075 John Lenz: Live, Die...or Quit

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welcome to fun with annuities with your

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host me stan the annuity man america's

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annuity agent can annuities be fun can

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contractual guarantees be fun

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absolutely they can find out the brutal

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facts about annuities with no sales

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pitches or high pressure nonsense just

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the brutal and factual annuity truth

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which is all you need to hear

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let's have some fun with annuities and

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let's have that fun start right now

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[Music]

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welcome to fun with annuities the number

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one annuity podcast on the planet i'm

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your host stan the annuity man america's

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annuity agent licensed in all 50 states

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and i want to welcome everyone that's

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watching this

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on the fun with annuities youtube

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channel and also listening to this on

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all major podcast platforms

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and where fun with annuities our slogan

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here is living the reality not the dream

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and once again

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we have a

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superstar guest his second appearance on

1:09
fun with annuities because the first one

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everyone's like bring the annuity

1:12
mechanic back bring the annuity mechanic

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back

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who's the annuity mechanic if you want

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to ask that it's his name is john

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lennon's and um the only way that i can

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describe john appropriately i was

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thinking about this is if there was such

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a thing as an annuity room let's just

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say the room was called the annuity room

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and john walked into it

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regardless of who is in that room he

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he's the smartest person in the room

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period um

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so i'm really glad that he joined uh

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joined us on this podcast because both

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of us as i have actually lost friends

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recently to covet we're both kind of in

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this really kind of funk but i told him

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i said let's let's soldier through this

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um just because

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people need to know the truth about

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annuities people need to know about

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what's going on so with that being said

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in that really weird intro john lenns

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welcome back to fun with annuities

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hey hey thanks dan yeah if i walk into a

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room and start talking about annuities

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i've learned how i can drink alone in

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the corner

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you know there's so much fun so boring

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but uh that's i appreciate the kind

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words and glad to be back absolutely so

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so what you're telling the young um

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people out there if there are young

2:27
people out there consider yourself young

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and you're single don't bring up

2:30
annuities if you're trying to pick

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somebody up is that what you're saying

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yeah

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i've never had a pickup line with work

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with annuities

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that's fantastic let's jump right in the

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state of washington now you're in the

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beautiful

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um city of portland oregon i am looking

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at my back window at downtown it is

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beautiful um but the state of washington

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and the politicians there and they're

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they're so smart john we we all know

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that explain what's going on in

2:57
washington and the long-term care rules

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because my phone is blowing up

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yeah well mine too

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it's just been the craziest couple of

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months in my 41 years in this business

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so the state of washington washington

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votes blue

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and their legislature i think in you

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know a well-intended move

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created a tax a payroll tax

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which uh was charged against w-2 wages

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so self-employed people were not

3:28
involved federal employees were exempt

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and so it's a 0.58 payroll tax to fund

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a long-term care benefit for washington

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residents

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so if you work in the state of

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washington you're subject to this

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payroll tax so 0.58 percent would mean

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580

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per 100 000

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of w-2 income so it's not a huge tax but

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washington

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uh state residents are used to having no

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income tax you know we've got a sales

4:00
tax and property tax and vehicle

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registration tax and it's not like

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there's no taxes up here in washington

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where i personally live even though i'm

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working in portland across the river

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it's like florida florida has no state

4:10
tax but guess what

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they get their share yeah yeah we have

4:14
an estate tax uh anyway bottom line was

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uh the legislature passed this act uh

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and the benefit was 100 there is uh

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100 per day

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to a maximum of 36

4:29
500

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for

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uh

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long-term care expenses that can be at

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home or in a in a facility

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i think the last time we talked a little

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bit about

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medicaid and medicaid pays the majority

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of long-term care and home health care

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expenses not medicare but medicaid and

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the only reason medicaid pays it is

4:52
because you've run out of money yourself

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so the state of washington first state

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in the country

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i designed this this piece of

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legislation governor signed it and

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everybody's going to have a payroll tax

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uh pretty quick unless

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you have your own long-term care policy

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in place by november 1st and that's

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where the weirdness starts

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well it's certainly part of the

5:16
weirdness yeah because

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they have it if correct me if i'm wrong

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but they haven't been very specific on

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what that means so does that mean

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traditional long-term care is a health

5:27
insurance product does that mean

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confinement care riders attached to a

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life insurance product like an income

5:32
rider with an index annuity what does

5:34
that mean for the consumer yeah it means

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both of those things so the state of

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washington okay

5:40
rcw

5:42
48 something said this is what a

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long-term care policy does provides

5:47
benefits for

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people who need it and they define it

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and but what they in the legislation

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they did not say how much you needed

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so they didn't say you had to have a

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policy the same size as the washington

6:00
benefit or more even though some law

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firms have opined that that's what they

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would recommend that's what i personally

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recommend and what i personally did for

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myself being a washington resident

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i purchased a long-term care policy and

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i purchased the latter of the type you

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just described

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i purchased a life insurance policy with

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a long-term care writer which means if i

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die and don't need long-term care my

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family gets a death benefit

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if i need long-term care i can take that

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death benefit

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and parcel it out

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as i need it over a four-year period

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so the policies work much more than the

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washington plan and then it has the

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added benefit it's i can get all my

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money back someday if i want it so it

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was sort of a no-brainer uh for me to do

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that and

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when washington uh announced this and as

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the day started getting closer

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that everyone had to have this policy in

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place by november 1st

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uh word got out and and uh finance

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insurance agents and financial advisors

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started telling their clients about it

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and literally hundreds and hundreds of

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thousands of people decided they wanted

7:04
long-term care insurance

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i said i think hell has just frozen over

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i've had so many people calling me up

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saying i want to buy life insurance am i

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are you kidding me

7:14
people never call me up and say i want

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to buy life insurance uh or want to buy

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an annuity with long-term care features

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i'm assuming

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that there's a lot of

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shenanigans from a sales standpoint

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going on

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um

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and appropriateness and suitability is

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what scares me a little bit because some

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of the calls i'm getting from the state

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of washington are from 30 year olds and

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22 year olds and people like

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we have

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and of course if you think about it if

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this tax gets uh stays in place the 18

7:50
year old is going to be paying it longer

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than the 30 year old of the 40 or the 60

7:53
year old

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so

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there is certainly

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uh somebody that understands the way

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money works and mechanics of life

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insurance long-term care and taxes ought

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to be talking to people about this

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because

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if you have a relatively you know an

8:08
average income your tax is going to be

8:10
less than 500 a year and to buy a

8:12
long-term care insurance policy that

8:14
would provide a solution is going to

8:16
cost more than that but where the

8:18
craziness came off was the insurance

8:20
industry got so many applications they

8:23
couldn't process them

8:24
with one company that came out and said

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we have more business in the last three

8:28
days from the state of washington than

8:30
we received in the past three months

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from all states including washington and

