Dana Anspach: Juicing Your Retirement Plan (TAM Classic)

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[Music]

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welcome to fun with annuities where

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every single week I welcome a celebrity

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guest expert that can help you maximize

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chapter 2 of your life listen learn

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laugh and love every minute of the most

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unique Financial podcast on the planet

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let's get to

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[Music]

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it welcome everyone to fun with

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annuities the number one annuity podcast

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on the planet I'm your host Stan the

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annuity man America's annuity agent

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licensed in all 50

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states yeah that's me today we have a

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great guest I'm so excited she's joined

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the program but before I just throw the

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ball to her and let her run with it I've

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got to tell you a little bit about her

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her name is Dana anpo and she has a uh

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Financial advice firm called sensible

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money you can go to their site at wwws

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sensible money

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she founded it in 2011 but she's been in

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the business a long time before that and

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she does all kinds of things on the if

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you go to the web uh the the site she

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has webinars she has you know you can do

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a complimentary consultation she has

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blogs I mean there's a lot there there's

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a lot to download once again sensible

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money.com and and I'll have it on my

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site as you know welcome to everyone

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listening to all the podcast platforms

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and also the people on the fun with the

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nties YouTube channel and as you know

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sty nity Man YouTube channel is a big

1:30
monster as well with all kinds of videos

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uh on annuities now as I said Dana

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founded sensible money and it is one of

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the nation's leading uh experts on

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retirement planning she is herself and

1:42
also her team um but she also focuses on

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what's called decumulation and we're

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going to talk about that she's been

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quoted by every Financial publication on

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the planet as you can well imagine she's

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recognized by Investopedia as one of the

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top 100 financial advisors I think

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they're wrong she's top 10 and I don't

2:00
know who the other nine are um and this

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award is given to those who are making

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like huge contributions to financial

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education she has one of the best books

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on retirement I've ever read it's called

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control your retirement Destiny once

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again if you go to sensible money.com

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you can download the first chapter um

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she also has a podcast that you can find

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on Apple Spotify iTunes ETC control your

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retirement Destiny this is the one I

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really like and listen up people she has

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an online course called how to plan the

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perfect retirement it can be found at

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thegreatcourses.com um and I think that

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is fantastic now let's talk a little bit

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about Dana's personal life she rides a

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Harley-Davidson my my uh research team

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tells me it's a softtail slim I have no

2:46
idea what that means but I'm sure it's

2:47
cool um she was born in Iowa but here's

2:50
where Dana and I the only thing that I

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disagree with Dana on is she's a gator

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she went to the University of Florida I

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have no idea how that even happened I'm

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sure it was a full scholarship for her

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brain but um hey Dana ons spot welcome

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to fun with

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annuities it is great to be here Stan

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you make me sound so amazing thank you

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you are amazing you're fantastic let's

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Jump Right In Dana onpo because the

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people are leaning in waiting to hear

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this now when I say the word juicing I'm

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not talking about me drinking juice

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which I do Dana has come up with

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something called juicing your retirement

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money and it's a strategy that she used

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with clients and on her site there's two

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types of juicing

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methods but I think this is fantastic um

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Dana I'm gonna throw the ball to you

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let's talk retirement juicing tell us

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what that is yeah absolutely so many

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many years ago I was having breakfast at

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this place called Butterfields I'm here

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in Scottdale Arizona and they serve

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fresh squeezed orange juice and you

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watch the oranges roll down this metal

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Contraption and into the machine and out

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comes the most delicious juice right and

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I had been making homemade Margaritas at

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home the weekend before and you're

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squeezing I I use fresh oranges in my

4:07
margaritas and squeezing them and there

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was always extra juice left over and the

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rinds and you know I I I watched those

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oranges roll through the machine and I

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thought oh my gosh I wonder how much

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extra juice they get out of each orange

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because they have the right equipment

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and this light bulb went on and I was

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like that is what we do for clients with

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the right right planning process and

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what I mean by that is not picking the

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right Investments not finding the right

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stock or or evaluating market trends but

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there is so much juice you can squeeze

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out of a retirement income plan by doing

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things in the right order by planning on

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when and how you take Social secur

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Security by coordinating that with your

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spouse rather than making independent

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Decisions by deciding whether you should

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add an annuity into your plan by tax

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optimization not just making your

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investment portfolio tax efficient but

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really figuring out when you should draw

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out of which type of account whether you

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should use rth conversions and so all of

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those things are equivalent in some

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cases to adding hundreds of thousands of

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dollars to your net worth and so that is

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the process that we trademarked and

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refer to as

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juicing love it I mean I'm glad you

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didn't call squeezing oil from a brick

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because that wouldn't have worked

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um but I I love the concept and as I you

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were explaining I'm thinking about when

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I grew up in North Carolina in the

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middle of nowhere and there was this

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drugstore and they sold what was called

5:36
orange AIDS and they they squeezed the

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juice they had this machine it got every

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single thing out I'm like I know exactly

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what you're talking about but in essence

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that's what retirees need to do right

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because you know they get to chapter two

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of their life and there's not as much

5:51
money coming in as because they're not

5:52
working or whatever you have to maximize

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right you have to maximize and a lot of

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research shows that many retirees

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actually have more wealth at the end of

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retirement than when they started

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retirement and I think a lot of that's

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there's this fear of oh my gosh you know

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I people routinely tell me now Dana you

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know you know I'm not going back to work

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and it makes me chuckle I yes that's

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what we do we only work with people

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transitioning into retirement we are

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very clear on how solid your retirement

6:23
income plan has to be in order for you

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to make that decision and truly exit the

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workforce and so yes we get that you

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have to live off of this your your

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acorns you have to live off of them the

6:33
rest of your life and it's super scary

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and so I think when people don't have

6:38
that planning process and it's not

6:40
thoroughly tested they had to hang on to

6:42
all their acorns and so for us the

6:45
process is not only about maximizing

6:47
what you have but also I want to say

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enjoying it at a reasonable pace and and

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what I mean by reasonable Paces you know

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nobody wants to go out and just spend

6:56
money for the sake of spending and a lot

6:58
of retirees wealth and savings because

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they were pretty Thrifty to start with

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which is great but you also don't want

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to you know be so Thrifty that you end

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up with all this wealth and you can't

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take it with you and all these

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experiences you didn't have and so when

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you have this process that helps show

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you that yes you know you could afford

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to gift to the children or help them out

7:20
with a down payment or help them with

7:22
tuition or take the whole family to

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Disneyland I've had clients do that or

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take the whole family on an Alaska

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cruise or you know small little things

7:31
have a house cleaner come in as your

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body aches and it's getting harder to do

7:35
the things around the home having

7:37
someone help with the lawn care th

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simple things that make your life a

