072 Owen Schrum: When Free Ain’t Free

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welcome to

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fun with annuities with your host me

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stan

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the annuity man america's annuity agent

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can annuities be fun

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can contractual guarantees be fun

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absolutely they can find out the brutal

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facts about annuities

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with no sales pitches or high pressure

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nonsense

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just the brutal and factual annuity

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truth which is all you need to hear

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let's have some fun with annuities and

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let's have that fun start right

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now

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[Music]

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welcome to fun with annuities the number

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one annuity podcast on the planet i'm

0:43
your host stan the annuity man america's

0:45
annuity agent

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licensed in all 50 states the great part

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about the fun with annuities podcast is

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you can listen to it

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on all major podcast platforms you can

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also look at my facial expressions and

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the

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guest as well on the fun with annuities

0:59
youtube channel this thing is growing by

1:00
leaps and bounds and i think it's

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because

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we're not just talking about annuities i

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mean the fun with annuities youtube

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channel

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slogan is living the reality not the

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dream so when i bring people on i want

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them to be talking about things that

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might not be annuities might be markets

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might be investments might be a lot of

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things

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but today's guest is a repeat guest he

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actually was the inaugural

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you know celebrity guest on the fun with

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annuities podcast

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and he is mad smart personal friend

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went to the university of chapel hill

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which makes him almost royalty

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um because he's a basketball fan his

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name is owen schrum

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oh and welcome to fun with annuities

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once again

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it is good to be here with you it's good

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to be here with the audience i had a

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great time last time i'm glad to be here

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now you can go as you know with with

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when owen was on the last time he has

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his own

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page in perpetuity on the annuityman.com

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so you can go to the annuityman.com

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go to the podcast drop downs we'll have

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all of owen's information where you can

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you know call him schedule call you know

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see if he fits for you

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he runs one of the top money management

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firms

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in the country based out of raleigh

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north carolina god's country

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it's from pw.com s-c-h-r-u-m-p-w

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dot com all together and so if you want

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to go there and check him out

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but he's been doing this a long long

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time full disclosure owen and i used to

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be partners at morgan stanley

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long long time ago he taught me

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everything i know and

2:35
about the markets and he's forgotten

2:36
that more than most people will ever

2:38
know

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about the stock the stock market markets

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in general finances etc

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he just he just knows his stuff he's one

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of those guys it's kind of like um

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a basketball player that has natural

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ability he has natural ability

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um to lessen risk of a portfolio while

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managing it for growth

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and that is a skill set that not many

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people possess oh and let's jump right

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in there's a crisis in this country owen

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absolutely and it's not covered it is

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and it isn't but it's really not

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um the crisis is a retirement crisis can

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you

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jump in and um give the give the

3:14
listeners what that means to you

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absolutely before covet dominated the

3:19
news

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a lot of news came out was generated by

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a report done by the national retirement

3:26
association

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and they deemed it they called it the

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crisis in

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retirement in america and their studies

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showed

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get this stan an audience 68

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of all people over 60 are not going to

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have

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sufficient money to live on when they

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retire

3:45
68 percent in addition to that we've got

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the

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next generations after that the

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generation x the millennials

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marching towards that same conclusion

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end result there is a real

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crisis in america and it can't be solved

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by social security

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and we're here to talk about that and

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how that should not happen to your

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listening and viewing audience

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absolutely social security as we all

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know

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and some of us forget it was never put

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on the planet to be the sole

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income source for retirement yet it is

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for most people

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and as we know uh financially

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we can have our arguments about if it if

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it's solvent if they can pay it

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et cetera i do think down the road oh

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and i'd like to get your comment on this

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i'm guessing there's going to be some

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serious means testing meaning you evil

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rich people out there

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you know that's worked your butts off

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and and saved and put money aside and

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scrimped

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and done without you're the evil rich

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and they're going to probably punish you

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do you think that will happen with our

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lovely government

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you know it's funny you say that

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literally this morning anyone ever heard

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of ken langone

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founder of home depot

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you know if i still drink beer that'd be