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it just ground the company to a halt

8:38
they literally couldn't process

8:40
um there's a company that has

8:42
13 000 applications that have been

8:44
submitted in a month then and probably

8:46
about 10 of them have a policy number

8:49
it's just never going to get issued by

8:51
the end of the uh no end of the period

8:54
so there's now an initiative petition to

8:57
postpone this but

8:59
the legislature's out they aren't coming

9:01
back until after january 1st this law is

9:03
going to go into effect and there's

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going to be a payroll tax unless you get

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an exemption

9:08
which kind of leads us to a point one of

9:10
the few well there's a dozen companies

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providing these solutions long-term care

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life with long-term care

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and they just one at a time dropped out

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of the business i mean right now if

9:20
you're an insurance agent selling

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long-term care insurance in the state of

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washington and that's how you make your

9:25
living you're basically out of business

9:28
all the major carriers just stop doing

9:30
that even the big mutual companies like

9:32
northwestern mutual

9:33
this falls under the category of

9:36
political writing a check with your

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mouth that your rear end can't cash

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unbelievable

9:44
crap show

9:45
the subset is unintended consequences no

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one knew

9:49
that this many people would want to

9:51
exempt themselves i think the

9:52
legislation or the legislators thought

9:55
that washington citizens would love

9:57
having this long-term care insurance

9:58
policy

9:59
and everybody wants to opt out that's

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been my experience so can an annuity

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work in this situation and the answer is

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yes so there's a one carrier that we're

10:10
working with that highly rated company

10:13
that you can basically establish your

10:15
own reserve so instead of paying a tax

10:18
every year you can write a 35 000 check

10:21
to the insurance company

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create a long-term care annuity which

10:25
means if you need long-term care

10:27
insurance they'll pay you not only your

10:29
35 000 dollars back but either two or

10:32
three times that amount in long-term

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care benefits depending on your health

