073 Chuck Jaffe: Money Life and Your Life

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welcome to fun with annuities with your

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host me stan the annuity man america's

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annuity agent can annuities be fun can

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contractual guarantees be fun

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absolutely they can find out the brutal

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facts about annuities with no sales

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pitches or high pressure nonsense just

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the brutal and factual annuity truth

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which is all you need to hear

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let's have some fun with annuities and

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let's have that fun start right now

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[Music]

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welcome to fun with annuities i'm your

0:41
host stan the annuity man america's

0:43
annuity agent license in all 50 states

0:45
the fund with annuities podcast is on

0:47
all major platforms we also have a

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youtube channel called fun with

0:50
annuities if you want to see me and the

0:52
guest interacting and our facial

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expressions and just how darn attractive

0:56
we are

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that would be great now as you know what

0:59
fun with annuities are saying is living

1:01
the reality not the dream so the people

1:03
that i bring on

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are straight shooters i mean they are

1:07
pros and this isn't some sales pitch

1:09
nonsense this is

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informative let me introduce our guest i

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i synopsize his bio because otherwise

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we'd be here for half the show so

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his name is chuck jaffe he is the host

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of money life you can find him at

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moneylifeshow.com and once again we'll

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have his information on my site

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permanently so you can access him and

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listen to his podcast his his show is

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one of the best in the country in my

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opinion

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um you know he's a veteran financial

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journalist and he's nationally

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syndicated

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syndicated as a financial columnist he

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started money life actually in 2012 and

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has done you sit down for this one

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roughly a thousand interviews per year

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on his show ever since that's a lot he

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spent um 14 years as a columnist at

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market watch this is where i kind of

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found him i was doing some some work for

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market watch as well and and he spent

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nearly a decade as the personal finance

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and mutual funds columnist at the boston

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globe you've already obviously heard of

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that um the original money life show was

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hosted on wbix am 1060 in boston if you

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know if you've been in boston you've

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heard of that and that started in the

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early 2000s he's prolific writer he's

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authored three books

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one was called getting started and and

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finding a financial advisor

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um the other one the right way to hire

2:24
financial help and then chuck jaffe's

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lifetime guide to mutual funds he could

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write more but he's too busy but he

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knows a lot he's forgotten more than

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most people ever know he writes

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regularly for the wall street journal

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for other business publications you're

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probably familiar with his name chuck

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jaffe when i said it you probably

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slapped your head and went oh yeah i

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know that guy um he now here's his

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passion though he writes a column for

2:46
state of the game which is a new england

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lacrosse journal um

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publication he's lacrosse freak he plays

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he referees he's he's actually one coach

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of the year honors for his innovations

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pretty interesting stuff he he resides

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near boston he has um you know his main

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cohort and partner is an olba energetic

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golden retriever and like i said you can

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follow him

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on moneylifeshow.com

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welcome to fun with annuities the

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infamous chuck jaffee

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stan way too much time spent on my bio

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let's let's go this is uh you know we

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can have fun with annuities that's

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that's the best part is that before you

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ever had a show

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i i've you know had my time of having

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fun with annuities as part of that past

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so absolutely one of the greatest things

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i've ever read in my life

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was chuck had a column on marketwatch

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for a long time and it was titled

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stupid investment of the week

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it was like

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asked for financial p for financial

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people making financial decisions um way

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ahead of his time i mean seriously um

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give us some background on how that all

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came about chuck and what um

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kind of maybe your top two or three

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stupid investments of the week of all

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time

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well

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you know the the basics of it were

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you at some point have to try to protect

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people

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and

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we weren't trying to find the stupidest

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investment of the week right the worst

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investment of the week because the worst

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investment of the week would be hey what

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lost the most money this week that's

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obviously the worst investment we were

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trying to do that what we were trying to

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do was basically say what is being

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pushed on people that is maybe less than

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ideal for average investors that was our

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key phrase it's the stupid investment of

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the week highlights investments that are

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less than ideal for average investors

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and it's not an automatic sell signal

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because there are times and annuities

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are certainly one of them right yes

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absolutely you have somebody who's in a

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bad annuity you go hey that's a terrible

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annuity but it's not get out of it right

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now it's right here's where you're you

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are

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and you know maybe you're better off

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there than where we got to take you to

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get you out of there so

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we

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put it together in a way that that we

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were looking for things that were

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classically bad and i mean you know like

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the all-time

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greats like some of the stupid

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investments of the week that just

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because i could go back and do them

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again tomorrow things like um

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the the gerber life insurance the gerber

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uh life insurance plan yeah that tv

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commercial that's all late at night when

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i'm flipping channels that's correct and

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of course it appeals to parents but

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you know when you talk about insurance

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separate from annuities right you're

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trying to to cover what you can't afford

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to lose well from a

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financial perspective your child is

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priceless

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but from an earnings perspective your

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baby's not making any money unless by

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the way it's the gerber baby that job

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has already been filled that's the baby

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who's trying to sell you something right

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and and there's your problem so

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so you know that is just a classic it

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comes back generation after generation

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the vast majority of those policies are

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are taken out of service you know people

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pay premiums and then they let them

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lapse and they make money without

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basically having to pay off anybody and

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their college savings plan is bad and

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you know look

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this is one of those cases where you

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somehow think i couldn't self-insure

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right but if you said wait i want a

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small amount of insurance and you just

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started setting that money aside instead

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of paying it to gerber

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you'd have a nice nest egg at some point

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you know for your kid if it doesn't have

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the gerber picture chuck yeah it also

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doesn't have death involved right you

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get the money

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even if your kid you know say lives and

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and that's part of it is that that you

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know stupid investment of the weeks

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we're going after that i mean if i were

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doing the column today

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it's clear that you'd have a lot of mean

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stocks in there and you'd have some

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other things where you know people are

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buying on illusory stuff but i can tell

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you that one of the very first stupid

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investments of the week that we wrote

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intentionally to kind of show hey we

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could flex our muscle

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was we were writing about indexed

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annuities there was a

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an idex product

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i want to say

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and um

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and i think i said at the time that

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people need this the way a moose needs a

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hat rack it's just

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like

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you know you you could

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justify it somehow yeah but you couldn't

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really justify it and and quite honestly

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pretty much any time i was like i wonder

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what i'm gonna do this week

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well if you had said hey like

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here's somebody hosting a uh free steak

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dinner and selling whatever i could

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pretty much guarantee that if i went to

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that it would be a stupid investment of

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the week and it would be an annuity

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product now would it be medium rare on

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the steak what would you order

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uh it would depend on where i was going

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i've been to more of those dinners than

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probably anyone you know who wasn't on

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the presentation side no my mom no i

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have to interject here

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my mom 83 years old saint augustine

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florida is what i deem a professional

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plate licker she is a absolute pro she

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gets the invitation in the mail she

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calls them up asks them what's on the

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menu and then literally because she's

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from the south she goes what's for

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dessert she makes her decision on

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dessert and then she blows them up at

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the end and she goes well my son is

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named stanley you knew any man and then

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you know

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that just kind of ruins the whole thing

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but yeah pretty much you know she eats

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three times a week okay well

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so maybe she's been to more than me but

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but she's you know going exclusively for

