Andy Panko: Financial Planning Demystified and Unemotional

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welcome to fun with annuities with your

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host me stan the annuity man america's

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annuity agent can annuities be fun can

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contractual guarantees be fun

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absolutely they can find out the brutal

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facts about annuities with no sales

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pitches or high pressure nonsense just

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the brutal and factual annuity truth

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which is all you need to hear

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let's have some fun with annuities and

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let's have that fun start right now

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[Music]

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welcome to fun with annuities i'm your

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host stan the annuity man america's

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annuity agent licensed in all 50 states

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as you know welcome to everybody on all

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the major podcast platforms

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and on the fun with annuities youtube

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channel where you can see the dashingly

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good looks of both of me and my guests

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actually my guess not me you know what i

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look like for goodness sakes

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um but i'm very happy to have a brand

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new person on fun with annuities and he

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listen this guy

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he you're gonna love this guy andy andy

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panko is his name p-a-n-k-o

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um born in delaware went to university

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of delaware got all the degrees then

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went to go blue hens by the way and then

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went to uh rutgers university and got

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some extra stuff go scarlet nights

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um but kind of like me has been

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all over the place from the standpoint

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of working for firms and working for you

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know global insurance companies and

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banking firms and all that stuff and

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then he realized that's not what he

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wanted to do his passion was personal

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finance

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um

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there's a story in there that i'll i'll

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let him tell you but he is the owner

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of tinon i think that's the boy it's

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pronounced financial t-e-n-o-n and all

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of that stuff's going to be on

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my site he's going to have his page all

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of our celebrity guests do have their

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own page on the site you can get all

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their stuff and email them and all that

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all that good stuff

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um he has a separate tax return

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preparation filing company called teen

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on tax preparation

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i found him through a facebook group

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called taxes in retirement one of my

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clients turned me on to him that's how i

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found him and he has a great youtube

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channel called retirement planning

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demystified i'll have all of that on

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there

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so without further ado

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welcome andy i appreciate you joining us

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hi thanks for having me super happy to

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be here and i appreciate the offer

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a couple things before we get started uh

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we're both musicians andy andy is uh

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he's an admitted sucker for mandolins

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and banjos i just bought a banjo the

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other day

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and i just bought an amplified flying v

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banjo

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okay

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i know what you're saying what yeah yeah

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yeah i i i have no musical abilities i

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cannot play these instruments but i love

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the way they sound

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so it's a lot i you know anyone who says

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i really get a guitar hasn't met a

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really good guitarist you know obviously

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dink around with it and i'm not that

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good but one of the things that that and

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we'll we're going to jump into financial

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stuff i promise everybody but when i

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have a person on the show that's

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actually

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done some stand-up comedy at caroline's

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comedy club at times square and

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has done

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you know has been on tv he was a

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contestant on hdtv's all-american

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handyman i mean you talk about a

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diversified cat all right i'm going to

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hand it to you andy let's go from here

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wow that's a lot

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i'm going to ask you later you got

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you're going to end this thing with a

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joke but tell me about the non-joke

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which is people's retirement and

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financial planning

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sure so yeah business name is tenon

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financial

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i've caught it on because i'm from the

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south and that's how we pronounce things

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but then that's accurate then go with it

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yeah it's like

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it's like here in new jersey we say

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insurance most the rest of the country

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says insurance insurance that's exactly

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that's exactly right yeah

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uh but you know so and also born in new

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jersey not born in delaware uh i was

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going to delaware that's right

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yeah did go to school in delaware um but

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born in new jersey so go bruce

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springsteen and bagels and not pumping

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our own gas you know new jersey all the

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way

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so yeah retirement planning i

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quick background i wanted to be a

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financial advisor when i graduated

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university of delaware in 2000

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i went to school there for finance

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didn't know what an advisor does or what

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the job looks like i just knew i wanted

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to help people with money decisions

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basically

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interviewed at a lot of large household

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name places insurance companies and

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brokerage firms that everyone listening

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and watching has heard of

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and wasn't what i thought it would be

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not

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knocking products but they were all just

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sell this loaded mutual fund or sell

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this insurance or gather assets

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there's there's no talk of advice or

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planning or general guidance so

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kind of got disenfranchised gave up on

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the idea

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and stumbled into an actuarial role at a

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large major insurer on the corporate

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side not sales not advising just

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helping price and value and understand

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it was a particular type of pension

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product i worked on

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um and then also worked on their general

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account for a little bit helping manage

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that and moved on to

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uh you know beyond that

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uh

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fast forward

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so i was early 2000 um spent most of my

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career in institutional banking and in

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global capital markets largely financing

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hedge funds and private equity funds

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with derivative trades with prime

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brokerage uh doing risk management of

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that

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and made good money did cool things

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worked with a lot of great people

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but always

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wasn't quite fulfilled wanted to do

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something more direct with people

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actually helping individuals not helping

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other banks or hedge funds or private

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equity funds and was still always

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interested in personal finance

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what what really sort of changed my

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future and career trajectory was 2016 i

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believe it was

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my mother was transitioning into

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retirement

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she was already working with the

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traditional percent of assets under

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management uh advisor at a large place

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we all heard of

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and

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my mom was trying to figure out how to

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claim social security and she has one of

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the the hairier scenarios where she's

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divorced from my dad she's of an age

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where she can still do the uh restricted

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application

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you know to get her benefits or his and

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take hers later and her advisor wasn't

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able to help her really iron out that

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decision and and didn't apparently

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didn't know all the social security

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nuances well enough to give her a you

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know firm committed answer yes you can

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or cannot do this strategy

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so that's when i got involved knew

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nothing about social security i thought

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it was basically personal savings

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accounts for savings accounts um that

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the government set up for us

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and uh just learned a tremendous amount

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and in researching social security like

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the light went off the proverbial light

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went off over my head it was like yes

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this is the advice and planning and help

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that i thought existed that i thought i

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wanted to do you know 16 years prior

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when i wanted to be an advisor

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and i realized yeah

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okay this is it you know this social

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security decision is probably the most

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impactful thing my mom can do for her

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financial future it's not farting around

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and over complicating the mutual fund

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allocation decision uh you know it's not

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all the other stuff that typical

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advisors normally do not to say they're

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unimportant but

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that's not the real value in many cases

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so so that got me thinking like wow what

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if there's a way to do a business where

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you really are giving planning and

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guidance and yeah you can still do

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investments and yeah insurance is

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important um they need to be considered

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but the focus should be on the planning

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and the guidance and the advice

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so so that got me on a path of just

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researching and learning and i came

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across a few podcasts and blogs that

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that blew the lid off for me

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um specifically the xy planning

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group

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and i was like wow there are people out

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there who have businesses and fee models

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that are either just advice or advice

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and investment but with the focus on the

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the advice the planning

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and is like yep this is it and the more

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i listen the more i read i realize i can

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do things i can start a business giving

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financial advice the way i think it

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should be given charging how i think

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people should be charged for it

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focusing on what i want to focus on i

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always knew taxes were important and

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then most advisors kind of sorry we

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don't do tax planning sure um because

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there's tax implications of virtually

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everything in a financial life

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and that was kind of it that just that

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was 2016. from that point forward was

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like yep let me do this and do it by my