7:41
little easier but you're afraid to do

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that if you're afraid of running out of

7:45
money and when you have this process

7:48
that's quantifiable and measurable and

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has set metrics that we look at it it

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helps bring that peace of mind that yes

7:56
I could afford to do that and it would

7:58
not jeopardize the 80-year-old me or the

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90-year-old me that person will still

8:03
have enough and be okay and that's what

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we love about our process is that peace

8:06
of mind it brings to allow people to you

8:10
know not necessarily splurge on useless

8:12
things but just those those small little

8:14
extras that can make a difference in

8:15
life yeah it's it's about lifestyle in

8:17
Chapter 2 I always tell people that you

8:19
know there's 10 10,000 Baby Boomers

8:21
hitting the age of 65 every single day I

8:23
mean they're they want to know that they

8:25
can live the lifestyle that they worked

8:26
hard and scrimped and saved and

8:29
sacrificed but now they're there at the

8:31
finish line and they need to achieve

8:32
that let's talk about the process a

8:35
little bit with sensible money I want

8:36
people to understand you know how you

8:39
guys work and you have a you have a

8:40
great team I've been to her offices in

8:42
Scottdale Fantastic Team they're all on

8:45
the same wavelength as Dana so you know

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Dana is a very calm calming effect if

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you're looking for just kind of a a mad

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smart chill advisor I mean that's her

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she is that person that can that can

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guide you through retirement and I've

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referred so many people to her because

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of that because that's the personality

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that I think a lot of people need um

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guiding them in retirement so they go to

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sensible money.com and by the way for

9:09
everyone sensible money is one word okay

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so sensible money.com they go there and

9:13
they sign up for the free consultation I

9:15
thought that was nice of you to provide

9:16
that considering who you are so they do

9:19
the consultation can you walk people

9:20
through what that what that

9:22
entails yeah so you know there's a a

9:25
form online it's a secure web form we

9:27
intentionally don't ask for any personal

9:30
information for example we ask for your

9:31
age not your date of birth so just to

9:34
give us some general information but

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it's a HTML secure form that comes to us

9:38
and then we set up that introductory

9:39
meeting it's typically not with me I uh

9:42
am primarily focused on managing the

9:44
team so it's one with one of our

9:45
planners who is both a certified

9:47
financial planner and holds a secondary

9:49
designation that of a retirement

9:51
management advisor and if we get to talk

9:54
about that in a little bit that would be

9:55
great uh that designation HS a very

9:58
special place in heart and has really

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helped us build our our entire proc if

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you want to segue right there and talk

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about that we'll come back let's talk

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about that specific designation and why

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that's important in combination with the

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cfp absolutely so the cfp we would think

10:13
of as like a bachelor's degree and the

10:15
RMA designation like getting your

10:17
Masters in retirement decumulation

10:20
meaning what are all the risk factors

10:23
that someone now at that point in time

10:24
where they're spending their money they

10:26
need to live off of this uh nest egg for

10:29
for the rest of their life what are all

10:30
of those factors and they are different

10:32
things and back in

10:34
2010 I was seeking additional

10:37
information on this decumulation phase

10:39
and came across this conference that was

10:41
being held at the Morning Star offices

10:43
in Chicago and I fell upon the RMA

10:46
designation was in in the very first

10:48
class to acquire the designation in 2010

10:51
what I fell in love with was it was a

10:53
room full of phds and mbas and people

10:56
not sales people I've been to a lot of

10:58
conferences were about selling product

11:01
these people were really trying to solve

11:03
this problem of how do we make people's

11:05
money last and how different it is and

11:08
the accumulation phase and the type of

11:10
analytical testing that has to happen to

11:13
make sure a plan is going to work and it

11:16
just it just spoke to me I was like this

11:18
is it and my entire book was based on

11:20
the principles that I learned in the RMA

11:23
designation because I came out of that

11:24
going you know what the industry isn't

11:26
doing it right they're still so focused

11:28
on accumulating assets which is

11:30
relatively easy compared to the math

11:33
problem you have to solve when you start

11:35
drawing money out and so it it was you

11:38
know an inspiration to me all of our

11:40
planners in order to work with retirees

11:43
that are are getting ready or or near

11:45
retirement they have to uh get the RMA

11:47
designation we actually pay for them to

11:49
acquire it so we think it's super

11:50
valuable it's a way of thinking about

11:53
the problem and that way of thinking is

11:55
what we apply throughout our entire

11:58
planning process so you're sitting down

12:00
with the client the initial consultation

12:02
they're giving you obviously

12:02
confidential information not detailed

12:05
but everything I mean you don't share it

12:06
or or sell it or anything like that but

12:09
they're going to give you that and then

12:10
from there what happens yeah so we so

12:13
part of what we do in that introductory

12:14
meeting is explain our process so when

12:17
you hire us it is a series of strategy

12:21
meetings that we engage in and at each

12:24
strategy meeting we run one of three

12:26
different what we call retirement

12:28
Readiness test

12:30
so the very first meeting you is really

12:33
around does your plan work from a 30,000

12:36
foot view you have this much assets now

12:40
and this much future income coming in

12:41
from Social Security rental annuities

12:43
defer comp stock options whatever it may

12:45
be we're projecting all of that out in a

12:47
timeline format along with your

12:49
projected retirement expenses including

12:51
health care and adding inflation and you

12:53
know maybe future home purchases

12:55
whatever it might be and saying in in

12:58
big picture terms does it work do you

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have enough to retire when you want to