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the dinner i actually am paying

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attention to the presentation yes

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and but you know what's funny about that

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is she will come back and say

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and i'm using my mom's voice this isn't

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my voice she's like the stan is sounding

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really good and she's the upfront bonus

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and free long-term care you know me and

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your father really wanted i mean she

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goes through the whole thing i'm like

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mom it's not true it's all it's all

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garbage and i know that you've been to

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some of those batching dinner seminars

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and full disclaimer on indexed annuities

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these are cd products they're not market

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products they sell them we sell them

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primarily as a as a delivery system for

9:00
income riders which is a future pension

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plan but we pay zero attention to the

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accumulation value only because

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they're all designed kind of create that

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two to four percent return no one really

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talks about that and the other thing is

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if you buy a 10-year index annuity

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you're really buying a one-year

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guarantee on a 10-year chassis

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because the annuity company can change

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the rules on how that beloved indexed

9:23
annuity can be can be changed and i'll

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and chuck and i laugh about this but i

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always say listen if there was true

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market upside with no downside then

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chuck and i would fly or drive to dc

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meet with the fed and then you know all

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the problems would be solved right

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exactly

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yeah it's but but the thing is stan and

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this is one of the things that really

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gets me is that

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you and i know like if we're put feet to

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the fire say something good about

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indexed annuities we'd go okay i can

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come up with a good thing to say sure if

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you're using it properly right as a

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replacement for a cd or something that's

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over on that side of your portfolio but

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not for a replacement for stocks no and

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i've never once heard it pitched as hey

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look

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you know yes it's got a tie to the

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market but your results are going to be

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cd like results this is you know put

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this in where you don't love what's

10:20
happening with your fixed income and by

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the way

10:22
you could make a hell of a case for that

10:24
right now when you think about right the

10:26
talk of interest rates going up and do i

10:28
want to own bonds bonds pay next to

10:30
nothing but oh by the way if interest

10:32
rates go up bond prices fall your bond

10:34
funds are going to get hammered

10:37
you might want to have i i could see a

10:40
case it's not a case that would end up

10:42
in my portfolio but i could see a case

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where somebody could say and be well

10:46
served by going okay here i'll take that

10:49
index annuity product and use it instead

10:51
of a bond fund or instead of a cd or

10:53
instead of a bank product makes complete

10:56
sense not once have i heard it pitched

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that way it is always pitched as aren't

11:01
you afraid of what's going to happen

11:02
when the stock market goes it's a fear

11:04
thing you know that and you know chuck i

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i tell the truth about index and news

11:08
and written a book on it people can go

11:09
to my site and get my books for free

11:11
you know i'm the i'm the walking middle

11:13
finger of annuity truth out here which

11:15
is the reason i'm getting a christmas

11:16
cards from all the carriers because they

11:18
love when the agents are pitching the

11:20
dream because people love to buy the

11:22
dream and people buy annuities on fear

11:23
and greed which is unfortunate you know

11:25
we we are very proud that we're i i

11:28
think we're the only site where

11:29
annuities are actually bought not sold

11:31
because you're buying the contractual

11:32
guarantee

11:34
chuck i am dying to hear

11:36
your opinion on

11:38
the the newest tulip bulb craze if you

11:40
don't know what i'm talking about you

11:42
just google tulip bulb financial

11:45
blow up and you'll see what i'm talking

11:46
about but the newest tulip bulb craze

11:49
cryptocurrency i cannot wait to hear

11:52
what you have to say

11:54
well i mean i have there's about 12

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different layers to all of this

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um and and i've been covering

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cryptocurrency since they at the very

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beginning yeah and like and some of my

12:06
coverage led actually

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i mean not directly but indirectly led

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to the collapse of mount gox which at

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one point was the largest bitcoin

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exchange so i have a tough time removing

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myself from

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that which was not a generation ago it

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was only a few years ago it feels like a

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generation 2014 or 2012 or whatever the

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heck it was

12:27
uh moving myself from that to what we

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have now where i'm not as worried about

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the the platforms and i'm not seeing the

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goofy things but

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you know i think when you look at crypto

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i mean for starters we still haven't

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figured out is it an asset class or is

12:43
it a currency

12:44
right when you have the reason that you

12:46
don't have cryptocurrency funds although

12:48
they're getting closer to it right but

12:49
you can't you know

12:51
you can buy a physical gold fund which

12:53
is a fund that invests in gold physical

12:56
gold but you can't have a physical

12:58
bitcoin fund because there's no such

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thing as physical bitcoin

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right my favorite story about that i

13:04
wish i could find it on my desk i once

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gave a speech

13:08
and they gave one of the people there

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basically as a joke gave me a bitcoin

13:13
right it's what you see as a bitcoin it

13:15
is it is the circle with the b on it and

13:18
whatever yeah really well done it was

13:20
encased in plastic like it was a

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valuable coin

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and i came home

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and when i got home i stopped at the

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grocery store on the way and i live in a

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town with a lot of money managers and

13:30
bumped into two friends who happen to be

13:31
money managers and one of them says oh

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you know what's going oh i gave this

13:34
speech this morning and whatever i go oh

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by the way i got paid in bitcoin and i

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hold this thing up

13:40
right and it is a genuine fake bitcoin

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because if anybody holds a bitcoin in

13:45
your hand and says this is a real

13:46
bitcoin they're lying there is no

13:49
i like the words genuine and fake it's

13:51
genuine fake it's a it's a real fake

13:53
bitcoin

13:54
and the guy immediately says the first

13:56
guy who sees it goes i'll give you 20

13:59
bucks for that and the next guy goes

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i'll give you 25. and i'm like it's