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terms and while i'm at it let me try to

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change my life up so i don't have to

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schlep to and from new york so i live in

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new jersey worked in manhattan long

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commute to and from every day long hours

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kind of shackled to a desk you know

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eight to six

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um

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and i was just gonna let me just

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completely pivot not just the work i do

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but how i do it let me work from home

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work for myself by myself

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and it all culminated and i decided 2019

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will be the year i uh

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leave my old life and start up my own

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solo

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retirement planning investment

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management business tenant financial and

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here i am

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intending financial now is just at full

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capacity we talked about that before and

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just for people keeping score

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andy is a certified financial planner

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andy is a retirement income certified

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professional ricp and he also is an

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enrolled agent with the irs

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so when he talks about taxes he can talk

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about taxes because he's qualified to

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talk about taxes because the irs has

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deemed him qualified to talk about taxes

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so

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i think that's um

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i think that and when you talk i think

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that's fantastic because if you're gonna

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get tax advice the person needs to know

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what the heck they're talking about

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there's a lot of people that lead

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with tax advice and then try to sell you

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something sure when you

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retirement planning demystified

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define and go into the demystification

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when you started taking it apart the way

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you thought it should be taken apart

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and then and then presenting it to

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people as this is way it should be

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what did that look like and what does

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that look like

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so it sounds super cheesy and hokey and

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cliche but it's it's genuinely true i am

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an educator at heart

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i i have taught at rutgers for their uh

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graduate school business i thought four

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or five semesters there teaching finance

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i also am not that i have but i'm

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certified to teach high school in new

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jersey so if i ever want to go teach

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there you know i got my certification to

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teach in high school

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so i truly enjoy the educating the

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teaching the explaining maybe part of it

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i like hearing myself talk you know uh

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which very well could a bit of it but

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you gotta be

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prohibited so i i enjoy teaching and and

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what happened was

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it's back up so i started 10 in

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financial november 2019 from from true

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zero no clients no revenue

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and i was doing the stuff i thought

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advisors were supposed to do to drum up

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business i was doing local library

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seminars trying to capture emails and

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phone numbers yeah i was taking out

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estate planning attorneys and cpas to

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lunch you know the centers of influence

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marketing i joined the local uh

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chamber of commerce and went to one of

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their mixers

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and

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i mean not much was working but it was

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only a few months and then covet

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happened

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you know three or four months into me

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starting the business and all that shut

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down

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right no more library seminars no more

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launches no more mixers i was like man

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now what this isn't cool

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uh so i started getting active online i

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already had a twitter page a linkedin

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page a facebook business page and

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none of them really were clicking

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but i started a facebook group i'll get

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to the youtube thing i swear

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start a facebook group called taxes in

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retirement

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i knew i wanted to have a very clear

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focus on retirement planning from from a

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tax efficiency perspective hence the

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name taxes retirement there's other

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retirement planning groups out there but

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i was like let me be the tax guy let me

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pitch the tent as the uh taxes and

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retirement spot

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and did that and just started posting

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things um

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answering questions sharing others

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articles and things and and it just it

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took off within months it just

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you know uh joiners are

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fast and furious now it's over 25 000

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people i think um

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but

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another month or two after that

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i decided let me not pigeonhole myself

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and how people perceive me as just the

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tax guy because i i do do and know and

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provide broader financial and retirement

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planning including investments including

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again insurance i don't sell insurance i

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intentionally do not have licenses but i

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work on a few good platforms and have

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good connections that i refer people to

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and so in an effort to not be just the

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tax guy i i thought let me start a

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youtube channel and have it called

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something more general hence retirement

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planning demystified you know there's no

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the name doesn't key in on just tax

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and why demystified i frankly don't know

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um i just i knew i didn't want to be

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again pigeonholed as just tax

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it's so largely tax focused the stuff i

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discussed but i wanted to come off as a

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broader thing with the educational focus

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and i just sort of like all right let me

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go demystified um because i i think and

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i've been told by

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you know the the professors i worked for

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and students i had and people i talked

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to

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that i'm fairly good at breaking things

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down and educating and taking you know

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complex topics and

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uh making them palatable and digestible

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and plain english so i figured let me

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call it demystified because yes

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retirement planning has a lot going on

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there's a lot to unpack but if i can

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parse out

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bits at a time and break those down into

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plain english for folks then i like to

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think i'm helping to demystify it

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so that's the youtube video uh channel

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a couple things that i think people

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would find interesting about you um

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is kind of your view on life you have

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three things and you wrote i'll tell

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them to people and i just loved it his

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three things

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that he looks at on life is anything

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worth doing is is worth doing well

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number one which i like

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number two don't take yourself too

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seriously

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i'll add i'll add what i put on the end

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of that but be serious about what you do

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obviously he is and then the third thing

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is be nice

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and um i i don't know if you took the

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third one from patrick swayze in

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roadhouse you know remember he's talking

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to the bouncers he goes be nice well

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what if they should be nice

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and i think that is uh that's a lost art

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in the because a lot of people out here

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think they're masters of the universe

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and they're not

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and i think that's it's refreshing that

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you know you look at things from a very

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pragmatic standpoint i would encourage

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everybody at this point i'm just going

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to

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promote for andy he has a newsletter

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it's free i would sign up for it

14:38
go to his facebook

14:40
group sign up for it go to his youtube

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channel um so taxes in retirement taxes

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and retirement three words facebook

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group

14:48
and tennant but then south we call it

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tenon

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fina t9

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financial um and and what's that what's

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the address there

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andy it's

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tenantfinancial.com tenant financial

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t-n-o-n financial all one word dot com

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sign up for his news letter list tell us

15:06
about the youtube channels taking off

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obviously we would love to uh with your

15:09
permission to add you as one of those

15:12
channels we approve of for our people to

15:14
look at on our youtube channel tell us

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about that youtube

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channel and

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not the goals but what drives you there

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and what people will find from the

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standpoint of categories and

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playlists and things like that

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sure so the the goal with that

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and i started all this stuff not really

15:34
knowing what i exactly wanted from i

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mean i'd be lying if i were to say i