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a guy i want to drink beer with

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absolutely

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he was on cnbc with elizabeth warren and

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the topic was

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if you make over a certain amount of

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money you don't get social security

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now the politicians don't want to take

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that on and quite frankly

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i let's face it if you need to be means

5:14
tested it's not an issue

5:16
the issue is that social security is not

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enough

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for the average person to live on in

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retirement and meet the standard of

5:24
living

5:25
that they have right now correct so

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while that may or may not happen

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more importantly is to make sure in

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addition to social security

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that you have enough wealth and income

5:36
sources

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so that you're not working at a store

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greeting people when they walk in the

5:40
door at 75.

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always tell people oh and that if if

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there is a hell

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um and and i go there i'll be a walmart

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greeter

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and then run a restaurant and then run a

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restaurant at night

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that'll be my punishment because that

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wouldn't

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that would not be good um finra let's

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talk about finra for a second explain to

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people who finra

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is and just kind of some of the problems

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and some of the bad investment decisions

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that finra is concerned about you're

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concerned about

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tie that up in a nice bow well let's

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first off say

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what finra is it is financial industry

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regulatory association much like the bar

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and the ama it is the agency

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self-regulatory

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agency that oversees regulates the

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financial services industry

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and while it is not a government agency

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they are empowered with the same

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subpoena laws and they're empowered with

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the same enforcement law so

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it is the top of the financial industry

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in addition to the sec

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the securities exchange commission and

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we're going to talk about both of those

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what's important

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is i'm going to back up for a little bit

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uh

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if i may stand please a lot of people

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say this crisis in america is caused by

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a lack of savings

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and i'm not convinced it is certainly an

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important part of it i also believe

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strongly and unlike your input

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that it's caused by people making

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not the smartest decisions about the

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money they've earned

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they're not making the smartest

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investment decisions with their money

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they're not earning enough money to so

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that it grows or they're not investing

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it so that it grows

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so it's not just that you're not savings

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enough it's that you're not

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investing your money correctly to have

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it grow to supplement your wealth

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and the reason i bring that up is

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there's lots of reasons for those poor

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decisions and one of them i call it the

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free paradigm and everybody's searching

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for something free

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and as we know in business and in

7:50
industry there is no free lunch it's an

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old saying but boy is it true

7:55
and if you go to the free lunch don't

7:56
buy anything

7:58
don't eat the cheese especially when it

7:59
comes to annuities eat the food

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swallow the food not the pitch so

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finra's job is to point these things out

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to the public and keeping from happening

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and then policing the industry to keep

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it from

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happening they did a study in 2018 get

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this number this is a real number

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from the agency 50 billion

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dollars in claims of investment

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malfeasance

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50 billion dollars 1.2

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million claims to finra against

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poor investment advice or worse nine

8:35
percent of those claimants

8:37
went bankrupt so it's not just you're

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not saving enough

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it's that you're not investing your

8:43
money making the best decisions

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and one of the things we want to do is

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talk about why that is

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is the case often it's because people

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are being

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confused or misled or not

8:56
correctly disclosed that everything

8:59
isn't free and it's costing them their

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savings well

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and also too i believe that it can be

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summed up in one phrase whether it's

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annuities life insurance products

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investments ets stocks bonds whatever

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if it sounds too good to be true it is

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every single time no exceptions

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okay period and if i don't care what

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anybody is telling you whether it's

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annuities or non-annuities

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if it if it just says wait a minute that

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sounds really good then it's not true

9:27
okay it's just not and if for old

9:30
grizzled veterans like

9:32
owen and i who have cowboy boots older

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than most financial advisors that that's

9:36
this time

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and owen said something to me a long

9:38
time ago that's always stuck and he said

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most advisors and i'll throw in agents

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have never seen a down market they come

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and go there's a lot of turnover in the

9:48
financial services business

9:49
but for people like owen and i we have

9:51
scars okay

9:53
where we have been there when markets

9:56
really did take a dive and there were

9:58
some issues

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we're in a bull market oh and people

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just think it's going to go up they

10:03
forgot about 2008 haven't they

10:06
they forgot about 2008 they forgot about

10:08
2000

10:09
2001 they forgot about 1987.