14:04
worth maybe a nickel

14:06
right i should have sold i didn't

14:08
because i wanted it to have as a profit

14:10
can we manufacture that

14:12
well somebody already is i think we have

14:15
to buy it from like somebody's making

14:17
that stuff so yeah genuine fake bitcoin

14:20
there's a market for that along with the

14:22
real thing look

14:24
you right now can be paid in

14:26
cryptocurrencies that you understand

14:28
better than bitcoin right for example

14:32
if you said hey chuck

14:34
you owe me a hundred bucks and i said

14:36
hey stan would you take an amazon gift

14:38
card

14:40
you might say yes

14:41
because hey if you need it it's got a

14:43
hundred dollars worth of value

14:45
right right so an amazon gift card can

14:47
be cryptocurrency and any gift card

14:50
technically is cryptocurrency the

14:52
difference between an amazon gift card

14:54
and a bitcoin is you can actually spend

14:57
at amazon gift card you're going to have

14:59
a hell of a time finding a place that

15:00
takes bitcoin there are some

15:03
but imagine going to thelonious monkfish

15:06
a restaurant in cambridge massachusetts

15:08
let's stop for a second theolonius monk

15:10
one of the great jazz musicians of all

15:12
time very nice segue chuck well so a so

15:15
a restaurant named thelonious monkfish

15:18
beautiful

15:19
i now know where you're going the next

15:21
time you come to boston

15:22
i need the t-shirt before that double

15:24
extra large you're probably going all

15:27
right give me this give me the story you

15:28
got me i got sidetracked they took they

15:31
they i don't know if they're still doing

15:32
it but early on in bitcoin they said we

15:34
will take bitcoin as payment

15:38
and one of the first bitcoin atms if you

15:41
will was at south station

15:44
so a friend of mine a journalist friend

15:45
of mine said okay we want to see how

15:47
bitcoin works so i'm going to go to

15:48
south station

15:50
and i'm going to put 50 bucks into

15:52
bitcoin and then i'm gonna go to

15:54
felonious monkfish and pay for my lunch

15:57
with bitcoin

15:58
and by the time they paid for lunch

16:00
their 50 bucks was worth only like 32

16:02
and they had to pony up extra cash right

16:05
because

16:06
it's not and it worked that way on a

16:08
different day they might have been like

16:09
wait hold it i just gave you a hundred

16:11
dollar tip

16:12
but

16:14
that's the problem obsessed with the

16:15
illonious monk fish so i go to

16:17
theolonius monkfish do i get a

16:20
theolonius monkfish sandwich please tell

16:21
me yes i i have to tell you i have been

16:24
there i've actually been to the

16:25
restaurant i don't remember it so well

16:28
from like what did i order or what's on

16:30
the you as you can imagine though

16:32
the music you're gonna hear is jazz i'm

16:34
flying in i mean it's just it's straight

16:37
up i mean that's just that's fantastic

16:39
but the whole um cryptocurrency category

16:42
you know at the time of this taping i

16:44
read i read yesterday i believe

16:46
that somebody was hacked and there were

16:48
600 million dollars worth of crypto

16:52
absconded from a clearing house whatever

16:55
whatever the story is and i think

16:58
until

16:59
governments figure out how to clean that

17:01
nonsense up

17:03
it's going to be it's going to be a

17:04
while before people have full confidence

17:07
and do i think crypto's here to stay yes

17:09
but we've been around long enough chuck

17:11
to remember aol.com and myspace.com and

17:14
the example i was going to use goes back

17:16
further than that right that's cause

17:18
you're older than me chuck it may be but

17:21
the example that i want to use that i

17:23
use all the time

17:25
i'll just point out that when i was a

17:26
young reporter among the things that i

17:28
had to cover were technology and it was

17:30
the start of the personal computer

17:33
age right so everything that i've got

17:35
here in front of me and if you could see

17:37
my setup i got

17:38
multiple 27-inch monitors and two

17:40
screens and all this other stuff going

17:44
it was the beginning of that and i was

17:47
interviewing anne wang from wang labs

17:50
yeah who at the time was like the fourth

17:51
wealthiest guy on the forbes rich list

17:54
right and there was no question he was

17:56
going to number one and wang labs were

17:57
going to make it and by the way you

17:59
didn't want to own ibm they were going

18:01
to be dead right wanted to buy prime

18:03
computer here in boston

18:05
right and who nobody ever heard of

18:07
microsoft

18:10
right and that's the greatest your

18:12
obvious wagers back then were wang labs

18:15
and prime computers you were ahead of

18:16
the game you were the obvious winner

18:18
this is the technology that's going to

18:19
be adopted you know apple was in

18:21
bankruptcy at that point whatever else

18:23
nothing's going to make it but these

18:24
guys and of course those companies are

18:26
gone they've been gone for decades and

18:29
if you did we're lucky enough to do what

18:30
i did which is buy a couple of microsoft

18:33
shares and microsoft said hey we're

18:35
going to start paying a dividend right

18:37
well i can tell you that my problem is

18:39
that i have too much microsoft

18:42
just because it's grown so much from

18:44
that day

18:45
uh

18:46
you know it's a nice problem to have

18:47
it's a first world problem but

18:50
you know it was not going to be the

18:52
winner and

18:53
i waited until okay now you understand

18:56
what you're getting and that's what you

18:57
need to do and with crypto

19:00
i'm not convinced that it'll be bitcoin

19:03
i'm not either i you know i i think if

19:06
you

19:07
think about what's possible and you say

19:10
could we have

19:12
facebook coin

19:15
well not only could we

19:16
yeah but the potential for facebook coin

19:20
to completely dominate and just come in

19:22
and like oh wait i've got market share

19:23
i've got outreach i've got whatever i

19:26
have the channels

19:27
all of that stuff

19:29
it makes tremendous sense

19:31
one of the things that

19:32
that happens here in boston you know the

19:34
big giant financial company is fidelity

19:37
sure and

19:39
fidelity is a family-owned business it's

19:40
the johnson family and it's always been

19:42
you know who would buy fidelity who's

19:44
big enough to buy fidelity and everybody

19:47
would look and go it's gonna be

19:49
the

19:50
the you know what are the big banks or

19:52
what have you amazon uh well microsoft

19:56
is my my money i have a friend oh you

19:58
got money on microsoft and i have money

20:00
on microsoft my money's been my i and

20:03
and that's in part because

20:05
i was in seattle at one point

20:08
doing some business

20:09
took a fun manager out to dinner

20:11
and in the private room of the

20:12
restaurant we had was bill gates bill

20:14
gates dad and two incredibly high up at

20:17
fidelity kind of guys and i'm like

20:20
they're just talking about what

20:21
microsoft doesn't have which is the

20:24
financial arm

20:26
to then bring everything together so you

20:28
know if you're going to do that and

20:29
you're microsoft you could buy everybody

20:30
so my money has been that it would be

20:32
and look uh and i haven't written about

20:35
that in years but the fact that it's

20:37
time to write about that chart no i i

20:39
don't think so until you get to a point

20:40
where that's going to wind up affecting

20:42
people and i don't think the johnson

20:44
family is going anyplace ned johnson is

20:46
still alive and and it's safe for the

20:49
next generation it's the generation

20:51
after that

20:53
well you know in apple apple has a

20:55
relationship with goldman sachs you know

20:58
yeah i mean you could see it you could

20:59
see it be an apple you could see it be

21:00
being amazon there could be other

21:02
players at this sure

21:03
but if you're going to create

21:06
an operation that large why wouldn't you

21:09
have

21:10
you know why isn't

21:11
amazon especially as we more commoditize

21:14
financial services which is you know

21:16
bringing us back to annuities one of the

21:18
interesting things because as i've

21:20
always said and you've already said on

21:21
the show annuities are sold nobody wakes

21:23
up in the morning like i woke up the

21:25
other day and i said oh wait today is

21:27
the day i've gotta i've gotta

21:28
consolidate something in my portfolio

21:29
i've got

21:30
right spin off stock that i got that i'm

21:33
not going to put in enough money to make

21:34
it a regular position in my portfolio

21:37
so i want to sell it right so i woke up

21:39
in the morning thinking hey among the

21:41
things i got to do today i got to sell

21:42
that stock but nobody wakes up in the

21:43
morning and goes okay after breakfast

21:45
i'm going to go to the gym i'm going to

21:46
stop at the grocery store buy some eggs

21:48
and a little bit of milk and then i'll

21:49
buy an annuity yeah but i got to push

21:51
back just a little bit there i think

21:53
you're right i agree with you on

21:54
principle but with a demographic tidal

21:56
wave of 10 000 baby boomers hitting the

21:58
age of 65 every day they're not waking

22:00
up saying

22:02
you know what i really need to buy an

22:03
annuity but they are waking up saying

22:05
this market scares me or i need more

22:08
lifetime income because it's a

22:10
pensionless world that we live in or i

22:12
want to protect principle and if they're

22:14
saying lifetime income and protect

22:16
principle then the annuity category

22:18
which there's more than just one annuity

22:19
type does fit now i blame

22:23
in full the annuity industry for lack of

22:26
education and a consistent simplistic

22:28
message

22:29
now i'm the only one out here that just

22:31
keeps pounding the table of contractual

22:33
guarantees only transfer of risk

22:34
contractual and these are commodities

22:36
shop all carriers

22:38
i understand why the annuity industry

22:39
isn't doing that but they're doing it to

22:42
at their own demise

22:43
um

22:44
instead of 300 billion dollars worth of

22:47
annuity sold every year with the amount

22:49
of baby boomers retiring and reaching

22:51
retirement age it should be a trillion

22:53
dollar industry without question now

22:55
their stupidity has made me wealthy

22:58
because

22:59
i'm the only one out here not selling

23:00
dreams i'm selling contractual realities

23:02
but i do think more and more people are

23:04
waking up going wait a minute i need

23:06
something in addition to social security

23:08
i i agree with that there's no question

23:10
that that is is the right way to look at

23:13
it but

23:15
it still is that point of it has to be

23:17
sold you have to find a way to do it and

23:19
although you can make it much simpler

23:20
you know you now can get everything you

23:22
want on your finances basically at the

23:24
touch of a button

23:26
uh they you haven't seen it happen yet

23:29
with the annuity worldwide and as you

23:30
know

23:31
yeah actually i'm the only one out here

23:32
that has you know legitimate online

23:34
calculators and legitimate 24 7 stuff

23:36
without sales pitches but there needs to

23:38
be more than just me well and and stan

23:41
the fact is that i don't know that you

23:43
can get there until somebody can also

23:45
say wait

23:46
how could i do this myself agreed

23:49
and and

23:50
we're not there yet so let's get back to

23:51
that let's get back to that indexed

23:53
annuity thing right the right index

23:54
annuity that they're pitching

23:56
if you said hey i want to reach a

23:59
certain age

24:01
and i want to get there with a million

24:03
dollars as my nest egg or a half a

24:04
million dollars so so you're 60 years

24:06
old right now you've got whatever you've

24:08
amassed in assets you say

24:10
i need to know that i'm going to have a

24:11
million dollars when i get to be 75.