15:38
didn't want

15:39
clients and business development and it

15:41
worked

15:42
but i i hate sales i cringe at the

15:45
thought of having to sell in the

15:46
traditional sense so i never wanted to

15:48
have a traditional

15:49
lead capture

15:51
where it's like hey give me your email

15:52
and i'll give you this free handout or

15:54
sign up for my webinar give me your name

15:56
and phone number and you're on you're on

15:57
my marketing list i know what stuff

15:59
works and i understand why but i just

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it's not me

16:03
so i wanted to get

16:05
as much content out there

16:07
to do a few things one again i truly

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enjoy

16:10
maybe it's i like hearing myself talk

16:11
but i truly enjoy just

16:13
feeling like i'm educating and helping

16:16
um

16:17
and i knew i needed exposure especially

16:19
since code would shut down physical

16:20
interactions so i thought this would be

16:22
a great way to get exposure

16:24
and specifically by doing video

16:27
people can can see me

16:30
hear me

16:31
know what i look like get my mannerisms

16:33
get my corny dad jokes so they feel like

16:36
they know me if and when they ever

16:37
decide to consider me for a paid

16:39
engagement

16:41
like they in theory are already

16:42
comfortable with me they know what to

16:43
expect and what not to expect

16:46
so anyway the youtube channel was let me

16:48
just make deep dive educational

16:51
um again plain english try to break

16:54
things down so that any uh

16:57
reasonably

16:59
intelligent adult can understand it

17:01
and i started by doing formally scripted

17:04
stuff you know i i was literally had my

17:06
iphone with the teleprompter app that

17:07
i'd look at and read and that's how i

17:09
recorded

17:11
so the first few dozen videos i did were

17:13
that uh and it was scripted

17:16
10 15 minutes long with slides and

17:18
overlays and charts and i did a whole

17:20
series on annuities nice you know fixed

17:24
indexed and variable and even quacks

17:27
and um

17:28
again technical pretty long form it's

17:31
not like the typical click bait

17:32
three-minute videos with a flashy page

17:34
like five things you have to do today

17:36
and you click into it and it's all just

17:37
fluff

17:39
there's no pomp and flair that this is

17:41
just like meat and potatoes content

17:43
that i can look at analytics a lot of

17:45
people drop off pretty early on

17:47
but those that truly want sort of an

17:50
academic based but plain english deep

17:53
dive into things

17:54
that's who i'm trying to speak to

17:56
um

17:57
and it seems to be resonating so you

18:00
know now it's over ten thousand people i

18:02
started it mm-hmm i already know what

18:04
year it is it's less than two years ago

18:06
sure

18:07
growing fairly well it's 15 to 20

18:10
something people a day joining uh and

18:14
that was kind of it so i started with

18:15
those scripted ones and then what i also

18:17
do is in my facebook group i do a weekly

18:19
live video every wednesday night

18:21
typically a deep dive in a certain topic

18:23
but with live q and a from people in the

18:25
group

18:26
and i'd also replay those video uh post

18:28
up replays of those videos to the

18:30
youtube channel now those are like an

18:31
hour to an hour and a half there's a

18:32
really long form

18:34
but again for the for the people who are

18:36
looking for that right it's it's it

18:39
seems to be solid gold it was just going

18:41
to say it's it's a jerry seinfeld gold

18:44
it's gold you know people people are

18:46
used to

18:48
advisors that you know you you enter an

18:51
agreement with them and their fees are

18:53
based on the size of your

18:55
investment accounts etc i think what's

18:57
unique about what you do and once again

19:00
um you you are a book solid but you are

19:02
trying to figure out how to refer to

19:04
people that you trust etc that that

19:06
follow your guidelines

19:07
but for you it's a flat annual fee it

19:10
doesn't matter if you have 20 million

19:11
dollars or 2 million dollars or 500 000

19:15
or whatever and i think when people are

19:17
looking for a trusted fiduciary partner

19:19
which is i guess what you are

19:21
that provides financial tax the whole

19:24
shooting match

19:25
that flat annual fee seems like a like a

19:27
bargain

19:29
what landed you there just the fact that

19:31
that made sense to you or that no one

19:33
was really doing it right in that space

19:36
it's a mix of things it's a bit of of

19:38
both so

19:40
i my experiences trying to get into the

19:42
industry again go back to when i was in

19:44
college and

19:46
the jobs called financial advisor were

19:48
just commissioned sales and not knocking

19:50
commission sales but i didn't feel that

19:51
was the way i wanted to give advice i

19:53
don't want to sell product

19:55
and

19:56
getting paid for consummation of a

19:57
product transaction

19:59
you're not paid for the quality or

20:01
quantity of advice you give

20:03
so i knew that wasn't the route i wanted

20:05
to ultimately go

20:06
even the

20:08
percent of assets which is what the vast

20:10
majority of advisors do

20:14
isn't is a far from perfect uh fee model

20:17
and it never really seemed right to me

20:19
and i worked professionally in the

20:21
percent of aun model again dealing with

20:22
hedge funds private equity funds most of

20:24
my career

20:25
and for people out there aum means

20:27
assets under management in the business

20:29
right that's what that means

20:32
and i saw and knew what goes into

20:35
managing money managing investments and

20:37
i knew the amount of time effort

20:40
resources expertise needed

20:44
wasn't directly related to asset size

20:46
asset size alone is frankly quite

20:48
arbitrary in determining the effort and

20:51
time and resources and you know whatever

20:52
it takes uh to to do that process and

20:55
service those clients

20:56
so i was always thinking there's got to

20:58
be a better way i mean frankly i think

21:00
pure hourly is the most equitable

21:03
but it's never going to work

21:05
for ongoing advisory relationships

21:07
because clients will be reluctant to

21:08
pick up the phone or send an email if

21:10
you're running the clock that's true but

21:12
in theory that's the most fair model but

21:15
again won't work for ongoing or other

21:17
i'm sure some people do it but it's

21:18
never going to fully uh catch on

21:22
next to that i i feel the best model is

21:24
some sort of complexity based

21:27
we're using complexity as a measure of

21:29
your time and expertise and resources

21:32
provided

21:34
so

21:35
in principle i like the idea of

21:36
complexity based but the more you try to

21:38
make a model to accurately account for

21:40
complexity the model becomes unwieldy

21:42
the fee structure becomes unwieldy man

21:44
that's not really going to do it either

21:46
so

21:47
i figured

21:48
and part of the reason why flat fee

21:50
works is that i have a very tightly

21:52
defined universe of clients i wanted to

21:54
work with

21:55
they're all more or less going to be the

21:57
same stage of life have the same general

21:59
level of complexities all have the same

22:02
general planning needs

22:06
so so asset size is frankly irrelevant

22:08
now i do draw limits i mean i sort of

22:11
draw a line and sand at about 10 million

22:12
in net worth because i realize at higher

22:14
levels of assets yes there is more

22:15
complexity estate planning you know

22:18
creative uses of insurance and whatever

22:20
you have to worry about death taxes

22:21
inheritance and state taxes so i i

22:23