13:02
retire and maintain your lifestyle and

13:04
if it doesn't how do we begin to tweak

13:07
it would you need to work a little

13:08
longer spend a little less downsize what

13:11
are the factors that would make it work

13:13
and we try to frame that in terms of

13:14
choices so some people will say gosh you

13:19
know if I could downsize and reduce my

13:21
expenses by 10 or 20,000 a year are you

13:23
telling me I could retire next year done

13:25
deal right they they are ready to be

13:27
done other people would rather work till

13:29
they're 70 or even mid 70s I've

13:32
encountered people who you know enjoy it

13:34
and and they want to keep contributing

13:36
they don't want to retire but they like

13:39
the Peace of Mind knowing that they

13:40
could so people are very different uh

13:43
but that first meeting helps helps Bring

13:45
That Into You know what are what what

13:47
kind of factors are we working with here

13:50
in strategy two and I will say most

13:53
Financial plans that we see particularly

13:55
anyone's marked as free or from you know

13:57
major firms all they do is what we do in

14:00
our strategy one meeting is this big

14:02
picture high level oh you have this much

14:04
your probability of success is you know

14:07
it's it's cookie cutter your process is

14:09
not cookie cutter definitely correct

14:11
correct you we start with the cookie

14:13
cutter because it gives us a very

14:15
general the foundation Foundation then

14:18
in strategy two is where we get into

14:20
what I call the juicing part where we

14:22
start playing around with factors how do

14:24
we optimize Social Security what is your

14:27
tax rate now are they going to be years

14:29
where we could realize taxes at a 0% or

14:32
a lower capital gains rate than what

14:33
your current rate is are there going to

14:35
be years where Roth conversions are

14:37
going to make sense should you be

14:38
contributing to your Roth 401k or your

14:41
traditional 401K right should you be

14:43
contributing more to a defer

14:45
Compensation Plan uh or less and so and

14:48
I've had just in the last 12 months

14:51
cases that came back with completely

14:53
opposite answers on that question right

14:55
there one client where we said you know

14:57
you only have two years left you're

14:59
actually contributing too much to your

15:00
Deferred Comp we need you to ratchet it

15:01
back and another one based on their tax

15:03
rates where we said you could actually

15:05
up yours a little bit so yeah we can't

15:08
answer that question without all of the

15:10
details where we are projecting your

15:12
income and your actual you running your

15:14
income through a 1040 tax calculator so

15:17
that we can see exactly what your tax

15:20
return may look like and and make

15:21
decisions that help improve the outcome

15:24
so strategy 2 is where we're digging

15:27
into those things and often building

15:29
custom schedules for people that have

15:31
stock options or restricted stock units

15:34
or annuities you know annuities have as

15:37
you know all kinds of interesting

15:38
features where the income can kick in

15:40
later or kick in now and traditional

15:42
software doesn't allow you to account

15:45
for these things very easily so we have

15:47
to build these custom schedules so that

15:49
it can be treated accurately for taxes

15:51
and accurately for cashlow and so at

15:54
strategy two we are running the second

15:57
what we call retirement Readiness test

15:59
which is a test that works much like a

16:01
pension plan so if any of your listeners

16:03
have pension plans they will send you an

16:05
annual funded letter right you know your

16:07
plan's 80% funded or 92 or 71 uh oh and

16:13
so what that funded this calculation

16:16
does for a pension plan is it looks at

16:19
all of the future cash flows that the

16:21
pension plan has to deliver the

16:22
paychecks and it translates those cash

16:26
flows into a present value what do

16:28
dollar amount does the pension plan need

16:30
to have in assets today to meet those

16:33
future obligations well we do the same

16:36
thing at a household level for a retiree

16:39
nice we project all their cash flows

16:41
that they're going to need from their

16:43
portfolio we take the present value and

16:45
just like a pension plan we calculate

16:48
your household funded level so that is a

16:52
you hear about the 4% rule where you you

16:55
can withdraw 4% of your assets per year

16:57
but in reality spending doesn't work

16:59
that way some years we need to buy a car

17:02
or we have a family situation or a

17:04
vacation and so we don't spend the same

17:07
amount and what the funded test does is

17:10
it helps us project a lot of these lumpy

17:12
cash flow items and say it it's like a

17:15
lifetime 4% rle over your lifetime right

17:19
does the amount of spending that that we

17:21
have projected for you make sense based

17:23
on your assets so we love it um it

17:25
allows us to very easily test lumpy

17:28
items you know people say can I buy this

17:30
second house could I afford this car

17:32
that I want and and we can very quickly

17:34
give an answer even though it might mean

17:36
a larger withdrawal in in that single

17:38
year and then we move on to strategy

17:41
three which is when we start to dig into

17:44
this the construction of the portfolio

17:47
and so we don't get to that till last we

17:49
want to optimize someone's plan based on

17:51
all of these other non-investment levers

17:55
and then the last thing we look at is

17:57
now that we understand

17:59
the job each account has to do and let

18:01
me take a simple example of a husband

18:03
and wife that might have a 10year age

18:05
difference and their retirement accounts

18:09
are often invested with the same asset

18:11
allocation 60% stocks 40% bonds right

18:14
but we go well you know the husband is

18:17
going to have to start withdrawing or

18:19
taking his required minimum

18:20
distributions at his age now 72 and the

18:23
wife won't have to start hers till 10

18:25
years later so the job the cash those

18:29
accounts have to deliver have a very

18:31
different time frame right and so when

18:33
we get down to that account by account

18:35
level it leads to allocating each

18:39
account so that it matches up to the

18:42
cash flow needs it needs to deliver and

18:44
so you might not have each account

18:46
allocated 60 40 or 70 30 or whatever it

18:49
may be each one is specifically aligned

18:52
to the particular job that it has to do

18:55
and that can help reduce certain types

18:57
of risks that face when you're drawing

18:59
out it can also allow other accounts

19:02
like Roth IRAs to be 100% invested in

19:04
growth where they have the opportunity

19:06
to earn or the possibility of earning

19:09
higher returns and and growing in a

19:11
tax-free environment so there's all

19:12
kinds of good things that can happen

19:14
over long time frames when you pay

19:16
attention to all these details and make

19:18
sure that everything lines up I know

19:21
that there's so much more to it than

19:22
that but I want to stop here and I want

19:24
I want to ask everyone listening and

19:25
viewing this to I want you to think

19:28
about your current advisor if you have

19:30
one or not but let's just say you have

19:31
one are they even in the ballpark of

19:34
being that detailed for goodness sake

19:36
one of the things you said was was you

19:38
don't want your retirement to be lumpy

19:40
the only thing you want lumpy Dana is

19:41
your oatmeal or your your mashed

19:43
potatoes preferably mashed potatoes but

19:46
you don't want your retirement to be

19:47
lumpy and what I want to tell people is

19:49
is this process is worth it I mean it's

19:52