24:14
you could buy zero coupon bonds

24:17
basically to pay you nothing that mature

24:20
value so so you're going to get your

24:22
million dollars at 75 it's going to cost

24:25
you i don't know

24:26
uh 500 000 right now etc

24:30
well that guarantees that when you get

24:32
that age you got that money you could

24:34
take the rest of your money at that

24:35
point and invest it in the stock market

24:38
you will have a homemade indexed annuity

24:41
you will do dramatically better

24:43
than what the indexed annuity product

24:45
would do for you i agree with that and

24:48
you will do that even if the market

24:50
tanks for the whole time that you're

24:53
doing it and the market is down so you

24:56
can do this on your own

24:58
but nobody really talks about it and

25:00
because they don't talk about it they

25:02
don't go wait hold it

25:04
how would i make this happen what are

25:05
you actually offering me and they get

25:08
into all the other sorts of things and

25:10
then it's the salesmanish

25:12
you know

25:13
get this discount get this bonus get it

25:15
forever get this rider and i and i tell

25:18
people all the time you know upfront

25:19
bonuses is candy for the stupid um you

25:22
know if you're believing that there's a

25:23
philanthropist an annuity company you're

25:24
the rube at the table as they say in las

25:26
vegas i do think that the indexed

25:29
annuity space that product is sold

25:32
and we've done research on our site

25:33
because everything's direct you can run

25:35
quotes you can do all that stuff the

25:36
only thing the annuity just for people

25:38
out there to understand the annuity

25:40
industry

25:41
and the reason that my site's put

25:42
together the way it is is eventually

25:44
they're going to say that there's going

25:46
to be a law that says you can buy them

25:47
direct we're set up for that now if they

25:49
ever flip that switch

25:50
but at this point they're not you have

25:52
to talk to a licensed agent before that

25:54
happens and of course that's me but the

25:57
point is

25:58
it's not a direct to consumer model yet

26:01
but we're we're right there waiting on

26:02
that that time i think we're probably

26:04
five to seven years away chuck just

26:06
because of the lack of education i do

26:08
think that the the

26:10
immediate annuity deferred income

26:11
annuity qualified longevity annuity

26:13
contract my fixed rate annuities those

26:16
are primed right now for people to buy

26:18
direct if the annuity industry deemed

26:20
appropriate which should tell the

26:22
consumer all they need to know

26:24
when you can explain it to a

26:25
nine-year-old then you should probably

26:27
buy it because the indexed annuity

26:30
problem is nobody can explain it i get

26:32
calls every day well i bought this index

26:34
and i'm like well explain it to me well

26:36
i mean

26:37
they they run into the brick wall they

26:39
give me the 30 000 foot sales pitch that

26:41
they heard at the bad chicken dinner

26:42
seminar

26:44
and they talk about upfront bonuses and

26:45
all this nonsense it's

26:47
it's disgusting and this and it makes me

26:49
mad because

26:51
i think the annuity industry is is

26:52
hurting themselves with this well i will

26:55
point out that the financial world does

26:57
no favors when we try to make cases

27:01
that

27:01
you know you find out in the fine print

27:04
that things are wrong

27:05
right

27:06
if people can be scared enough in the

27:08
market i mean the interesting thing

27:10
let's go back to

27:12
2019 pre-pandemic right

27:15
the market was really sluggish

27:18
at the end of 2018 the market took

27:20
enough of a hit at the end of 2018

27:23
that a funny thing happened we started

27:26
seeing a ton of annuities you want to

27:27
know how bad it was

27:29
go back and watch ask for the super bowl

27:32
ads

27:34
there were there was at least one if not

27:36
two annuity companies that bought ads

27:39
for the super bowl

27:41
so

27:42
what happens is every time the market

27:44
gets bad those free lunch things come

27:46
out of the woodwork yep everybody's kind

27:47
of pitching all that sort of stuff so we

27:49
had all of that stuff being pitched

27:52
you go to these seminars and i can tell

27:54
you i'm the only one who ever like hey

27:56
would you put that slide back up so i

27:57
can read your fine print or i walk up

28:00
and see if they've got right

28:01
and i'm the only one who goes up to do

28:03
it and i've had people the last one of

28:05
these that i went to where i wrote about

28:06
it i was sitting there with a family and

28:08
i said look the problem is that what

28:10
they've quoted you about the stock

28:11
market and they've given you market

28:12
returns it's the stock market exclusive

28:15
of dividends correct so are you willing

28:19
to look like currently right now do you

28:22
look at the stock market and go

28:24
yeah i'm not going to count my dividends

28:27
because

28:28
you probably are now you can make the

28:30
case that like hey i'm not reinvesting

28:32
my dividends so my dividends create a

28:34
cash stream that comes out over here and

28:36
here's what my stocks are worth right

28:38
but

28:39
even as you do that you're thinking the

28:41
income stream that's not what they're

28:43
doing they're showing you you know the

28:44
market without dividends and then

28:46
they'll cherry pick their time horizons

28:48
and whatever else

28:50
people need to understand that s p 500

28:52
historically the dividends represent

28:54
more than 50 percent of the returns so

28:56
when they're talking about index

28:57
annuities point to point or whatever

28:59
they're saying that's not including

29:01
dividends more to the point they'll then

29:03
show you how the annuity performs but

29:04
they're not talking about the fact that

29:06
oh by the way

29:08
if the annuity owns the index

29:10
the company's keeping the dividends

29:12
you're not getting the dividends it's

29:14
giving you performance without the

29:16
dividends as well so you know it's not

29:19
one of these things that it's you're

29:20
getting a true picture and to me that's

29:22
the issue i mean i

29:24
believe that a whole lot of people like

29:26
right now if you think about the stock

29:28
market and where it is

29:29
and guys like jonathan clements who used

29:31
to be the wall street journal friend of

29:33
mine probably has been on your show or

29:34
should be on your show should be on my

29:36
show yeah

29:37
he has talked about how and he's a

29:39
little bit older than i am if i'm not

29:40
mistaken how he expects that sooner

29:43
rather than later he's going to be in

29:44
the market for an annuity right he's

29:46
going to be in the market for an annuity

29:49
not because he loves annuities but

29:50
because he loves investing and he goes

29:52
if i if i say here's what i know i'm

29:54
going to have is guaranteed income going

29:55
forward

29:56
i can now invest the rest of my money

29:59
and know that if the market tanks who

30:01
cares i'm protected from it i've got

30:03
this income agreed et cetera so for him

30:06
and i think for myself too i mean i'm

30:08
not quite there but i think that's where

30:10
i'm headed

30:12
it's going to be

30:13
get yourself the income

30:15
get locked down that stream and then for

30:18
somebody like me who loves investing

30:20
likes to be aggressive watching i can be

30:22
as aggressive as i want to be like the

30:24
fact that you know if i've got an

30:25
annuity when i turn 70

30:28
where a lot of people are going hey you

30:30
know you're getting 70 75 maybe you need

30:32
to step away from the higher risk i'm

30:34
going to be like baby i've been making

30:36
my money this way my entire life i'm not

30:38
stopping now and oh by the way if i'm

30:40
wrong i've got the annuity to backstop

30:42
me and you just put that income floor in

30:44
place you're now you're right it you're

30:45
right about that you put the income

30:47
floor in place always tell people you'll