stopped there so i don't you know charge

22:25
a flat fee for people with 100 million

22:26
bucks i'll just say no to them

22:29
and then

22:30
on on the downside so here's the flaw

22:32
with percent of assets under management

22:34
uh as i said the work isn't linear to

22:36
the asset size advisors shouldn't make

22:38
more money just because assets go up now

22:40
advisors can fool themselves in thinking

22:42
they're providing alpha and deserve it

22:44
but no vast majority of advisors there's

22:46
a lot of beta you know market-based

22:48
moves in their portfolio sure that the

22:50
market is what makes assets go up

22:52
and so advisors kind of overcharge in a

22:55
lot of cases with clients uh for clients

22:57
have a lot of assets

22:59
but on the flip side advisors shouldn't

23:01
be paid less just because the markets go

23:03
down they're still doing the same amount

23:05
of work providing the same services etc

23:07
so i was like

23:09
let me come up with a fee

23:11
knowing that i have the same kind of

23:13
homogeneous pool of clients

23:15
that all sort of want to need the same

23:17
things from me let me come up with a fee

23:18
that i think is fair for the value and

23:21
service and resources i'll be providing

23:23
where asset size frankly doesn't matter

23:24
at all and i i could truly say that

23:27
um i actually have

23:29
many cases where clients with a million

23:31
dollars are a lot more work and time

23:32
than clients with five million dollars

23:35
yeah traditional percent of asset model

23:36
would have the higher asset clients

23:38
paying you know two to five times more

23:39
which is ridiculous

23:41
so that that's how i came up with the

23:43
flat fee it made a lot of sense in my

23:44
head and i can't think of any other

23:46
professional service

23:48
where outside of investment management

23:50
where

23:52
the fee is in effect means tested or you

23:54
pay based on how much you have right

23:57
the one case i came up with which makes

23:59
sense

24:00
is lawyers when they represent you for

24:03
uh some sort of lawsuit and they take

24:05
like 30 percent of your winnings

24:07
now that's pure alpha in financial speak

24:09
meaning if you didn't hire that lawyer

24:11
you wouldn't have any of that money in

24:12
the first place right right so if they

24:14
do

24:15
directly get you a you know a million

24:17
dollar lawsuit settlement sure that they

24:19
should take a cut of it

24:21
that's not what we do in financial

24:22
advising those that manage investments

24:24
again are fooling themselves if they

24:25
think they're uniquely uh responsible

24:28
for the client's portfolio going up

24:30
they're not

24:30
so don't charge on it uh i'm kind of

24:32
ranting now but but that that's the

24:34
place i came from

24:36
i like it it's pure and it makes sense

24:38
and it's simple

24:40
um and it's rational and i think people

24:42
out there are going man that that that's

24:44
the way it should be and i guess when

24:46
you started the business in 2019

24:49
um you followed your passion and you say

24:51
well how how would i like it how how do

24:54
i think it should work and that's

24:55
exactly where

24:56
you know here we are with you with a

24:58
waiting list and not taking any new

25:00
clients on but but for people out there

25:03
don't that doesn't mean don't sign up

25:04
for his newsletter don't he is working

25:06
on some things that can't be revealed

25:08
right now um just from the standpoint of

25:10
of

25:11
potential referrals to people that are

25:13
in this space i just referred to

25:14
recently

25:15
in the world of

25:16
do-it-yourself investors

25:19
you know

25:22
you almost have to reprogram those

25:23
people i would think a little bit

25:26
to not just think like you do but but

25:29
have

25:30
um realistic

25:31
expectations of the process can you kind

25:35
of go through some examples of that and

25:37
maybe

25:38
um

25:39
some of the hurdles people have with

25:41
going to someone like you or someone

25:43
that's that

25:44
isn't trying to find on the next tesla

25:46
you're trying to find them

25:48
lifestyle and peace of mind and turnkey

25:51
yes

25:53
that that's the challenge a lot of

25:55
people equate advisor with simply

25:58
someone who's going to try to beat the

25:59
markets so my advisor got me x percent

26:02
what did yours do

26:03
yeah and

26:05
investment management even good

26:06
investment management has become

26:08
increasingly cheap easy and commoditized

26:10
to do and do well

26:12
again i i worked in institutional

26:14
investments i i've seen the best and the

26:16
brightest bespoke unique strategies

26:18
hedge funds private equity funds that

26:19
all thought they had some alpha and edge

26:21
yeah and and some some did really well a

26:24
lot did not

26:25
and most of them just sort of hovered

26:27
around you know the returns that indexes

26:29
would provide sure yet they charge two

26:32
percent of assets under management 20 of

26:34
profit so go figure

26:36
um the the value in good planning and

26:40
advice isn't investment management and i

26:42
tell my clients any monkey with a

26:44
computer can do what i do from an

26:45
investment perspective

26:47
there's some value to be had but that is

26:49
by far

26:50
uh not the most uh not the biggest piece

26:53
of value i i'm a passive

26:55
index based guy i do that myself

26:57
personally and for clients now there's

26:59
some folks out there that say

27:00
accumulation is different than the

27:02
accumulation

27:03
thousand percent accurate but that

27:04
doesn't mean you still can't use

27:06
traditional investment of products just

27:08
rethink the way you use them and manage

27:10
them

27:10
from a de-accumulation perspective

27:14
so

27:15
what i've found with my clients is a lot

27:17
of them are already quite educated about

27:19
financial stuff and that's how they

27:20
found me by seeking out sure you know

27:22
the content i make

27:24
so they were already sort of diy passive

27:27
investors to start with and know the

27:29
investments well

27:31
and

27:33
most people can do accumulation well in

27:36
life it's a de-accumulation where things

27:37
get more tactical and complicated

27:40
because there's a bunch of things

27:42
merging there's okay i saved all these

27:44
assets

27:45
now i have some in tax deferred accounts

27:47
like my 401k i have regular brokerage

27:50
assets maybe i have some roth assets i

27:51
got cash value life insurance i got

27:53
social security how does that tie in i

27:55
got a pension what do i do with that i

27:56
got home equity

27:58
tying all this stuff together into a

28:00
cohesive

28:02
action plan to how to turn this all into

28:04
income while trying to manage the tax

28:06
efficiency and keep taxes as low as

28:08
reasonably possible over the long term

28:10
that's what i do

28:11
uh investments are a part of it but it's

28:13
a small part of it the actual carrying

28:16
out of investing and trading rebalancing

28:19
is commoditized is easy and it takes no

28:22
more time for five million dollar

28:23
account as it does a 500 000 account

28:26
100 truth

28:28
is this your passion is this what you're

28:30
going to do the rest of your life

28:32
besides how to play mandolin banjo

28:34
i did try to pick up guitar a few years

28:36
ago it did not go well i understand i

28:38
understand banjo would be even more

28:39
difficult

28:41
uh it is it is and as you mentioned my

28:44
business is that capacity i hit it in

28:46
two years i am a true solo i have zero

28:49
assistance and that's intentional

28:51
um but that doesn't mean i don't want to

28:53
keep

28:54
trying to better the industry or at

28:57
least what i perceive to be bettering

