079 Loren Feldman: Transition To Retirement As A Life Entrepreneur

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welcome to fun with annuities with your

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host me stan the annuity man america's

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annuity agent can annuities be fun can

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contractual guarantees be fun

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absolutely they can find out the brutal

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facts about annuities with no sales

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pitches or high pressure nonsense just

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the brutal and factual annuity truth

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which is all you need to hear

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let's have some fun with annuities and

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let's have that fun start right now

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[Music]

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welcome to fun with annuities i'm your

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host stan the annuity man america's

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annuity agent license in all 50 states

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this is the number one annuity podcast

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on the planet for a reason and that

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reason is we bring on people that

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aren't just going to talk about money

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they're going to talk about life they're

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going to talk about specific things that

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they focus on and they are experts in

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and today's person that's on the podcast

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we're so happy that he's here his name

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is lauren feldman

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um and he's the editor-in-chief and

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founder of something called 21 hats and

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we're going to get to that

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21 hats is a

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is a platform for business owners where

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he edits a daily newsletter for

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entrepreneurs

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and hosts a podcast called 21 hats

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he's got a big time background so let's

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just kind of go through some of it not

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all of it

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he has um he also co-hosted a call-in

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show for business owners on sirius xm

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radio called mind your business

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and previously he was a senior editor at

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forbes which you all have heard of where

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he created the forbes smile giants

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franchise which was responsible for

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entrepreneurial coverage in print and

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online both both sides

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before that he was a small business

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editor of the new york times

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where he started the you're the ball

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small business blog you might be

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familiar with he's also been editor of

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websites at both inc that's inc with the

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period inc and fast company and before

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going digital

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he was the top editor and writer for

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print magazine such as ink philadelphia

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manhattan inc

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the american lawyer money and george

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which i'm not mistaken

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is the john kennedy jr

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effort before john tragically passed

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away he's also written for gq the new

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york times magazine the new york times

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sunday business section

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obviously he's talented and busy at the

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same time

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welcome to fun with annuities lauren

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feldman lauren thanks so much for being

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on the podcast oh thank you stan so

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happy to be here

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um was i right about the george magazine

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was that that was was i right about that

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you're basically right it is the john uh

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kennedy uh magazine that you recall but

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i actually uh went to the magazine uh

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sadly after he had passed away uh

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a typical mistake in the publishing

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industry um the

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french company has shed philippa that uh

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actually owned the the publication

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when he died they put him on the cover

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and of course the magazine sold out in

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instance and they decided that meant

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that there really was a future for this

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magazine even without him so they hired

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a successor and his successor hired me

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as the number two and we gave it a go

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for about a year but it didn't work out

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just the basics of 21 hats neat i like

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you know the website if and we're going

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to have this on on on our website at

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theannuityman.com lauren's going to have

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his permanent page there we can go and

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his his site is 21 the number 21 2-1

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hats

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all one all one no no space 2-1

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space21hats.com

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tell me about 21 hats where did that

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come from

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you know it really grew out of the

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history that uh you already elaborated

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i've basically been doing the same thing

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covering entrepreneurship and business

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owners for about 20 years uh first at

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inc then at the new york times then at

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forbes at each place i i learned a lot i

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i felt like i figured out important

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things about what can actually be

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helpful in terms of supporting business

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owners and reporting on what they do

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but i never really felt as though i was

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able to put it all together in one spot

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each of those publications had their own

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mission their own needs their own hopes

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and dreams and what i was hoping to do

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didn't quite fit with any of them so

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eventually i decided to go off and try

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to do it on my own which is what i'm

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doing now and 21 comes from what you're

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wearing 21 hats i'm assuming well um the

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the point uh as as i'm sure you realize

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is that to be a business owner you have

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to wear a lot of hats and nobody's

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prepared to wear them all so we're there

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to help you figure out the ones you need

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help with the number 21 specifically is

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a little bit arbitrary uh to be honest i

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kind of like the sound of it and the url

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was available so that's what i went with

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yeah the the better story i think we're

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going to come up with right now is

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lauren played um running back for let's

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pick a school for um

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rutgers and he was 21 and that's how it

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i don't know where'd you go to school

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how did i forget you know that that's

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what it was

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he was point guard for st john's

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and his number was 21 and he set the uh

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and we could just keep going from there

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i think it's interesting that you're on

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because

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entrepreneurs and i'm a serial

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entrepreneur um

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i love i love saying that because it

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sounds a little edgy but i am a serial

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entrepreneur i mean i i love falling off

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that cliff every day um but my job in

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the as the annuity man is to transfer

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risk when people buy an annuity they're

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transferring the rest of the annuity

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company to do specific things whether

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it's income or protect principle or

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long-term care or legacy whatever but

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entrepreneurs

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are all about risk

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um

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is this a good environment for

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entrepreneurs is there ever a bad

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environment for entrepreneurs

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that's such an interesting question um

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i i think there are good and bad

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environments but they aren't necessarily

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what people think um you know you always

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like after the great recession and then

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coming out of the worst of the pandemic

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uh which i know isn't completely over

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yet despite our

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best wishes

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um

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you know there there are always a lot of

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uh businesses that get started during

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periods like that and there's a lot of

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coverage of it suggesting you know what

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my what a time to start a business isn't

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this uh crazy but it actually makes a

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lot of sense to start a business during

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a difficult time period for for all

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sorts of reasons part of it is just

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necessity some people lose their jobs

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and can't find another one and

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you know they're kind of forced to do

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something that perhaps they always

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wanted to do anyway um but didn't want

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to walk away from from a job that they

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thought was secure and then suddenly it

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wasn't secure and they decided to do

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what they wanted to do and that can be

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you know a fabulous thing even during

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what looks like a a terrible time the

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other thing is that if you if you have a

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good idea no matter how good it is

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it still takes time to figure it out and

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to get things right and it

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it's not a bad thing to have it happen

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during a down period when things might

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be a little slower than otherwise you

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can see what works and play around a

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little bit and you know get it right and

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then when the economy picks up and

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you know your your phone starts ringing

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a little bit more you're ready for it

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that's that's a positive thing so

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yeah you know i i think

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a lot of it has to do

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you know you're going to have less

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you're going to have fewer startups when

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the economy is roaring and people are

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you know gainfully employed and not

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necessarily looking to go somewhere

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right it's a little bit different right

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now you know we've

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we've been on a downtrend for a long

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time there have been fewer and fewer

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startups each year uh for

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you know quite a few years now this past