10:38
and uh

10:39
that'll exempt you from the tax under

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the current law

10:42
so we're still seeing solutions uh for

10:44
that i apologize that people are here in

10:47
some form of an echo you know what this

10:49
is technology john and we're doing the

10:51
best we can even with our screaming

10:53
internet so i'm here in just a little

10:55
bit you're hearing that we apologized

10:57
i'm in florida john's in portland oregon

11:00
and we're digging into this this is um

11:04
this is an interesting

11:06
moment in time and maybe

11:08
a glimpse into the future if if other

11:10
states follow suit

11:12
and and do something similar to what

11:15
washington the politicians there didn't

11:17
really think it through too much and

11:18
whoever consulted they didn't hire you

11:21
to consult because you would have said

11:22
it ain't going to happen

11:24
the dam's going to break on the policies

11:26
and they don't administratively have the

11:28
people in place to process

11:30
that many um

11:31
if they would have come to you early

11:33
what would you have told them other than

11:35
they're crazy

11:38
oh i don't know

11:39
hey they wouldn't have come to me and

11:41
there was something you should have

11:42
you're the annuity architect john but i

11:44
honestly

11:45
i don't think anybody guessed just how

11:47
many people would find this tax so

11:49
objectionable and how many people would

11:52
want to opt out by buying insurance that

11:54
actually cost more than the tax but you

11:56
know there's a lot of high earners in

11:58
the state of washington uh you know big

12:01
companies like amazon

12:03
and microsoft and many many others have

12:06
got large employee population in

12:08
washington that make good income and

12:09
they don't want to pay this tax

12:12
so anyway that's uh it's been a crazy

12:14
crazy time here and there still are a

12:16
few solutions unfortunately there is

12:18
underwriting process on this and if it's

12:20
not done you know within the next couple

12:22
of weeks

12:23
then this probably is not going to work

12:25
because the policy is just not going to

12:27
get approved by november 1st and that's

12:28
the deadline there's a very good friend

12:31
of mine and his name is jack lindenberg

12:33
he's he's arguably one of the top

12:35
long-term care experts in the country

12:37
and he's been on the podcast and he

12:39
called me the other day said he's not

12:41
even dealing with washington people

12:43
anymore just because during this time

12:45
period

12:46
just because he can't get them done in

12:47
time

12:48
right um and and that's coming from a

12:51
person

12:52
that specializes in long-term care and

12:54
his background is he's a lawyer as well

12:56
but he only does long-term care and for

12:58
him to say that is unbelievable and it

13:00
tells me how much of a nightmare

13:03
um it truly is at this point in time so

13:05
um interesting and and what what john

13:07
was talking about was asset based

13:11
long-term care solutions and what that

13:12
means in english to people from the

13:14
south where i'm from is that you don't

13:16
lose your money one of the biggest

13:18
misconceptions about long-term care

13:20
is that you give them the money to give

13:22
them money to give them the money and

13:23
then if you die money goes poof that is

13:25
traditional long-term care but that

13:27
represents such a tiny tiny fraction of

13:29
what's being sold out there right now

13:31
and not many carriers even do that most

13:34
of the long-term care solutions are

13:36
asset based meaning that

13:38
somebody in your family is going to get

13:40
the money whatever is left over of what

13:42
you initially put in even though you're

13:44
transferring the risk to the carrier for

13:47
long-term care did i put that succinctly

13:49
john yeah you did we

13:51
call it live die quit which is one of

13:54
the three options everybody has right if

13:56
you live

13:57
and need long-term care services your

14:00
policy is going to benefit if you die

14:03
without needing long-term care services

14:05
like you

14:06
then you're going to your family will

14:08
get a death benefit and if you say

14:10
someday i quit and don't want to do this

14:13
then you're going to get your money back

14:15
or some percentage of it or some

14:17
multiple of it depending on the type of

14:19
policy you buy

14:20
but yeah it's a very popular idea and

14:22
there's still

14:23
a couple of those solutions left in

14:25
washington as well but the minimum

14:28
premiums are around fifty thousand

14:30
dollars up front

14:32
that may sound like a ridiculous

14:34
solution to a point

14:36
five eight percent tax but it's not i'll

14:38
give you a reason why in my case i live

14:41
in washington

14:42
uh i'm not a real high earner but

14:46
uh

14:46
i don't want to pay this tax either so i

14:49
took sixty thousand dollars moved it

14:51
into one of these long-term care annuity

14:54
excuse me life insurance chassis plans

14:57
and

14:58
if i die my wife will get the death

15:00
benefit if i need long-term care

15:02
it'll be paid for

15:04
and if i quit i will get my money back

15:06
now what's the cost of that well that

15:08
money was in cash in a money market

15:10
account earning 0.3 percent right 0.3 of

15:14
60 000

15:15
is 180 a year in lost earnings

15:19
that makes sense so we have quite a few

15:21
people who are applying for that and

15:23
basically creating their own reserves so

15:25
you can do that with a life insurance

15:26
chassis or an annuity probably through

15:30
you know the 25th 26th 27th of september

15:33
john the other thing i wanted to mention

15:35
just when you said live die and quit

15:37
obviously me and you

15:38
are multi-talented and we could um me on

15:41
guitar and you singing we could actually

15:43
come out with an album called

15:46
live die quit

15:47
and i think it would go i mean it could

15:49
be phenomenal so hey let's move on i

15:51
mean i mean obviously my mind always

15:53
goes to music because i have that in the

15:55
background and there's some

15:56
um you know i i love the music but live

15:59
diane quick could be a great a great

16:01
album um i want to be the drummer that's

16:03
all i can do

16:05
you got it you got the drum you could be

16:07
called a styx lens

16:09
uh which which would be perfect hey

16:11
let's move on to like the current

16:13
i'm always asking you these questions

16:15
because you have your i mean you you

16:17
have your

16:18
ear to the ground on annuity industry

16:20
stuff current struggles are obviously

16:23
interest rates any other current

16:24
struggles that the consumer needs to be

16:26
aware of when it comes to

16:29
annuities and life insurance that the

16:31
carriers are having right now other than

16:33
hiring

16:35
you know

16:36
hiring is a really an issue

16:39
oh i'll tell you

16:41
the uh one of the big companies that has

16:43
just received a huge amount of these

16:44
applications

16:46
um went out to the market and tried to

16:48
hire four new case managers that could

16:51
review these applications and get them

16:53
in front of an underwriter

16:55
they uh they interviewed four people and

16:57
and made four offers for come to work on

17:00
monday for the training

17:01
one person showed up and they got quit

17:04
in three days

17:06
there's there's just people just don't

17:08
want to work right now it's the craziest

17:09
thing i've ever seen uh if you make more

17:11
money sitting at home i mean obviously

17:13
they're not thinking long term from a

17:14
career standpoint but

17:16
you know the the government has painted

17:18
themselves into

17:20
you know this

17:21
this corner and the and the washington

17:24
state rule is is another version of

17:26
cradle to grave coverage

17:28
that they're trying to do

17:30
um good intentions

17:32
um the the progressive side of all of us

17:35
says and yes everyone has a heart

17:38
all you conservatives out there that

17:39
yeah you know we do want to take care of

17:41
people that do need to be taken care of

17:43
yeah um but

17:45
once you do cradle to grave for everyone

17:47
it's going to get

17:49
you know things aren't going to work the

17:51
way that they predicted so in addition

17:53
the interest rates are is it just

17:54
interest rates and hiring is those the

17:56
two main things for carriers right now

17:58
yeah interest rates are just so far

18:01
below what insurance companies predicted

18:04
and they have sold life insurance

18:06