30:49
be a better investor if you have the

30:50
income floor in place what is that your

30:52
pension if you're so fortunate a

30:53
lifetime income stream annuity the other

30:55
lifetime income stream annuity you

30:56
already own calls social security which

30:58
pretty much wipes out all the people

31:00
that say i hate all annuities

31:01
because they they already have social

31:03
security

31:04
i want to ask you also about

31:07
current interest rate environment

31:09
inflation

31:11
and what you and your experts that that

31:13
you have on your show

31:15
um are saying about that because no one

31:17
has the perfect answer but i mean if

31:20
anyone has their their finger on the

31:21
pulse that shoot once again it's

31:22
moneylifeshow.com

31:26
moneylifeshowalloneword.com and i'll

31:27
have that on my site

31:29
can you can you step into the interest

31:31
rate inflation world for us

31:33
yeah i mean i we talk interest rates at

31:36
inflation pretty much every day it's

31:38
almost impossible right now not to right

31:40
and there's very little question

31:43
that the vast majority of people see the

31:45
current interest rate problems as

31:47
transitory

31:48
this is not

31:50
we've got shortages that have to work

31:52
through the pipeline we've got other

31:54
issues that need to be

31:56
handled and they will be handled and

31:59
it's not necessarily that prices will go

32:02
all the way back down to where they were

32:04
but

32:05
it's not going to be

32:06
you know

32:07
if you think about inflation the way

32:09
anybody who is your age and my age might

32:11
think about it in terms of what we saw

32:12
in the 70s and 80s that's not happening

32:14
here there's not that kind of pressure

32:16
if anything i had a pretty

32:19
interesting recent conversation about

32:21
this with a guy from j.o hambro

32:24
capital management where

32:26
in this environment we're so

32:29
spring-loaded against inflation

32:31
that it's fair to wonder if one if

32:33
inflation is actually transitory

32:36
when the pressures ease will we actually

32:39
see deflation at that point

32:41
and it's not impossible

32:43
so

32:44
you know am i worried about inflation

32:47
i think there's a couple of things that

32:48
people should know the odd thing about

32:50
inflation that most people don't

32:51
recognize is that if you wanted to

32:53
calculate inflation based on your

32:55
experience it would be different than

32:57
cpi because cpi basically breaks things

33:00
down into eight groups eight expense

33:03
categories and then it takes a

33:04
multiplier

33:06
and it says the average person spends

33:08
something like 31 of their money on

33:11
shelter and shelter costs so that's

33:13
going to be your house or your you know

33:15
your rent or your mortgage but it's also

33:16
going to be homeowners insurance etc and

33:19
all the other things that are affiliated

33:20
with your house

33:21
and it's the average person spends 14 or

33:25
whatever the number is on health care

33:27
and

33:28
5 or whatever it is on education okay

33:31
well now take somebody who is 75 years

33:34
old they paid off their house their you

33:37
know maybe they've downsized but they

33:39
don't have the 33 shelter costs because

33:42
they don't need that kind of thing and

33:44
they paid off their house

33:45
but they have way more than 14

33:48
in healthcare because they're visiting

33:50
the doctor you know to get their

33:52
toenails cut let alone anything else

33:53
that they can't reach on their own

33:55
bodies and whatever else so

33:57
so

33:59
if you break it out if you took the

34:00
inflation out and you said okay

34:02
i'm just going to give you the

34:03
multipliers you put in your spending

34:05
pattern

34:06
right that 75 year old well they're not

34:09
that worried about entertainment

34:10
inflation because they're not going out

34:12
to movies and concerts and whatever too

34:14
much and they're not really worried

34:16
about education inflation because

34:18
whatever they give their grandkids is

34:19
fine but they're not paying for an

34:21
education

34:22
they're super concerned about health

34:24
care

34:25
they're less concerned about housing and

34:27
oh by the way what's happening to them

34:29
in the grocery store they're not eating

34:30
as much so it's kind of a wash

34:33
but the person who's 30 and has a family

34:35
of four

34:37
forget about it they are right there so

34:39
so inflation is

34:42
very much a personalized thing for years

34:44
when we said oh inflation was low

34:46
inflation was low

34:47
any senior citizen would tell you i'm

34:49
getting crushed by my health care costs

34:52
and that's

34:53
so so you could say oh inflation's not

34:55
bad

34:56
but a lot of houses were and a lot of

34:58
households and homes were having trouble

35:00
with inflation because of their spending

35:02
patterns and where they are in life and

35:04
that's what we don't know about

35:05
inflation and that's where we all have

35:07
to get to i mean

35:09
uh

35:10
you know we're gonna see prices go up

35:12
it's costing you more more at the

35:13
grocery store yes it is at least for the

35:15
time being but again if you're you know

35:18
an empty nester

35:19
me and the dog

35:21
i don't buy much in food like i bought

35:23
my monthly food budget

35:25
is maybe what i spent in a week when my

35:27
kids were young in here so

35:29
you know inflation affects you

35:31
differently and as for interest rates

35:33
rates are not going to rise for the rest

35:34
of this year

35:35
i'm not convinced that they'll rise

35:38
until the second half of next year

35:41
and if the right things happen it could

35:42
be all the way out into 2023

35:47
but when rates go up the market will

35:49
respond badly the question is for how

35:51
long

35:52
i had a guest on my show

35:54
that appeared on my show the day that

35:56
we're taping this

35:58
who

35:59
was talking about how he actually thinks

36:02
that you could see an interest rate hike

36:04
sooner rather than later

36:05
and yet his response to that was okay

36:08
if it's not measured and it's not done

36:10
in a lot of control that could be a

36:12
problem

36:13
and yet i wouldn't pull my money out of

36:15
the market and i would still be

36:16
investing here because the still the

36:18
best place for your market for money is

36:20
going to be domestic markets and big

36:22
name large company stocks they will give

36:25
you the safety and security even if

36:27
rates go up so

36:29
long term i'm invested short term i'm

36:31
invested and all the stuff about

36:33
annuities and everything else is

36:35
protecting yourself so that oh by the

36:37
way yeah when the market takes a

36:39
downturn you're comfortable to go i can

36:41
stick with my plan how's your how's your

36:44
stomach feeling about all of this

36:46
printing of money i mean you've been

36:47
around a long time

36:50
this is blue water as they say i mean

36:52
the last time we were even in this

36:53
ballpark was world war ii

36:55
you know and i guess this can be

36:56
considered a war as well

36:58
what's your opinion of this well

37:01
depending on who you talk to and i've

37:03
talked to guys like

37:05
lacey hunt a former you know chief

37:07
economist for the fed and

37:09
and larry kotlikoff and and guys like

37:11
that who are

37:13
very very concerned and then you get the

37:15
other folks you get the economist like

37:18
stephanie kelton who wrote a book about

37:21
you know deficit spending and how

37:24
just go do it because it's not going to

37:25
be a big deal it kind of depends where

37:27
you fall on that camp

37:29
um

37:30
i'm certainly not

37:32
happy

37:33
with the deficits where they are

37:37
but

37:40
go back to the famous quote that

37:42
republicans shorten down of ronald

37:44
reagan about you know the problem this

37:46
is not a problem that the government can

37:47
solve you know this is a problem the

37:48
government is the problem

37:49
[Music]

