Chuck Jaffe: Top Money & Life Topics for 2024

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[Music]

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welcome to fund with annuities where

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every single week I welcome a celebrity

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guest expert that can help you maximize

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chapter 2 of your life listen learn

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laugh and love every minute of the most

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let's get to

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[Music]

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it welcome to fun with annuities I'm

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your host Stan the annuity man America's

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annuity asent yes you are correct I am

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licensed in all 50 states have a repeat

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guest a good friend of mine newly

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married so if you if you're watching us

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on the fun with anties YouTube channel

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and wondering what they were that glow

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is coming from that's from Chuck's newly

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wedness right this is the who I'm

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talking to is Chuck jaffy he is the host

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of money life if you go to moneylife

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show.com please check check out all the

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the repeats and the podcast and all the

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stuff he's one of the best in the

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business has been a columnist at market

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watch and other places for a long long

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time you probably have read his stuff if

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you are in the money world at all and

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trying to care about your retirement so

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with that welcome newlywed Chuck jaffy

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well thanks so much for having me and

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yeah I can't stop smiling so it's a good

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thing it's the perran you know and for

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people like me who's been married 35

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years and all the people that are

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watching and listening they're like come

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on Chuck you're killing me man but

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that's good no that's good so um let's

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Jump Right In I mean when I get you on

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the

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show we have fun and we laugh and we

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Giggle and we but but I really do

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want to hear what you have to say and

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we're going to be all over the board and

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as I told you before we started let's

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just freeform this thing because that's

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how we typically do um let's weigh in on

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elections politics and all that stuff

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and your predictions on maybe what's

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going to happen to the the the markets

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and money and what you're what you're

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telling people at this point in time

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even though at the time of this taping

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um we're we're pre uh presidential

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election hard hard to know a whole lot

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about what's going on right now that's

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for sure the but there is a few things

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that we definitely do know not the least

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of which is that that ultimately

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election years are pretty benign for the

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market this one is likely to be as well

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at least until the end of it because

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you're going to go through I mean it's

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very interesting to me that someone like

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Bob doah former meril Lynch Chief

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investment officer now with crossmar

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global he's the CEO there right in his

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10 forecasts for the year the last one

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is always political and he said we're

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gonna see a flip in the White House the

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Senate and Congress he said all of them

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would flip really and that's the most

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extreme that I've heard but it's coming

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from a guy who's never extreme like

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that's not his Norm

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so I I have to say I don't know how this

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could go yeah but I think that that the

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impact of the election will be much less

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on the market and the economy right now

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than the impact of the FED I mean the

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the the bond market is pricing in six

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Bond uh rate Cuts this year six that's

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what the bond market is pricing in I

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don't know a single person and I

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interview people every single day I do

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not have a single expert who I've talked

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to who said six that's my number I've

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had a couple of people say yeah maybe

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you could get to five but I think it's

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more likely four so there is clearly a

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disconnect between what the market is

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expecting and what the FED is going to

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do and as much as we love to see the

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market at record hindes I will just

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point out if I were Jerome Powell and no

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I do not bear any resemblance to him and

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more importantly I do not want his job

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there you go but if I were Jerome Powell

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a market being at record highs tells me

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I can wait longer before I start cutting

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rates and that while you think it's you

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know okay that's you know the market's

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at record highs that's good but that's

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not necessarily good in terms of the

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economy you're GNA have to have those

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rate cuts for the economy to kind of say

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oh let's get growth back in yeah it's

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interesting having been through a lot of

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these Cycles just like you uh typically

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and what I've seen when I was with you

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know Dean wooders and Morgan Stanley's

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and pay weers and UBS is is not a lot of

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activity during that year of the

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election it's typically static there's

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not a lot happening after the elections

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and things kind of happen so for people

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to be calling for six rate Cuts that's a

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lot and I don't I don't know I might

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have to take the under on that one no I

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I don't see it I really don't see it man

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I don't see it but again so let's look

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back at the last couple years St right

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because in

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2022 every forecast for the year was

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wrong no matter who you talk to there I

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look now now you had people who said oh

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it's gonna be a bad year on the market

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and they were correct about it but

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nobody said the Market's GNA Peak on

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January the 3 and then it's GNA go go

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down ever since so the way the market

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went down in

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2022 made everybody wrong then we got to

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2023 and every Outlook for 2023 was also

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wrong they were wrong for different

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reasons in

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2023 every forecaster was saying we're

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either going to see a landing hard or

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soft we'll see a recession we'll see

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some sort of an event and the market put

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all of that off so now you get to this

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year and they'll probably be right the

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outlooks that we've been hearing but

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they'll probably be right for the wrong

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reasons in other words they're right

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because everybody went benign

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and this Market likely will be fairly

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benign that's it you can't make a case

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that like wow the Market's Going To Go

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Gang Busters that would be a

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surprise you could make a case that

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there could be some trouble ultimately

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what does that mean means we're gonna

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probably have some volatility and then

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we'll see what we scratch out and the

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end of the year may determine it like we

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could be positive until election day and

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then watch the end of the year tank it

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out a little bit and then next year is

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going to be the really CR one because

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you will have whatever the new Power

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structure is and you you will have a

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situation

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where there's enough talk in of what's

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being done that if you give anyone any

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credit for what is happening like that

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politics matters sure then the question

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becomes do you stop what's going on or

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not and let us just point out without

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getting too political because I'm not

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really the guy to talk partisan politics

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with me neither yeah I'm a Centrist yeah

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but wi without getting too political

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there's a huge disconnect in this

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country right now

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between like how we feel and how we're

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actually doing right just this week and

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and as we're recording this it's the

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third week of January just in case

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somebody's listening to it yeah it's G

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to come out next week so it's pry timely

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we

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got great consumer confidence news yet

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if you talk to anybody about what

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they're spending at the grocery store

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about what they're

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spending at the gas pump or God forbid

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because you can put me in this realm I

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my my homeowners insurance bill is due

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and it is up

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39.6% from a year ago like you can talk

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about inflation all you want 5%

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inflation you know oh it's been high 39%

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increase in a year no claims no claims

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history no nothing that should drive it

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other than if something happens to my

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house they're GNA have to pay a lot

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more everyone is

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complaining about their consumer

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experience and

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yet you don't know anybody who really

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wants to be employed who can't find a

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job right now because we're at full

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employment you you know yeah but yeah

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but and I'm gonna step in here coming

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from rural America um I read a article

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recently about the bank list

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society that we're in the 60% of the

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people in the world in in adults in

8:34
United States excuse me have less than

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$400 in their checking account um a vast

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majority at least up to onethird more

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than that in some cases don't have a

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bank account um or checking account or

8:47
savings account so they're they're

8:48
literally carrying their net worth in

8:50
their right right pocket so I think that

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the people that are listening to this

8:55
podcast are obviously wanting to hear

8:57
what you have to say by the way this

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we're talking to Chuck jaffy he's the

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host of uh money life moneyl show.com if

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you want to go there read his articles

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and columns at marketwatch.com he's