28:59
the industry

29:00
um

29:01
it doesn't mean i'm not going to keep

29:02
beating the drum about

29:04
the value and benefit of flat fees

29:07
they're not perfect no fee model is

29:08
perfect

29:09
but i think in the right circumstance

29:11
like mine again homogeneous pool of

29:13
clients all kind of getting and doing

29:15
the same things

29:16
flaffy makes sense percent of assets is

29:18
flat out dumb

29:19
um

29:20
and just continuing to educate about not

29:23
just the industry but the products the

29:25
strategies the the things i talk about

29:27
in the facebook group and youtube i am

29:29
truly passionate about that so

29:31
i i don't want my business my day job to

29:34
completely consume me i do not work 60

29:37
70 80 hours a week and there's some

29:38
times of the year where i'm much busier

29:40
than others but

29:41
my goal is to have clients

29:44
that i can properly serve and service

29:46
well

29:47
um without

29:49
you know anything falling through the

29:50
cracks without stretching myself too

29:51
thin but still giving me time to follow

29:54
what else i'm passionate about the

29:56
education of this stuff the trying to

29:57
change the industry from the inside out

29:59
and just spread the message about things

30:01
i think are important that i think

30:02
clients think are important

30:05
wayne gretzky hockey player always said

30:07
you know i don't skate

30:09
behind the puck i skate where the puck's

30:10
gonna be

30:12
and i always like to ask people like you

30:14
who i consider visionaries in the space

30:16
your pioneers

30:18
um

30:19
where's the puck

30:20
where are you skating where's the puck

30:22
going

30:23
uh in the financial world and with your

30:25
business

30:27
man you're giving me way too much credit

30:28
i'm far from a visionary

30:31
you are believe me

30:33
i i think a lot of other advisors some

30:35
flat out don't get it and we'll you know

30:37
i do get in heated debates slash

30:39
arguments on linkedin and other venues

30:41
without fee models right maybe i push

30:43
buttons too hard and i i do get so boxy

30:46
at times which i'm trying to work on

30:48
that

30:49
but i think a lot of advisors get where

30:52
i'm coming from and i've had lots of

30:54
advisors reach out to me like man i love

30:55
how you're doing i thought about that

30:57
before i didn't think it could be done

30:59
part of the problem is

31:02
advisors may be hamstrung if you already

31:04
have a business built on percent of aum

31:06
you got 100 clients or whatever it is

31:08
you can't just turn and start charging

31:10
everyone a flat fee

31:12
it means you're going to have to charge

31:13
a lot of clients more and a lot of

31:14
clients less and that's going to be

31:16
awkward conversations on both sides it

31:18
is um so even if existing advisors

31:21
genuinely feel flat fee makes more sense

31:24
they may not be able to do it whereas i

31:26
had the benefit of starting from scratch

31:29
i can structure this fee however i

31:31
wanted you know with with no

31:33
reservations or a problem take it or

31:35
leave it this is it

31:36
exactly and so i hit it hard the message

31:38
was clear from day one you know my my

31:40
positioning my messaging was

31:42
retirement decumulation focus that right

31:45
there is a bit of a standout because

31:47
most advisors are just accumulation

31:51
tax focused

31:52
a lot of advisors flat out can't do tax

31:55
if you work at a big wire house or

31:56
insurance company they will tell you you

31:57
are not allowed to do tax planning

31:59
correct right

32:00
and then and then flat fee

32:02
so

32:04
that that one by itself is a huge

32:05
differentiator the other two

32:09
aren't complete differentiators but big

32:10
enough but you package these three

32:12
together and that's what really clicked

32:14
for me distribution focused tax focus

32:17
flat fee

32:18
i i've yet to find someone that hits

32:20
those three things to the same extent i

32:21
do which is why i think those who did

32:23
find me was like boom you know if they

32:24
were looking for that here i am

32:26
pre-packaged the messaging was clear

32:28
the content the uh everything i put out

32:30
there they can see my knowledge what i

32:32
know what i don't know it's all

32:34
you know they knew what they were

32:36
getting and those that wanted it it was

32:38
a great match and i think that's why i

32:40
hit capacity within you know two years

32:42
we both work for large warehouse firms

32:44
and big firms and that's kind of both of

32:46
our backgrounds you're a lot younger

32:48
than i am but i work with firms that

32:50
were absorbed like dean witter was

32:51
absorbed by morgan stanley and payne

32:53
weber was absorbed by union bank of

32:55
switzerland

32:57
is the is the traditional legacy

32:59
brokerage model in your opinion

33:04
too broken to fix

33:09
it's it's not going to go away in my

33:11
lifetime

33:13
it's slowly getting pressure to change

33:15
from the outside and inside the writing

33:18
is on the wall that traditional

33:20
brokerage product focused relationships

33:25
aren't the wave of the future they're

33:27
still going to always need to be there

33:28
people will always need the products

33:30
that brokerages and insurance companies

33:32
sell i'm not again as much as it sounds

33:34
like i am

33:35
i am not downplaying the importance and

33:37
necessity of those products right

33:39
what i am

33:40
uh i don't say downplaying but what i

33:42
don't agree with is people who only sell

33:44
things trying to put themselves out to

33:46
the world as broader comprehensive

33:48
advisors

33:50
where am i going with this oh the

33:51
brokerage industry

33:52
um

33:55
i mean anecdotally i you know you read

33:57
investment news you read other industry

33:59
publications and and

34:01
wirehouses and insurance companies like

34:02
have been trying to put more focus

34:04
towards advisory business percent of aum

34:06
if nothing else

34:08
because it's good money it's it's steady

34:09
stable subject to market dips obviously

34:11
but it's easy way to project revenue

34:14
it's the easy way to project revenue and

34:16
and they realize planning and advice is

34:19
going to continue to be more in demand

34:21
than just a product sale or just

34:23
management of investments

34:25
so the industry is definitely

34:27
i want to say pivoting but but giving

34:30
more attention

34:31
to advice and planning

34:33
but they're going to shut by they i mean

34:35
like the brokerage industry at large

34:36
insurance industry at large are going to

34:38
struggle to find ways to get there they

34:40
can't

34:41
completely just shed off

34:43
the businesses and products they have

34:45
they need to try to find a way to

34:47
transition or at least you know do both

34:49
simultaneously somehow

34:52
i know your process is is very is just

34:54
very solid and it's facts facts based

34:57
driven

34:58
but we when we have black swan events

35:01
like like covet or

35:03
other countries invading you know pick

35:06
your country this month it might be

35:07
another one next month

35:09
and things happen that you don't foresee

35:13
from your standpoint from a planning i'm

35:15
assuming that your clients

35:17
they're like everyone else they're

35:18
worried and concerned what are you

35:20
telling them during these times

35:23
i got a few responses to that one is

35:28
to try to make the plan as good as it

35:30
can be initially and the plan should in

35:32
theory account for stuff like this we

35:35
all know

35:36
dips and geopolitical events and uh

35:39
unpredictable inflation in oil prices

35:41
and whatever

35:43
are going to happen

35:45