37:51
but if you look at the full context of

37:53
the quote and i would i've already

37:55
misquoted it i don't want to make it any

37:56
worse if you look at the full context of

37:58
the quote as he was talking about a very

38:00
specific situation

38:02
which that always gets removed and it's

38:03
always just government is the problem

38:06
no that's not even what reagan believed

38:09
what you have is a situation with the

38:11
pandemic where the government is the

38:13
solution we absolutely needed what was

38:15
done

38:16
it absolutely needed to be done and i'll

38:18
point out

38:20
and this is without getting political

38:21
look

38:22
i'd be totally in favor of whatever tax

38:25
cuts you can pass my way like

38:27
you know sure you're going to offer them

38:29
to me i'm going to take them you know

38:32
it's kind of like all those people who

38:33
are against socialism but they're not

38:34
returning their social security check

38:37
you know um

38:39
let's just point out that

38:42
the idea that we're gonna

38:44
you know the the trump separate from the

38:46
politics let's talk about what happened

38:48
there were tax cuts during the trump era

38:51
and what was said was we cut the taxes

38:54
mostly for the wealthy and the

38:56
corporations it's going to to use

38:59
reagan's term trickle down and it's

39:01
going to pick everybody else up and

39:02
you'll see economic growth

39:04
yet the economic growth during the trump

39:06
year's pre-pandemic if you want to throw

39:08
that out was 2.9 percent which is

39:11
exactly what it was leading into the

39:13
trump administration pre to tax cuts so

39:16
if everything was going to be like hey

39:18
they'll get this money and we'll see

39:19
growth guess what didn't happen

39:23
now i'm not saying hey go spend it and

39:24
you'll see a lot of growth but i do

39:26
think that there has to be some and i

39:28
think

39:28
the the really curious part for me is as

39:31
somebody who watches the numbers

39:33
we're at a spot where

39:35
all of the numbers right now are kind of

39:36
meaningless if you look at anything

39:38
right now growth is incredible but

39:40
growth is compared to a year ago when

39:42
there was no growth right we basically

39:45
stopped everything next year

39:47
you could get back to this point next

39:49
year get to where you're looking at

39:51
second quarter growth numbers and going

39:53
wow it's only five percent we're down

39:57
you know

39:58
25 30 percentage points from a year ago

40:01
like relatively speaking where we had

40:03
eight percent growth we're down at five

40:06
that stinks but it doesn't stink

40:08
relative to what we're used to so right

40:11
now the numbers are really really tricky

40:15
and i'm not sure like

40:17
hey politically we can't come up and

40:19
agree on anything

40:21
which is horrific it's just really bad

40:24
for the country it is sad um

40:27
and and as somebody who considers myself

40:29
mostly centrist i'm sure that if you've

40:31
got folks on both sides of the aisle

40:32
they both hate me right now and that's

40:34
okay with me

40:35
um they just don't know you chuck they

40:37
haven't been a theolous monk fish with

40:39
you

40:40
what about a great restaurant well but

40:42
but the fact is that

40:44
that

40:46
we need to get to where there's some

40:47
measure of agreement i you know i'm

40:49
somebody who would tell you i want to

40:50
hear the republicans tell me what they

40:53
want to do like

40:54
don't worry i'll don't give me policy

40:56
that is i disagree with those guys give

40:58
me policy that is i want to do this and

41:00
i i say this as a guy who my high school

41:02
class president was chris christie

41:05
so i have interesting philosophical

41:07
discussions on those rare occasions when

41:10
chris and i have you know corresponded

41:12
or gotten together or at a high school

41:13
reunion or whatever i got you um but i i

41:16
think that

41:18
right now where we can't we're having so

41:20
much trouble passing things but where we

41:22
don't really know the validity of the

41:24
numbers

41:25
i'm not

41:27
anti-extra spending

41:29
this is a time

41:31
this is one of those times it's the

41:32
opposite of the reagan time you can't

41:34
apply the reagan thinking about

41:36
government being the problem at all

41:37
times the pandemic was clearly a case

41:40
where

41:41
no you had to go do more

41:43
we're going to come out of this

41:46
and it will presumably be in our

41:48
lifetimes the question is whether it

41:49
will be you know five or six years down

41:51
the line or

41:53
16 to 20 years down the line there's

41:55
going to be a price to be paid and there

41:57
will be a time when we again go hey we

41:59
have to rein in

42:01
but for right now if you want to

42:02
remotely keep things going

42:04
it's going to be the government that

42:06
keeps them going and no amount of tax

42:08
cuts is going to produce extra revenue

42:10
or extra growth that has not been

42:12
working

42:13
and and it will work again at some point

42:15
in the future

42:17
but it's not working now and there's not

42:19
a reason to expect it to suddenly change

42:22
so

42:22
i'll take the spending

42:24
knowing the risk and i don't love those

42:27
risks

42:29
topic complete pivot and you're one of i

42:32
i look at you as one of the top

42:33
financial journalists period you've been

42:36
in that realm in that higher heir for a

42:38
long long time i just i just have been

42:40
doing it longer everybody else has got

42:42
lost their job

42:43
but i'm but i'm but things have changed

42:46
and the financial journalism space has

42:48
changed um it's gone

42:51
from a from a place where it was valued

42:54
and paid for to now it's a place of

42:55
entrepreneurship where someone like you

42:57
you know

42:58
createsmoneylifeshow.com which is wildly

43:00
successful but if you didn't have that

43:02
entrepreneurial flair

43:03
in in you you'd probably be a manager at

43:06
some other place you know you just are

43:08
smart

43:09
i love the fact that you believe money

43:11
live show is wildly successful i do i do

43:14
because i listen to it and i love it

43:16
we're not wildly successful

43:19
because

43:21
we're holding to old school journalistic

43:22
values

43:24
which brings me to my point and that

43:25
that's where i know you were going so

43:27
where are we at now chuck with financial

43:30
back in the day

43:32
i used to trust what i read now i'm

43:34
always figuring out all right wait a

43:35
minute is that a pay for play are they

43:37
paying to play it

43:39
explain where we're at and what people

43:40
need to be aware of and what to look out

43:42
for because there's a lot of hidden

43:43
agendas out there well there are but of

43:46
course people also want to ascribe

43:47
agendas where none exists this is one of

43:50
those cases

43:51