10:13
but stand more important to that point

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i'm gonna argue we have had since 2009

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a resounding recovery off that recession

10:24
the markets have done well

10:26
the numbers show most people have not

10:27
participated in it

10:30
interesting and full of investors

10:33
most investors have not fully

10:36
participated

10:38
in markets when they do go up so it's a

10:40
double whammy when it goes down

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they suffer when it goes up they don't

10:44
build the wealth they should

10:46
because of not always making the best

10:48
decisions

10:51
and that and that's sad i think it's a

10:54
it's a lack of education i think there's

10:56
a fear factor there

10:57
as well i think there's a lot of people

10:58
that grew up without wealth that all of

11:00
a sudden find themselves in upper middle

11:02
class

11:02
america where they have some wealth um i

11:05
know for a fact that probably both of us

11:07
got into this

11:08
business a long long time ago because we

11:10
grew up in families

11:11
that never participated in markets and

11:13
and it was uh

11:14
you know we were trying to figure out

11:15
hey wait a minute how are all these

11:16
people got all this money

11:18
how's this how does how does this work

11:20
so what for you

11:21
how do you take someone that calls you

11:24
and is you know they're like i really

11:26
don't want to lose money but they need

11:27
growth

11:28
um how do you how do you talk to them

11:31
about

11:33
why they need to tiptoe in well

11:36
first off let's look at the environment

11:38
we're in

11:39
inflation's running two percent i don't

11:42
know if anybody noticed the last

11:44
inflation claim came in at 5.2

11:48
for the last quarter and so if you don't

11:51
invest your money for growth you're

11:54
receiving between

11:56
point one and one point five percent on

11:59
your money

12:00
and then if you're making even some

12:02
really good investments like fixed

12:04
annuities stan what are they three

12:06
percent

12:06
three percent on a five year at the time

12:08
of this taping look at the data that's

12:09
taken

12:10
in case you're listening to it down the

12:11
road um but that's just a reflection of

12:14
current interest rates et cetera the

12:15
reason that annuity companies can

12:17
provide a little bit more they have a

12:19
dynamic pricing model but it's still a

12:20
contractual guarantee but

12:22
reality is reality and that's the reason

12:23
we the the the name of this the

12:25
slogan of this podcast is living the

12:27
reality not the dream

12:28
and that what that means is not the

12:30
sales pitch dream whether it's annuities

12:31
or non-annuities so

12:33
so you tell them what they're they're

12:35
they're say well

12:37
how why do i get in why do i get in now

12:39
what are you telling people

12:41
well half the time the first 10 first 25

12:44
percent of the conversation is

12:45
is unteaching them what other people

12:48
have already told them

12:49
because it wasn't true i'm sorry it

12:52
wasn't true

12:53
that's some of the things we're going to

12:54
talk about but what you do talk about as

12:56
you give them numbers you show them over

12:57
time what returns are

12:59
if you give it a five year period and if

13:01
you have that long and then you run the

13:03
numbers

13:04
you do a plan you allocate you diversify

13:07
you don't have all your eggs in one

13:09
basket you have some eggs in stocks you

13:11
have some eggs and annuities you have

13:13
some

13:13
in in cds you have a diversified

13:17
portfolio that

13:18
fits your risk level and fits your

13:21
return so that you will be able to

13:23
retire successfully

13:25
so the word is you have a plan you work

13:28
it

13:28
you're diversified and you are allocated

13:31
correctly and i think people get misled

13:34
when the word active management

13:36
is thrown around active management

13:38
doesn't mean you're trading all the time

13:39
active management means that owing

13:41
owen and his team they're watching and

13:43
they're thinking

13:44
and they're looking um and you know

13:46
they're making decisions but

13:48
it's not some you know wall street

13:49