like you it's a financial physical I

19:54
know that's cliche but you have to take

19:56
this stuff serious and one of the

19:58
reasons I want to Dana on is for her to

19:59
explain the process so that you can go

20:01
wait a minute that sounds legit because

20:03
it is and why is it my person doing that

20:05
which is a good question which then

20:07
leads you to go to sensible money.com

20:09
and at least interview them to see if

20:11
it's a good fit one of the things you

20:13
mentioned in there day and I want to I

20:14
want to Pivot um because I was on your

20:16
site and you had a really good download

20:19
that I loved it was and it was called

20:21
four things retirees need to know about

20:23
the 4% Rule and you just mentioned the

20:25
4% rule but but I'm glad you mentioned

20:28
it because it we into this let's cover

20:30
those four things and again you can go

20:32
to her site and download it hello um

20:36
four things retirees need to know about

20:38
the 4 perent rule what are those for so

20:41
I don't know if I'll get them in order

20:43
we'll see and you'll cue me if I miss

20:45
one that's right that's right yeah

20:46
that's right I've got you so inflation

20:49
um when you look at the 4% rule it it

20:51
generally if you had a million dollars

20:53
it would say you could withdraw 40,000 a

20:55
year and increase that with inflation

20:57
you know over 30-year time frame and

21:00
have a very high probability that you

21:02
would never run out of money that's and

21:04
that's great and yet when you look at

21:07
how inflation actually impacts

21:10
retirees it often doesn't impact them as

21:14
much as you might think and so take

21:17
today's environment as an example most

21:20
of our retirees already own a home uh

21:23
many of them have a mortgage that's paid

21:25
off uh if they didn't they often

21:26
refinance just got lower rates and

21:28
locked in that cost and so inflating

21:31
housing prices right now are not having

21:33
any negative impact on them unless they

21:36
want to downsize but based on their

21:38
current you know their wealth is growing

21:39
on paper but the house is not a

21:41
consumable right they they need to live

21:43
somewhere contrast that with someone

21:45
that's 30 years old and trying to buy

21:47
their first home inflating home prices

21:50
right now are having a big impact on

21:52
them so inflation in that asset is

21:55
impacting these different demographic

21:57
segments quite differently and so we see

22:00
that in many cases throughout retirement

22:02
and there's a lot of research that has

22:03
shown that yes retirees need their cash

22:06
flow to increase each year to keep up

22:08
with Rising prices they don't need it to

22:11
increase at the same Pace as inflation

22:13
and so we're able to build in customized

22:16
inflation assumptions based on the

22:18
demographic of the household uh higher

22:20
net worth households inflation has a a

22:23
lower negative impact on them that makes

22:25
sense if I'm retiring on 40,000 or

22:28
50,000 a year and the price of energy

22:31
gas you know milk groceries go Health

22:33
Care goes up that's a big bite of my

22:35
budget if I'm retiring on$ 150,000 or

22:38
$200,000 a year I easily absorb those

22:42
price increases and and it doesn't have

22:44
have as big of a negative impact on me

22:46
so that's one of the areas that the 4%

22:48
rule you know treats all people equally

22:51
when in reality inflation does not

22:53
impact all people equ your housing

22:55
example was fantastic it does it does

22:58
affect

22:59
different demographics differently hate

23:01
to say different different differently

23:02
but um that's a really good point so

23:05
inflation what's the second the second

23:07
would be taxes and so again if I have

23:11
all my money in an IRA and the 4 per

23:13
rule says you I can take 40,000 a year

23:16
out and I don't factor in income taxes

23:19
well if my tax rate's 32% or even 28%

23:23
you know I don't actually get to spend

23:25
40,000 a year right I'm lucky if I get

23:28
30,000 a year after taxes and and then

23:30
you have to factor in state taxes not

23:32
just federal taxes but if I have my

23:34
entire million dollars in a non Ira

23:39
portfolio and much of that is structured

23:42
to take advantage of capital gains rates

23:45
and qualified dividend rates which can

23:47
be incredibly low I might pay almost

23:50
nothing in taxes on that $40,000 that I

23:53
want to withdraw so the 4% role doesn't

23:56
help people distinguish between after

23:58
after tax income or gross income and so

24:01
if you have all your money in your

24:02
qualified Ira 401K 403b type accounts it

24:06
can be very misleading you're going

24:08
along thinking great I'll have 40,000 a

24:10
year to draw out of this account not so

24:12
fast a big chunk of that's going to

24:14
Uncle Sam so again you know to when you

24:16
get mere retirement you need very

24:18
customized projections that do take that

24:20
into account so you can actually

24:22
estimate what you have available to

24:24
spend not gross yeah number three number

24:29
three so let's see if I can can remember

24:32
what I put in as number three it or

24:34
number four just go either way number

24:36
four yeah I believe one of them was was

24:39
simply spending so we don't spend in

24:43
nice even amounts and so this is what I

24:46
alluded to with uh my earlier comment

24:48
about using a household 4% what we call

24:51
a funded rate is we buy cars we you know

24:55
go or Harley-Davidson motorcycles yes or

24:59
soft tail Slims which I was very Softail

25:01
Slim Harley-Davidson yeah how about that

25:04
very impressed with your research

25:07
team they deserve you know a bonus for

25:11
that one so some people buy

25:12
Harley-Davidson's on a whim so spending

25:14
yeah so keep going I'm sorry yes you

25:16
don't spend in a nice even amount and

25:20
when you have other income sources I

25:22
know this is one of the things in that

25:23
report also you know like Social

25:26
Security coming in well let's say I want

25:28
to retire at 62 and I if I've done my

25:32
homework and I have a healthy you know

25:34
relatively healthy life uh I probably

25:38
shouldn't start Social Security till age

25:40
70 well I have this Gap where it might

25:43
be perfectly okay for me to withdraw a

25:45
lot more than 4% from my portfolio for

25:48
that eight-year window because then once

25:50
Social Security kicks in I might only

25:52
need to withdraw 2% a year from my

25:54
portfolio to supplement my Social

25:56
Security but I don't want to wait until

25:59
Social Security kicks in at 70 to have a

26:01
certain lifestyle so I so I want to draw

26:03
enough out in those inter intermediary

26:05
years well usually when you when you do

26:07
the planning right that can be perfectly

26:09
sustainable right if I was only using

26:12
the 4% rule I would say oh no you know I

26:14
either need to start my Social Security

26:16
early or I'll have to work longer it

26:17
wouldn't be easily apparent that your

26:19
portfolio could sustain those those

26:21
extra withdrawals so I may have just

26:23
combined uh item three and item four

26:25
into into one in terms of lumpy spending

26:29
which is the reality we don't spend a

26:31
nice even amount each year and the 4%

26:33
rule does not help us account for other

26:36
sources of income you know Social

26:38
Security annuity income rental income

26:41
and pension income the fact that spouses

26:44
have income sources that start at

26:45
different ages and so all of these

26:47
things create a varied pattern of cash

26:51
flow during retirement and what you need

26:53
is withdrawals to supplement those other

26:55
sources and that really works out to a

26:57
nice me 4% number once again sensible