you know just because you know you're

43:53
not paranoid doesn't mean they're not

43:55
out to get you but

43:56
both sides are

43:58
are there like

43:59
you know i mean it was funny when i

44:01
worked for market watch market watch was

44:02
part of dow jones which is part of fox

44:05
and so if you didn't like you know you

44:07
didn't like what i was writing you

44:08
attacked me said of course he works for

44:10
you know cbs market watch which it

44:12
wasn't anymore at that point right and

44:14
no ties to cbs and we were owned by fox

44:18
and yet i wasn't getting credit for

44:20
being on that you know i i think at

44:22
times it's the biases that people bring

44:24
you know you mentioned in lacrosse i

44:26
officiate games right

44:28
you know

44:30
if you truly want to talk about a

44:31
referee like

44:33
if i make a call and there's a fan on

44:34
the side and they agree they're like

44:36
good call ref good call

44:38
i

44:40
know that they're only saying good call

44:41
because it went their way right

44:44
i don't care if they say like if you

44:46
actually wanted to cheer for the referee

44:48
what you do is you'd go call ref call

44:52
call don't don't put good or bad in it

44:54
because

44:55
it's not good or bad it's i made a call

44:57
i saw it i had to call it

44:59
and we've gotten to where

45:01
we view journalism with that idea if you

45:04
agree with me i want confirmation bias

45:06
if you disagree with me you know then

45:08
you're going against me and you're crazy

45:10
and

45:12
that's a problem and and the news media

45:14
itself

45:16
it's very tough to figure out who's out

45:18
there and who's independent where

45:19
they're coming from it's also let me

45:21
point out super hard

45:23
to figure out where the journalists are

45:26
coming from i will point out

45:28
that

45:29
i'm involved i'm not only a past

45:32
president of like the largest group of

45:34
business journalists in the country but

45:36
i'm a member of this group of bloggers

45:38
and podcasters etc which includes some

45:40
folks like me with a serious journalism

45:42
background and it includes some folks

45:44
who you know said damn this saving money

45:47
thing is hard

45:49
i want to tell my friends and neighbors

45:50
what i'm doing and then they started a

45:52
blog and then they said hey as long as i

45:53
put this effort in right i want to make

45:55
some money with it right

45:57
so you'll see things in this group where

45:59
somebody's writing for a respected

46:01
publication i will not name the names

46:02
but trust me places you know and you

46:05
expect higher quality journalism i know

46:07
look i'm i'm looking for an expert on

46:09
getting out of debt

46:11
and if you could help me whatever and no

46:13
like leave a google doc

46:15
and all these people will go and write

46:17
them quotes

46:19
but they're not doing an interview as

46:20
you and i know when you and i talk there

46:22
are times where we're going down one

46:24
path and suddenly a comment is made and

46:26
we go in a different direction and i've

46:28
had times where you've been a source for

46:29
me on stories

46:31
and i've been assuming when i come to

46:33
the fork in the road my column's going

46:35
in one direction and you have basically

46:38
because we're having a conversation

46:40
convince me that if i go in that

46:41
direction i'm missing the story i need

46:43
to go in the other direction you have to

46:45
have those conversations well they're

46:46
not only not having those conversations

46:49
you're basically finding whatever fits

46:51
like oh let me find something that fits

46:52
but then if you do the background check

46:54
on who's doing it sure these are people

46:56
who got

46:57
out of oh i had forty thousand dollars

47:00
in credit card debt and i got myself out

47:01
i hadn't seen

47:03
that doesn't actually make them expert

47:05
in getting out of debt it makes them

47:07
experienced

47:08
by the way they're equally expert

47:11
at how to screw up your finances and get

47:13
into sixty thousand dollars of credit

47:15
card debt yet they're not raising their

47:17
hand to go like hey that was me

47:19
right

47:20
so the result of this is

47:22
that

47:23
it's bad on all levels the quality of

47:25
journalism is significantly down totally

47:28
agree the

47:29
the audience is expecting certain things

47:31
and then you have those sides that say

47:33
what can i say what can't i say i mean i

47:35
can tell you i used to do regular hits

47:38
on radio for for example stupid

47:40
investment of the week i had a guy in

47:42
boston

47:43
who

47:44
i was appearing pretty much every week

47:46
until by the way it was i think an

47:49
annuity product

47:51
that i made stupid investment a week and

47:53
oh by the way he was selling that

47:54
annuity

47:55
his team had recommended that annuity

47:58
okay i'm not saying like we didn't say

47:59
it was wrong for everybody right and i

48:02
was never invited back on the show after

48:03
that like we did the the one thing and i

48:06
was never invited back after that okay

48:08
well then you don't want truth you don't

48:09
want discussion

48:11
and that's a huge part of it

48:14
people have an idea of what balance is

48:16
supposed to be look i'm a columnist i

48:18
have no responsibility to be balanced

48:21
right

48:21
i'm dumb if i don't try to make it

48:23
balanced and i'm really dumb if i don't

48:27
try to make sure that you know the

48:28
efforts that i went to to include

48:30
balance or talk to both sides or do

48:32
whatever but ultimately i am allowed to

48:35
come to my conclusions reporters well

48:39
we would be a lot better off if

48:42
we could get away from reporters

48:43
offering their opinions in places that

48:45
are not clearly marked as this is my

48:47
opinion

48:48
in other words i totally agree in the

48:50
1980s when i worked at the saint

48:51
petersburg times i was a business writer

48:54
we did have this thing called a

48:56
reporter's notebook column where you

48:58
could basically talk about like what you

49:00
had that didn't fit into any of your

49:01
other work

49:03
but you weren't really allowed to go out

49:04
and kind of say well i think x y and z

49:07
are going to happen and you should and

49:08
now

49:09
reporters do that and they do that

49:11
because we got a 24-hour news cycle

49:13
right a lot to fill and expertise is not

49:15
valued and real expertise is hard to

49:17
prove

49:18
and if i can sound better than you

49:21
or whatever maybe i'll get those hits so

49:24
you know for us

49:26
we on money life for example we've

49:28
turned away

49:30
a number of advertisers where nope i'm

49:33
sorry

49:34
if you wanted to advertise on my show it

49:36
would be allowed but if you want me as

49:38
the host to read your ad and say well

49:41
hey make sure you talk to my friends at

49:43
uh no i don't have any friends in the