policies for a hundred years and the

18:08
numerators are more now obviously

18:10
something you sold 100 years ago is

18:11
probably not in force today

18:13
but when interest rates were higher

18:15
and they they've almost always been

18:17
higher insurance companies thought they

18:19
were going to get x on their portfolio

18:21
say five six seven percent right and

18:23
today they're investing new money you

18:25
know between two and three percent

18:27
because they've got to invest their

18:28
money in safe

18:30
debt instruments that they can

18:33
when they when they need to right yeah

18:35
so they're having a difficult time uh

18:38
making money now i'm sure your heart

18:41
bleeds like mine does and those poor big

18:43
insurance companies need to make money

18:45
but at the end of the day you do want

18:47
your insurance company to be profitable

18:49
and be around when you need to get paid

18:51
and have your claim

18:52
so yeah i'd say those are the two

18:54
biggest challenges uh there's new

18:55
regulatory challenges coming on in the

18:57
insurance industry which you know again

19:00
i do welcome that i i think our business

19:03
every business got bad actors yeah i

19:06
knew you would there's a new regulation

19:08
of best interest standards

19:10
where

19:11
more disclosure from insurance agents

19:13
that are selling annuities

19:15
and life insurance

19:17
but annuities in particular where you're

19:19
dealing with compensation disclosure

19:21
absolutely making sure that any

19:23
recommendation is in the best interest

19:25
of the client especially if you're doing

19:26
an annuity switch from one company to

19:28
another which is something we talked

19:30
about was

19:31
why do

19:32
annuities they get in and you buy an

19:34
annuity for five or ten years then all

19:36
of a sudden your agent's telling you you

19:38
should transfer that annuity

19:40
to another company five or ten years

19:42
later right and

19:44
so

19:45
you want to spend a minute on that

19:47
absolutely and for the viewers john is

19:49
is doing he's not a member of the group

19:52
devo and he's not doing the robot

19:55
he's just uh we're we're seeing him do a

19:58
little choppiness on the video for you

19:59
guys listening on

20:01
on the podcast everything's cool so you

20:03
know it's uh it's the magic but magic of

20:06
internet so tell yeah let's d let's dig

20:08
into that john

20:10
so one of your clients calls you and

20:12
says stan i'm getting you know 0.1

20:15
in my cd at the bank and i heard you're

20:17
the man about down and can get me the

20:20
best interest rate on the annuity and

20:22
you find a quality company that has

20:23
let's say two and a half percent

20:25
five-year guaranteed rate that's

20:26
available today

20:28
five years later

20:30
your client purchases the annuity they

20:32
get a guaranteed two and a half percent

20:33
interest rate for five years and then

20:35
the company comes back and says we want

20:37
to renew you at one percent

20:41
and regardless of where interest rates

20:42
are

20:43
and what happens is in today's world

20:45
that's what's happening now

20:47
the insurance companies defense interest

20:49
rates are really low

20:51
and they're required to keep that money

20:52
in a position where if the customer asks

20:55
for all of it back right now they could

20:57
give it all back

20:58
so they also have to invest the money

21:01
in the short term uh instrument that has

21:03
a low interest rate but even

21:05
historically companies at renewal time

21:07
have often renewed the interest rate

21:09
below market rates and so an insurance

21:12
agent

21:13
and their client want to get the most

21:15
they can get on their money and so

21:16
they're constantly after five or seven

21:18
or ten years

21:20
there's an opportunity to get a better

21:22
interest rate somewhere else

21:24
and that that same thing can be said for

21:25
indexed annuities that have caps on

21:27
participation rates

21:29
at the end of that surrender charge

21:31
period where the money no longer is has

21:33
got some hooks at the insurance company

21:35
and it can leave

21:36
insurance companies uh tend to reduce

21:39
the renewal rate to the customer and so

21:42
money moves from company a to company b

21:44
and sometimes back the other direction

21:45
five years later

21:48
well and renewal rates can also apply to

21:50
index annuities the the one-year option

21:52
or the two-year option or the three-year

21:53
option

21:54
expires and then you have the renewal

21:56
rate of the cap spreads and

21:57
participation rates we see a lot of

22:00
shenanigans going on with that

22:02
how does the consumer other than dealing

22:05
with me john

22:06
or you um how did they combat that

22:09
renewal rate

22:11
um you know bait and switch type stuff

22:13
that might be out there in the indexed

22:15
annuity space

22:18
well i'm a fan of a shorter surrender

22:20
charge period i like five-year products

22:23
personally over 10-year products even

22:25
though the industry

22:27
there's a there's the vast majority of

22:29
policies are sold with a 7 and 10-year

22:32
surrender charge schedule and sometimes

22:34
those products have better interest

22:36
rates better caps better participation

22:39
rates there's a reason to do that

22:41
but if an insurance company has your

22:43
money for 10 years and they lower your

22:45
renewal rate during that period of time

22:47
and you can't leave then that can create

22:49
some anxiety so one thing

22:51
someone can do is go to a little bit of

22:53
a shorter uh surrender charge uh

22:56
schedule a five year seven year over a

22:58
ten or longer

23:00
most of the uh

23:01
annuities that are sold in the

23:03
broker-dealer environment can't go

23:06
longer than ten years but i've seen

23:07
surrender charge periods as long as 15

23:09
years right you can also go with a

23:11
company that has

23:13
a promise to renew

23:15
the interest rate at the initial rate or

23:18
at a rate you know slightly below called

23:20
a bailout rate so yeah there's ways to

23:22
protect yourself against an insurance

23:24
company that wants to renew you

23:27
at a lower rate than you anticipated

23:30
question just hit me um we get a lot of

23:32
calls and we're not going to name the

23:34
carrier because it changes year to year

23:35
but

23:36
a lot of times you see companies that

23:38
issued an annuity with an income rider

23:40
which is a attached benefit for lifetime

23:42
income a living benefit yeah and they're

23:45
trying to buy that back for a premium

23:48
john so people are always calling in and

23:51
saying hey stan the annuity man

23:53
america's annuity agent what should i do

23:54
which is the best way to do this should

23:56
i take the buyout or is the benefits so

23:59
good and rich should i stay there

24:02
and keep the benefit i know there's no

24:04
good answers in life john just bad sales

24:06
pitches but give me the annuity

24:08
architect's version of this

24:10
well i'd say for sure

24:12
that it's every case is a little

24:14
different now

24:16
real easy to understand example right

24:18
out of the gate is that if i have an an

24:21
annuity that has an income writer on it

24:23
and the company's trying to buy it back

24:26
it means that they mispriced it

24:28
it means it's too beneficial for me so

24:30
immediately my little radar goes right

24:32
up you the consumer you're speaking as

24:34
the consumer as a consumer oh i've got

24:37
something the insurance company wants to

24:38
buy back at a at a premium that i'd get

24:41
the benefit of right this must be good

24:43
so i'd evaluate it and most of the

24:46
things they want to buy back are living

24:48
benefit riders that promise to pay a

24:50
certain percentage of the annuity value

24:54
for the lifetime of the annuity owner or

24:56
the annuitant

24:58
and so

24:59
i might make a decision that would be

25:01
different than yours if i've got heart

25:02
disease and i think i'm only going to

25:04
live 10 more years then uh having an

25:07
income rider that goes to age 100 is a

25:10
really little benefit to me so i might

25:11
take the insurance company up on that

25:13
offer

25:14
you may live a very long time and super

25:17
healthy and so that in same writer might

25:20
be beneficial for you to keep so if

25:23
somebody who's watching this gets a

25:24
letter from one of the half a dozen

25:26
insurance companies that are buying

25:28
these writers right you should reach out

25:30
to stan evaluate it exactly i work for

25:32
stan i'm in the background doing the