27:00
money.com you can download the full book

27:03
and the details she's just glossing over

27:05
and just trying to you know someone with

27:07
her IQ she has to talk down to us as

27:09
people just to make it simple she is mad

27:13
smart and one of my favorite advisers in

27:15
the country um I have to add something

27:19
what's that so in I was talking about I

27:22
know this is in the the report that's

27:24
available as a download but the other

27:26
item the 4% R doesn't account for is

27:28
what I call it's not my term I didn't

27:31
make it up but it's referred to as goo

27:32
spending so in retirees yeah there's

27:35
this pattern of we retire we have go- go

27:37
our go- go years and people tend to

27:40
spend more and then you enter your slowo

27:42
years where spending actually decreases

27:44
and inflation adjusted terms and then

27:46
you often reach the what we call the

27:48
no-go years where you're spending more

27:49
on health care and help around the home

27:52
well during those go- go years you know

27:54
when we project spending and retirement

27:56
we project it in this l way but if you

27:59
account for this pattern you can

28:01
actually show people that during your

28:03
go- go years you might be able to afford

28:05
to travel more and do some of those

28:06
extras while you're still mobile and

28:08
healthy and then we're going to taper

28:11
off that spending during your slowo

28:13
years and then it might creep back up in

28:16
in later years with Healthcare but

28:18
you're allow you you you want to

28:19
customize that and that that is the

28:21
other thing the four% rule simply so it

28:23
could be go go no go and can't go it

28:26
could be

28:29
no exactly um interesting I mean I I

28:33
really like your unique take on things I

28:36
mean you obviously in the financial

28:37
planning world and the world that you're

28:39
in um there's been a lot of ideas I

28:41
think you've taken the really good ideas

28:43
and you've uh daifi them uh for lack of

28:47
a better phrase but I think that that

28:50
you've done it in a in a way that

28:51
clients can fully you know understand

28:54
the process which I always say people if

28:56
you can't explain it to a nine-year-old

28:57
don't buy it no offense to

28:59
nine-year-olds your system is complex

29:02
yet understandable which is the reason

29:04
that I really like it and gravitate

29:06
toward it I want to Pivot a little bit

29:08
and and cover some things that um you

29:10
know when we kind of announce to our

29:12
clients and there's a lot of non-clients

29:14
out there as well that we were going to

29:16
talk with you they wanted to get your

29:18
take on on a lot of things one of them

29:20
was and obviously I'm not going to hold

29:22
you to the answer because nobody knows

29:23
the perfect answer but give us your

29:25
overall um Outlook at the time of this

29:28
taping so everyone listening and viewing

29:30
look at the look at the date so if

29:31
you're listening three years from now

29:32
it's dated just markets in general

29:34
interest rates just just the O your

29:36
overall you've done this a long long

29:38
time um what's your overall feel about

29:41
where we're at right now at the time of

29:43
this taping you know I started in 95 as

29:46
a financial planner or what we were

29:47
called a registered rep at the time and

29:50
so I went through the do you know Bull

29:54
Run and uh I will tell you you know in

29:57
the late 90s uh I remember people who

29:59
wanted to put 100% of their money in

30:02
science and technology mutual funds and

30:04
I remember asking one person to sign a

30:06
disclosure form because I wasn't

30:08
comfortable with that right and

30:10
eventually it all crashed and you know

30:13
here you were at the time trying to give

30:15
advice on diversification and not not

30:17
chasing these Trends and and and it was

30:19
very difficult uh to get people to do

30:22
something that would be in their

30:23
long-term best interest and then we went

30:25
through you know that was essentially

30:26
almost a threeyear

30:28
downturn of 99 2000 2001 then of course

30:32
we had the run up to 2005 where we had

30:34
this crazy bull real estate market and

30:37
then the the ensuing crash I had clients

30:40
that uh retired in December of 2007 they

30:43
are fine it was super scary but we had

30:47
stress tested the plans and nobody had

30:49
to go back to work and you know it works

30:52
planning Works uh and so then I've been

30:54
through you know the

30:56
ensuing de since then where it seems

31:00
that every year you know people are

31:02
waiting for that next crash sure and we

31:06
of course got that during the pandemic

31:08
from from as usual some unforeseen

31:11
outside event and now here we are at

31:13
what people have have often referred to

31:15
as an incredibly overvalued stock market

31:18
and the truth is nobody knows I mean

31:20
yeah exactly there are so many headwinds

31:25
good I suppose I should call them almost

31:27
Tailwinds

31:28
that we could look at of course there's

31:30
headwinds too but there's a lot of

31:32
incredible things happening with

31:34
technology that can improve productivity

31:36
right now and you know can the stock

31:40
market continue on the sustained double

31:42
digigit returns no it never can So my

31:46
answer when people asked me about the

31:48
market had a client asked me a few weeks

31:49
ago so you know when when's is there

31:51
going to be a bare market and I said yes

31:54
I always answer yes absolutely I just

31:56
don't know when don't know when and so

32:00
what you got to do is prepare your

32:02
portfolio for that you have to have some

32:05
type of rules based system to take gains

32:08
off the table we are doing that

32:10
aggressively right now okay so these

32:13
gains incredible gains we've seen in the

32:15
last year you take some of those gains

32:17
and you park them into a a safer low

32:20
volatility it's not going to earn much

32:22
the price of safety is a low return so

32:24
you have to accept that but you're

32:26
parking some of that in a safe place so

32:28
that you can use it to to draw out of

32:30
when you when you need to in terms of

32:32
interest rates you know again since the

32:36
Great Recession we have been saying that

32:38
there will be higher interest rates in

32:40
the future and we had just started to

32:43
see 2% yields on money market funds in

32:45
January of 2020 before this hit I

32:49
remember so excited like I can earn 2%

32:51
on a money market fund again oh my gosh

32:54
uh it's been since 2006 since we had

32:56
seen that right and now here we are um

32:59
back to zero it won't stay that way and

33:01
so I my answer to all these Market

33:04
questions is don't get caught up in

33:06
these these

33:08
minutia the media focuses on the minutia

33:11
as if it was a sports game and they're

33:13
calling out the play byplay after 25

33:16
years of doing this none of that is

33:18
really going to impact your retirement

33:20
security you are going to harm yourself

33:22
more by trying to guess what's going to

33:25
happen next and guessing wrong

33:28
then what you can accomplish by simply

33:30
following a discipline plan that's

33:32
designed for a 20 or 30y year time frame

33:35
as I always tell people these are old

33:37
old cliches the Bell doesn't ring at the

33:39
top or the bottom right Bulls make money

33:42
pigs get slaughtered as they always say

33:44
but it's hard for people to uh you know

33:46
in the go- go times I'm assuming you're

33:48
getting calls on crypto Dana ons spot so

33:52
uh let's let's get the Dana anbot take

33:54
on crypto and you you're you're not

33:56
allowed to use the word the words tulip

33:58
bulbs so go well I actually am a big fan