so try to structure your plan as best as

35:47
possible to account for those things and

35:49
now by plan notice i didn't just say

35:51
structure your investments and didn't

35:52
just say structure your insurance or

35:54
whatever

35:56
the plan is is all those things working

35:58
cohesively so so what i do

36:00
i like to think it's a mix of sort of

36:02
the the best of all worlds it's not just

36:05
insurance it's not just investments it's

36:06
not just

36:07
real estate it's kind of

36:10
everything guaranteed lifetime income is

36:13
important social security is one of the

36:15
best things

36:16
people can have

36:18
you know it you know last for life with

36:20
inflation adjustments it's the best

36:22
inflation annuity on the planet it

36:24
really is

36:25
so maximize that make the most out of

36:27
that it's definitely you know a

36:29
cornerstone of my process if people have

36:32
pensions they're lucky enough to have

36:34
traditional divine benefit pensions same

36:36
thing let's get the most out of that not

36:38
just for you but for your spouse if

36:39
you're married sure um

36:42
and then if you have annuities if you

36:44
have cash value life insurance i don't

36:45
just say shut them off you know we'll

36:47
invest no look at them how can they be

36:49
used how can they be beneficial

36:51
and the analysis comes down to you know

36:53
my basic approach

36:55
let's try to project out your expenses

36:57
as best as we reasonably can now

36:59
there'll be a lot of frankly educated

37:00
guessing because we're looking out 30

37:02
years in the future sure but doesn't

37:04
mean you don't have to do the exercise

37:05
still

37:06
and and try to figure out how much of

37:08
those expenses are basic necessities

37:10
versus fun stuff

37:12
and the goal the underlying goal is

37:14
cover as much of your basic necessities

37:16
as possible with money that can't run

37:18
out social security pension and or

37:20
annuity

37:22
if and when your basics are covered

37:25
then this is where it gets a little more

37:26
gray and depends on the client how

37:29
sensitive are they to risks you know

37:31
will they lose sleep if they see their

37:32
portfolios go down

37:34
are they gamblers at heart on the other

37:35
hand

37:36
or do they have such a sizable nest egg

37:38
that even under the worst of

37:39
circumstances they're not going to

37:41
possibly be able to spend it down

37:43
um that all helps decide do we consider

37:46
you buying more guaranteed income in the

37:48
form of an annuity or are you okay

37:51
with you know this remainder of your

37:52
financial life being

37:54
in an investable portfolio traditional

37:56
stock and bond type portfolio you know

37:58
layering some cash as well whether it's

38:00
actual cash and banks or multi-year

38:02
guaranteed annuities or something sure

38:05
factor all that in

38:07
so

38:08
what i'm going with this is

38:09
what you're referencing is the

38:11
investable portfolio right because if

38:12
you have an annuity if you have a social

38:13
security it doesn't matter what happens

38:15
in russia it doesn't matter what oil

38:16
prices are well i mean it does because

38:18
of inflation but um

38:20
your guaranteed income is there good so

38:23
it's just the investable pot that's

38:25
impacted by this stuff

38:27
and in the analysis and in the plan in

38:29
in meeting with clients to tried to

38:31
ferret out their risk tolerances risk

38:33
capacities feelings towards risk we set

38:35
up the investable portfolio to to have

38:38
enough exposure to growth to meet

38:39
whatever their goals may be be it

38:41
leaving a legacy be it simply not

38:43
running out

38:45
with not having so much risk that events

38:48
like now or what if the u.s stock

38:50
markets dropped 30 like they did during

38:52
covid sure and don't bounce back anytime

38:54
soon

38:55
aren't going to put them in a in a

38:56
position of undue harm or real financial

38:59
distress

39:00
and different clients have different

39:01
tolerances for this stuff again some

39:03
some at one extreme may want all of

39:05
their income locked up in in social

39:08
security pension annuities which is

39:09
great that's the approach we'll take

39:11
other clients are okay with this sort of

39:13
hybrid approach of get the most you can

39:15
from the lifetime income you have and

39:17
it's okay to invest the rest in a

39:19
suitable you know suitable portfolio

39:21
sure and then everywhere in between so a

39:23
long way of saying in events like now

39:26
this was going to happen i didn't

39:27
specifically know russia would invade

39:28
ukraine

39:30
but we knew some event would happen

39:32
especially the the stock markets were

39:34
long overdue for some sort of correction

39:37
i'm not surprised what's going on now is

39:39
going on with the stock markets i'm

39:40
frankly surprised things aren't down

39:41
more

39:43
um you know s p 500 is down a little

39:45
over 10 as of when we're recording this

39:47
i think

39:48
i'm surprised it's not down more i sort

39:50
of hope it to go down more to further

39:52
cool off the the peak it was at

39:54
but this was the point is this was

39:56
already accounted for

39:58
now my messaging to clients when they

40:00
sign up and you know we go through this

40:01
sort of courtship process before

40:03
becoming former

40:04
relationship is they know my views they

40:07
know i'm hands off i'm passive as long

40:09
as your allocations you know your

40:11
guaranteed income is what it is your

40:13
investable portfolio

40:14
we dial in your allocations at the onset

40:16
to the relationship knowing bad events

40:18
will happen

40:20
if and when they do we don't change

40:22
course

40:23
i rebalance every quarter

40:25
systematically without thought without

40:27
emotion i do not try to market time or

40:28
speculate because that's just gambling

40:31
every quarter i go in i rebalance

40:32
portfolios back to the target allocation

40:34
guess what i'm going to rebalance in in

40:36
10 days

40:38
clients stock allocations will be below

40:40
what their targets are because stock

40:41
markets are down that means i'm going to

40:43
sell out a bond fund buy stock funds

40:46
that forces me to to buy low sell high

40:48
you know this automatic rebalancing

40:50
um so i i don't change any part of the

40:52
process and i don't go out of my way to

40:55
write newsletters and get in front of

40:57
people with events like this good

41:00
and i have mixed feelings about that now

41:01
i realize some clients do reach out to

41:03
me and i sort of feel like i should have

41:05
got ahead of them but

41:07
i realize people will get nervous when

41:09
stock markets drop three percent in a

41:10
day

41:11
and when they when they see on the front

41:13
page of the news tanks rolling into you

41:15
know the heart of ukraine

41:17
but

41:18
again we knew stuff like this would

41:20
happen and i sort of feel like by me

41:22
proactively going out of my way to send

41:24
a special message to my clients

41:26
they may interpret that as wow if andy

41:29
feels like this is worth talking about

41:30
this must be bad

41:32
so it you know i'm conflicted with what

41:34
to do about this so far other than the

41:36
few clients that have reached out to me

41:37
i have not proactively sent a newsletter

41:40
or

41:41
an email or proactively called clients

41:44
um now if markets were to drop you know

41:46
10 a day or something maybe then i

41:48
probably should

41:50
but the correction the dip the reversal

41:52
we're in now

41:53
this was par for the course and and i

41:55
tried to explain to folks do not be

41:57
surprised if when stuff like this

41:58
happens it's happening i don't want to

42:00