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year uh since 2020 it really picked up

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and obviously a lot of that it was by

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necessity people who you know didn't

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have another alternative uh but i'm

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hoping that's a positive thing and it

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keeps going and that we you know we do

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have more startups now you know there

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are other factors of course um like you

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know i i think what's happened with the

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uh consolidation of the big tech

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companies is not good for startups uh so

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that you know there are other

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extrinsic factors like that that come

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into it and and right now that's that's

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a difficult thing you know

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facebook and apple and google they're

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not making it easier for startups these

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days

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yeah i i always say that there's no

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timing when you have passion and there's

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no politics and there's no parties when

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you're passionate about what you do you

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know people that know my story about

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starting you know no one wakes up in the

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morning lauren and says you know what i

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want to be stan the annuity man no one

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does that but

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what i saw in the annuity industry was a

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gaping hole that still exists that i'm

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the only one that seems to be feeling

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of selling contractual guarantees

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telling the truth being brutally factual

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i call myself the walking middle finger

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of annuity truth and providing

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information and access to

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to all of the quotes that that people

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don't have to sign up for and we really

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um have a

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mantra here that this is where annuities

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are bought and unsold and i you know

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that's my passion my passion is kind of

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flipping the industry upside down and i

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would assume most entrepreneurs

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have that as well um the people that are

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listening to this probably fall into two

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categories they're either

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entrepreneurs or a a personalities that

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are now going into chapter two of their

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life

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and or they're entrepreneurs legit right

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now that are trying to figure out do

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annuities fit and i think that's that's

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the juggling act and when you talk to

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these entrepreneurs and interview them

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and on your podcast and when you write

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are our entrepreneurs just all consumed

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with surviving and and and taking those

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risks are they also thinking about okay

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down the road i'm gonna have to

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plan for retirement and look to transfer

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risk what are you hearing from them

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very few of them are sufficiently

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planning for retirement uh

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i understand that

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um yeah you know it's not even but it's

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not even just the ones who are fighting

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for survival um

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way too few business owners think

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seriously about issues like succession

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and retirement it's it's just not top of

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mind for for enough of them and that's

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that's a really unfortunate thing that a

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lot of people have tried to address and

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hopefully it will break through more

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but it's interesting what you say

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about you know thinking about the risks

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you know on the podcast i do i've been

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talking to the same group of seven or

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eight business owners since before the

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pandemic hit and i i talked to three of

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them each week and when i started before

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the pandemic i wasn't sure how long i

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would stick with them you know maybe

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people get tired of the stories tired

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voices want to meet at other groups but

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when the pandemic hit things got

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really dramatic for each of them and i

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think my listeners got invested in

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figuring out are they going to make it

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or not and it it became a very different

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conversation we had some very emotional

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talks with entrepreneurs who weren't

11:24
sure their business was going to survive

11:26
this period but there are also other

11:28
businesses on the group who did far

11:31
better during the pandemic than they

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would have anticipated uh if there

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hadn't been a pandemic

11:36
so you know there's it's hard to

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generalize you just don't know and um

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what what it what it adds up to is for

11:45
most small business owners they're just

11:47
stretched too thin whether times are

11:49
good or or it's you know whether times

11:51
are bad obviously but even when times

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are good you know that that can be

11:55
catastrophic in its own way if you can't

11:57
keep up and you can't you know keep to

12:00
your commitments and that happens all

12:01
the time as well so

12:03
you know unfortunately succession and

12:05
retirement planning is usually something

12:08
that is

12:09
left you know and i and i totally agree

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with that i fall into the category from

12:13
the business owner of don't confuse a

12:16
virus or a pandemic with genius uh we

12:19
were set up in a direct and consumer

12:21
model when that wasn't the cool thing to

12:23
be

12:24
and i just thought that was the way

12:25
annuities as

12:27
should be sold and so when the pandemic

12:29
hit just insight for the listeners that

12:31
probably don't know this

12:32
we've had record years only because

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um during this

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and i feel i don't feel guilty about

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that

12:40
because we've worked hard and we but but

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i also am not beating my chest that you

12:44
know we hung the moon just because we

12:46
were ready for it just technology-wise

12:49
now everyone's trying to catch up with

12:50
what we're trying to do

12:53
but i think it also comes down to just

12:55
still the passion of what you're trying

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to provide to the client

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um

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you know

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one of the things that that's

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interesting as we're talking about this

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is i'm thinking about entrepreneurism

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from a couple of standpoints um because

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i'm right now i'm in my late 50s um who

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knows how long the standing annuity man

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thing will go hopefully forever but

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there will come a time in my life that

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there will be a chapter two of my

13:21
entrepreneurism and i think a lot of

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people listening to this lauren are

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thinking

13:26
yeah you know i did that business thing

13:28
and i did it hard but i'm still kind of

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a

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entrepreneur

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can you address in your mind the the

13:36
person that's transitioning to chapter

13:38
two which is they're retiring thinking

13:40
about retirement or not not working like

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they used to but they still want to push

13:45
themselves and be creative do you see

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that as a as a as a gap that that you

13:51
probably need to fill and address of

13:53
those baby boomers and there's 10 000

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hitting age 65 every day which to me is

13:58
a demographic tidal wave but there's a

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lot of those still want to play and they

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still want to i don't know i must say

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take risk but take some of their money

14:07
and still try things

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you know

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it's a great great question and i think

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i i haven't done a serious study of this

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but anecdotally from the people that i

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know i will tell you

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that few people are better positioned

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than entrepreneurs and business owners

14:26
to have that second chapter and to find

14:30
a meaningful way to

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to do something that they really care

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about once they've reached a point where

14:36
they're ready to step back from whatever

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it is they've spent most of their time

14:40
building and creating but the one thing

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that gets away in the way of that is

14:44
that too many business owners as we were

14:47
saying don't prepare uh for a transition

14:50
if you know if you're working too much

14:52
in your business you can't sell it you

14:54
can't turn it over to somebody else you

14:57
need to make yourself operationally

14:59
irrelevant and

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that's a hard bridge for a lot of people

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to cross but for those that do the