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fantastic been doing this a long long

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time it's great Insight but my point is

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we are talking to a bubble so I always

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tell my clients that remember when

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you're on the highway six out of 10

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people have can't if they wrecked their

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car they couldn't fix it so might not

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want to flip those people off but those

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are also called voters and I do think

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that's the angst part that people like

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us forget about a lot of times is that

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let's just say it's a 50% number of

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people that are just living on the edge

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literally every day regardless how much

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they're making and there's Arguments for

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that but you know politically there's no

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good answers to that but it also it also

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explains how politicians and why

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politicians say the things they do and

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talk how they how they talk well but we

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have a k-shaped recovery right that's

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what we seeing is so a k-shaped recovery

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imagine a k where you've got one part

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that comes up one part that goes down so

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the halves are getting more and the have

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knots are not getting more or getting

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less Etc the problem from a political

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standpoint is that the have knots are

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much less active politically much less

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likely to vote but the Oddity of the

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current economy is that the halves

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actually feel like they have nots I know

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I I'm amazed when I talk to people

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because I'll engage on either side I'm

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happy to take up whatever debate we want

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to have sure and I'll engage on either

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side and I'll get people who will talk

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about how miserable the economy is and

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I'll say how is it miserable for you

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like give me a specific where you are

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going this is my terrible thing and then

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size it up because I can I can [ __ ] at

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the gas pump as much as anybody but in

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my case because I work from home and I

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do whatever I go through a tank of gas

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maybe once every three weeks right when

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I'm busy you know so I can complain and

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it's really noticeable oh I didn't

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haven't been to the gas pump for three

10:53
weeks or four weeks and now the price is

10:55
up 20 cents or whatever but I can't tell

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you like that's not make or break for me

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because that's 12 bucks you know now the

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the

11:06
39.6% increase in my home

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insurance you know that's more than the

11:13
stimulus check the government gave me

11:15
during covid so that's a lot more that's

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a different scenario but the vast

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majority of people who are

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complaining their complaints are not

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necessarily their own and that's the

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interesting side look if you're in that

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part that's

11:29
unbanked the question would be were you

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in were you better off in any other

11:36
Administration the answer is probably

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not right and therefore you're proving

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the point that the politics don't make

11:43
the market that that it's something else

11:46
and it's not like quite honestly I don't

11:48
really blame politicians much for

11:50
inflation I I will say you know people

11:52
have asked me I do believe that whoever

11:54
wins this next election is going to be

11:56
saddled with a recession I don't think

11:58
they're going to avoid it it may not be

11:59
a bad one but they're going to be

12:00
settled with a recession and oh by the

12:03
way I would have told you the same thing

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in 2016 and we managed to avoid a

12:08
recession until 2020 and that was some

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good politicking even if you don't

12:13
necessarily like the person who was

12:14
doing that politicking but as a general

12:16
rule I don't give much credit good bad

12:18
or otherwise because it may have been

12:21
good politicking it may have been

12:22
leftover from the guy before him

12:24
whatever so yeah and I and I have

12:27
conversations with clients all the time

12:29
that they're they'll they'll be upset

12:32
about inflation and they'll have $7

12:33
million investable and I'm like you're

12:35
the most arrogant person I know and I'm

12:38
one of the most arrogant people on the

12:39
planet probably but listen you can buy

12:41
the eggs you can buy the gas but you

12:44
know inflation if you have seven figures

12:46
or more probably isn't going to hit you

12:48
and if you're obsessed about it then you

12:49
need to probably get medicated a little

12:51
bit um because it you you and I and I

12:54
know people are on this going Stan I

12:56
hate you please stop talking like that

12:57
you don't understand no actually I do

13:00
understand um and it's and it's called

13:02
math um and I do think you know

13:04
inflation hits that lower end hard but

13:07
for the people on this podcast in most

13:09
cases yes it's annoying inflation's like

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a fly that's flying around your head and

13:13
you can't you can't catch it it keeps

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landing on your ear eventually you're

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going to catch it it's going to go away

13:18
whatever and I do think people and I

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blame the media for for punching the

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inflation um bag too many times because

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the people they're talking to aren't the

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people that's really hitting the people

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that are really hitting aren't watching

13:33
cable news or reading Wall Street

13:35
Journal um so I I have a big Bugaboo

13:39
about people upset about inflation

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because the people that are upset about

13:43
inflation most likely have a lot of

13:44
money and they're just trying to

13:46
navigate that speed bump I don't know if

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you run into that with your callers or

13:50
not but boy I do with my people and I'm

13:52
like inflation I'm like what's like

13:55
playoffs I'm like inflation what are you

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talking about man I think like I said

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inflation's real I can look I can

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complain but I can't say I can't afford

14:04
it and and I think for I I think it

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brings up some good stuff that we can