draw special attention to it

42:02
for again getting people uh feared when

42:05
i don't think this is undue reason for

42:06
concern

42:08
so that's my thoughts on that um

42:10
and i did previously during covet i did

42:12
send something out

42:14
and even like six months ago i think i

42:16
sent something out

42:17
just recapping what my thought process

42:19
is what i will be doing during times of

42:22
distress

42:23
and re reiterating what people's plans

42:25
are again maximizing lifetime income

42:28
where feasible the rebalancing seek um

42:31
uh sequence of of uh

42:34
jordan blank when we do take

42:35
distributions from portfolios

42:37
of returns insurance yes

42:39
you know i don't just sell pro-rated

42:41
slices of stuff across the portfolio

42:43
stocks are down i'm selling off the bond

42:44
fund you know not the stock fund

42:47
so

42:48
what i sent clients a few months ago is

42:49
just to reiterate the process how times

42:52
of distress will be handled how your

42:54
plan already accounts for stuff like

42:55
this and already has

42:57
uh action steps built into it that will

42:59
help minimize and alleviate to some

43:01
extent alleviate

43:03
uh you know unwanted surprises in

43:04
financial markets so

43:06
that's my view

43:07
have you i'm sure you have i just wanted

43:10
to get you on

43:11
on the podcast to comment on have you

43:13
commented on

43:14
crypto and the underlying blockchain

43:16
revolution that's kind of happening

43:19
i would love to hear that from someone

43:21
like you who's been around the block a

43:22
little bit

43:25
um

43:27
yes

43:30
the blockchain

43:33
i think definitely has has potential to

43:35
be revolutionary

43:37
lots of potential use cases for how the

43:39
blockchain can can uh

43:42
rewrite how things are done how things

43:44
are accounted for how things are proved

43:47
i do not see blockchain going away

43:49
and it will only gain in importance

43:52
crypto specifically what people call

43:54
cryptocurrencies

43:57
man i struggle i i understand them well

44:01
enough i think

44:03
i wouldn't be surprised

44:05
if

44:07
crypto assets i won't name specific

44:09
names but crypto assets

44:11
continue their long-term meteoric rise

44:15
and people make boatloads of money off

44:17
them

44:18
i'd also put as much chance on crypto

44:20
assets completely collapsing down to

44:22
zero close to it whether it's because

44:24
governments flat out shut them out or

44:26
people realize it really is

44:29
the epitome of the um the what is it the

44:33
greater sucker uh

44:34
the greater full theory

44:36
the tulip bulb theory is what i call it

44:39
yeah yeah

44:40
there's truly zero intrinsic value to

44:44
crypto assets

44:46
the value is is a hundred percent based

44:48
on simple

44:50
auction market pricing whatever

44:52
someone's willing to pay for it that's

44:53
what it's worth

44:55
now again

44:56
because of that reason they can go up

44:58
forever right i'm not disputing you

45:00
can't

45:01
but it can also collapse there's

45:03
literally zero value you know with

45:05
stocks stocks are sort of out there a

45:07
little esoteric but in theory you own

45:09
share of a company and if that company

45:11
were to liquidate

45:12
you the shareholder gets paid out

45:13
whatever's left so there is some

45:15
intrinsic value right true

45:17
bonds you know things that have stated

45:19
cash flows their their value is the cash

45:21
flows they pay even precious metals

45:24
how do you value gold i mean at a

45:26
minimum it has some use use value in

45:28
making semiconductors and chips and

45:30
jewelry so like that has value

45:32
crypto has zero intrinsic value

45:35
so for that reason i i view i don't

45:38
actively invest clients in crypto if

45:40
they ask me about it my view is if you

45:42
want to put a small portion of your

45:44
network in it something you're

45:45
comfortable completely potentially going

45:47
to zero

45:48
100 fine right view it as a lottery

45:50
ticket maybe you quadruple quintuple 10

45:53
tuple your money sure

45:55
maybe it goes to zero or close to it i

45:57
would not be surprised either way

45:59
i'll leave it there that's and

46:01
one other rant on crypto actually sorry

46:02
now go ahead i want to hear it it's

46:04
fascinating

46:05
the the the word currency cryptocurrency

46:08
is such a misnomer and this is why i

46:10
think crypto as a medium of exchange

46:13
will never fully catch on

46:15
because it's not a currency it's an

46:17
asset class

46:18
every single time you buy something with

46:21
crypto what you're technically doing is

46:23
selling a piece of that crypto

46:24
that sale will have tax implications

46:27
it's no different than you using a stock

46:30
to buy something giving a share of stock

46:32
to someone in exchange for a good or

46:33
service

46:35
that's a taxable transaction

46:37
now

46:38
when you frame it that way which is the

46:40
accurate way to frame it

46:43
you know the tax implications alone make

46:45
it so unwieldy and burdensome for crypto

46:47
to ever be a widely used medium of

46:50
exchange and the irs is cracking down

46:52
and rightfully so now the irs is far

46:54
behind sure and figuring out ways to

46:57
properly think about and regulate crypto

46:59
i fully agree with that but that doesn't

47:01
mean crypto should continue this wild

47:02
west free reign of like anything goes

47:05
um

47:06
and the tax accounting for crypto

47:08
transactions is nothing short of a

47:09
nightmare because there aren't

47:11
standardized 1099s like there are for

47:13
brokerage accounts and stuff exactly

47:15
so that that concerns me um

47:18
if and when the irs continues to clamp

47:20
down a lot of people get a lot of

47:22
unwanted surprises what they thought was

47:24
their currency it's not they're

47:26
exchanging a taxable asset for something

47:28
else and there's tax implications so

47:32
bring it back to your question

47:33
blockchain i see tremendous value in

47:35
going great places

47:37
crypto

47:39
it's a completely intangible um

47:42
cloud in the sky thing that's sure it

47:44
may continue to go up

47:46
but it as a as a medium of exchange i

47:48
can't see practically how that'll ever

47:50
fully take over one off things here and

47:52
there sure but like as a replacement for

47:53
dollars no way no way great insight

47:56
phenomenal insight i was wondering with

47:59
the cut with covid which was horrific

48:01
it's funny how it's just out of the news

48:03
now at the time of this taping we're not

48:05
even talking about anymore but people

48:06
are still dying

48:08
um

48:08
has it pushed your clients to to

48:11
proactively ask more about legacy

48:14
planning have you seen that or if people

48:16
just

48:17
kind of compartmentalized it and said oh

48:19
that was a bad time i don't want to talk

48:20
about it

48:22
um

48:24
not

48:25
not wholesale no i mean there were a

48:26
couple clients who did say something

48:28
along the lines of covid and me much

48:30
more aware of my own there you go

48:32
mortality

48:34
and so charitable giving and legacy

48:36
plans became a little more important for

48:37
those folks but as a whole no i wouldn't

48:39
say it was like a cultural shift in the

48:41
way people think about what they want

48:43
their advisors to address

48:45
one of the things we do share is that i

48:47
used to wear a t-shirt around the house

48:48
when my two daughters were in dance

48:50
classes and it said i'm not the dancer

48:52
i'm the financier

48:54
um and it's and you have you have

48:56
daughters that are in the dance world so

48:58
i kind of i smiled at that

49:00
i'm assuming they're young correct

49:03
yep they are uh 12 and 14.