trader on the floor or whatever you have

13:51
in your mind

13:52
that is happening one thing i want to

13:54
talk to you about that um

13:56
you know we were emailing back and forth

13:57
on some specific topics anytime there's

14:00
a low interest rate environment we've

14:01
been around the block a little bit

14:02
too long you know that's that's when

14:04
annuity companies

14:06
and and brokerage firms and banks start

14:09
making up things

14:10
and we call them structured products

14:11
they make them up out of midair they put

14:13
names on them they do back tested

14:14
numbers that look great that aren't

14:16
real you know in the annuity world the

14:18
newest thing is what's called a buffered

14:19
annuity i call it a copay annuity

14:21
meaning that

14:22
you're going to share in some of the

14:23
losses which is why are you even by an

14:25
annuity at that point

14:27
and you have limited upside but talk

14:29
about some of the structured products

14:30
you've seen

14:32
people make mistakes with that are

14:34
currently out there what to watch for

14:35
and what's really happening

14:37
with these structured brokerage type

14:39
products well

14:40
first when someone's going to recommend

14:42
it to you they're not going to say stan

14:44
i have a structured product for you

14:45
they're going to say

14:46
i have this investment that lets you

14:48
take go up when the market goes up but

14:50
your principal's protected

14:53
first off light bulb listen if i always

14:56
tell people that's your typical indexed

14:58
annuity pitch or buffered annuity pitch

15:00
if that was true then owen and i get in

15:03
the

15:03
in the rented mercedes sprinter van

15:06
drive to dc and convince them

15:08
the fed that's all they need to buy i

15:10
mean once again if it sounds too good to

15:12
be true it is every single time so go

15:14
further with the structured

15:15
stuff a structured product the origin is

15:19
people feel like they're not getting

15:21
what they want out of their investment

15:23
and let me explain for a second

15:24
they want growth and they want

15:26
guarantees

15:28
that's what they want well guess what

15:30
wall street insurance companies are very

15:32
good at doing

15:33
selling people what they think they want

15:35
it's true exactly

15:36
so they create structured

15:39
investments in a single investment and

15:42
here's how it's set up they'll it's a

15:44
debt instrument

15:45
they are loaning it's a debt obligation

15:48
you're loaning them money then inside

15:51
that debt instrument

15:53
they're investing in options commodities

15:58
debt structures and

16:01
alternate investments derivatives

16:05
and then they wrap it together and say

16:06
the combination of all those three

16:08
three things that happening when the

16:10
models work we're going to guarantee

16:12
you're getting your money back in three

16:13
years

16:14
and if the market goes up it's going to

16:15
grow or they'll guarantee you'll get

16:17
eight percent

16:18
other guarantee you get six percent but

16:20
guess what the models don't always work

16:24
typically we have six to seven percent

16:27
fees

16:27
inside of them yeah and they typically

16:31
also you can't they're illiquid you

16:33
can't cash them in without great

16:35
penalties if

16:36
at all so so and by the way guess

16:39
what the firm's doing the the investment

16:42
firm insurance company

16:43
is getting free they're they're

16:45
borrowing money they're getting cheap

16:47
money

16:48
generating fees off of it for themselves

16:50
and their brokers

16:51
and if and when it works and if it

16:53
doesn't they move on

16:55
they sell billions of dollars of them a

16:58
study by

16:59
ohio state finance department and

17:02
28 people lost 52 billion dollars

17:06
in structured products a large number

17:10
the sec did a warning warning

17:13
people about structured products but

17:17
still they're out there you're just not

17:19
going no one's gonna say though it's a

17:21
structured product

17:22
they're gonna call it a um made up words

17:25
quarks and mics and rips and what

17:27
i mean they're they're made up out of

17:29
midair i mean it can it kills me i

17:31
always tell

17:32
people with annuities and i think this

17:34
goes with investments and i know that

17:35
you are

17:36