15:05
opportunities are incredible they're

15:06
just so many things that i see people

15:08
doing whether it's you know some people

15:10
start a non-profit that uh focuses in an

15:14
area that they are passionate about uh

15:17
you know oftentimes it's helping other

15:19
entrepreneurs in some way shape or form

15:22
um the other thing you can do is uh

15:25
volunteer your time or yeah it doesn't

15:27
have to be voluntary you know you can

15:29
help out at a startup wear one of those

15:32
one or two of those hats for somebody

15:34
who is overly burdened and you know

15:37
maybe you become a director

15:39
you sit on a board you get paid a little

15:42
bit and of course you know the most

15:44
obvious one of all is there's always the

15:46
opportunity to

15:47
take some of the money that you've made

15:49
and invested in somebody else's uh

15:52
vision and and help out a little bit and

15:55
that's you know those opportunities

15:56
aren't there for everybody uh when they

15:58
reach that stage of life it's it's a

16:00
great thing for entrepreneurs to to be

16:02
able to to

16:03
you know figure out and find a way to to

16:06
remain engaged in something they love

16:09
i tell my clients all the time that

16:11
they're always asking me where do i put

16:12
my money where's the best place to put

16:14
and there are times that i say you know

16:16
with your background and most these

16:18
people are successful and they're and

16:20
they're talking to me and they have high

16:21
net worths angel investing is a form of

16:24
entrepreneurism i do think that

16:26
that um the country and maybe

16:29
your podcast and what you're doing could

16:30
address this down the road is looking at

16:33
entrepreneurism in two phases which is

16:35
that that 25 year old to 50 year old

16:38
phase where you're just going 100 miles

16:39
an hour you roll as i say you're rolling

16:41
the dice overhand with a running start

16:44
and then there's that 50 to 75 or 50 to

16:46
80

16:47
because we're all living longer um

16:51
50 to 80 entrepreneur that's a little

16:53
different it's a little bit more scaled

16:55
back and as we all know the older we are

16:57
we kind of are better entrepreneurs

16:58
because we've had our rear ends kicked a

17:00
few times and we don't make those

17:02
mistakes i always liked the story about

17:04
ray kroc who was i believe in his 60s

17:06
when he actually founded

17:08
mcdonald's and he had been through a lot

17:11
of ups and downs and and and you're not

17:14
going to hit every shot you're there

17:15
there's not going to be 100 success

17:18
um

17:20
you know i would encourage you to think

17:21
about those those people that are

17:23
listening to this podcast which are

17:25
you know they're not ready you know they

17:27
might be 65 they might be 70 but don't

17:29
tell them that

17:33
because they'll kick your rear end and

17:34
they're ready to keep going

17:36
regardless of what the spouse wants them

17:38
to do one of the um

17:40
one of the people on my podcast is a guy

17:43
who who owns the the largest picture

17:46
framing operation in america it's a a

17:50
business based in chicago he's 65 years

17:52
old he's never had a real job he's been

17:54
doing this for 43 years he loves what he

17:57
does but he in some ways he's exactly

18:00
the person you were talking about in

18:01
some ways he's a little bit different

18:03
he's exactly the person you're talking

18:04
about in that he's become a much better

18:07
manager so

18:08
he is operationally irrelevant that

18:10
business can run without him it took him

18:13
more than 20 years to get to that point

18:15
probably 30 years um but he's there now

18:19
but he loves what he does he loves going

18:21
to work every day he doesn't play golf

18:24
he's not looking for a hobby he's not

18:26
looking for something else to do he

18:28
wants to keep doing it it's actually

18:29
created a succession issue for him

18:31
because

18:32
he it's hard for him to hire a number

18:34
two for a couple of reasons somebody who

18:36
could possibly take it over now he's got

18:38
a younger son who might be interested in

18:42
it but he's not sure but the thing is he

18:44
doesn't want to give up running the

18:46
business so what how does he hire a

18:48
number two with a promise that well you

18:50
know if i get hit by a truck tomorrow or

18:53
maybe in 20 years if if i'm done with

18:56
this maybe then you'll take over um

18:59
he's he he doesn't want to do that he

19:01
doesn't think the person

19:03
there's a a really good person out there

19:05
who would accept those terms so he keeps

19:07
running the business and enjoying his

19:09
life which you know

19:11
maybe that's fine maybe that's the right

19:12
answer for him one of the things that um

19:15
there are younger people on this podcast

19:17
that listen to it because it's fun and

19:19
we bring on interesting smart people

19:21
with high iqs but one of the things

19:23
about life insurance and annuities we do

19:25
have younger clients i typically say to

19:27
people if you're if you're less than 50

19:28
you probably don't need an annuity it's

19:30
just that's just reality

19:32
but in some states annuities and life

19:34
insurance can protect

19:36
you and as as an entrepreneur from

19:38
lawsuits frivolous lawsuits creditors

19:41
things like that

19:42
and i do have

19:45
a pretty good amount of of young

19:46
entrepreneurs who have told me that

19:48
situation or read an article i've done

19:50
and they're using annuities and life

19:52
insurance for that creditor protection

19:54
because we do live in a litigious world

19:57
out there

19:58
do the entrepreneurs you talk about talk

20:00
to are they are they concerned about

20:03
not just legitimate litigation but some

20:06
of the frivolous ambulance chasing

20:08
nothing against those people i'm sure

20:09
their wife makes a really nice peach

20:10
cobbler but

20:12
chasing after money for money's sake is

20:15
that a concern you hear from

20:17
entrepreneurs oh absolutely absolutely

20:20
everybody uh everybody worries about you

20:23
know the frivolous slip and fall or

20:26
something of that nature i mean if you

20:28
have a location you have exposure um

20:32
and

20:32
you know what happens in other ways the

20:34
guy i was just talking about the picture

20:36
framer he was just telling us uh the

20:38
other week about this bizarre situation

20:40
he has with his uh phone uh service

20:43
provider at t

20:45
they

20:46
they started over billing him a couple

20:48
by the way we love att i have an att

20:51
tattoo on my left arm

20:53
but go ahead

20:54
they started

20:57
they started over billing him a couple

20:59
years ago they were double billing him

21:01
and when he reported it they said don't

21:03
worry about it just

21:05
the easiest way to handle this is keep

21:07
paying it and then we'll settle up with

21:08
you so he kept paying it it got up to

21:11
six figures a hundred thousand dollars

21:14
and when it finally after you know going

21:17
after them they said well tell you what

21:19
we're gonna fly in a lawyer and we'll uh

21:22
we'll go to um some kind of arbitration

21:25
and we'll we'll figure this out and they

21:27
forced him to take a you know a 10

21:30
haircut on what they owed him uh by

21:33
basically strong arming him saying um

21:36
if um if you don't accept this then

21:39
we're just going to take you to court

21:40
and you don't know what's going to

21:41
happen in court you got to pay your

21:42
lawyer and you could lose so you better

21:44
accept this deal um so he did it a

21:48
couple years ago and then

21:50
just a couple of months ago it happened

21:53
again they started double billing him

21:54
again and

21:56
they had the same conversation but at

21:59
this time this time they actually he he

22:01
refused to pay and they shut off his

22:03
phones so we had to go back and pay

22:04
double pay they're back in negotiations

22:06
again so

22:08
you know these entrepreneur and me would