14:08
get to on the annuity side and the

14:10
savings side as well sure you know at

14:12
the end of every show I my tagline at

14:15
the end of each day is until we do this

14:17
again the next time remember that the

14:18
best thing you could do for your money

14:20
is not worry too much about it right

14:23
true like keep it in perspective and for

14:25
those folks who have that amount of

14:27
money the the thing that I worry about

14:28
with a guy who's complaining at $7

14:30
million yeah who's worried about

14:32
inflation

14:33
right I do not worry that that person's

14:37
seriously going to be impacted by

14:39
inflation but what is making that

14:41
person's life significantly less is

14:45
their own money mindset because if

14:48
they're worried about inflation at that

14:49
point look if you've made that much

14:52
money you were entitled to spend it

14:53
however you want and you should make

14:55
your life as nice as you can and I can't

14:57
tell you the number of people people who

14:58
are in my audience and I'm sure you have

15:00
some in yours too who will tell you that

15:02
they have problems spending money not

15:06
like going to the grocery store paying

15:08
inflation it's I go to book an airline

15:11
flight and it's $28 cheaper to take the

15:15
flight that stops in Baltimore and then

15:17
Charlotte before I get to my destination

15:19
or whatever and I can't bring myself to

15:22
do it or you know I've been having

15:24
problems with my hip and I don't want to

15:27
spend an extra 300 bucks to fly first

15:29
class when all of this is dominous

15:32
amounts right when it comes to what

15:34
they're going to get to and and by the

15:36
way this is a huge part of the planning

15:38
industry like you and I can talk about

15:40
when people make their planning

15:41
assessments and their planning

15:43
adjustments and what they're thinking

15:44
about right and the financial planning

15:46
industry like with the whole 4 perent

15:48
rule right you know don't amass enough

15:51
money so that you're spending you're

15:52
living off of 4% right that is a great

15:56
rule for the financial advisor who gets

15:58
you to follow it because totally agree

16:02
it's been deun so many times I mean come

16:05
on I I agree I agree with that I I think

16:10
that you know it's hard it's hard to

16:12
tell people

16:14
um my wife calls it the scars of

16:17
scarcity and I think that's the best

16:18
phrase I've ever heard because we all

16:20
have scars from when we had no money in

16:23
the past or when our parents had no

16:24
money in the past and now we have money

16:27
and we still have those scars you know

16:28
we all we all can tell those stories um

16:31
a specific story I have one in my head

16:33
that I've told before and every time I

16:34
tell it I cry about when we were newly

16:37
newly married with one kid and I had to

16:39
go buy baby food on a credit card I mean

16:44
that'll make you cry that's a scar of

16:46
scarcity everyone out there listening

16:48
and watching has a scar of scarcity but

16:50
what I'm encouraging people to do is not

16:53
bring that scar with you to your current

16:56
state I always tell people you can

16:58
afford the the eggs and you can buy the

16:59
gas you're good you're fine you can fly

17:01
first class I always tell my clients fly

17:03
first class your kids will it's your

17:05
call you know and so I'm trying I'm

17:08
trying out here to talk about lifestyle

17:10
chapter 2 is all about you chapter two

17:12
is about living your life and we're all

17:15
at the age now where we have friends and

17:17
colleagues that drop dead and not to be

17:20
morbid but you know one of the reasons I

17:23
do these podcasts and the videos is to

17:25
remind people let's spend it you know

17:27
you can't take it with you there's no u-

17:28
huls behind hes so you know I that's

17:31
what I love about your show you give

17:34
Solutions but it's not life or death

17:36
inflation is not life or death politics

17:38
is not life or death even if we have a

17:41
Black Swan event we're going to get

17:44
through

17:46
it well one in 2010 I lost my brother

17:50
who at the time was 57 years old and and

17:53
just sort of won the evil Lottery and

17:55
got a disease and a few months after

17:56
that I had a heart attack so those

17:59
things will change some of your

18:01
perspective and and you know what I had

18:03
always told my kids what my parents told

18:05
me is don't expect an inheritance go do

18:07
your thing and and you know the right

18:09
thing should happen and yeah you may get

18:11
a little bit lucky and whatever that's

18:13
what I'm telling my kids go live your

18:15
life because my only promise to my kids

18:17
is I will not go broke until the day

18:20
after I die in other words we'll be able

18:22
to pay all my bills and do everything

18:24
else there may not be anything left for

18:26
you but I I promise not to outlive my

18:30
money and and that does not take the the

18:33
funny side is you know all of this is

18:35
about math and and you get it in in

18:38
anity side but everything's about you

18:39
know how scary is the math simple

18:42
examples credit card

18:44
debt if you pay the minimum they'll say

18:47
okay well if you've got the minimum if

18:49
you've got the average credit card

18:50
balance and you pay the minimum it's

18:52
going to take you 17 years to pay it

18:55
off but here's the thing let's say that

18:57
your minimum minimum payment that first

18:59
month is $100 you pay the minimum now

19:02
your minimum payment is

19:04
9925 right and then in the next month

19:06
it's 9875 and whatever and your minimum

19:10
comes down if you could afford to pay

19:12
$100 your minimum this month and you

19:14
just kept paying a $100 as your minimum

19:17
goes down but you stick with $100

19:19
because you could afford it instead of

19:21
taking you 17 and a half years it'll

19:23
take you about six is that great is that

19:26
great no but you can play on that you

19:28
don't have to look at six years and go

19:30
oh my God any setback will be horrible

19:33
for me I'll never get out of debt the

19:35
same thing when it comes to savings when

19:38
it comes to savings and you're looking

19:40
at the 4 perent rule or what have you

19:42
you have to save way more money to make

19:44
sure that you never run out of money

19:47
when you can take a realistic look at

19:48
what you're spending and what you hope

19:50
to spend and I mean look you I love

19:52
scars of scarcity I I want to keep that

19:54
and remember that yeah but I mean I'm

19:56
somebody who loves to cook

19:59
and I will tell you that my menu is

20:01
decided pretty much every single week

20:04
based on what's on sale at the grocery

20:07
store now that's not because oh my God

20:10
I'm being cheap no it's just that if I'm

20:13
gonna buy myself really good steak I'm

20:15
gonna buy it when it's on sale because

20:16
the rest of the time I can eat chicken

20:18
or do whatever else I want and eat

20:20
really well I can't stop myself from

20:22
saving the money I then spend that money

20:24
on something else so I try not to make

20:27
it that like it's scars of scarcity

20:30
let's go back to the days when you know

20:31
oh Ramen a a treat and 40 cents and

20:34
we've all been there unless you're

20:36
unless you're an inheritance baby we've

20:38
all been there all of us and even if you

20:40
were an inheritance baby if your parents

20:42
did it right you still had to go through

20:44
some period so you know for me it's much

20:48
more about conscious spending what I

20:50
dislike about inflation and where the

20:52
bringing this back to that side of

20:53
things is that you know I have no

20:55
problems paying my insurance bill but

20:57
it's kind of like you know what Arthur

20:58
Godfrey said about taxes in the United

21:00
States Arthur Godfrey said I'm I'm proud

21:03
to pay taxes to the United States of

21:05
America but I could be just as proud for

21:07
half the money right I I love that you

21:10
know like there's nothing better than

21:12