34:03
of crypto and so neat yeah so I uh

34:07
started a deep dive on crypto well well

34:09
over a year ago now I heard uh Tyrone

34:12
Ross is his name he founded a company

34:14
called onramp which is helping financial

34:17
advisers uh deliver digital asset

34:20
portfolios to their clients I heard him

34:22
speak at an industry event that really

34:24
you know piqued my interest for for me

34:27
to go so okay there is something there I

34:30
have to learn more about it this just

34:31
isn't Bitcoin and the latest fad which

34:33
is how I thought about it before it's

34:35
not you're correct yeah and so I started

34:39
consuming books podcasts every website

34:42
article I could find I started investing

34:45
I opened about five different crypto

34:47
accounts and learned how to move money

34:49
from wallets and do all of this weird

34:50
stuff now there's certainly ways to

34:52
invest in what we refer to is digital

34:55
assets without doing all this weird

34:56
stuff but I wanted to learn how it

34:58
worked and so you know I would transfer

35:01
you know $50 something small that if I

35:03
did it wrong or lost it I you know

35:05
wasn't G to hurt me so I could figure

35:07
out and learn what this crazy quote

35:10
crypto world was my conclusion is it is

35:14
a new investable asset class and so

35:18
digital assets you know I think in as

35:20
soon as 10 years possibly sooner we will

35:23
see the digital world essentially

35:26
replace a lot of the typical banking

35:29
functions and stock trading functions

35:32
that really happen very manually right

35:34
now so think about music and your old

35:37
eight tracks and then your cette tapes

35:38
and then your CDs and now who even has

35:41
CDs exactly it went digital well money

35:45
is still incredibly manual even the the

35:47
process of a credit card transaction is

35:49
so Antiquated compared to music or

35:53
movies or so many other things that that

35:55
are digital now and so money is is going

35:58
digital what that's going to look like

36:00
in its final form I don't know um you

36:03
know will we see additional regulation

36:06
yes we've seen enough regulation earlier

36:09
this year and actually late last year

36:12
that institutions started getting more

36:14
comfortable adding Bitcoin to their

36:16
balance sheet uh you know banks are

36:18
allowed to custody digital assets now so

36:21
the people who are saying it's going to

36:23
get regulated out it's not going away

36:27
evolve absolutely yeah you know there's

36:30
over 5,000 cryptocurrencies out there

36:33
right now you know just like the the

36:35
Doom era many of those didn't make it

36:38
yeah most most want you said something

36:40
that I wrote down that I've never heard

36:42
it put this way but I think it's the

36:43
best thing I've heard on crypto is that

36:46
money should not be manual um and right

36:49
now it's manual and that's a really good

36:52
way to put it and eventually it will not

36:54
be manual because the market will demand

36:56
it to not be manual and not be hard and

37:00
so I think I think the blockchain I've

37:02
said this on numerous podcasts the

37:03
blockchain technology is legit crypto is

37:08
writing on top of that we just don't

37:10
know which crypto version is going to be

37:12
the winner at the end right yes okay

37:14
exactly and you know Rick Edelman uh

37:16
started a new certification in digital

37:19
assets that I actually went through his

37:22
program and and finished it of course

37:24
Rick did why wouldn't Rick do that he's

37:26
doing everything else for God

37:28
six and so you know the take on it

37:31
throughout that course was for most

37:33
people an allocation of 1% is sufficient

37:36
it's new it's speculative it's emerging

37:40
and so you know we have a framework here

37:43
uh you know if our clients are

37:45
interested in crypto or if they fit that

37:47
type of risk profile uh we will invest

37:49
them in a a publicly traded version uh

37:53
it's one of the uh the trusts so it's

37:56
eth the ticker symbol is eth and small

38:00
small allocations 1% at Max 3% if it's a

38:03
more risk tolerant client in their Roth

38:05
IRAs ideally where we put things that we

38:08
think have the PO eth e Edward Tom Harry

38:13
Edward right yes it is essentially a a

38:16
publicly traded trust it trades like a

38:20
stock okay all it owns is ethereum and

38:24
ethereum is a cryptocurrency a digital

38:28
asset that a lot of smart contracts in a

38:31
whole world of Finance called

38:32
decentralized finan is being built on

38:35
top of ethereum it's essentially

38:37
programming language and uh you know

38:40
buying the cryptocurrency is allowing

38:43
you to own a little piece of the

38:45
technology and it it earns fees when

38:49
when people use it and there's a whole

38:51
lot more I could could you know go on

38:54
well they they got to go to sensible

38:55
money.com and find out to me it feels

38:58
you know I'm I'm I'm dating myself Dana

39:00
looks like she just got out of college

39:01
at University of Florida and she's going

39:03
go Gator but I don't I you know I I I

39:06
just remember how this all played out in

39:09
the in the dot era but it re but reminds

39:12
me Dana of when I was at Dean Witter

39:15
Morgan Stanley UBS Payne Weber of

39:17
managed Futures you put a small

39:19
percentage of your portfolio less than

39:22
five obviously you're saying one which

39:23
is great but um that's the way I look at

39:26
it are you actively with clients that

39:29
understand it are you actively putting

39:31
that in their portfolios or advising

39:33
that for a few clients and again 1%

39:36
allocations yes we are and uh you know

39:39
we think with a we we replace so in our

39:42
portfolio models we use small cap or

39:44
small cap value as a part of their asset

39:47
class and so we will say this you know

39:50
digital asset is replacing 1% part of

39:54
the allocation that we would normally

39:55
have in small cap value which is an

39:57
aggressive asset class anyway and so we

40:00
want to look at it as a 5 to sevene hold

40:03
time yes it's highly volatile uh so

40:07
expect that it can be down 50% in a week

40:10
sure that's just the way it works and

40:12
it's not appropriate for everybody but

40:15
for people that have higher risk

40:16
tolerances in very small allocations we

40:19
think it has a lot of potential when I'm

40:21
looking out five 10 years not something

40:24
I'm going to trade agreed and and I

40:26
think as we've seen seen before and the

40:28
housing bubble and all the stuff the com

40:29
era people that shouldn't be going all

40:32
in are going all in and they're

40:33
leveraging going all in you so I mean it

40:36
will work itself out you know it'll

40:37
bottom itself out and and it will clean

40:39
out the speculators and then it will be

40:42
I think legitimate going forward I had a

40:44
question that but but once again Dane

40:47
onpo saying money should not be manual

40:50
is is the take away from that crypto

40:52
discussion which I think defines the

40:55
reason that it's going to be here you

40:57
know money is hard pennies and nickels

40:59
and dimes are hard credit cards are

41:01
actually hard she is right about that

41:03
but I want to Pivot something um there's

41:06
a lot of um there's a lot of wealth

41:08
transfer going on you know I always say

41:10
inheritance is the best business you

41:11
could ever be in it's foolproof you just

41:14
have to be there okay when when you are

41:18
talking to clients there's there's

41:20
either clients that are saying Hey I

41:23
want to give money away or make sure

41:26
that my my family's going to live well

41:27
but I don't want them to show up you

41:29
know in a helicopter to my funeral and

41:31