25:34
math on stuff like that but yeah there

25:37
if an insurance company wants it back um

25:40
there's a reason and they're paying a

25:41
premium

25:42
yes they are i've seen as much 15

25:45
account value increases if you will just

25:48
leave

25:49
well and here's here's what you don't do

25:51
in

25:52
99 of the cases

25:54
this is called agent blood in the water

25:57
shark chum

25:59
and you'll you'll see you'll see agents

26:02
just almost do a pavlov's dog

26:04
saliva test when they hear this because

26:07
they can transfer they can transfer we

26:09
can transfer we can make another

26:10
commission no

26:12
um it has to be in your favor to

26:16
transfer it to another annuity and when

26:18
i meet when i say that and john's

26:20
nodding his head

26:22
for all you listeners on the podcast it

26:24
has to mathematically be in your favor

26:26
the benefit from where you're coming

26:28
from to where you're going to the going

26:29
to has to be better mathematically

26:32
and in the majority of these cases

26:33
there's no way to do that because income

26:35
writer benefits and and that monopoly

26:38
money does

26:40
not

26:40
transfer

26:42
okay exactly right and part of this new

26:45
suitability uh regulation is that if you

26:48
do indeed get one of those letters and

26:49
want to transfer it to another company

26:52
the form

26:53
from the other company is going to say

26:55
what benefits are you leaving behind

26:57
there's there's a process that's sort of

27:00
baked into this to help make sure that

27:02
everything's in the customer's best

27:03
interest

27:04
the only way

27:06
and unfortunately i've seen this three

27:07
or four times recently because people

27:09
send me their stuff

27:11
i've seen agents

27:13
not fill out the application properly

27:15
because if they do there's no way for

27:17
that thing to transfer in most cases so

27:19
just be very careful out there ask for a

27:22
copy of the application always

27:24
um typically it's included but always

27:27
review that to see if it's accurate

27:29
uh when it's being filled out and i'm

27:30
just and listen there's bad actors in

27:32
every a new every industry

27:34
um annuity industry is no different but

27:36
the majority of people out there are

27:38
doing it the right way just be careful

27:40
um

27:42
you know never ever transfer for an

27:43
upfront bonus you know it's it's it's

27:45
bigger than that and there's no

27:47
philanthropist at annuity companies i

27:49
john i call upfront bonuses candy for

27:51
the stupid um they do work in some cases

27:54
but uh you know people that nudge

27:57
themselves at the bad steak dinner or

27:58
the good steak dinner seminar and say

28:00
well marge they're giving us 25

28:03
up front bonus that's not where you make

28:06
the decision that's like going to the

28:07
car dealership john and buying the car

28:09
for the stereo system

28:14
think banks and savings and loans

28:16
started that when you used to get a free

28:18
toaster with deposit exactly insurance

28:20
companies just ramped it up let's just

28:22
give them monopoly money instead

28:25
yeah there's uh

28:26
generally if an insurance company gives

28:28
you something up front they figure out

28:30
how to amortize that and take it away uh

28:33
in arrears but um like you said uh there

28:36
are times where bonuses can make sense

28:39
uh depending on if that's payable at

28:41
death then you're not healthy there's a

28:42
way or if you want to start income right

28:45
away instead of defer it so yeah there's

28:47
there's some times

28:49
yeah there's always that asterisk moment

28:51
it's just that it isn't free money

28:53
i know people walk uh walk into your

28:55
office they don't walk into mine because

28:56
they have to call but

28:59
they always ask this question can we

29:00
retire yet stan the annuity man john

29:03
lennon's annuity architect can we retire

29:05
yet

29:07
when people ask that open-ended question

29:09
john other than taking a sip from your

29:11
perrier what do you say

29:14
yeah it's it's that's just the opening

29:16
salvo for a lot of questions from me

29:18
sure um i think every most people want

29:21
to retire someday right uh you

29:24
you and i've talked about that uh

29:26
and yeah i've worked 41 years and every

29:28
time i hear somebody you know so-and-so

29:31
is retiring from the police force after

29:32
30 years i'm like hey man that guy's

29:34
just getting started

29:36
but you know i love i love what i do and

29:38
unlike being a police officer in

29:40
portland's you know not the hottest job

29:41
in the planet right now

29:43
but

29:44
uh yeah people come in uh they've

29:46
usually got some account statements

29:48
they've got maybe an opportunity at work

29:52
to leave early and can they

29:55
so that's where i love using annuities

29:57
to generate base level income

30:01
and then figure out how they'll invest

30:03
other assets to for growth and keeping

30:05
up with inflation

30:07
and ask the questions about what are

30:09
your expenses going to look like uh in

30:12
retirement it's the income floor john

30:16
so

30:16
uh yeah annuities play a big role in

30:19
that usually

30:20
insurance companies don't want to see

30:22
any more than 50 percent of a person's

30:24
assets in an annuity they know that

30:26
money needs to be in growth uh and

30:29
liquid assets as well

30:31
so yeah it's a very fun process and that

30:34
we we develop uh an income plan for

30:36
people that takes looks their social

30:38
security any pension income they have

30:39
i'm working on a case right now where a

30:41
woman has a rental

30:43
and the question about a rental

30:45
you're 66 years old and you want to

30:47
manage a piece of rental property that's

30:49
out of state you know

30:51
yeah so we're looking anyway a lot of

30:53
questions but annuities play a big role

30:55
in that i mean really at the end of the

30:57
day

30:58
there's a lot of similarities between an

31:00
annuity and social security absolutely i

31:03
always tell people that's the message

31:06
on the planet

31:07
and what people there's a lot of bad

31:09
information on annuities the annuity

31:10
industry has earned its bad reputation a

31:12
lot of cases but it's still the only

31:14
product that can provide a lifetime

31:15
income stream as i say there's no roi

31:17
until you die with a lifetime income

31:19
stream you're just transferring

31:21
the risk here's a here's a dumb question

31:23
of the day john coming from stan the

31:26
annuity man

31:27
does tax deferral over time make sense

31:31
yeah that's a that's a really good

31:33
question uh and i it's a math question

31:36
and demanding annuities are math right

31:38
john well annuities are not are like you

31:42
put them on a chart and they have

31:43
numbers next to them and you do the math

31:45
and the math is the eighth wonder of the

31:47
world compound interest yeah so

31:49
i can prove mathematically

31:52
that

31:53
deferring your

31:54
taxes and earning interest on the money

31:56
you would have otherwise paid

31:59
in tax until a later date makes sense

32:02
you mean like your ira john

32:04
like your ira absolutely uh

32:07
if you've got uh if you're not paying

32:09
taxes each year on the interest you earn

32:11
let's use a simple example if you're in

32:13
an indexed annuity and you hope you're

32:15
earning a four percent average return

32:17
if you don't pay any tax on that you a

32:19
hundred thousand dollar account in the

32:21
first year you earn four thousand

32:23
dollars

32:24
if you put that four thousand dollars on

32:26
your tax return then you're going to pay

32:29
pick a number 25 of it in tax so you're

32:32
left not because it's in an annuity

32:34
correct so instead of having three

32:36
thousand dollars in your account you

32:38
have four thousand got an extra thousand

32:39
earning interest so over a period of 10

32:42
15 20 years that number

32:44
absolutely creates a value thousands and

32:48
tens of thousands of dollars with the

32:50
caveat that is will you be in a higher

32:53
tax bracket in some future date most

32:56
retirees are not

32:58
most retirees don't earn more in

33:00
retirement than they did

33:02
uh during their working years

33:04
and well who knows where tax rates are

33:06
going to go we've been thinking tax

33:07
income tax rates are going to go up

33:08
forever and maybe they will but you know

33:12
under the current administration

33:13
allegedly only if you're making more

33:15
than 400 grand allegedly

33:18
[Laughter]