going oh I paid my insurance bill I

21:13
don't have to worry about that I did

21:14
this I did that I love paying off my

21:16
bills I love being like yep everything's

21:18
going well I'm right where I'm supposed

21:20
to be but I could be just as happy with

21:22
a little bit less money going out the

21:24
door for that stuff so that's how you

21:26
wind up with inflation you know the uh

21:29
really 39 inflation's living in people's

21:32
heads for free and it shouldn't be

21:33
living there in in a lot of cases what

21:36
are your what are your guests and

21:38
callers saying what's what's the

21:40
concerns that keep coming up or that

21:42
have surprised you

21:44
recently oh I don't know that there's

21:46
any that that have surprised me I think

21:50
that the the interesting thing is how

21:54
willing everyone is to believe that the

21:57
consumer can keep going so if you take a

22:00
look at all of the things that had

22:02
people saying in 2023 we expect

22:05
recession they were actually things on

22:07
which we were kind of early like an

22:09
inverted yield curve which we still have

22:12
right an inverted yield curve normally

22:14
takes 18 to 24 months before it really

22:17
comes to

22:18
roost so couple that with the high

22:22
interest rates that we've had what

22:24
happens when interest rates go high you

22:26
get more defaults but we haven't seen

22:29
more to Falls they're creeping they're

22:31
starting to creep the delinquencies are

22:34
starting to creep in exactly right we're

22:36
starting to see numbers that show that

22:38
okay consumers are under stress yeah

22:40
we're seeing numbers that say there's

22:42
record credit card debt and credit card

22:44
debt is at record high levels of

22:45
interest rates correct but it hasn't

22:48
stopped consumers yet there everyone's

22:50
talking about well with these high rates

22:52
nobody can get a mortgage

22:54
well not that many people need them I

22:56
know they do and that's overstating it

22:58
but the fact is we're now at a spot in

23:01
this country where where when couples

23:03
are separating they're not fighting

23:05
about who gets to keep the house they're

23:07
fighting about who gets to keep the

23:08
mortgage because the mortgage is a 3%

23:11
mortgage from X number of years ago like

23:14
I may not want the house but I want the

23:15
document because that's cheap money that

23:17
I can't get someplace else if that falls

23:20
under I used to love you but I love the

23:22
low rates

23:23
more I'm not I'm not sure but I I know

23:27
that it's

23:28
I I know that that you know anybody who

23:31
has

23:33
like as someone who could be looking

23:35
because I just got married my wife and I

23:37
are talking about where we want to be

23:38
living and what we want to be forward I

23:41
will not say that my mortgage is like a

23:42
golden handcuff to the

23:44
house but the math works very

23:48
differently now with me having a low

23:51
rate mortgage and looking at something

23:53
that would be much

23:55
higher you know Etc so it makes me say

23:58
okay what situation do we want and we're

24:00
not quite ready to move to a lower cost

24:03
area of the country we go oh who needs a

24:04
mortgage or whatever but we're close and

24:08
so it changes the conversations and it

24:10
changes the numbers but again the things

24:14
that we haven't seen happen yet there

24:16
has been no wave of defaults not at any

24:18
level we haven't seen junk bonds have a

24:20
wave of of defaults we haven't seen

24:22
creditors have a wave of defaults you

24:25
only have to go back six seven years we

24:28
had municipalities that were on the wave

24:30
of

24:31
default you know Puerto Rico bonds and

24:34
and Chicago bonds and Detroit bonds and

24:36
whatever else we're all in trouble all

24:39
that problem has quote unquote gone away

24:41
and remember we're less than a year

24:43
removed from Silicon Valley Bank and

24:46
problems there now the one that would

24:48
worry me if you want the scary one the

24:52
scary one is how many banks have a

24:54
significant amount of paper out on

24:57
commercial real estate yes and if you

25:00
can't solve the commercial real estate

25:01
problem could you have a wave of bank

25:04
failures you could you

25:07
could and at the same time and let's

25:09
point out I just had a guest on the the

25:13
January 24th edition of money life um

25:16
anat adadi she's a Stanford University

25:18
Professor who wrote a book that that by

25:22
by the way moneylife show.com

25:25
so she wrote a book the Banker's new

25:28
close okay here it is here because I

25:30
just they happen to have it handy and

25:32
it's what's wrong with Banking and what

25:33
to what to do about it and one of the

25:37
things that she points out and I

25:38
strongly believe that this is right is

25:40
that you know we keep saying oh this

25:42
bank is too big to fail and oh you you

25:44
didn't follow FDIC Insurance things but

25:46
we'll insure you anyway Etc all of that

25:49
is incentivizing bad behavior of course

25:52
and so we can't get rid of the bank

25:54
failures until we tell the banks oh

25:56
we're going to let some of you fail like

25:58
guess what you're you're in trouble and

26:00
we're going to let you go down and you

26:03
know politicians but politicians then

26:06
get in the way because now you have

26:08
voters and blah blah blah and that's the

26:11
problem is is there's

26:13
no there's

26:15
no they got there someone's got to pay

26:17
the bill you know and it's just there it

26:22
all of this has got to come home to

26:23
roost eventually you and I both know

26:25
that we're just waiting on it so your

26:27
worry SC scenario the worry scenario is

26:30
there are plenty of things out there

26:32
that had people saying we were going to

26:33
have a hard Landing none of that has

26:35
been repealed right none of that there's

26:38
no guarantee we've just seen enough

26:41
things happen and remember that

26:42
everything that we've seen happened was

26:44
coming out of a covid environment and

26:47
it's not just covid and along side of it

26:50
we had a recession in three months right

26:53
go back they actually consider that a

26:55
recession but they don't consider what

26:57
we were seeing like at the end of last

26:59
year where we had had six months of of

27:02
you know negative GDP growth or whatever

27:04
that's a classic definition of a

27:05
recession with a few other things thrown

27:07
in they weren't willing to call that a

27:09
recession yet the covid drop- down Spike

27:12
they called a recession it messed up

27:15
numbers not just during covid but then

27:17
what are your year-over-year comps and

27:19
what are your whatever comps and right

27:21
you know oh this looks good but where is

27:23
it relative to preco levels versus

27:25
postco levels there a a lot of stuff out

27:28
there that the worry to me the odd case

27:31
is the one that says yeah there's still

27:33
plenty of trouble we got to work it out

27:35
are you bullish on the stock market

27:38
always because my time Horizon is long

27:40
term bullish on the bond

27:42
market right now I am I believe that

27:45
fixed income has been fixed it's

27:47
generating a return for you but I think

27:50
that people want to try to make sure

27:52
that they're getting their returns from

27:53
a couple of different places and

27:55
remember your time Horizon you know

27:59
at this point if all you're worried

28:01
about is a safe haven you can do

28:03
reasonably well in bank accounts sure

28:06
but you're gonna face a lot of

28:07
reinvestment risk and and that's I think

28:10
what we're gonna start to see now once

28:11
rate Cuts happen yeah right once we see

28:14
I don't know is the yield curve disin

28:16
verting un inverting whatever yield the

28:19
yield curve goes back to like being a

28:20
curve sounds like a great jazz album dis

28:23
dis inverting of the uninverted you know

28:26
you know whoever that is

28:28
dis inverting dis inverting the yield

28:30
curve sounds like somebody's next album

28:32
that's like yeah that's like Miles Davis