you really are a good explainer and

17:39
simplifier of the process and how things

17:41
work

17:41
but if you cannot explain it to a

17:43
nine-year-old don't buy it no offense to

17:45
nine-year-olds

17:46
and with these structured products

17:49
there's no way

17:50
i yeah i would say 95 of the people

17:52
selling them can't explain them they're

17:54
just doing a 30 000 foot flyover

17:56
here's here's the here's the key points

17:58
what are some of the names of these

18:00
things that are out there

18:03
principal protected notes great

18:07
reverse convertible notes

18:11
guaranteed principal notes auction rate

18:14
securities

18:16
sparks direct reverse

18:19
upside notes stop

18:22
there's something called a direct

18:23
reverse upside note

18:26
there's there's a list this long that's

18:28
a drone

18:29
a direct reverse upside note is a drone

18:32
d-r-u-n that's

18:33
that's the acronym would you sir would

18:35
you like to buy a drone

18:37
it's not a drone it's a

18:41
is drone guaranteed notes so

18:44
i'm going to ask you a capital

18:45
guaranteed note and you buy it and

18:47
someone sends you a book that's this

18:49
thick and you do it

18:50
and it says we're doing reverse put

18:52
options

18:53
naked spreads derivative

18:57
futures contracts so where do you tie in

19:01
futures reverse futures contracts call

19:04
options and

19:05
put spreads and then sell something that

19:08
says capital guaranteed notes

19:10
i mean you both know the people running

19:11
it are 25 years old

19:13
i mean they're they're literally right

19:15
out of master's degrees

19:17
getting their mba and now they're

19:19
they're running it is scary once again

19:23
my favor my favorite is the drone we

19:24
have come up with what was that direct

19:26
what was that again i i i

19:29
direct reverse obligation notes or yeah

19:32
or upside notes

19:34
drones that's fantastic and also the

19:37
thing you're seeing a lot now is people

19:38
are selling these lit

19:39
and i want to i do want to talk about

19:41
this real quick leveraged etfs

19:43
are another form of structured products

19:45
where

19:46
three times up the market if the market

19:48
goes yeah

19:50
there's in the sec just issued a warning

19:53
people have been destroyed by that they

19:56
only

19:56
work for a day because the derivative

20:00
contracts and futures contracts inside

20:02
break down

20:03
after a day so people are buying these

20:05
and being sold ahead to their portfolios

20:08
it doesn't work anything that's

20:10
leveraged the word

20:12
leveraged in it and i always tell people

20:14
to you know be careful when you

20:15
if you're buying like a you know closed

20:17
in fund you know back in the day you

20:19
know you taught me a long time ago to

20:20
look at

20:21
see how much they're leveraged like a

20:22
leveraged bond fund or something like a

20:24
bond fund that's leveraged

20:26
leverage isn't good and i think that's

20:27
what's going to eventually unwind crypto

20:31
because they're leveraging crypto to buy

20:34
crypto

20:34
you know buying a credit card you know

20:36
paying off credit card for with a credit

20:37
card

20:38
i'm not saying it's exactly like that

20:39
but anytime there's leverage

20:42
and people are in a raging bull market

20:44
and they've never seen a down market

20:46
what are the worst calls you can get in

20:47
your life is not that someone was in a

20:50
car accident the worst call you could

20:51
possibly get in your life is called a

20:53
margin call and people are getting those

20:57
they don't know what to do explain that

20:58
owen

20:59
well margin causes you you have a

21:01
portfolio you then

21:03
borrow against the money in your

21:05
portfolio to buy

21:07
more stocks so if you have

21:10
a hundred thousand dollars and the

21:12
market goes up

21:14
you will you will multiply your upside

21:16
but when it goes down it goes down three

21:19
times faster

21:21
and then when you have to sell something

21:23
your margin so you have to

21:25
sell securities to meet margin calls and

21:28
to generate

21:29
if you got a ten thousand dollar margin

21:31
call you've got to sell

21:32
through thirty thousand five hundred

21:35
dollars worth of stocks

21:37
to meet that margin call so your losses

21:40
are leveraged

21:41
and you look up and you have no