33:19
there's a lot of um you know as you know

33:22
john i have a large

33:25
other youtube channel called the annuity

33:27
man youtube channel and there's 400

33:29
videos and we're adding 20 a month and

33:31
our one of our most watched videos i

33:34
think it's had 50 or 60 000 views or

33:36
some an enormous amount for me

33:39
is about inheriting annuities and what

33:43
your choices are

33:44
when you inherit annuities and obviously

33:46
you know there's a bunch of baby boomers

33:48
that are

33:49
getting older and people are passing

33:51
away and they're leaving these annuities

33:53
so just a basic question not to get into

33:56
the total weeds of it but does it make

33:58
sense

34:00
for the spouse

34:02
to take the death benefit lump sum or to

34:04
take over the policy or is it customized

34:07
to each specific person

34:10
absolutely customized yeah federal law

34:13
allows a spouse

34:15
to

34:16
become the owner of the deceased spouse

34:19
ira

34:20
annuity or non-qualified non-r ira

34:24
annuity

34:25
what the question is that you raise is

34:28
if there's a death benefit feature on

34:30
that annuity does it make more sense to

34:33
collect the death benefit

34:35
and deal with the tax angles or not

34:39
and yeah that's

34:40
annuities uh are

34:42
so many different flavors and types and

34:45
writers that everyone knows has got to

34:47
be looked at

34:48
but in general what i found is since

34:51
most annuities don't have an expanded

34:53
death benefit

34:54
that spouses are well served to take

34:57
over the contract when they can

34:59
especially if it's something they bought

35:00
10 15 20 years ago that might have a

35:03
very high minimum interest rate

35:05
guarantee well we still have

35:07
hundreds of millions of dollars of

35:08
annuities on the books that are earning

35:10
three four five and even higher for the

35:13
rest of the owner's lifetime now

35:18
you can't do that

35:20
to your to a non-spouse so

35:22
if i'm single and i've got an annuity

35:23
earning five percent when i die my kids

35:26
can't become the new owner and have

35:28
eternal tax deferral right they've got

35:30
to take it out over their life

35:31
expectancy right and so it's just it's

35:34
just spouses and just to kind of clarify

35:36
on that point

35:38
the reason that you have these policies

35:39
that are being inherited by the spouse

35:42
that have these high interest rates is

35:44
when the annuity companies issued them

35:46
back in the day

35:48
um

35:48
they they put a three percent or four

35:51
percent or five percent number that was

35:53
so low back then that they thought that

35:55
that's a joke you know that's that's not

35:57
going to be worth and have any value in

36:00
the future and lo and behold here we are

36:03
where if you have a three percent or

36:05
four percent or five percent i get this

36:07
call all the time and i'm like it's

36:09
guaranteed three percent or four percent

36:10
of five they said yep i'm like well then

36:12
you're staying there yeah exactly

36:15
enjoy the money market account that you

36:17
have because it's beautiful um so

36:21
and i know that there's just so much

36:23
there's a lot of annuities being

36:25
inherited once again

36:27
this is this is uh

36:29
agent sharp chum in the water

36:31
doesn't mean you always transfer it

36:33
doesn't mean you always take the lump

36:35
sum just be very careful out there

36:37
especially for the spouses that might

36:39
have stumbled across this podcast

36:42
and have not been involved in the

36:45
um

36:46
the money management up until their

36:48
their spouse's death and now they're

36:49
trying to figure out what to do just be

36:51
very careful out there because

36:53
staying the course in in a lot of cases

36:55
that john and i found is the best course

36:58
that doesn't pay the agent but who cares

37:00
right john

37:02
yeah i'd say you're right there's there

37:04
there's a lot of annuities that were

37:06
issued many many years ago that is

37:09
definitely in your interest to hold on

37:11
to

37:12
i mean there are insurance companies now

37:13
that are

37:14
exercising maturity clauses in their

37:16
contract and asking people to leave when

37:19
they hit that maturity date rather than

37:21
just automatically renew it because

37:24
the interest rate if you're if a

37:26
company's paying you four percent on a

37:28
fully liquid annuity they cannot go out

37:30
and buy an asset with that money and

37:33
make a profit i mean they're literally

37:35
losing money on that business and so

37:37
companies have programs

37:39
asking people to take a payment stream

37:41
or transfer their money to a different

37:43
annuity even within the company or

37:45
another company i think the correlation

37:47
there i'm going back to my morgan

37:48
stanley days um

37:50
it's like getting your bond called

37:54
that's the version of the annuity

37:55
company calling in

37:57
the annuity um

37:59
so yeah and by the way at the time of

38:01
this taping we're right in right before

38:02
the the 9 11 uh i know that we released

38:06
these later by the time john and i are

38:08
on on this podcast 911's a couple days

38:11
away and uh it's it's a tough time for

38:13
all of us i know i don't know if you

38:14
know this john but i worked in world

38:16
trade to

38:17
the south tower for a little bit with

38:19
dean witter which then became morgan

38:21
stanley and was actually supposed to be

38:24
in the tower that day and

38:27
and was not for a myriad of reasons

38:30
but every time i see that it just

38:33
you know it makes you it makes you

38:35
reflect and i hope that the 911 makes us

38:37
reflect patriotically and as a country

38:39
and let's all come together but also too

38:42
in combination with covid and that's

38:44
affected john and i as well with friends

38:46
who's recently passed away

38:48
to plan a little bit more and a little

38:50
bit more proactively

38:52
and annuities and this isn't some sales

38:54
pitch this is just reality annuities in

38:56
life insurance can help you plan for

39:00
your eventual demise and taking care of

39:02
your families and taking care of you as

39:04
a lifetime uh benefit now but also

39:07
setting things up

39:09
in the future are you seeing trends with

39:12
the coveted monster that keeps rearing

39:14
its ugly head have you seen more and

39:16
more people kind of getting a as i say

39:19
in the south a b in their bonnet to to

39:21
get some things done

39:23
yeah absolutely it's one of the few

39:26
silver linings of cobid

39:28
uh

39:29
i mean

39:31
for me

39:32
kobed has i learned that you're supposed

39:34
to sing happy birthday twice when you

39:36
wash your hands with hot soapy water i

39:38
mean think about how many people

39:41
how many people do you know that had a

39:42
cold last year or the flu i mean we just

39:45
didn't get sick last year because we

39:47
stayed apart from each other uh you know

39:52
i look back on john every time i got the

39:54
flu in the past yeah it came from a

39:57
plane flight right

39:59
the aluminum death tube full of germs is

40:02
true uh even though i mean i know i'm

40:04
sorry delta airlines in america and i

40:06
know you're filtering your air through

40:08
hepa filters and it's cleaner than it is

40:09
sure whatever buy that but there's a lot

40:11
of strangers walking around that we

40:13
haven't come in contact with

40:14
but

40:16
google adwords

40:17
saw a sharp increase in life insurance

40:20
inquiries uh during the cobit uh

40:24
and so it was a positive on that side

40:26
yeah on the negative side you had

40:28
insurance companies

40:30
uh

40:31
not issue insurance policies to people

40:33
over 60 that had comorbid conditions

40:35
because that's the people who are dying

40:37
primarily it seems that way yeah

40:40
you know if you need evidence that this

40:43
is not a complete conspiracy look at the

40:45
insurance industry that is not issuing

40:47
insurance on people of the age dying

40:50
from the symptoms of there's no politics

40:53
when it comes to an underwriter

40:56
understood there's just none they

40:58
they're looking at facts and in real

41:01
life

41:02
situations um

41:04
a lot of the stuff that we do and and

41:06
that you advise on and help us through