28:33
the they lost the Lost album exactly the

28:37
Yi curve but yeah I I I think that um I

28:41
think we're all kind of waiting on

28:43
whatever shoe to drop whatever that shoe

28:45
to drop is because there's so much

28:46
happening and I know there's always

28:48
things happening if you go back but you

28:51
know couple couple Wars and you know

28:54
crazy election and I don't know it's

28:57
just uh my clients there the flight to

29:00
safety has been unbelievable in the

29:02
annuity industry because not only can

29:04
you get lifetime income products at very

29:06
good payout rates but you can also get

29:08
guaranteed interest rate products too

29:10
that people have been flocking to that

29:11
combine with treasuries and combined

29:13
with CDs and combined with quality bonds

29:16
for a fixed income portfolio I think the

29:19
Savers are winning here and after

29:22
Decades of them getting hammered I'm I'm

29:24
pulling for them yeah but I'm also

29:26
telling them

29:27
it ain't gonna be here forever player

29:29
because you know the we have to service

29:32
the debt which means they're going to

29:34
have to lower these interest rates

29:36
period here's a question for you with

29:38
regard to what you're seeing from those

29:40
Savers which is as the rate environment

29:43
has changed have some of the people who

29:45
are now turning to you for annuities

29:47
were they not coming to you before

29:49
because they were looking at reverse

29:50
mortgages before in other words no no no

29:53
because because in a rising rate in

29:57
environment you definitely want to go

29:59
with the annuities in a falling rate

30:02
environment in a low rate environment

30:04
you want to go with let me let me that

30:07
that's a logical progression and in a

30:09
perfect world of people with high IQs it

30:11
makes sense but um but in the world of

30:14
annuities where there's a horrific

30:17
messaging of from an industry standpoint

30:19
except for Mah um what happened is

30:22
people realized that there was more than

30:24
one type of annuity see most people are

30:26
walking around there thinking there's an

30:27
immediate annuity and if you die money

30:29
goes poof that's insane but that's what

30:31
a lot of people think they they started

30:33
realizing wait a minute

30:36
annuities plural there there are types

30:38
that are like CDs boy let's buy that

30:41
because we can get a really good yield I

30:43
think it was a discovery of the consumer

30:47
filtering through all of the crap sales

30:49
pitches to find out that there are

30:52
annuities that actually fit what they're

30:53
trying to do and a lot of people have

30:55
enough money always it my my comment is

30:58
if you won the game why are you still

31:00
playing they can they can live off the

31:02
interest they can lock it in long term

31:04
and live off the interest so you know

31:06
obviously the the the the kudin says

31:09
well yeah but what happens after year 10

31:11
let's let's pick up the fork and the

31:13
road at that point in time but if you

31:14
can lock in five six% guaranteed yield

31:17
for 10 consecutive years and you have

31:18
enough money life's pretty good right so

31:21
I think in the annuity space it was

31:25
people like me shouting down the the

31:28
index annuity Gunslingers out there

31:31
selling dreams hopes and upfront bonuses

31:33
to say hey it doesn't have to be that

31:34
complex we're not against index

31:36
annuities we just don't we just sell

31:38
them for what they are which is CD

31:39
products and income writer attachments

31:41
if you need future income but if you

31:43
need to protect the principal and get an

31:45
interest rate that's a Miga period just

31:49
I'm kind of against I'm kind of against

31:51
index new I understand that we use them

31:53
as a delivery system I understand as a

31:55
journalist I'm not really against any

31:57
anything but you know how many times

31:59
have I been to those dinners oh how many

32:01
how many uh uh times you know when I I

32:03
wrote stupid investment of the week for

32:04
a decade and and you know me I I use

32:08
them only as a delivery currently in

32:10
their current form I use them as a

32:12
delivery system for income writer

32:13
guarantees when future income is the

32:15
goal and the income writer beats the

32:17
Deferred income annuity quote but with

32:19
that being said you are correct the the

32:21
sales practices on the index side and

32:24
the buffer annuity side is what needs to

32:26
be clean up but you asked the question

32:28
what happened were people going from

32:30
reverse mortgages annuity no they found

32:32
out about annuity types that were never

32:34
told to them at the bad chicken dinner

32:35
seminar that's what happened and then

32:38
once they found out they they gravitated

32:40
to it because there were such simple

32:42
products in in contractual guarantees

32:44
that they could explain it to their

32:46
spouse and loved ones and they bought

32:47
them in drugs period I I will simply

32:50
point out again because I don't like to

32:51
say that I hate any sort of product sure

32:54
I will simply say that I am on the

32:55
record as saying that the average person

32:59
needs an indexed annuity the way a moose

33:01
needs a hat rack

33:04
okay I'll I'll leave it for everybody to

33:07
else to figure out that joke if you can

33:10
but that's if you take a look at your

33:13
finances and you can do whatever and by

33:15
the way my favorite is going to those

33:17
dinners and saying well if I wanted to

33:20
do the same thing and get a guaranteed

33:21
return why wouldn't I put a certain

33:23
percentage of my money into zero coupon

33:25
bonds it'll give me C amount of

33:28
money and with the rest of it I'll go

33:30
buy an index fund I'll keep my dividends

33:33
right so I'm not giving up things that

33:35
are part of my upside and I'll get to

33:37
the same destination with more money and

33:39
less cost that's the yourself a

33:43
do-it-yourself index annuity you got it

33:46
and by the way when I was talking with

33:48
my dad when my dad was still alive

33:49
you're talking about the amounts of

33:50
money that people get to I had to have

33:53
this meeting with my father where I

33:54
basically said dad you know here it is

33:56
you know that if you have this much

33:57
money you're set for life so you have

34:00
way more than this much money so take

34:02
that amount and that becomes your don't

34:04
screw it up money if you don't screw it

34:07
up you could go buy scratch tickets with

34:09
the rest of it and my father never

34:11
bought a lottery ticket as never have I

34:13
but you know you can do whatever you

34:15
want with that money and you're never

34:17
gonna want and that to me by the way is

34:21
the real reason when people talk to me

34:23
about annuities and oh they're complex

34:25
or whatever I'm like look that complex

34:28
but it's not that complex when you think

34:30
about it from the standpoint of what

34:31
it's doing for you if you can say I can

34:33
wake up every morning and kind of do the

34:35
Forest Gump oh they told me you didn't

34:37
have to worry about money that's one

34:38
less thing to worry about if you can

34:40
basically say hey I can lock this in and

34:42
no that pretty much whatever happens I

34:45
don't have to worry about money the rest

34:47
of my money can go up and down it can do

34:49
whatever I can spend it I cannot spend

34:51
it yep that's the value more so than the

34:55
did I squeeze every pen No Doubt hey

34:58
what's your take on bitcoin I mean we've

35:00
had some um you know it seems like the

35:02
the political uh and and the the media

35:07
has kind of brushed some things under

35:08
the rug you know with Sam Brank been

35:10
freed guilty till proven innocent or

35:12
innocent till proven guilty what's your

35:14
take on that whole Space because it

35:16
seems like it's not as big a part of the

35:20
conversation but it's still there I

35:22
don't you know I'm not a Bitcoin buyer I

35:24
was you know I missed the boat I'm going