21:44
money it's one of the rare vehicles when

21:47
you absolutely can lose everything

21:49
look if you diversify into a good

21:52
investment portfolio

21:53
you may have some bear markets

21:54
short-term losses you're not going to

21:56
lose everything margin

21:58
borrowing you can lose everything

22:02
oh and let's talk about mutual funds you

22:04
know people think that mutual funds have

22:06
kind of died off and etfs have taken

22:07
over oh no no my friend

22:10
mutual funds are still out there they're

22:12
still profitable they're still a lot of

22:13
them are not tax efficient

22:15
give me and the listeners your take on

22:19
on mutual funds and why just individual

22:22
stocks or individual investments that

22:24
someone like you would

22:26
choose are a better solution than a

22:29
what people think is a turnkey approach

22:31
with mutual funds

22:33
well mutual funds have advantages

22:36
they also have disadvantages that many

22:39
people

22:40
don't aren't aware of and don't talk

22:42
about

22:43
let's talk about one disadvantage and

22:45
that

22:46
you are when you buy a mutual fund

22:49
you're buying someone else's gains that

22:51
you may not have participated in

22:54
so you're if you're this is a real world

22:56
stance you and i know these people

22:59
here's what you are if you get a mutual

23:00
fund if you're a manager at a mutual

23:02
fund at a big firm

23:03
you walk into your desk each day boot up

23:05
your computer and up pops a list

23:08
of how much you've got to buy and sell

23:10
that day

23:11
we're always selling to buy houses the

23:14
market's going up people are selling so

23:16
every day you get a list and

23:18
you've got to raise 100 million dollars

23:19
in cash that day so you got to go into

23:21
your portfolio and sell a 100 million

23:22
dollars worth of stocks

23:24
let's say you bought apple 10 years ago

23:28
for a million dollars it's a mutual fund

23:32
and now it's worth 100 million you've

23:33
got a 99 million dollar game

23:36
that actually happened with apple it

23:38
really did

23:39
so when he comes in and he's got a list

23:42
of money he's got to raise

23:43
he sells everything in the portfolio

23:45
including apple he sells some of it

23:48
so he's got a game he has to realize

23:50
that game

23:51
if you bought that mutual fund new your

23:54
cost basis you're inheriting that one

23:56
dollar cost basis

23:58
so you may have had a loss on your

24:00
mutual fund and at the end of the year

24:02
get a tax bill every year they have to

24:04
declare capital gains and capital losses

24:07
and you are sharing in 10 years of

24:11
other people's gains you're going to be

24:14
charged and have to pay taxes on money

24:16
someone else made

24:17
that you didn't make very very

24:20
tax inefficient what can be more tax and

24:24
efficient than to have to pay taxes on

24:26
something you didn't

24:27
make any money on well and there's all

24:29
kinds of people don't this is another

24:30
thing people don't know

24:32
the the the details of mutual funds

24:34
there's b shares and c

24:35
shares and 12b1 fees and all kinds of

24:36
hidden stuff inside of it

24:38
that should be disclosed the firms will

24:41
say they are in the big

24:42
the big piece of the chunky booklet they

24:44
send you but what you're saying is you

24:46
can circumvent all that if you have a

24:48
professional

24:49
you know fee based fee only money

24:52
manager that's looking after you on the

24:53
same side of the table i think that

24:56
i think that's shifting to a point it's

24:58
not shifting fast enough in my

25:00
opinion i tell my clients all the time

25:01
certainly you don't need

25:03
you don't need really if you have more

25:05
than 50 in annuities we need to check

25:08
you know why and what you're doing

25:10
because the annuity industry kind of

25:11
frowns upon once you go past that so you

25:13
need someone to manage

25:14
your money but with all of the

25:15
self-directed iras out there

25:18
owen um i'm i'm assuming there's

25:20
hundreds hundreds of billions of dollars

25:22
can you talk about

25:23
self-directed iras because most people's

25:25
assets are there um

25:28
and kind of you know what's going on

25:31
what the irs approves and doesn't

25:33
approve

25:33
you know how crypto works all of the