22:10
be like there might be another phone

22:12
company i mean nothing against a t i'm

22:14
sure that's a glitch in the system but

22:16
he has looked into that the problem is

22:19
based on his location

22:21
he could not find another provider that

22:24
could give him the technology that he

22:27
needed to run a major factory so sure at

22:31
t really is the only choice there

22:33
yeah no i listen we all have struggles

22:36
as entrepreneurs and the key is just to

22:38
try to compartmentalize them and know

22:40
that every day you're you're catching

22:43
bullets because the bullets bullets are

22:44
coming at you one other thing that i was

22:46
just thinking about as you were talking

22:48
about that is a lot of people

22:49
that are clients or potential clients of

22:52
minor people that are listening to this

22:53
podcast

22:55
they have retired with significant

22:57
wealth and

22:59
and they're almost an entrepreneur

23:01
managing

23:02
their money

23:03
working with experts like me and other

23:05
people that that manage their money and

23:07
then setting it up via cpas and and you

23:10
know people say well i'd love to have a

23:12
problem having too much money

23:14
the people that are listening to this

23:15
and watching this they're saying well

23:18
yeah but it is

23:20
it is kind of a a part-time job somewhat

23:22
entrepreneurial to figure out how to

23:25
maximize everything that you have within

23:27
the legal system um i think a lot of the

23:30
baby boomers are falling into that well

23:32
i'm retired now and i'm going to go play

23:34
some golf but i've got to make sure that

23:36
everything's lined up for the kids and

23:38
the wife and those type of things

23:40
um i you know entrepreneurs having been

23:43
one you do put everything on the back

23:45
burner except for the business but i do

23:47
think that there's we're going into a

23:49
world now where people are getting older

23:52
and there's different types of

23:53
entrepreneurs i don't think entrepreneur

23:55
just means i'm going to start a sandwich

23:57
shop or i'm going to start a service

23:59
business or i'm going to start this it

24:01
could mean i started the sandwich shop

24:04
i'm now done with that now i'm either

24:06
consulting or i know there's a lot of

24:08
good organizations where executives can

24:10
volunteer

24:12
um i think score is one of them where

24:14
you can do that and help entrepreneurs

24:16
and then i think the third one is

24:18
i mean the family business the family

24:21
money is its own entrepreneurial play

24:24
that needs to be respected and addressed

24:27
and i don't see any

24:29
ancillary businesses out there that are

24:31
addressing that you have the retirement

24:33
planners etc but it but it is a business

24:36
for people that have you know a million

24:38
to five million in in net worth or even

24:40
more

24:42
they'll tell you it's it's a lot of work

24:44
to keep it going even if you hire people

24:46
to handle it for you any comments on

24:47
that

24:48
well there's so much in that uh one

24:51
thing that occurred to me early on when

24:52
you were talking is i think

24:55
there's a real opportunity for for you

24:58
and

24:59
other experts like you to help

25:01
entrepreneurs even before they step back

25:04
because

25:05
there's you know i guess it's part of

25:07
the occupational hazard of being an

25:10
entrepreneur

25:12
i think too many of them don't realize

25:15
that they take enough risk in their

25:17
everyday life they shouldn't be

25:19
overloading themselves with risk with

25:22
the money that they take off the table

25:24
from their business

25:25
and i you know i have this conversation

25:28
all the time you know that

25:30
they they just they love

25:32
not i shouldn't say they it's not like

25:34
it's all of them but there's a

25:36
particular slice of them and it's not a

25:38
small slice

25:40
that it just loves the game um they

25:44
they're smart people they know business

25:47
and as a result they don't want to put

25:49
their money in an index fund they

25:52
they they want to put it on black they

25:54
want to put it on red and they you know

25:57
i i think

25:58
they need good advice

26:01
to

26:02
be smart with their money because as

26:04
much as they as smart as they are as

26:05
much as they know about business they

26:07
aren't necessarily experts about

26:08
investing and

26:10
i think that's a real issue for a lot of

26:12
them i'm fascinated to know the details

26:16
of you know there's bird watchers and

26:17
there's people that go watch whales and

26:19
there's there's

26:20
and then there's lauren feldman and

26:21
lauren feldman is an entrepreneur

26:23
watcher which is kind of bizarre

26:25
but what fascinates you about the

26:28
entrepreneurial space is it the a

26:30
personality is it the risk-taking is it

26:32
the energy

26:33
is it the creativity

26:36
what has it in because looking back at

26:38
your

26:39
lineage of just what you've done it's

26:41
always been in that space was that

26:43
something that was forced upon you when

26:45
you got there you said oh yeah this is

26:47
it or was this something that was

26:49
internal that you're like what makes

26:51
these people tick

26:53
you know um

26:55
again another great question um i when i

26:58
started out i was um

27:01
i i worked it mostly at magazines it was

27:03
a very different media environment i

27:05
loved working at long-form magazines i

27:07
love being able to write a magazine

27:10
story where i would get a month or more

27:12
to to really explore a topic and try to

27:15
write something definitive about it and

27:18
to me uh i i had broad interests you

27:21
know it could be business but it could

27:22
also be sports or politics or any number

27:26
of issues and i had the opportunity to

27:29
uh to write a lot of stories and and

27:31
just learn a lot of things by being a

27:34
nosy reporter who would show up and

27:35
stick around way too long and ask a lot

27:38
of uh impertinent questions i love doing

27:42
that but it became less economically

27:44
viable after the internet came along and

27:47
um you know i i started doing more

27:50
editing and less writing um and then

27:53
uh i guess kind of developed a little

27:55
bit of a

27:57
specialty in being involved in

27:59
rethinking and redesigning magazines

28:02
which i love to do that's an exercise in

28:04
rebranding

28:05
you know it's it's fun it's exciting

28:07
it's creative i love doing that and it

28:09
took me to inc magazine where you know i

28:12
had some business background i had a

28:13
degree in economics and i covered

28:16
business a little bit but it was more

28:17
about big business it was or investing i

28:20
didn't know entrepreneurship at all i

28:22
went to inc thinking i would help them

28:24
rebrand rethink um and move on within a

28:28
year or two but a couple of things

28:29
happen one uh i went there in 2002 and

28:34
the market just kept getting worse for

28:37
media publications and it became harder

28:39
to find that next gig

28:41
while i was there

28:42
i kind of fell in love with the topic

28:44
and also the the people i was working

28:46
with at the magazine and the people i

28:49
was covering the entrepreneurs and it

28:51
was you you started this with a list of

28:53
was it this was it that it was all the

28:54
things you mentioned especially the

28:56
creativity um and especially

28:58
understanding the type of risk they take

29:00
because

29:01
i was

29:03
like a lot of journalists and to this

29:05
day some of the smartest journalists i

29:06
me business journalists don't really

29:08
understand this

29:10
but entrepreneurs take a different kind

29:12
of risk

29:13
you know

29:13
a lot of

29:15
my colleagues in the media industry

29:17
think that the risks are taken in

29:19
silicon valley and on wall street and

29:21
obviously there are risks taken there

29:23
but they're taken with other people's

29:25
money it's a different thing it's not