35:26
to miss it again um what's your take on

35:30
all that well okay first things first

35:32
it's a much bigger part of the

35:33
conversation in just the last couple of

35:35
weeks because the SEC finally approved

35:38
what they call a spot Bitcoin fund it

35:41
can't really be a spot Bitcoin fund

35:43
because to be a spot Bitcoin fund you'd

35:45
have to hold Bitcoin not in like a a an

35:51
ether wallet or whatever you'd have to

35:53
actually hold physical Bitcoin and

35:54
Bitcoin is not a physical thing so they

35:56
had to get get through that to be able

35:57
to do it but now you can buy funds that

35:59
are tied to the price of Bitcoin what's

36:01
your take on that um if you said you

36:04
wanted to have an asset allocation there

36:07
I'm not going to argue with you if you

36:10
start to tell me it's a currency it

36:12
hasn't proven that yet I think there's

36:15
other cryptos that are more likely now

36:16
let me also by the way full disclosure

36:18
here Stan I own

36:22
$12 of

36:24
cryptocurrency and you also have don't

36:26
you have like a ceramic Bitcoin thing

36:29
that you were given a long time ago I

36:30
have I yeah actually I have it's it is

36:34
you know when you so leave that to me in

36:36
your will write it in your will St no no

36:38
the the so that's actually one of my

36:41
favorite things let me get back to that

36:42
in a second I have1 I have $12 in

36:45
Bitcoin which is or and I'm sorry1 in

36:49
crypto which is $10 of something called

36:52
duck duck coin and $2 of something

36:55
called BBQ coin which I was given and

36:58
I'm not planning to spend it all in the

37:00
same place so I've never actually

37:01
checked to see if it's still worth my

37:03
$12 can we buy barbecue with the BBQ

37:06
coin more on that in a second okay so so

37:10
and yes I do have like they show you the

37:13
the thing that everybody thinks is a

37:14
Bitcoin it's the the gold thing with the

37:16
that looks like a dollar it's it's on

37:18
every story when there's a Bitcoin story

37:20
written that you see this I have one of

37:22
those encased in plastic that I was

37:24
given it is as highlight to say a 100%

37:29
genuine fake Bitcoin 100% it's 100%

37:32
genuine fake it is completely real and

37:35
not real at the same time yep I use it

37:37
my hobby job I officiate lacrosse

37:41
games and I bring that with me and that

37:44
is my coin for my pregame coin toss and

37:47
I ask the kids and their coaches do you

37:51
know what this is and almost invariably

37:54
somebody gets it goes oh that's bitco

37:56
coin and I'm like Yep this is genuine

37:58
fake Bitcoin and I'm going to point out

38:01
today that at some point I'm going to

38:03
blow my whistle and you're gonna look at

38:05
me and go Mr ref that's not right that's

38:08
not uhuh no you got that called wrong

38:11
and I'm gonna point out to you that my

38:15
call like Bitcoin is a currency that is

38:18
determined by what the market makes of

38:20
it and you may think it's worthless but

38:23
when I blew my whistle I can promise you

38:25
I thought it had value you and it did

38:28
because I'm the one who makes the rules

38:31
here's the thing about could you buy

38:32
barbecue coin back in 2011 2010 Bitcoin

38:38
went on a tear it went from from $4 to

38:42
$32 in a span of about four days and it

38:44
was the first time people were learning

38:46
about it right I made it the stupid

38:48
investment of the week at 32 bucks and I

38:52
was literally just introducing people

38:53
into it nobody knew what the hell it was

38:55
sure I will point out stupid investment

38:58
of the week and it went from 32 to three

39:02
and a half in the next six days after I

39:04
wrote that

39:05
com but I get people all the time who

39:09
will say they'll point out that com

39:10
they'll go to Twitter look at this guy

39:13
if you had bought Bitcoin okay you would

39:15
have held Bitcoin through Mount gox at

39:17
that point it was the most popular

39:18
Bitcoin exchange before there was ever

39:21
FTX and people going St bankman freed we

39:23
never heard of anything like this that

39:25
just means you weren't around when GX

39:26
collapsed it did the same damn thing and

39:29
no you didn't hold your money through

39:31
that but while right after that story

39:33
came out back in 2010

39:36
2011 there be suddenly in South Station

39:39
in Boston there is a Bitcoin

39:42
ATM so I call my boss at MarketWatch and

39:46
I say we need to go use this and he goes

39:49
where and I said there's a restaurant in

39:51
Cambridge that has started taking

39:54
Bitcoin and my boss said

39:56
Chuck you can't do the story you just

39:58
wrote a hate a a hate piece on bitcoin

40:00
basically calling it St investment of

40:02
the week you cannot follow up I said

40:04
great but there's people in the Boston

40:06
office who can he said yep go take them

40:08
to lunch do the Bitcoin thing so I call

40:12
my colleagues at the market watch office

40:13
and I say hey who wants lunch they all

40:16
go sure two there's only three of us in

40:18
the Boston office so we are going to

40:21
felonius monkfish is the name of the

40:24
restaurant in and I'm a jazz person so

40:25
stop for a second still

40:28
exists doesn't take

40:30
Bitcoin yeah fonus monkfish in Cambridge

40:33
worth it Stan when you come to Boston we

40:35
can go

40:37
absolutely so so I go we we meet at

40:41
South Station we put a $100 into the

40:43
Bitcoin ATM we go there for lunch we try

40:46
to spend as close to 100 bucks as we can

40:48
we turn in whatever we need to turn in

40:50
to use our Bitcoin and in the space of

40:53
going from South Station to the

40:55
restaurant ordering during lunch Etc

40:57
Bitcoin had dropped enough that our $100

40:59
was worth

41:01
64 so now we got to spend an extra 36

41:06
bucks and then we have to go and expense

41:09
it and that's the really incredible part

41:11
because they're going no you took a

41:13
hundred bucks you bought a hundred bucks

41:14
worth of food we don't owe you 36 and

41:17
we're like no we bought a hundred bucks

41:18
worth of bitcoin and the currency

41:21
fluctuated so much that we need an extra

41:23
36 bucks to pay our $100 bill you you

41:26
know where my brain went on that is the

41:28
is the fundraising Venture Capital pitch

41:32
on the ATMs that some schmuck put

41:34
Bunches of money into that and it's in

41:37
some Warehouse some there's a bunch of

41:38
these Bitcoin ATMs that some schmuck

41:41
owns um and he gets what he deserves no

41:44
but but bottom line it looks like it's

41:46
survived the storm and gonna be here in

41:48
some form or fashion but I don't know

41:50
that it's going to be a currency look if

41:53
you want cryptocurrencies let's talk

41:55
about cryptocur currencies that are

41:56
usable right you have one I bet I bet

42:00
you have one in your house or you know

42:02
people that have one in your house that

42:03
you don't even think of as a

42:05
cryptocurrency it's called an Amazon

42:07
gift card oh absolutely if you have an

42:10
Amazon gift card an Amazon gift card you

42:12
could go to someone else and say hey

42:16
I've got an Amazon gift card it's worth

42:18
50 bucks will you take it they will and

42:20
in fact if you said I only owe you 40

42:22
but I got this gift card I'm not using

42:24
would you take a $50 Amazon gift card

42:26
they most assuredly will right you can

42:29
have absolute economy and by the way it

42:31
is for as much as people go well Bitcoin

42:33
for crime and whatever there's an entire

42:35
elicit economy in this

42:37
country right you talk about there are

42:40
people who who will say oh you know can

42:41
I pay that contractor in cash right well

42:45
I can pay you with a gift card and I can

42:47
pay you with a gift card and you can you

42:49
know think about it you run a small

42:51
business I I run a small business if

42:53
somebody wants to pay me an Amazon gift

42:55
cards I can use that right so you can

42:59
have it Amazon gift cards and other

43:02
things like it are legitimate crypto

43:04
currencies there's just not there's not