41:08
as well is what i call income later and

41:11
income later is when someone says you

41:13
know what i i don't need the income now

41:15
but i need to start three years from now

41:17
or five years from now or seven years

41:19
from now yeah and we call that income

41:21
later and typically

41:23
when they ask that and then you know

41:24
obviously we go through the whole the

41:26
whole questions with them and all that

41:28
stuff but it comes down to two types of

41:31
annuities deferred income annuities

41:33
and income riders and deferred income

41:35
annuities is what's called annuitization

41:37
and that's that's in the south just

41:39
think of the the water faucet in the

41:41
back at the back of the house and if you

41:42
rip the knob off it water's flowing

41:44
annuitization

41:46
visually is the income flowing period

41:49
so my question to you john lennon's the

41:51
annuity architect which by the way i've

41:54
i've coined that phrase for you and i'm

41:56
going to trademark it for you because

41:58
it'll be worth a lot

41:59
um in fact we already are for you john

42:01
the annuity architect which one's better

42:03
annuitization or income riders which in

42:06
essence is draw down and in the south

42:08
that means subtraction

42:11
i'm a fan of flexibility uh i remember

42:14
early on personally or with annuities

42:17
like are you are you stretching daily

42:20
what are you trying to say to me john

42:22
yeah uh financial flexibility financial

42:25
flight you say you can't put the the

42:26
right leg over the head is what you're

42:28
telling me no no i i don't i don't sit

42:31
cross-legged uh like this because then i

42:33
can't go back up

42:35
but i do like financial flexibility got

42:37
it and and so if your plan's not set uh

42:40
like mime 63 my plan's not set

42:43
and if i want to use an annuity to fund

42:45
part of my retirement what i want is

42:47
something flexible that if something in

42:49
my life changes

42:51
you know all of a sudden i've got angina

42:53
and my doctor says hey john you got

42:54
heart disease there's not much we can do

42:55
and you can live 10 years i'm not

42:57
interested in an annuity that goes to

42:58
100 right i'm going to accelerate my

43:00
payments and enjoy my life while i'm

43:02
here

43:03
or if i'd like i i love my job i want to

43:06
keep doing this and so

43:08
i want to turn my income on maybe when

43:09
i'm 66 and a half when social security

43:12
starts or

43:13
no i have health in my family i want to

43:15
wait to turn my income on until i'm 70

43:17
because i can get those eight percent

43:18
increases

43:20
for three years at my social security

43:22
benefit

43:23
or you get to 70 and you still just love

43:26
what you're doing and so you want to

43:27
push your income out even further

43:30
so yeah i like flexibility and so an

43:33
annuity with an income writer

43:35
that

43:36
increases in its payout every year for

43:38
10 years or longer

43:40
without a required starting date it

43:43
would be my preference over what you

43:45
said earlier the dia where you say i

43:48
want my income and i'm 66 and you've

43:50
only got a five year range to massage

43:52
that yeah and the dias can be set up to

43:55
where you can't change the start date

43:57
one time depending on the structure and

43:58
you can change the income rider start

44:00
date as well

44:01
um but what we do is you know we're

44:03
quoting for the highest contractual

44:04
guarantee currently at the time of this

44:06
taping look at the date please

44:08
when we do a comparison income writer

44:10
dia quote apples to apples the income

44:12
writer quotes are winning contractually

44:15
highest guaranteed number and i always

44:17
tell people

44:19
deferred income annuities and and income

44:21
riders are both lifetime income

44:23
guarantees they just take two different

44:25
contractual paths to get to that

44:28
contractual guarantee

44:29
they're just structured differently but

44:31
at the end of the day it's still a

44:33
transfer of risk that you're

44:34
transferring

44:36
to the annuity company to pay you for as

44:38
long as you're breathing and the primary

44:40
pricing mechanism is life expectancy i.e

44:42
mortality credits

44:44
a lot of people um

44:46
think interest rates drive the train

44:48
john let's talk about that when people

44:50
say to you

44:52
hey john lin's uh america's annuity

44:55
architect

44:56
i heard you on the thing with america's

44:58
annuity agent the podcast

45:00
um

45:01
i lost my train of thought that was such

45:03
a good that was such a good thing no and

45:05
they and they talk about um you know

45:08
income riders in in increases and things

45:11
like that

45:12
how do you explain

45:14
some of these annuities that increase

45:16
with the index without you know it

45:19
sounds too good to be true i always say

45:20
that they significantly lower the

45:22
payment when you put want to put a cola

45:24
or cost of living adjustment writer

45:26
how do you explain that to people and

45:28
the value

45:30
again i am a math nerd i love

45:33
spreadsheets and so for me i i okay and

45:36
i know that math doesn't generally help

45:38
people make decisions retirement

45:40
decisions are often emotional but you

45:42
need an underlying basis to make in my

45:45
world an underwriting math decision so

45:48
i'll take a hundred thousand dollars and

45:50
put it on a spreadsheet and say if you

45:52
take this money now you're going to get

45:54
500 a month

45:56
if you wait one year you're going to get

45:58
540 dollars a month and you wait two

46:00
years at 600 and then at 650 and 700. so

46:04
people ask why wouldn't you just keep

46:06
waiting well the obvious answer is if

46:09
you don't take it now you don't get

46:10
those payments

46:12
so the math says what have i given up

46:16
versus what do i get if i wait and

46:19
that's a very interesting uh discussion

46:21
with people

46:22
and then since you're only dealing with

46:24
you know a certain part of a person's

46:26
assets then you've got to ask yourself

46:27
how will i invest those other assets

46:30
and what if they go up faster than

46:31
anticipated for what if there's a market

46:34
correction and those assets go down

46:36
that's where you want your flexibility

46:38
in your annuity because the last thing

46:40
you want to do is take money out of a

46:42
falling market

46:43
you want to take that money out of your

46:45
annuity not out of the stock market

46:47
account and i always tell people this

46:49
when they say well where should i take

46:50
the money from from lifetime income

46:52
they'll show me their assets and they'll

46:54
have one or two annuities i'll say the

46:56
annuity you have to go there first

46:58
that's the transfer of risk um that

47:01
needs to be you know in place uh with

47:04
all of this um

47:06
what what's the outlook in your opinion

47:09
for annuity consumers

47:11
going forward um

47:14
in the next couple of years because

47:15
obviously i don't i personally don't

47:17
think interest rates are going to rise

47:18
and if they do they're not going to rise

47:19
a lot and i hope i'm wrong

47:22
but let's just say i'm right what's the

47:24
outlook for annuity consumers

47:27
i'd say if annuities

47:28
don't move one direction or the other

47:31
very much then you're going to see

47:33
the five to seven year fixed market for

47:36
annuities in that two to high twos range

47:39
and some companies are less than that

47:41
but the competitive carriers are able to

47:43
say we'll give you a two two and a half

47:46
two seven five year seven year rate

47:49
but the industry is trying to innovate

47:51
and those the innovations right now are

47:54
in the index annuity space where

47:56
investment banks and insurance companies

47:58
are creating their own

48:01
uh

48:03
it's a high it's a weird proprietary

48:06
it's starting to hurt already john i

48:08
mean

48:09
yeah uh they are complicated and hard

48:11
for everybody to understand that's what

48:13
the consumer can expect i'm not saying

48:15
that's necessarily what they'll buy

48:18
but most of the policies are sold i

48:20
think are based on the standard and

48:22
poor's 500 index easy to understand if

48:24
the