25:35
little nuances and trap

25:36
doors that people need to be aware of

25:39
with if they've decided to

25:41
self-direct their irs well there's two

25:43
kinds of self-directed iras one

25:45
self-directed iras you open up an

25:46
account with

25:47
pick your firm fidelity schwab merrell

25:51
and you work with someone or you work

25:52
with a discount broker and you're

25:54
directing the trades the other

25:56
type of let's and we see it all the time

25:59
i have some rental properties right

26:02
and i want to buy my rental property and

26:04
put in an ira

26:05
so you go out and find a specialized

26:08
custodian who

26:10
registers your rental property in a

26:14
self-directed ira and you

26:17
hold non-liquid assets through a

26:19
custodian and call it an ira

26:23
it can be real estate it can be

26:26
bitcoin it can be gold and you you put

26:29
the you have a custodian

26:31
uh a lot of people will buy will want to

26:34
buy an ipo or put a business interest in

26:37
there

26:37
the irs is has

26:40
50 60 regulations around what you can

26:44
and cannot do with a directed ira a

26:46
self-custodial ryrae

26:48
and if you and the rules are very

26:51
specific

26:52
and very strict and if you blink and get

26:55
one of them wrong stan

26:58
irs disallows the entire

27:02
ira charges penalties and all taxes are

27:06
due

27:06
on that spot for at on that

27:11
second for every penny that you've put

27:13
in that self-custodian ira

27:15
there are no mulligans with the irs you

27:17
know

27:18
if you're a golfer mulligan means you

27:19
hit one in the lake you say well yeah

27:21
i'm just going to put another one back

27:22
on t and hit it again there's no

27:23
mulligans

27:24
tell me what's going on with iras

27:26
self-directed iras and some of the

27:28
crypto nonsense that's out there

27:30
how's the irs looking at that i know

27:32
they haven't figured it out or have they

27:34
they haven't figured it out but they are

27:35
putting the rules in now they're

27:38
their stance right now is they are

27:39
drafting rules not just in the united

27:42
states but in coordination with other

27:44
governments

27:44
of course so that they are going to be

27:47
able to find

27:48
report and you are going to be due taxes

27:52
on in and there are some instances now

27:55
i'm not a cpa

27:56
but there are cases now where because of

27:59
the complex nature of

28:01
of crypto currencies even if you haven't

28:03
liquidated it

28:05
you can have tax bills due on it under

28:07
some of the legislation that's being

28:09
proven

28:09
this is going to get interesting because

28:11
and a good friend of mine that

28:13
is kind of the head analyst for a group

28:15
called the palm beach letter

28:16
his name's tika tawari um he shot me an

28:19
email the other day and he he's

28:21
calling for a 500 000 target on bitcoin

28:23
now

28:24
to tica's credit you know five six years

28:27
ago he's

28:27
he was telling people to buy you know

28:29
bitcoin at

28:30
100 bucks so he he has been kind of

28:32
right on it but

28:33
i think he's if he's right on that then

28:36
then

28:36
wow but the taxation of it

28:40
is all the irs cares about it's all the

28:41
government cares about

28:43
and eventually they're this is going to

28:45
get taxed and i think what's going to

28:47
actually drive

28:48
bitcoin down is when they figure out how

28:50
to tax it do you agree with me

28:52
yes and it will be with the deficits

28:55
we're running in the country they're

28:56
looking for revenue everywhere

28:58
and with absolutely bitcoin and the

29:01
acceptance of bitcoin of

29:02
some established institutions there's no

29:06
way the irs is going to leave that tax

29:08
revenue on the table

29:10
absolutely zero chance no

29:13
there if there was ever a pavlov's dog

29:16
all you people know the pavlov's dog

29:17
theory where they

29:18
you know you train the dog and then it

29:20
and it salivates irs

29:22
is salivating they are they are dripping

29:25
from the mouth

29:26
here on the taxation of crypto across

29:29
the board

29:29
five what are there five thousand

29:31
cryptocurrencies right now oh there are

29:33
there's so many yeah

29:34
stan if i may go back to the the self

29:36
custodian director yes

29:38
ties into bitcoin and i'm not going to