29:27
the same thing as an entrepreneur who

29:29
borrows against their mortgage or credit

29:32
cards or credit cards and

29:35
and then you know puts it all into their

29:37
dream that may or may not make it and

29:40
i i just loved

29:43
talking to people who had the courage to

29:46
take that leap

29:48
and uh and pursue something that they

29:52
you know really believed in but

29:54
couldn't tell you for sure was going to

29:56
succeed that that to me is is an amazing

29:59
thing to do and so i would talk to my

30:02
my colleagues and they would say you

30:04
know i understand small business is

30:05
important in the aggregate

30:07
you know

30:08
i forget that the percentage of jobs the

30:10
percentage of the economy it's huge but

30:13
but they're small businesses you know

30:15
who cares about it well here's why i

30:17
care about any one small business

30:19
because that one small business is

30:21
somebody's dream and i love hearing the

30:23
stories of how people do it and you know

30:26
a lot of them fail uh part of what

30:28
attracted to me

30:30
me to it as well

30:31
is it's the puzzle solving aspect of it

30:34
why do certain businesses succeed and

30:36
why do some of them fail and from a from

30:39
a journalist standpoint it's it's a real

30:42
challenge to report on those because you

30:44
know if i'm covering a public company i

30:46
can go to yahoo finance and share all

30:48
the information i need and everything i

30:50
need to know including you know people

30:52
to call up whether they're analysts or

30:54
former employees or

30:56
competitors if i'm writing about

30:59
somebody's small business there are very

31:01
few people who really know what's going

31:03
on with that business and even the owner

31:06
may not really be clear depending on

31:08
where they are in their journey they may

31:11
or may not really understand why that

31:13
business is succeeding or not succeeding

31:15
at any given point in time so to report

31:17
on that and write you know

31:19
authoritatively about what's working or

31:21
not working is is a real challenge one

31:25
you know i'll be the first to admit we i

31:27
don't always get right we don't always

31:28
get right it's it's impossible but we do

31:31
our best and having done this for 20

31:34
years i feel like i've developed pretty

31:35
good instincts and i know the right

31:37
questions to ask at least i certainly

31:39
don't know all the answers but i think i

31:41
know the right questions what's the

31:43
biggest flaw that you have kind of if

31:47
you could categorize this and you've

31:48
talked to a lot of entrepreneurs what's

31:50
the flaw you hear

31:52
over and over and over again from

31:54
entrepreneurs i can tell you for me

31:57
it's um

31:59
i think the older i get the more i admit

32:01
the less i know even though i'm

32:03
successful i think is is is it that

32:06
know-it-all

32:08
bravado for lack of a better phrase or

32:10
is it something else that is the flaw

32:12
with entrepreneurs whether they're

32:14
successful or not

32:17
you know i wouldn't call it a flaw but

32:19
you're on to something i think you put

32:21
your finger on the right thing um

32:24
there

32:25
for some it is bravado uh for many

32:28
that's a piece of it but here's the

32:30
thing

32:31
if you're gonna get a business off the

32:33
ground especially if you're walking away

32:35
from a job

32:37
you need

32:39
you need to be a little stubborn you

32:41
need to be a little cocksure you need to

32:43
really believe in what you're doing you

32:46
do it because a lot of people are going

32:47
to tell you you're nuts and ask you most

32:50
will most

32:51
will people most people do not have the

32:54
stomach for this and it could come from

32:56
your spouse it could come from your

32:57
mother it could come from your

32:59
accountant uh you know it'll come from

33:01
all sorts of directions because you know

33:04
everybody knows the percentage of people

33:06
who

33:06
who succeed in this is less than 50

33:08
percent i mean you know most are not

33:11
going to succeed it's higher i'm sure

33:13
it's higher than that my father

33:15
never wanted me to be an entrepreneur

33:17
which is the contrarian in me so well

33:19
why wouldn't i if that's the case if

33:20
that's what you don't want then that's

33:22
what i want um you know he uh

33:25
he just didn't understand it that's

33:27
that's not where he came from which is

33:29
actually he did come from that because

33:31
his father

33:32
and my mom's father to make it back in

33:34
the depression era they both started

33:36
retail stores on the side as they worked

33:39
in the in the textile mills in the south

33:41
but they were entrepreneurs enough

33:42
because they had to

33:44
to make money

33:46
um i think there's an entrepreneurial

33:48
streak in everybody i think that

33:51
there is a fear factor

33:53
um that that prohibits a lot of people

33:56
from doing it but i think the biggest

33:57
thing for most people not taking a risk

33:59
or not doing something is unfortunately

34:02
they are influenced by what they

34:04
perceive people will think

34:07
about what they're doing and i i've

34:09
always told people don't listen

34:12
you know don't don't care what anyone

34:14
thinks if you're passionate about it

34:16
then go do it i think that's also

34:19
lends itself can i challenge you on that

34:20
a little bit please do

34:23
i think you want to listen

34:26
but then do what you decide to do so who

34:29
are you listening to you listen to

34:31
everybody whose opinion you respect and

34:34
you're going to get lots of

34:34
contradictory advice that's a tough one

34:36
for me well i don't say when i say

34:39
listen i don't mean follow their advice

34:41
i understand but listen hear what they

34:44
have to say because even somebody who's

34:45
telling you not to do it might have a

34:47
piece of information that fits into the

34:49
puzzle and helps you figure it out um

34:53
i

34:54
i agree with that passion is a dangerous

34:56
thing too because

34:57
it is

34:58
most of those people who go out of

34:59
business were passionate as well you

35:01
know passionate is essential but it's

35:03
not sufficient it's not enough to get

35:06
you there so

35:08
you know it's it's a really complicated

35:09
thing but again you're so right about

35:11
all of this especially the bravado thing

35:13
because

35:14
you need some of that bravado but

35:16
everybody hits a wall at some point

35:19
where they've reached the limits of

35:22
their own expertise and knowledge and

35:24
suddenly

35:26
having ignored everything that everybody

35:28
was telling them they got to start

35:30
listening they get to a point where

35:31
they've taken the business as far as

35:32
they can on their own sure they've got

35:34
to hear from other people who know how

35:36
to take it further and at that point

35:38
that bravado can become a real problem a

35:40
real flaw as you totally agree and i i

35:43
ran into that just for the listeners and

35:45
viewers that are getting a lot more stay

35:47
in the annuity many information they've

35:49
ever dreamt of

35:50
but a couple years ago i decided to to

35:53
hire

35:54
a person to be ceo and director of

35:56
operations and and remove myself from

35:58
the day-to-day because i had taken it to

36:00
that point and also understanding where

36:02
your talents lie

36:03
and um it was it's been a great

36:06
and profitable decision but for all

36:09
entrepreneurs that's that's very

36:10
difficult it's also difficult for people

36:12
that are in the investment world that

36:14
are do-it-yourselfers

36:15
to go to an expert

36:17
and listen to that expert whether it's

36:19
me and the annuity side or somewhere

36:21
else

36:23
for help i think that's

36:25
i think if um

36:26
you're correct whether you're an

36:28
entrepreneur in business whether you're

36:29
an entrepreneur that's retired now

36:31
managing their money or or

36:33