48:25
index goes up you make five percent if

48:27
it goes down you make zero or one right

48:30
i like that proposition and i think

48:32
we'll see we'll continue to see that

48:36
and that's good i i just hope that the

48:38
sales message gets cleaned up a little

48:39
bit it always you know with volatility

48:42
if there's ever

48:44
um a really nice little market hiccup

48:46
you're going to be eating really good

48:48
steak for a long long time at these bad

48:50
steak dinner i keep saying bad chicken

48:53
dinner but good steak dinner bad chicken

48:55
dinner seminars that are selling uh

48:58
these indexed annuities and just for the

48:59
record we love index annuities we

49:01
primarily use them as as a delivery

49:03
system for the income rider guarantee

49:06
and you can go to the annuityman.com and

49:08
run quotes on spea's diaz and culax and

49:10
income riders and indexed annuities and

49:12
see a live mica feed 24 7 365 without

49:15
talking to yours truly

49:17
so i mean we we want the consumer to be

49:19
engaged and to be informed and that's

49:21
the reason john

49:23
so graciously joins us occasionally when

49:25
i can find time for him to fit us in

49:28
so that he can just kind of talk about

49:31
where the annuities industry is and what

49:33
people should be looking out for what uh

49:35
kind of in closing what are the the

49:38
primary questions and concerns you're

49:40
hearing not only from the agents you

49:42
interact with and consult for

49:44
but also the consumers that

49:46
are so

49:48
lucky to reach you one on one what are

49:50
you hearing

49:51
everything across the board uh i work

49:54
with people who think that the stock

49:56
market has reached an all-time high and

49:59
that it can only go down under the

50:01
current political regime

50:03
uh others think that the sky's the limit

50:05
and there will always be a a greater

50:07
fool to buy their shares at a higher

50:09
price i don't mean that in a negative

50:12
way it's that greater fool theory when

50:13
the stock's overpriced right somebody

50:15
somebody ought to pay more for it

50:17
someday

50:18
but i think that uh the the sincere

50:20
message i hear is that i would like to

50:23
know that i'm going to have enough

50:25
income to live comfortably during my

50:26
retirement

50:28
and a liquid basket a bucket of money

50:31
that i can access when life happens

50:33
uh health changes new roof new car

50:37
parts of a new car all those things you

50:39
know it just happens are people asking

50:41
you about crypto annuities because i get

50:43
that question all the time

50:46
i'm trying to understand crypto myself

50:48
and at this point

50:50
at this point i i have enough crypto

50:52
that if one of my kids gets kidnapped

50:54
right

50:55
i probably shouldn't maybe edit that out

50:56
i don't have anything yeah let's edit

50:57
that out he doesn't have to pay for my

50:59
kids kidnapping now i i

51:02
have crypto for the same reason most

51:03
people do which is a fomo right fear of

51:05
missing out

51:07
yeah but i don't understand how the

51:09
dollar works either it's not backed by

51:11
anything other than the military the

51:13
national parks you know do you think

51:15
eventually someone's going to take a

51:17
leap and some carrier is going to take a

51:19
leap and try to do something with it

51:20
i'd bet against that in the near term

51:23
really yeah i i don't think an insurance

51:26
company is going to uh base an annuity

51:30
on cryptocurrency until it has the full

51:32
endorsement of the united states

51:33
government which i would also bet on

51:35
hell freezing over before that happens

51:37
as well you would but you know and i

51:39
know we've been around for too long

51:42
um

51:43
that some

51:44
eager young fresh executive has walked

51:46
into that boardroom and said have you

51:48
guys ever thought about it and then they

51:50
throw the stapler at him

51:52
we should think about trademarking some

51:54
kind of a annuity name said

51:56
bit master 10. how's that

52:01
holy crap i mean there's there's a

52:03
carrier that just is listening to this

52:05
and they just ran down the hall to the

52:06
ip department uh and let's get that

52:09
let's get that trademarked right away

52:11
but no i cryptocurrency is fascinating i

52:13
think it's too volatile

52:15
to be at this point i agree but what you

52:18
could do

52:20
since there are now etfs that track

52:21
cryptocurrency

52:23
then in theory an insurance company

52:26
could

52:27
index

52:28
to

52:29
uh

52:30
the return of the bitcoin etf do you

52:32
know how many they would sell of that

52:36
you know i think most people

52:37
unbelievable

52:39
i think most people that are doing

52:40
crypto are younger uh

52:43
in general

52:44
and they're the people who are not

52:46
really buying it but that's the sales

52:47
pitch john listen kryptos for the young

52:50
people for are you baby boomers here's

52:52
my bad chicken dinner seminar pits john

52:54
when i sell my soul

52:55
hey um we have a crypto uh indexed

52:58
annuity that you're never going to lose

53:00
money and we get to share in the upside

53:02
how much of that do you think i could

53:03
sell with that sales pitch john

53:05
well once

53:06
since this is now in the public domain

53:08
forever somebody someday can look back

53:10
at this and go

53:11
john liz did not know what he was

53:13
talking about

53:17
is obviously sees the future right i

53:20
mean that's what they're going to say

53:21
right

53:22
i don't know man

53:24
listen

53:25
i i know you're not going to believe

53:26
this but but uh we've been talking for a

53:29
while and this has been fantastic as

53:32
usual

53:33
you cannot hide john lennon's the

53:35
annuity architect i am going to chase

53:37
you down

53:38
and i'm gonna make you come on this

53:40
podcast because people love it i mean

53:42
the numbers of people that email me and

53:44
say when's john lennon's coming back on

53:47
i'm like okay i'll get it and i know

53:49
john's really happy because at the time

53:51
of this taping i am i do have a planned

53:53
trip to portland oregon

53:55
which he's a he's alerted antifa he's

53:58
alerted everybody that i'm coming he's

54:00
alerted the mayor

54:02
but i will be flying into portland to

54:04
see john lynn's

54:07
face to face and give him the hug that

54:08
he deserves because he certainly helps

54:10
us

54:10
he is a

54:12
treasurer in the annuity industry he

54:14
doesn't believe that but trust me when i

54:16
say that

54:17
and i really appreciate you being on

54:18
john any last thoughts for the people

54:20
listening and viewing you now are not

54:23
doing the robot which is kind of cool so

54:25
anything any anything to close this

54:27
thing out

54:28
nope thank you i enjoy doing this uh

54:31
stan you're like the joe rogan of

54:32
annuity podcast so uh

54:34
you know i'm i'm i'm a lot taller than

54:36
him you know he's he's vertically

54:38
challenged as we know and i'm not

54:40
i'm six six but uh hey with that being

54:42
said i want to just thank everyone for

54:44
joining

54:45
me and john lenz the annuity architect

54:48
for fun with annuities and i will see

54:50
you

54:51
next

54:52
week

54:57
thanks for listening to fun with

54:59
annuities please hit the subscribe

55:01
button and make sure to go to my site at

55:03
the

55:04
annuityman.com where you can run your

55:06
own spea dia and q lat quotes and see a

55:09
live feed of the best mega fix rates in

55:12
the country and even get indexed and

55:14
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55:16
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55:19
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55:21
for free and under no obligation i also

55:24
encourage you to schedule a one-on-one

55:26
call with me stan the annuity man so we

55:29
can have a full discussion of your

55:31
specific situation it will be the best

55:34
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55:37
will ever get and that's one guarantee

55:39
you should definitely take advantage of

55:41
so join me next time for the number one

55:43
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55:47
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55:51
[Music]

56:02
you