43:06
there's not a well expected secondary

43:09
Market you don't have Futures on it you

43:10
don't have other things that you do with

43:12
crypto is it just a toy for is it just a

43:15
toy for Wall

43:17
Street um no I don't think it is because

43:21
I think wall Street's still trying to

43:22
figure out how to use it and what to do

43:24
with it I agree with that and you have

43:26
lot of disagreement I mean you got I

43:29
don't know if was it Jamie Diamond or

43:31
one of the big guys just like they hate

43:33
it obviously Buffett ha hates it his his

43:36
ex compatriot that just passed away

43:38
Charlie Munger hated it you know not

43:41
saying those guys are perfect but but

43:43
they have driven a lot of the sentiment

43:45
for sure well but lizanne Saunders from

43:47
Charles Schwab said on my show and it's

43:51
the thing I come back to tell me what

43:53
problem it solves

43:54
for very good question if that's if you

43:59
say this is here to stay tell me what

44:01
problem solves for and what I compare it

44:02
to is is things like go back to the

44:05
early days of the personal computer

44:08
right I am old enough to remember those

44:10
days really well me if in the 1980s if

44:13
you were gonna say let me bet on a

44:15
personal computer company you would have

44:17
been buying the stock of prime computer

44:19
and Wang labs and Microsoft you'd never

44:21
heard of and you weren't going to buy

44:23
Microsoft and Apple was this company

44:25
that was out of those garage that you

44:27
heard a little something about but you

44:29
were going to buy the wrong things

44:32
because you couldn't tell I'm not sure

44:34
that Bitcoin is ultimately the

44:35
cryptocurrency I think blockchain has

44:38
tremendous value totally told me you

44:40
told me you want to invest in blockchain

44:42
you're buying the picks and shovels of

44:44
the cryptocurrency totally agree fine

44:46
but we're not done having Sam bankman

44:49
freed type failures no it's not you know

44:53
um uh you know that and and so by the

44:56
way as long as we're talking about all

44:58
this right do you want to know because I

45:02
I broke it last year but I'm gonna write

45:04
about it again this year what's that

45:06
we're just about by the time people hear

45:08
this we will know who's going to the

45:10
Super Bowl right that's true yes okay so

45:14
you want the you know um there was a

45:17
Leonard

45:18
Coppel was the journalist sports writer

45:21
who created the Super Bowl indicator

45:24
which he did as a joke and before he

45:25
died he sort of said I wish I hadn't

45:26
done it and you know it's the whole

45:28
thing about with Conference win and what

45:30
it means I'll give you the real Super

45:32
Bowl indicator this is it let me hear it

45:35
any stock any company that is less than

45:38
five years off of its

45:41
IPO or less than three years from having

45:44
its IPO if they are advertising in the

45:46
Super Bowl that company's headed for

45:49
trouble so in other words oh yeah

45:51
there's a gra you want to know what not

45:53
to invest oh yeah oh yeah take any

45:56
public company that is newly public in

45:58
advertising in the Super Bowl do not

46:01
take any company that is so hot that

46:02
it's going to go public after the Super

46:04
Bowl within two years because that IPO

46:08
is gonna go down in flames and there is

46:10
a long history I've now gone back and

46:12
done the research for this entire

46:15
century and there is a long history of

46:17
it and it makes actual economic sense

46:20
which is these companies have a hot IPO

46:22
they don't really know what to do with

46:23
their money right they go spend it Super

46:26
Bowl stuff so that their Executives can

46:28
fly their private jets in and go have a

46:30
grand old time cocacola and Budweiser

46:33
and whatever can afford image ads at the

46:35
Super Bowl but the other guys can't and

46:39
and I defer to South Park I defer to

46:41
South Park where their take on things on

46:43
the Matt Damon commercials for FTX was

46:45
you know what did Matt Damon say fortune

46:47
favors the brave I know you know we all

46:51
invested we all lost all our money but

46:53
we were Brave in doing so well the other

46:56
thing I read an article the other day a

46:58
little bit kind of kind of off subject

47:00
but it was about the private jet

47:03
industry and one of the one of the

47:05
stewardesses had gone you know Rogue and

47:08
talked all about just some of the

47:10
horrific things that they saw and I'm

47:12
thinking to myself if I'm shorting stock

47:14
if my business was shorting stock I

47:16
would be researching these netjets and

47:20
and say who's your worst actor and then

47:22
find out if they run in companies or or

47:24
if they're just went public and I'd

47:26
short the crap out of those people

47:28
because they don't understand money if

47:30
they're up there you know going back and

47:32
forth Etc on jet I will tell you a funny

47:36
story so in my job I am probably the

47:39
only person you know who does not work

47:41
for a fund company who knows every one

47:44
of my fund managers personally if you

47:48
run my money I've met you I've talked to

47:50
you right I've done whatever and I could

47:52
arrange to do that tomorrow if I want to

47:54
find a new fund I could call a guy and

47:56
say hey sure talk to me so I've I know

47:58
every single person who runs a mutual

48:00
fund other than an index fund that I own

48:04
right and at the same time more than

48:07
once in my life I've heard things where

48:08
I'm like oh maybe this guy drank the

48:10
Kool-Aid it is time to to get rid of but

48:14
I will tell you that I once had a

48:17
manager who was coming to

48:18
Boston and it was a fun firm that I'm

48:22
like yeah I really like what I've heard

48:24
this guy say and everything else some

48:26
point this could be on my radar screen

48:28
and we had a reasonably bad

48:31
snowstorm and we were supposed to meet

48:33
for dinner and I probably should have

48:35
been out driving in this and the guy

48:36
says could you meet me downtown let's go

48:39
get this dinner we were GNA have but

48:40
would you mind Drive Me Out to the sub

48:42
he's like you live in the suburbs I'm

48:43
like yeah I do wrong direction right so

48:46
he asked me to drive him out to the

48:47
suburbs he was leaving behind the

48:50
presidential suite in the hotel that he

48:52
was in to move into the president

48:55
residential Suite in a hotel that meant

48:57
that tomorrow morning he could get to

48:59
whatever his meeting

49:00
was right so he was more than doubling

49:03
his cost and in exchange for my troubles

49:06
he spent way way way too much on dinner

49:08
because I would have gone to eat tacos

49:09
like you know sure it's and I watched

49:11
and he talked about he like reveled in

49:15
how much he was spending and I was like

49:18
I will never own your fund not ever I

49:20
just think there's I mean there's

49:22
something to I don't think you have to

49:23
be as Frugal as Sam Walton flying coach

49:25
but but you know I do think that there's

49:27
something to that last question I'm

49:28
going to have to wrap this up in a few

49:30
minutes but does Wall Street like open

49:35
borders

49:37
um I don't actually that's a good

49:39
question that I don't really have an

49:40
answer to I think that Wall Street likes

49:44
what's good for business and to the

49:46
extent that they can say that open

49:48
borders are good for business come on um

49:52
to the extent

49:54
that you can say

49:58
that I I think when you look at this

50:01
question the right way to answer it and

50:04
I haven't done the research to be able

50:05
to answer it for you would be to say

50:09
look at what the economists say on the

50:12
subject but compare academic economists

50:16
to corporate

50:17
economists Angus Deon Nobel

50:20
prizewinning Economist wrote a fabulous

50:23
book that came out near the end of last

50:25
year

50:26
and Angus was on my show and we were

50:28
talking about

50:30
economists and specifically there is a

50:33