or volunteering

36:35
you still have to seek out expert advice

36:37
whether you take that or not

36:39
is up to you but i do think that um

36:42
as i said before the older i get the

36:43
less the less i realize that i know and

36:46
i think that as a positive because

36:47
you're always seeking

36:49
for information and i would think that

36:50
if there's any way to track it

36:52
entrepreneurs that aren't successful

36:55
aren't open to change and aren't open to

36:57
pivoting

36:59
even though it might mean changing the

37:01
name or changing the direction or

37:03
changing

37:04
what they're doing

37:06
because stan the annuity man was not

37:07
initially called

37:09
stan the annuity man it was called

37:11
something else until the clients told me

37:13
to call it that and we hired a pr firm

37:16
and did uh focus groups and i listened

37:18
to that you listen to your clients and i

37:20
did and um and that's that's been a good

37:23
thing

37:24
going forward um but i think this is

37:26
fascinating for my listeners because

37:28
there's a lot that are are retired but

37:31
they're they always say well i'm busy

37:32
than i've ever been i mean i'm retired

37:34
but i'm busy um

37:36
that's the entrepreneur in you that's

37:38
whether you're starting a business

37:40
doesn't matter but you're you're busy

37:42
getting your life together and maybe

37:44
chapter two

37:46
of entrepreneurism is managing your life

37:48
and managing chapter two and managing

37:51
your family and managing travel and

37:53
managing that that to-do list and that

37:55
bucket list that i'm telling people to

37:57
to bring out because as lauren to love

37:59
the same i tell my clients all the time

38:02
there's no u-hauls behind hearses

38:06
and if you see one take a picture and

38:07
send it to me but there's not

38:09
you can't take it with you and if and if

38:11
covet has done one thing for all of us

38:13
out here if you all could figure that

38:15
out you know

38:17
that would be so good for their business

38:19
yeah if you well there's no u-hauls

38:21
behind herself but that would be cool

38:23
but you know you can't take it with you

38:25
um and covet has told us that the

38:27
fragility of life is real

38:29
and um

38:31
in the this kind of coincides with

38:33
entrepreneurism in my opinion

38:36
entrepreneurs always say they call

38:38
people call me with ideas all the time

38:39
like we'll just you know take a shot at

38:41
it you know take a shot at and see what

38:43
happens it's kind of the same thing in

38:46
retirement for people that are in

38:48
retirement the entrepreneurial

38:50
flavor of the decision is take the shot

38:53
travel take the shot spend the money

38:55
take the shot by the lamborghini take

38:57
the shot

38:59
and there's some entrepreneurial flair

39:00
on both because both feel

39:03
um

39:04
it feels it feels out of character for

39:06
most people to do those type of things

39:08
whether start a business or travel like

39:11
they've never traveled before

39:13
do you think there's a correlation there

39:15
i i do i i would add one word to what

39:17
you're saying i think the best

39:19
entrepreneurs take an educated shot and

39:22
that's really important you know when

39:23
you're talking about the the failure

39:25
rate for businesses it's so high

39:28
but it's lower for people

39:30
who go about it the right way so if if

39:34
you've been you know the number two at a

39:37
company for 10 years and really come to

39:40
understand an industry and then you go

39:42
off to do it on your own

39:45
you're not going to have the same

39:46
failure rate as somebody who is just out

39:49
of school and says hey you know i want

39:51
to go into whatever industry it's it's a

39:54
very different thing both things can

39:56
work but but if you're taking an

39:58
educated risk and you've really take the

40:00
time to figure out what needs to be

40:03
figured out

40:05
that makes a huge difference and i think

40:06
that applies to all the examples you

40:07
gave including travel

40:10
if you if you're smart about the

40:11
approach you take you're going to end up

40:13
being being glad you invested the money

40:15
in whatever you did if you

40:17
you know

40:18
just wing it you may not be um

40:21
it's you know

40:23
taking that time i think is important i

40:24
think i think we've come up with a i

40:26
just it just hit me when you were

40:28
talking lauren and i'm giving i'm giving

40:30
you this this is yours

40:31
you can be an entrepreneur in business

40:33
and you can be an entrepreneur in life

40:36
an entrepreneur in business we all know

40:37
kind of know what that is but an

40:39
entrepreneur in life which is a lot of

40:40
the people that the bose baby boomers

40:42
entrepreneur in life is taken as as

40:44
lauren said educated

40:46
um

40:47
decisions

40:48
and what that you might perceive as risk

40:50
because it's out of your comfort zone

40:52
but but once again

40:55
doing things that instinctively feels

40:58
right

40:59
but you might have never ever planned on

41:02
on doing

41:03
another question that hit me was you can

41:05
comment on that maybe maybe maybe you

41:07
have an idea entrepreneur entrepreneur

41:09
or life is there such a thing and i just

41:11
make something up out of midair

41:13
i think you're right on target i think

41:16
it's all about an approach to life not

41:19
just uh business and

41:21
but we're all entrepreneurs everybody on

41:23
here is entrepreneur what they've got to

41:25
figure out is am i an entrepreneur in

41:27
business or an entrepreneur in life

41:29
right

41:30
i absolutely you know taking a job can

41:33
you you could be taking a job working

41:35
for somebody else and still be

41:36
entrepreneurial absolutely and there's

41:39
still risk involved you can go to a

41:41
company that you know maybe that company

41:43
is going to succeed maybe it's not maybe

41:45
you have to pick up and move across the

41:47
country there are all sorts of aspects

41:49
to it that can make it an

41:51
entrepreneurial opportunity and it it

41:53
has to do with your entire approach to

41:56
life i think you're you know right on

41:58
target there you go i mean i i my

42:00
clients i'm going to start using it you

42:02
need to be a life entrepreneur you need

42:04
to you need to look at life like a

42:06
business and go live it and that doesn't

42:08
mean implement implement the plan the

42:11
educated plan that's been put in place

42:13
and that some people will hear in that

42:15
that you're telling them to take more

42:17
risks and that's not necessarily what

42:19
you're telling me you're not you're

42:20
certainly not encouraging anybody to be

42:21
reckless you're encouraging them to

42:23
think about the risk that they choose to

42:26
take um and i think that's being or the

42:28
decisions they choose to make

42:31
um which

42:33
you know i i think that that's a

42:35
powerful message for people that are

42:38
entering chapter two of their lives and

42:39
saying you know what am i you know what

42:41
am i doing who am i you know what what's

42:43
my my life's been defined up to this

42:45
point what's the definition now

42:47
and i think that

42:48
if you embrace that i i just had um a

42:51
couple of clients that that decided to

42:54
move to panama that was that was what

42:56
they're going to do it's a it's a lower

42:58
cost of living and they're going to do

42:59
that and i said well that's kind of an

43:01
entrepreneurial thought right

43:03
they've been thinking about it they've

43:04
been thinking about it they've been

43:05
planning they've been researching they

43:07
put together the plan and now they're

43:09
implementing the plan there is no

43:10
difference between that decision

43:13
to go to panama and the decision to open

43:16
the widget factory down the street i i

43:19
agree completely and to use your

43:21
terminology what you don't want to do is

43:23
you don't want to go straight from

43:24
chapter 2 to chapter 11.