then helicopter off to the boat they

41:33
just bought and then there's the other

41:35
side which I kind of want to pick your

41:36
brain on people that are going to

41:39
inherit

41:40
money is that part of the overall plan

41:42
for both sides of that wealth

41:44
transfer yeah you know it's not too

41:47
often that we have people that want to

41:50
include an inheritance in their

41:52
projection model sometimes they do but

41:56
most people are um one they might just

42:00
not feel right about that so but it

42:04
happens when it happens I think though

42:06
that I think more and more people need

42:08
to do that yeah they and there's other

42:12
people who will Factor it in in the back

42:15
of their mind and so they might say you

42:17
know I don't I don't want to include

42:18
this in my plan but you know does my

42:21
plan work you know I just had someone

42:23
you know does my plan work if I buy this

42:25
condo in Florida this is a client that

42:26
lives in Texas sure you know yes and you

42:29
know he's right on that cusp of where we

42:31
want to see his metrics come in the

42:33
retirement Readiness test but in his

42:35
mind he also knows it's just he and his

42:37
brother and they're going to inherit a

42:39
substantial sum in his mom's 90 and so

42:41
he's like okay you know if he didn't

42:44
have that he probably wouldn't feel

42:47
comfortable moving forward with the plan

42:50
in Florida so basically we we can stress

42:53
test it and say well if that didn't

42:55
materialize at some point you probably

42:57
have to sell either the Texas home or

42:59
the Florida home one or the other you're

43:01
not going to be destitute but because he

43:03
knows he's has an inheritance coming it

43:04
just made them that much more

43:06
comfortable moving forward with

43:07
something um and where we often get

43:10
involved is when The Inheritance

43:12
actually happens and now people are

43:14
waiting through you know what are the

43:16
tax consequences should I sell these

43:18
assets how do I invest these assets W I

43:21
didn't know I was getting this much now

43:23
what can I do can I upgrade my home or

43:26
you know do some of these other things

43:28
and so that's always you know a fun

43:30
situation to be in to be able to show

43:33
people that the difference that it's

43:34
going to make in their current lifestyle

43:37
would that be under Grim Reaper

43:40
juicing like you show a rotten orange

43:42
you're like we have to factor in the

43:44
rotten orange you know because because I

43:47
love the whole juicing thing um right

43:50
now I mean what are the biggest when you

43:51
talk to retirees either pre-retirees

43:53
people that are retired or people that

43:56
are coming to you that have been retired

43:57
for a while and they're they're

43:58
switching to your platform and your and

44:01
your

44:02
advice what's the biggest worry that

44:04
people is it is it health care is it

44:06
long-term care is it interest rates is

44:08
it outliving their money what is it what

44:10
are people really stressed about right

44:12
now yeah so I wish I could you know

44:16
quantify that into one thing but it's

44:18
all kinds of things I mean the biggest

44:20
reason people seek us is can I retire

44:23
and I want to know I won't run out of

44:25
money very simple

44:27
big picture um and then they know it's

44:30
all we do is this type of retirement

44:33
income planning and so their current

44:36
adviser usually doesn't do this type of

44:38
income planning I was just talking to

44:40
one of my colleagues in the hallway

44:41
right before I I joined you on this

44:42
podcast and he was saying you know this

44:45
gentleman that that just hired him you

44:46
know just sold his business or is in the

44:48
middle of of doing the final paperwork

44:50
and has an insurance agent and has a a

44:52
stock broker but they're all like you

44:54
know telling them this telling them that

44:56
but no can actually lay out the road

44:58
mapap for them of how much money can

45:01
they have and how and what can they

45:02
afford and so we find that really what

45:05
they want to know you know how much can

45:07
I have and am I taking advantage of

45:11
everything I should be taking advantage

45:13
of you know the whole what we call

45:14
juicing process right am I doing it

45:16
right am I taking social security at the

45:19
optimal time should I be taking my

45:21
pension at this age or that age should I

45:22
be buying an annuity does that make

45:24
sense for me based on my longevity

45:27
uh should I be spending this much or is

45:30
that going to be too much should I be

45:31
taking money out of my IRA or should I

45:33
be taking it out of this trust account

45:36
or or brokerage account over here and

45:38
what should I sell and think about every

45:40
year when you're taking money out you're

45:42
having to sell something to raise cash

45:45
to withdraw and even that decision can

45:48
stress people out what should I sell

45:51
should I sell this or this in this

45:53
account or that account and so they can

45:55
be coming to us for all of those reasons

45:58
but it's usually in a really big picture

46:01
term peace of mind and wanting to know

46:04
that the latest election or the latest

46:06
interest rates or the latest

46:08
infrastructure bill or whatever it may

46:10
be is not going to derail their

46:13
retirement plan and once again people

46:15
need to to hang on to the word de cumul

46:19
decumulation and don't let that scare

46:21
you again decumulation not accumulation

46:24
decumulation is where we're all going to

46:26
be in chapter 2 of our lives and you

46:29
need someone like Dana to to guide you

46:31
through those Waters it's choppy it's

46:33
always going to be choppy it's always

46:34
going to be volatile but if the plan's

46:36
in place and you stick to the plan and

46:38
you don't react emotionally you know

46:40
you're going to get through it um how do

46:43
you handle that when the when the let's

46:44
just say markets go down um are are your

46:48
clients ready for that do people panic

46:51
and if they do Panic do you just refer

46:53
them back to the plan and I'm assuming

46:55
that helps correct

46:57
it you would think

46:59
so so you know I'll tell you a funny

47:03
story and I'm going to go back to to

47:05
bitcoin and crypto for a second so you

47:07
know I told you I started my deep dive

47:09
last year and so I bought ,000 worth of

47:13
bitcoin and and ethereum and it went

47:16
down and then it went back up and it was

47:19
up a $100 over where I bought it and I

47:21
was like oh my God it's up I sold and so

47:25
and now in my mind when I bought it I

47:28
said this is a 10e hold time $1,000

47:31
$1,000 is not going to make or break my

47:33
plan and so my own self something

47:37
outside of the normal way of investing

47:39
emotional reaction watching that made me

47:42
just laugh I thought oh my goodness you

47:44
need a financial advisor you told

47:48
yourself Dana ons spot walks down the

47:51
hall and hires one of her one of her

47:53
people to manage her money right yeah I

47:56
said you told yourself a 10e hold time

47:58
and you managed to last two weeks or

48:01
something it happens to the best of them

48:02
Dana I'm that is hilarious it was great

48:05
and so you know it just reminded me of

48:08
the value of what we do uh when things

48:11
happen like last March and the markets

48:13
are down substantially we remind clients

48:16
that we don't have to sell anything

48:18
right now the money you're using to live

48:22
off of is already in a safe stable

48:24
investment we designed it that way we

48:27
call it a a Runway into retirement

48:29
matter of fact you could live off the

48:31
safe stable part of your portfolio for

48:34