significant difference between what

50:35
corporate economists believe and what

50:38
academic economists believe and that

50:42
ultimately you very seldom have anyone

50:46
not coming back to Academia in other

50:49
words the minute I'm no longer employed

50:51
by you my belief system miraculously

50:54
comes back to what the academics think

50:57
and the minute you employ me I may move

51:00
off of whatever but and admittedly he

51:03
owned up to the fact that he's an

51:04
academic Economist so he has maybe a

51:06
bias that he's living in the light and

51:08
not the dark but I would say that that

51:13
if you want to look at it from an

51:15
economic standpoint not so much a market

51:18
standpoint go find the college

51:20
professors and compare what they're

51:21
saying to the corporate economists and

51:23
that your answer will be somewhere in

51:24
the middle it it's just interesting I

51:26
don't I don't trust any cable news

51:28
either side um they're all agenda driven

51:32
news is agenda driven so I look at it

51:34
from a different lens I was just

51:35
wondering your take and that's a really

51:36
good take I heard someone say the other

51:38
night and it hit me that they were

51:40
correct because one of the places I live

51:42
parttime is in Florida and he goes I

51:44
defy you to find a roofer that's not an

51:48
immigrant that's working in Florida and

51:50
I went yeah he's probably right I mean

51:54
probably right I would say you'd have a

51:56
tough time doing it here in

51:57
Massachusetts and we don't have the same

51:59
immigration issues I mean I'll also

52:02
point out I'm first generation American

52:04
my parents were both born in Berlin and

52:07
and my parents had you know um my my

52:11
parents both had pretty amazing stories

52:13
that got them here and what they had to

52:15
go through to get here and who had to

52:17
sponsor them and what they had to do

52:19
yeah and my parents would have told you

52:22
that they were not in favor of open

52:24
borders but they in terms of completely

52:28
open but that you know again what are

52:31
you doing and what are you trying to

52:32
bring in and I will simply point out

52:34
that when someone says yes but what

52:36
they're trying to bring in is drug

52:37
dealers well in the case of my

52:39
grandfather case of my father's father

52:41
that's not true almost certainly he was

52:42
a drug dealer now he would have

52:44
preferred to say it was International

52:46
Pharmaceuticals company you know like an

52:48
international Pharmaceuticals

52:51
company not like a drug dealer well the

52:53
reason the reason I it you could spin it

52:56
that way the reason I asked that

52:57
question was a couple reasons number one

52:59
I want to hear what you had to say

53:00
number two I wanted our listeners and

53:01
viewers to think of it differently not

53:03
through a cable news lens um but I will

53:06
say this the only prediction I have

53:08
about the the elections coming up is

53:11
that whoever wins the presidency will

53:13
have the better message on immigration I

53:16
don't know what that message is but

53:17
whatever that message that they can

53:19
craft to to translate to the people to

53:23
make them feel comfortable about it will

53:24
win that will be the issue I think um

53:28
because it has tentacles all the way

53:30
around and I think either party has the

53:32
ability to to craft that message we'll

53:35
just see but I do think that uh it's not

53:38
as it's not as black and white and

53:40
horrific it's horrific in a lot of ways

53:43
but it's not what I think the media

53:45
portrays in a lot of cases um and I

53:48
heard a pundit say there night and I

53:49
don't agree with him all the time but I

53:51
think he's hilarious his name you know

53:53
you know him James carbal and I I watch

53:56
him because he's funny um but what he

53:58
said was interesting he goes if a lady

54:00
walks 600 miles with her daughter to get

54:02
across her border I kind of want to hire

54:06
her and I went that's interesting now I

54:09
know all the other people on the other

54:11
side are yelling at me right now but I

54:12
want you to think about it think about

54:15
it a little bit and obviously we're

54:17
going to clean that up as a country we

54:19
always do it's you know it's not going

54:21
to be the same but I thought that was an

54:23
interesting com

54:25
you know because you know I'm always

54:27
hiring people I'm always looking for

54:28
work ethic and when he said that I'm

54:29
like wow that's that's that's a good way

54:32
to do it what are the items do you want

54:34
to cover before I wrap this thing up

54:36
Chuck oh Stan it's your it's your show I

54:39
mean all right then here's what we're

54:40
gonna do wait wait wait there is one

54:42
thing there is one thing I wanna I wanna

54:44
point out which is the last time you

54:45
were on my show we taped a couple things

54:47
right before my my wedding in November

54:50
because I did some shows in advance

54:52
before I went away and at the time we I

54:55
had you come in to do a question which

54:56
was not from the audience it was from me

54:58
I know because I had been given a a

55:01
buyout offer on a small pension that I

55:04
had and and your advice was what I

55:07
expected it to be which was you know

55:08
like you can run the math and decide if

55:10
it's something else but you know chances

55:12
are good you want to stick with the

55:14
pension and and I will simply point out

55:17
I did run all the math but more

55:19
importantly I had the conversations with

55:21
Gail I will point out Gail hates money

55:23
like among the things that will tell you

55:25
she's getting with me is the fact that

55:27
hey he'll he'll help me with the money

55:28
decisions and he actually knows what

55:29
he's doing that's that's that second

55:31
part that really is perhaps more

55:33
important but we had all of the money

55:35
discussions about it and she kind of

55:38
recognized like he it wasn't a sharp

55:40
stick in the eye it was easier to do it

55:42
than she would have expected even if she

55:44
doesn't understand how pensions work or

55:47
annuities work in the rest and B the

55:50
peace of mind would have been worth

55:51
whatever we could have done when we did

55:53
the tradeoffs and looked at right and so

55:55
the

55:56
decision that was made when she when we

55:59
finished her thing was I thought we were

56:00
going to have a talk about money and

56:02
instead we had to talk about life and

56:05
you know my show is called money life

56:07
for a reason but when people are having

56:10
those discussions with you yeah remember

56:14
like the only reason my show is called

56:16
money life is because life money sounds

56:19
stupid it doesn't roll off the tongue

56:21
life comes first remember that everybody

56:24
we're talking about Chuck jaffy he's the

56:25
host of money life show Money life

56:28
show.com and it's called money life but

56:30
if you want to go and listen to all the

56:31
re-recordings and all the stuff he has

56:34
out and subscribe I tell you to do that

56:36
moneylife show.com he's also col

56:39
columnist with market watch I used to do

56:41
that gig for a long long time it's kind

56:43
of how we met but at the end of every

56:45
show Chuck as you know I do a mic drop

56:47
moment I count it down 543 21 and then

56:50
you say something that's so

56:51
unbelievable that people will be blown

56:53
away and walk away an amazement of your

56:56
IQ so here we go in five 4 3 2 one Mike

56:59
drop moment Chuck jaffy

57:04
go remember folks keep keep everything

57:07
in perspective where money is supposed

57:09
to be

57:11
okay you you didn't make it to save it

57:15
you didn't make it to be buried with it

57:17
the richest man in the graveyard is not

57:20
the happiest man before he got there so

57:24
there you go I mean that's a mic drop

57:26
Chuck thank you so much and thank you

57:28
everybody for joining us on all major

57:30
podcast platforms and the fun with the's

57:32
YouTube channel I'll see you next time

57:34
take

57:39
care