43:27
no you want to measure your risk and i

43:30
bet those people going to panama didn't

43:32
just throw a dart in a map

43:34
took him three years i talked to him i

43:36
said how long you've been planning this

43:37
i've been planning for three years yes

43:39
you know and and with you i was so happy

43:41
for you coming on because i'm thinking

43:43
man this just reeks

43:45
wrong wrong word but reeks of

43:46
entrepreneurism reeks

43:48
of taking that leap reeks of jumping off

43:51
that proverbial

43:53
cliff as they say

43:55
another question i have for you um

43:57
i'm fascinated to understand

44:00
the current trends with with male female

44:04
races

44:05
you know

44:06
what's the what are you seeing

44:09
in

44:10
in the entrepreneurial world as you're

44:12
covering it and talking from the

44:14
standpoint of just gender and race

44:17
and if there are any different trends

44:18
than what we've been seeing what we've

44:20
seen in the past

44:22
oh that's

44:24
that's a really interesting question

44:26
um

44:27
you know i think

44:29
i think things are moving in the right

44:32
direction they've moved way too slowly

44:37
and i think we sometimes get caught up

44:40
having the wrong

44:42
focus and the wrong conversations so

44:45
i'll give you an example of what i mean

44:46
by that there's an awful lot of talk but

44:48
one way we measure

44:50
how women and minorities are doing in

44:53
entrepreneurship is by looking at how

44:55
much uh funding they get out of silicon

44:57
valley or other venture capitals such a

45:00
myopic view

45:02
but you obviously understand exactly

45:04
where i'm going with this not everybody

45:06
does but you i i know you get it

45:08
here's my thing i i'm not a big fan of

45:10
venture capital i think it i i know it

45:13
destroys more businesses than it creates

45:16
now

45:17
there's some businesses that need it

45:18
there's no other way that they're going

45:20
to get to be you know what they got to

45:22
be without it and that's fine the

45:24
problem is that the business model for a

45:26
venture capitalist is to throw 10

45:28
businesses against the wall and hope

45:30
that one sticks and the other nine uh

45:32
lose out and the shame is

45:34
that some of those other nine could have

45:36
been terrific businesses if they hadn't

45:38
been told to go for broke and do

45:41
everything they could to make sure that

45:42
the venture capitalists got the return

45:44
they needed right because if all they

45:45
did was double their money that would be

45:47
a you know an abject failure uh so that

45:51
we can't let that happen

45:52
so here's the thing all the focus on how

45:55
much of that money is going to women and

45:56
minorities i sit there and look at that

45:58
and i think well

46:00
surely women and minorities have the

46:03
same right to destroy their business

46:05
with venture capital as everyone else i

46:08
don't want them to have that opportunity

46:11
you know taken away for them or not

46:13
extended to them but they're better ways

46:15
to build a business and there are better

46:17
ways to look at whether entrepreneurship

46:20
entrepreneurship is succeeding uh for

46:22
women and and for minorities so

46:25
i think a lot has changed in the last

46:26
couple of years there was a lot of

46:28
movement especially after the george

46:30
floyd episode a lot of big companies

46:32
started rethinking who they were hiring

46:35
where they were putting their money

46:37
here

46:38
here's a much better example than

46:39
venture capital where do businesses

46:41
spend their money not invest it where do

46:43
they spend it are they looking to you

46:46
know is there a woman owned or a

46:48
minority owned business that they can

46:50
buy whatever they need from to for their

46:53
own business that supporting somebody

46:55
who's already in business and paying

46:57
those bills on time that that's a way

47:00
that people you know at big companies

47:02
can support smaller businesses and

47:05
smaller entrepreneurs i think in the

47:07
last decade the purest form of

47:09
entrepreneurism that i've witnessed

47:12
and supported

47:14
you're going to probably laugh because

47:15
it's so simplistic

47:17
are food trucks

47:19
i truly believe that is that is about as

47:22
raw

47:23
and ground floor

47:24
of entrepreneurism as i've ever seen and

47:27
i love it because you don't have to

47:30
build the sticks and bricks

47:32
you you have to find a truck

47:35
you have to be able to cook

47:37
and it's it's entrepreneurship 101. it's

47:39
101

47:40
and it's beautiful um and i just i've

47:44
seen that happen in every place that i

47:46
go

47:47
uh and i travel a lot that

47:49
and i i just think that's that's a great

47:52
example of

47:53
no education needed

47:55
no barriers

47:57
nobody's looking whether you're white or

47:59
black or

48:00
or male or female they're just looking

48:03
for good food okay and i think that's um

48:06
uh

48:07
that is a situation that

48:09
should be an example

48:11
for people i know that annuity agents

48:14
and people in the financial business

48:16
these are

48:17
entrepreneurs because most are just paid

48:20
on commissions or

48:23
or what they earn and otherwise they

48:25
make zero

48:26
you know

48:27
and i've been

48:28
in the financial services business since

48:30
i got out of college in 1988 and there

48:32
were months you made zero and then you

48:34
know my wife bless her heart she's still

48:36
with me but that's pure entrepreneurism

48:39
as well

48:40
um but i think the the main reason

48:42
people choose to be an entrepreneur in

48:45
the business side we've we've defined it

48:47
now in two versions there's business

48:49
entrepreneurs and there's life

48:50
entrepreneurs