49:46
financial services world like stan i

49:48
love you but oh by the way if tomorrow

49:50
you have a problem with regulators or

49:51
whatever

49:52
it'll be me that's hoisting you up the

49:54
flagpole absolutely and i'd want i'd

49:56
want you to be a pretty big flagpole

49:58
since i'm six six but hey just to close

50:00
something out uh yeah we've had it this

50:02
has been great i want you back on

50:03
obviously

50:04
um kind of words of wisdom for the you

50:07
know the people listening to this are

50:08
either people that are thinking about

50:09
retirement getting ready to retire have

50:11
retired been retired for a long long

50:14
time

50:15
and then all the other stragglers as

50:17
they say um

50:19
we're at all-time high on markets

50:21
interest rates are at all-time low debts

50:22
at all-time high political hate what do

50:26
you tell people right here chuck

50:28
uh focus inward

50:31
right now especially for the audience

50:32
that you described we were talking about

50:34
retires and pre-retirees and i can tell

50:36
you i've just i've been doing some of

50:37
this myself

50:39
start to look at your portfolio and go

50:41
what would reduce my stress so if your

50:43
portfolio is more a collection than a

50:45
portfolio

50:46
right

50:47
you know that's a great way to have

50:49
these things that you bought 20 years

50:51
ago like

50:53
i i've told this story before that you

50:55
know at some point in the 1980s i had a

50:57
couple hundred extra bucks this was

50:59
before we had discount brokers and we

51:01
could do everything

51:02
so i called my broker who would give me

51:04
a discount in those days and i bought

51:06
like 400 worth of stock in gap right gap

51:09
stores yeah yeah and it went from like

51:12
400 bucks

51:14
oh at some point it was probably worth

51:16
six thousand bucks

51:17
but you know it was under five grand re

51:21
you know and i would look at it and

51:23
every year i would look at it go well i

51:25
don't want to sell this because

51:26
basically it's all big taxable gain like

51:28
congratulations

51:30
you're up from 4 000 from 400 to 4 800

51:34
you've got a 12 bagger even if it took

51:36
you a long time to get there

51:38
but oh by the way

51:40
4 400 of that is taxable you know that's

51:42
almost a thousand bucks going to uncle

51:45
uh

51:46
you know sam is not not my favorite guy

51:48
to get my money so

51:51
for the longest time i kind of said well

51:52
i wouldn't buy more but i'm not getting

51:53
rid of it because i don't want to pay

51:54
the capital gains and then i came into

51:57
my own portfolio and said you know look

51:58
i'm now going to have a rule that

51:59
basically says if i don't like it enough

52:01
to make it at least one percent of my

52:03
holdings i don't like it enough to own

52:05
it

52:06
so then you take a look in that lens and

52:08
i don't care what the capital gains are

52:09
because oh by the way how much money

52:11
could it really be if it's only one

52:12
percent of my it's not even one percent

52:14
of my portfolio right okay you got some

52:16
taxes but you know the easiest way to

52:19
avoid taxes is to lose money i'd rather

52:20
owe taxes and make money

52:22
um

52:24
so

52:25
i went through and you know yeah i can't

52:26
justify buying more i would never buy

52:28
that stock today it has to go

52:30
so i consolidated some things i have

52:32
have done that try to make it that oh

52:35
you know

52:36
i'm old enough that i've got this old

52:38
roth ira that i opened directly with the

52:40
mutual fund company sure now i can fold

52:42
it in and have all of my retirement

52:44
assets

52:45
in one way oh here's all my iras you

52:48
know here's my taxable stuff consolidate

52:51
and do things that give you better

52:52
control

52:54
and don't let the tax tail wag the dog

52:56
and don't make your decisions based on

52:58
like oh it was good to me once that's

53:00
like bad boyfriend material don't do

53:03
that you're not in love with them

53:04
they're your investments

53:06
and and

53:08
you know sell your losers if you have

53:10
them to get the tax benefits and put

53:12
them into something you're going to like

53:13
better as opposed to stressing yourself

53:15
out and do all the things that make it

53:17
that you're not going to be stressed

53:18
that you feel like you've got really

53:20
good control over what you're doing if

53:22
you've taken the annuity step and you

53:23
know that you have the income protected

53:27
then relax i mean i say every day at the

53:29
end of my show

53:30
i i remind people until we do this again

53:32
the next time the best thing you could

53:34
do for your money is to not worry too

53:36
much about it

53:38
that's it if you're in the retirement

53:40
stage if you're at that retirement stage

53:43
your life should be about a lot of other

53:44
things if you'll love dealing with money

53:47
cool knock yourself out

53:49
but deal with it

53:51
not from a base of worry

53:53
but from a base of this is my fun this

53:55
is my entertainment i want to see how

53:57
well i can do i want to feel active and

53:59
vibrant not from

54:01
wait

54:02
i bought this meme stock on an option i

54:05
gambled and oh by the way if i'm wrong

54:07
i'm going to know what dog food tastes

54:08
like at the end of this week

54:10
that's not how you want to invest and

54:12
ladies and gentlemen that's chuck jaffe

54:15
he go to

54:17
moneylifeshow.commoneylifeshow.com we're

54:19
going to have a page on my site

54:21
just for chuck because he deserves it i

54:23
mean he's certainly going to be a guest

54:25
on this show

54:26
again

54:27
but i appreciate everyone for joining us

54:29
on the number one annuity podcast on the

54:31
planet that

54:32
sometimes talks about annuities and

54:34
sometimes we don't i'm your host stan

54:36
the annuity man and i will see you

54:38
next week

54:44
thanks for listening to fun with

54:46
annuities please hit the subscribe

54:48
button and make sure to go to my site at

54:51
the

54:51
annuityman.com where you can run your

54:53
own spea dia and culat quotes and see a

54:57
live feed of the best mica fix rates in

54:59
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55:02
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55:04
also sign up for my six annuity owner's

55:07
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55:09
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55:12
you to schedule a one-on-one call with

55:14
me stan the annuity man so we can have a

55:17
full discussion of your specific

55:19
situation

55:20
it will be the best brutally factual and

55:23
truthful advice

55:24
you will ever get and that's one

55:26
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55:28
advantage of so join me next time for

55:30
the number one annuity podcast on the

55:32
planet fun

55:34
with annuities

55:38
[Music]

55:49
you