49:05
mine are 25 and 23 and

49:08
they just you know they've moved on from

49:10
from good old dad um and you you know a

49:13
couple other things i think people would

49:14
find interesting about andy which you

49:16
know if you you haven't enjoyed this you

49:18
you need to check yourself here because

49:20
he has been fantastic

49:22
he's uh he's a road cyclist he's that

49:24
guy on the road that's going like 30

49:25
miles an hour on a bike you're like how

49:27
does anybody do that you know

49:29
he's also a runner

49:31
um but here's the here's the part that

49:33
makes me mad at you because if my wife

49:36
finds this out she's gonna really be mad

49:38
is that you can remodel kitchens and

49:40
bathrooms in addition to being one of

49:43
the best minds in the financials

49:45
you do that as well where did that come

49:47
from you just are you just one of those

49:49
guys that tries to figure that stuff out

49:50
as you're making making custom furniture

49:52
as well

49:54
uh

49:55
yeah that's part of it so i have to

49:57
attribute the the uh

50:00
natural abilities and and fascination to

50:02
my father

50:03
so when we were growing up he

50:05
single-handedly remodeled our house due

50:07
to lack of time and money it took them i

50:09
think 14 years so

50:13
so my whole childhood was around various

50:15
forms of demolition and construction in

50:17
our house

50:18
and i remember

50:20
one christmas he was in the process of

50:22
redoing the living room walls were

50:24
gutted there's no insulation no

50:26
sheetrock

50:27
it was cold we live in new jersey

50:29
and uh

50:31
you know we celebrated christmas with a

50:33
small little christmas tree on the table

50:34
saw which was in the living room at the

50:36
time

50:37
with no walls we all had jackets on

50:39
because it was that cold in the house

50:41
and that was a large part of my

50:43
childhood so i was always helping build

50:45
fix there you go get a tool for him

50:48
and i don't know when i was in college i

50:50
just sort of had this desire to to make

50:52
things with my hands and started

50:54
watching a lot of tv shows about

50:55
woodworking home improvements

50:57
when i got out of school moved into my

50:59
own house rental house with my wife then

51:00
girlfriend

51:02
just i built a bird house you know in

51:04
the kitchen of our apartment at the time

51:06
and just slowly progress to do that's

51:08
the first step

51:09
that's the first step

51:11
the birdhouse so i need to commission

51:14
the andy panko

51:16
uh um table or a coffee table i need to

51:20
get that

51:21
from you if you want to see some of my

51:22
stuff go to pankowoodworks.com

51:24
panco woodworks.com you know what's

51:26
funny i'm going to put that on your site

51:28
so pancakewoodworks.com

51:31
now it's not a business it's really just

51:33
me kind of not having a place to show

51:35
some of my projects and things i've done

51:38
but anyway that's that's fantastic one

51:40
last question or just because i call it

51:42
teen on but it's tenant financial

51:44
t-e-n-o-n financial what's that mean

51:47
woodworking term oh interesting story

51:50
so

51:51
do you i'll first give you the the sappy

51:54
typical i want the sappy one first i'm

51:56
from the south yeah

51:58
sappy one typical cheesy one is i'm

52:01
passionate about woodworking that's a

52:03
fact and so i wanted a name for my

52:06
business that ties into me and what i'm

52:08
passionate about

52:10
also tenon is a type of woodworking

52:12
joint a mortise and tenon okay so a

52:14
tenon is a square peg that goes into a

52:16
square hole simple but super sturdy

52:20
so if you wanted the the fuzzy you know

52:22
nice nation it's that

52:25
tenon is indicative of a good plan

52:28
doesn't need to be complicated

52:30
or or carried away

52:32
to be effective the mortise and tenon

52:34
joint is one of the simple yet strongest

52:36
woodworking joints there is so that's

52:37
how i envision my financial planning it

52:39
doesn't need to be difficult to be good

52:41
that's the sappy story i love that let's

52:44
get give the uh give you a hard line

52:46
sort of story what's the hard line story

52:48
on that

52:49
the the biggest limiting factor in

52:51
trying to come up with the name for my

52:52
business was website domain availability

52:56
i i wanted something short and sweet i

52:58
didn't want like blah blah blah blah

53:00
blah financial.com right you know it

53:01
would take a half hour to type

53:03
um i didn't want my name in the company

53:06
i didn't want something dash f a or dash

53:09
fp i wanted just like something

53:11
something two words

53:13
and for the life of me i spent weeks

53:16
and had ajita over coming up with every

53:18
single word i can think of i like it

53:21
searching for web domain availability

53:23
i did all the all the typical cheesy

53:24
stuff things about lighthouses and

53:26
compasses and um god you know blueprints

53:29
like all the corny cheesy stuff

53:31
that is so endemic in uh financial value

53:33
but i like it tenant indeed

53:35
the of the percentage of clients that

53:37
you've talked to how many understood

53:39
what that meant

53:40
nobody cares i care well what i'm saying

53:44
is they hire me because they know andy

53:45
from facebook or youtube they they do

53:47
not give a squat about my company name

53:49
so you don't have any professional

53:50
woodworkers that go you know what

53:52
that name right there sold me oh man

53:55
funny story so

53:56
i forgot to mention this in my early

53:58
stages of business development so march

54:00
29 2020

54:03
i took a gamble on business development

54:05
and there's a there's a national

54:07
woodworking expo that tours the country

54:09
and they fill up like huge expo halls

54:11
please tell me you better put please

54:13
tell me you had a booth i bought a table

54:15
i bought it i love it

54:17
so i went to this this expo every year

54:19
for the last 15 years as an attendee and

54:22
it's all like tool manufacturers

54:23
woodworking guilds and whatever

54:26
and i thought

54:27
10 in financial

54:29
i thought a few things

54:31
thousands of potentially my target

54:33
market you know woodworkers are

54:34
typically older 50 plus sure so right

54:36
there you know that's that's one good

54:38
sign

54:39
they'll see my sign 10 in financial

54:42
everyone in that room is going to know

54:43
what a tenant is right

54:45
i'd hope it would spark some like oh

54:47
yeah i have a natural affinity with this

54:48
guy because of woodworking as opposed to

54:50
someone from you know major wire house

54:53
whatever

54:54
and so for three thousand bucks i bought

54:56
a table i bought a bunch of signage um i

54:59
made up uh

55:01
custom business card holders uh you know

55:03
my own woodwork out of course i had

55:06
these on display i had custom mechanical

55:08
pencils woodworkers love mechanical

55:10
pencils because the points are always

55:11
sharp sure

55:12
and you know easy to refill so i made up

55:15
mechanical pencils with tendon financial

55:16
on it

55:18
absolute bust

55:20
over the course of the weekend i gave

55:21
out maybe three business cards i gave

55:24
away probably 300 pencils just just to

55:26
get rid of them

55:27
um

55:28
i i had a conversation with five people

55:31
maybe while i was there

55:33
zero follow-up afterward

55:35
so

55:37
i knew it was risky i i knew the chances

55:39
of success were probably small but i was

55:40
like this is going to be a tremendous

55:42
flop or a stroke of genius it was a

55:44
tremendous flop

55:46
but

55:46
i'm glad i did it it was a good

55:48
experience and it helped me realize i'm

55:50
not that guy i wasn't out working the

55:51
room i was standing in front of my booth

55:54
i had a computer monitor set up with

55:55
e-money where i can show people like

55:56
yeah this is cool stuff i can do

55:59
but i wasn't out there like pat and

56:00
backs and you know trying to drum up

56:02
business and you just that's not me

56:04
that's a great pandemic happening yeah

56:07
and people always need to get online and

56:08
get active socially yeah and find my

56:10
voice virtually and that's what really

56:11
clicked marketing's an art not a science

56:14
we all know that i mean it's it's hard

56:16
it's hard work but hey um we kind of ran

56:18
out of time but i'm going to hold you to

56:20
coming back because you know i'm going

56:21
to make you tell a joke so i'm going to

56:23
give you preparation up front you know

56:25
we'll bring you back on the on the show

56:27
and and have you

56:28
dig in and tell us what's new in your

56:30
world because i have this strange

56:31
feeling here that we're catching you

56:34
really early

56:35
and um and real happy to do that because

56:37
i think your your uh your future is

56:40
really really bright because i think

56:42
you're going to do some things that you

56:43
haven't even thought of yet from

56:46
marketing and expansion of the idea and

56:48
the strategy which is needed out here so

56:51
we really appreciate you being on the

56:53
program and i appreciate every single

56:56
one of you out there listening on the

56:57
podcast platforms

56:58
and on watching this on the youtube

57:00
channel and i'll see you next time on

57:02
fun

57:03
with annuities

57:09
thanks for listening to fun with

57:11
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57:16
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57:43
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57:49
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57:59
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58:03
[Music]

58:13
you