48:51
um the business entrepreneurs are doing

48:53
it because they they want to run their

48:54
own show and not answer anybody and have

48:56
no no ceiling on what they earn

48:59
okay

49:00
but the life entrepreneurs now that

49:02
we're talking about that these are

49:04
people that don't they don't want to

49:06
answer anyone anyway either they want to

49:08
consult with their spouse or partner to

49:10
make the decisions going forward on

49:12
chapter two of their life and they're

49:13
gonna plan just like they're planning in

49:15
business

49:16
you know i would encourage everybody on

49:18
this podcast to start you know put

49:20
yourself into

49:22
one of those two categories business

49:24
entrepreneur whether you're working for

49:26
someone because lauren just pointed out

49:28
very astutely that you could be an

49:30
entrepreneur work for somebody you can

49:33
and those by the way those are the best

49:34
companies work for that allow you to

49:35
have that type of creative freedom

49:38
and then you know you're going to be in

49:40
the second phase of entrepreneurism

49:42
which is a life entrepreneur which is

49:44
managing chapter two of your life

49:46
whatever that means to you and however

49:48
you define it

49:50
so i think the topic today is

49:53
it covers everybody

49:55
and it you know the title might be life

49:57
entrepreneur or business entrepreneur

49:59
which which one are you

50:01
uh by the way you can be both or you can

50:03
be just one it's your call actually the

50:05
one for people you know you're going to

50:07
be one of the two you're going to be a

50:09
life entrepreneur eventually

50:11
that's gonna that's going to happen

50:13
so

50:14
i think i think this is fantastic the

50:16
whole life of entrepreneur stuff now in

50:18
closing what would you tell people the

50:20
listeners that you know they're ranging

50:22
anywhere from in their 40s to in their

50:24
80s lauren which is a big range of

50:27
people

50:29
what would you give them on the way out

50:31
as kind of nuggets that you would want

50:33
them to take away from this

50:36
um

50:37
well depending where they are on that

50:39
age range and what their uh experiences

50:42
have been

50:44
if if they've taken the time to listen

50:46
to this conversation and they're still

50:48
with us they're with us baby they don't

50:50
leave uh then

50:52
then they have something to give they're

50:55
there's they have expertise they have

50:59
capital

51:00
they have a dream they've got something

51:04
and

51:05
i think um you know again depending on

51:08
that age range although you know that

51:10
has changed through the years i mean you

51:12
don't have to be 40 to start a business

51:13
anymore um people are starting their

51:15
business businesses in their 70s and and

51:18
i love that obviously they don't have

51:19
the same dreams of somebody in their 20s

51:21
but but it can be done and you know

51:23
people are it you're less likely to do

51:26
it for financial reasons but you might

51:28
do it for the passion and that's a

51:30
that's a beautiful thing

51:32
if if you're if your interests lie

51:34
towards actually starting a business i

51:36
think what you said about the food truck

51:38
is is everything i think you know any if

51:42
you take

51:43
an idea to any smart entrepreneur the

51:45
first thing they're going to ask you is

51:47
well

51:47
have you know i know aunt sally has

51:50
great spaghetti sauce but hash has she

51:52
tried to sell it yet uh you know you got

51:55
to test it you got to find out if people

51:58
are real and that's true if it's food

52:00
but it's also true in just about

52:02
anything else that you can sell so your

52:05
food truck analogy is right on target

52:08
find a way to test your theory before

52:10
you sure you know go too far down the

52:12
road

52:13
if you're not looking to start a

52:15
business

52:16
you have some area of expertise where

52:18
you could help and

52:19
there's there's a way to find somewhere

52:22
someone who needs that expertise and i

52:25
really encourage people to to try to do

52:27
that it's been harder the last couple of

52:29
years with the pandemic but there's

52:31
still ways to do it you can you know

52:33
depending on where your interests and

52:34
expertise lies you can find somebody who

52:38
is looking for exactly what you have to

52:40
offer and it's great when that

52:42
connection gets made

52:43
ladies and gentlemen that that genius

52:46
you heard right there is

52:47
laurenfeldman21hats.com21hats.com

52:51
i would encourage you to go there and

52:52
listen to his podcast give it give it a

52:54
give it a listen i think you're going to

52:56
like what he's doing in the direction

52:58
he's going

52:59
and hopefully we can have him back on

53:01
the program

53:02
um now that we've created a new category

53:05
of life entrepreneur and he's gonna you

53:07
know by this time in six months he's

53:09
going to have something written about it

53:10
but uh lauren i really appreciate you

53:12
being on the program and i appreciate

53:14
every single person listening on all

53:17
podcast platforms and watching us

53:18
interact on the fun with annuities

53:20
youtube channel my name is stan the

53:22
annuity man i am america's annuity agent

53:24
and we will see you

53:26
next week

53:32
thanks for listening to fun with

53:33
annuities please hit the subscribe

53:35
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53:38
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53:39
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54:06
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54:09
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54:12
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54:25
[Music]