45:47
got to be kidding me how many times can

45:50
we watch it there's there's there's life

45:52
meanings in that and we just pulled a

45:54
social security

45:56
correlation from roadhouse which i think

45:58
you probably never thought was possible

45:59
but now i've put that in your brain

46:02
and you're going to use that in all of

46:04
your presentations i'm assuming um you

46:06
can have me for life if it had been a

46:08
golden girls reference because that is

46:09
my favorite

46:10
[Laughter]

46:15
couple more questions

46:16
um

46:18
the next meeting for our friends the

46:20
social security board when they walk in

46:21
and they have the croissants and

46:23
everything there in the in the office

46:25
and the big marble table when is that

46:26
that's coming up correct

46:28
well they so the the trust fund comes

46:31
out and i mean the report comes out in

46:33
october so this is i mean i was just

46:35
reading as i was waiting for us to chat

46:37
today the

46:38
congressional business office i was

46:40
reading through the pages of you know

46:43
the potential of things well that'll be

46:45
on the agenda what they're talking about

46:46
what could possible they could be doing

46:48
to shore up this issue and of course the

46:51
increasing payroll tax and all of those

46:52
things are are on the docket so i mean

46:55
they can't continue to ignore it so yeah

46:57
it has they're in discussions and they

46:59
need to

47:00
do something

47:01
are they flying you in for that heather

47:03
in the learjet oh gosh you know as a i'm

47:06
a nerd i would i would love to just sit

47:08
there and be a fly on the wall i really

47:09
would

47:10
they they need you there because they

47:13
need people that actually deal with it

47:14
on a day-to-day basis with actual humans

47:17
um but i i

47:19
you know we would love to have you back

47:21
on after they

47:22
the grand poobahs and the grand poobah

47:24
ets of social security sit down and

47:26
pontificate we'd love to have your

47:29
analysis of what they actually said or

47:31
did and what you think is coming up so

47:34
i'm pigeonholing you back in the fall

47:36
hopefully to talk about it got it for

47:38
hours

47:39
i love it i love

47:41
you know i just um

47:42
i'm just such a

47:45
advocate for consumers i just think that

47:47
we really have to take charge of our

47:50
situations um and the sooner we can do

47:53
that you know i always say when you know

47:54
people say when should i start planning

47:55
about social security or plan in

47:56
retirement i'm like now

47:58
how old you are do it now you know

48:01
the best advice i give my much younger

48:03
sisters is

48:04
have you met the roth ira or the roth

48:06
election the 401k if you haven't go run

48:08
and do it you know because you know

48:10
taxes and that could be a whole nother

48:12
conversation taxes

48:14
you know is such a huge risk in

48:16
retirement and also can impact social

48:19
security benefits um

48:21
and so just you know preemptively

48:23
starting to think about

48:25
your own retirement

48:27
long before you get to the age at which

48:29
you're making that claim decision is

48:31
just so important

48:32
um because you know we work so hard and

48:35
who wants to retirement be terrified

48:38
right

48:38
you know so i just say you know be your

48:40
own advocate read read read

48:44
from reputable sources you know agreed

48:46
so

48:47
we're to the final question it's been

48:49
it's been a ton of fun if you're out

48:50
there going

48:51
heather schreiber that name sounds

48:53
familiar you've you've heard her you've

48:55
seen her quoted in usa today in forbes

48:57
and marketwatch and all these places

48:59
she's kind of the go-to place we were

49:01
very excited when she agreed to be on

49:03
fun with annuities even though we barely

49:05
talk about annuities but today we were

49:07
which was social security the best

49:09
inflation annuity on the planet but

49:10
here's the last question i never

49:13
tell my celebrity guest host what it's

49:15
going to be i want to surprise them

49:16
because i want them to be on their feet

49:20
and react so here it is

49:23
mike drop moment heather schreiber

49:26
words of wisdom as we head out to the

49:30
the rest of the week what are your words

49:32
of wisdom

49:33
to people and then you drop the mic from

49:35
there

49:37
words of wisdom well i think i kind of

49:39
already said it out or you know i just

49:42
um

49:44
feel like no one's gonna take care of us

49:46
i mean we've got to take care of

49:48
ourselves we have to

49:51
you know it's it's tough it's tough in

49:53
this environment this market and and

49:55
taxes and all the things that are just

49:58
threats to

50:00
having you know the retirement we want

50:02
and so i just am such an advocate of you

50:05
know being

50:07
the driver being in the driver's seat of

50:08
that you know really

50:11
reading educating yourself and

50:13
and knowing what you know you know and

50:15
not relying on well they said

50:18
you know just equip yourself you know

50:21
with the knowledge that you need with

50:23
the partners that you need to make sure

50:25
that you get

50:26
um you know you're sitting in the

50:28
driver's seat in retirement instead of

50:30
being fearful because nobody wants that

50:33
that was a legitimately phenomenal mic

50:36
drop moment and that person that just

50:38
said that is heather schreiber

50:41
i think she's kind of my long-lost

50:42
sister from georgia that i didn't know

50:44
that i had because we're just kind of

50:45
twang and talk about geeky things about

50:47
finance but it's good it's good but i

50:50
appreciate you being on and i appreciate

50:51
every single one of you out there

50:53
listening to us on the podcast platforms

50:55
and viewing this on my fun with

50:57
annuities youtube channel and i will see

51:00
you

51:00
next week

51:06
thanks for listening to fun with

51:08
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51:13
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51:15
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51:40
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52:00
[Music]

52:11
you