the next five seven in some cases 10

48:37
years before we would have to sell a

48:39
single one of your stock Investments wow

48:42
and the clients that get that it does

48:45
bring them peace of mind sometimes we

48:47
have to remind them we would have on the

48:50
same day one client emailing us Thanking

48:53
us because they really understood the

48:55
portfolio structure saying thank you I I

48:57
just feel so much more relaxed than I

48:59
did during the last Market downturn

49:01
because I get it at the same day I would

49:03
have other clients panicked sure because

49:06
they were just looking at the Topline

49:08
number on paper and that you know their

49:10
portfolio was down some enormous amount

49:14
and I remember this one client you know

49:17
$5 million client you know big big

49:20
number and he's like I just don't see

49:23
how it could ever get back to its Target

49:26
rate r a return not six months later we

49:30
were back on Target and he just you know

49:34
they can't see it in the time because

49:35
your emotions can get so tied up in that

49:39
number on paper and that's where we can

49:41
really add a lot of value is is helping

49:44
people step back and not make any rash

49:46
decisions at that point if that client

49:49
had made a rash decision he would have a

49:51
million dollars less today than what he

49:53
has and you know that value you of of

49:57
that calm you know somebody to explain

49:59
and keep you on track you know when your

50:01
emotions get in the way which is just

50:03
normal we're normal humans look at me

50:05
with my Bitcoin that's right that's

50:08
right tell people about a little bit

50:10
about your book um which I think is

50:12
fantastic uh it's called control your

50:14
retirement

50:15
Destiny and it's it's a good read what

50:18
motivated you to write that other than

50:20
to just get it out of your head what's

50:22
the what's the goal of that for the

50:24
reader to absorb yeah so so what

50:26
motivated me to write it was as I

50:28
mentioned earlier the the RMA the

50:30
retirement management advisor

50:31
designation that curriculum and this way

50:34
of looking at how you really plan for

50:38
retirement where you you need to spend

50:41
money regularly right you you saved your

50:43
whole life so that you could live off

50:46
that savings and and maintain your

50:47
lifestyle and there's so many tweaks

50:52
that can improve the outcome for people

50:54
and I wanted to lay it all out so I

50:56
wanted people to have a path that

50:58
there's a lot of people who do their own

50:59
retirement planning but it would give

51:01
them all of the things that they needed

51:03
to do as well as an introduction to

51:05
people who don't want to do it

51:07
themselves but they're looking for that

51:08
level of thoroughness to say wow okay

51:11
this is how you do it right and then

51:14
they can come find us if they don't want

51:16
to do it themselves what has been so

51:18
rewarding for me is all of the reviews

51:20
on the book sure you know I think when

51:23
you start off as an author you have this

51:24
idea that you're going to write some

51:25
book and it's make the New York Times

51:27
bestseller list and haha you know yeah

51:30
you certainly don't make any money from

51:32
from really selling books unless you you

51:34
know get to some exceptional level but I

51:38
saw the all the reviews and people that

51:40
I will never meet and some of them

51:41
actually take the time to email or post

51:45
you know find me on Twitter and and

51:47
comment that how much that that it

51:49
helped them how much it helped them lay

51:51
out their own retirement plan and I love

51:54
that and so that's why we do what we do

51:56
right

51:57
Ian it is it is and by the way you can

51:59
go to our site at censal money.com and

52:01
download the first chapter I mean you

52:02
can you can you can get the flavor of

52:04
the writing um before we close out

52:06
because I got a couple more things tell

52:08
people about um the online courses which

52:11
is it it's www the Great Courses one

52:14
word thegreatcourses.com but it's how to

52:17
plan the perfect

52:18
retirement when people go do that how

52:21
what are they what how long is it what

52:23
do they what do they expect what what

52:24
can they expect from that yeah so the

52:26
Great Courses has been around since the

52:28
70s uh for those of you who've been

52:30
flying that long you used to see their

52:32
ads in the Sky Mall magazines and so um

52:36
they reached out to me a few years ago

52:37
it took a long time to record it's a

52:40
series of lectures 12 lectures each one

52:42
is about 30 minutes long it goes through

52:46
different phases so I talk about you

52:48
know phases for younger people who are

52:50
planning for retirement and then about

52:52
three or four lectures really focused on

52:55
those go- go year years you know what

52:57
what happens in early retirement how do

52:59
you plan the transition right up to

53:02
retirement and those first five to 10

53:04
years of retirement and then I talk a

53:06
little bit more about the slowo years

53:08
and the no-go years in terms of what

53:10
might you expect in in planning for

53:12
long-term care and getting your estate

53:13
planning in order so the course is a

53:15
life cycle course designed to cover from

53:18
the time you're 20 and out of school or

53:19
just starting out or starting over all

53:21
the way through later retirement what

53:23
are the different things that you need

53:25
to think about

53:27
interesting let's talk Harley-Davidson's

53:29
Dana onpa all right how did that happen

53:33
you know I started writing dirt bikes at

53:35
the age of 35 that was 2006 you just

53:39
woke up one day and you say you know

53:40
what I think I'm G to ride a dirt bike I

53:43
A friend of mine started and you know

53:46
she's like you got to try this go take

53:48
my bike out one day and I just I got

53:50
hook it and then I got my street license

53:53
in

53:54
2010 and then I tried a bunch of

53:56
different bikes and one day I test rode

53:58
a soft tail slim and I was like this is

54:00
the bike for me the waiting I felt so

54:02
comfortable on it and so yeah so I I

54:05
love it Dana anspach is the founder of

54:10
sensible money at sensible money.com an

54:13
absolute Superstar you know if you if

54:15
your dream is to have a very smart

54:17
person that rides a Harley manage your

54:19
money I mean she's the one but it's

54:20
bigger than that she's an educator um

54:23
but she's also an adviser and a very

54:25
good one and she's build an organization

54:28
that I would uh encourage my listeners

54:29
and viewers to to view before we close

54:32
it out here Miss Dana any last words for

54:36
people words of wisdom you know do I

54:38
mean you're a juicer we found out you're

54:40
a juicer a retirement juicer any any

54:42
words of wisdom for people before we

54:43
close this thing up you know if any

54:46
words of wisdom it's a saying that I've

54:48
lived by my whole life which is you know

54:50
you got to focus on the things you can

54:52
control and you have to have a plan to

54:54
manage all of the things that you can

54:56
control and you got to let the rest go

54:59
and so don't spend all your time

55:00
focusing on all of those things outside

55:02
your control instead get a plan in place

55:04
follow it and go out and uh enjoy life

55:08
that home run you just heard hit is from

55:10
Dana onpo founder of sensible Money Dana

55:13
thank you so much for joining me on fun

55:15
with the nudies we're going to have you

55:16
back on and get more detailed with some

55:19
examples next time is that okay that

55:20
sounds great sounds good we'll see you

55:22
next week on fun with annuities

55:29
[Music]