29:40
mention any specifics but if you watch

29:42
tv you'll recognize it okay a lot of

29:44
very

29:45
reputable financial shows new shows

29:48
listen to the commercials what they're

29:50
touting now i heard one today on the

29:52
major news network and he can they can

29:54
they can figure out who it was are you

29:57
tired of stock market volatility

30:00
would you like income producing real

30:02
estate guaranteed

30:03
10 returns i saw that no with no

30:06
tenant problems contact us to show us

30:09
how we can put this in your ira

30:11
i went and looked up the name the person

30:15
that was sponsoring this

30:17
was completely covered with complaints

30:20
had been charged with the sec have been

30:22
charged with the state of massachusetts

30:24
nonetheless there it is legitimately

30:28
put on for a self-custodian ira on a

30:30
major news show

30:32
so the other thing i want to mention

30:33
about protecting your money

30:35
with the exception of stan the annuity

30:37
man just because

30:39
it is on the news because it's on tv

30:42
doesn't necessarily mean it's true or

30:45
legitimate

30:45
no it's and and once again if it sounds

30:48
too good to be true it is every single

30:50
time when you hear ten percent

30:52
i mean if you hear eight percent or

30:53
seven i mean

30:55
the money is risk the money is at risk

30:57
when you're looking at those type of

30:59
yields and

31:00
they are what what makes me mad about

31:02
that

31:03
yes there's they can buy ads and run ads

31:05
and do that but they're targeting

31:07
stupid people they are now stupid people

31:10
doesn't mean that they're not educated

31:11
some of the stupidest people in the

31:13
world

31:14
are really educated and rich i mean

31:16
ponzi scheme people go after doctors and

31:18
lawyers

31:18
no offense to doctors and lawyers but

31:20
that's documented that's not me making

31:21
it up

31:22
they go after people that think they're

31:24
smarter than the next guy

31:25
because it's easier to convince them

31:27
that this is really going to happen

31:29
and you know ponzi schemes happen you

31:32
know one to five of them the

31:33
fbi fines per week you just don't hear

31:35
about them because most ponzi schemes

31:37
are in the one to five million range

31:40
said most ponzi schemes illegitimate

31:42
investments are spread by what's called

31:44
infinite affinity fraud meaning doctors

31:47
that are all in the same hospital

31:49
churches members churches charity people

31:52
churches yeah because people start

31:54
talking hey let me tell you about this

31:56
thing i'm getting 10

31:58
well i want to hear about that so it

32:00
spreads through

32:01
affinity groups so be careful that's

32:04
another area to be careful of

32:06
yeah just because your best friend

32:08
bought it don't doesn't mean you need to

32:09
buy it i got a call the other day from a

32:11
person that

32:12
their their their bible study group was

32:15
talking about investments i'm like y'all

32:16
need to start talking about the bible

32:17
and i

32:18
and i you know i was looking for the

32:19
lightning strike at that point but

32:21
um you just have to be you have to be

32:24
careful

32:25
talk about oh and talk about taxes i

32:27
know that um

32:28
that kind of plays into the

32:30
self-directed that's that's a

32:32
offshoot of that um you had you talked

32:35
to me other day and it was really

32:36
interesting what you were saying

32:38
taxes first off what's the greatest

32:40
expense in your life even including your

32:42
house for most people it's taxes

32:44
my daughters that's right weddings

32:48
outside of weddings the

32:52
taxes are one of the most biggest

32:53
financial liabilities

32:55
but more importantly they really affect

32:57
your investment return

32:58
particularly as you're trying to

32:59
compound to create wealth for retirement

33:02
so there's income under new proposals

33:06
that could be taxed as much as

33:07
48 depending on the rate you live in

33:11
then there's tax deferred and

33:15
tax deferred is people and my point is i

33:18
think there's confusion people say well

33:20
you don't have to pay any taxes it's

33:21
deferred

33:22
well it grows and when you pay it you

33:24
have to pay it as ordinary income rates

33:27
on the appreciated amount so don't

33:29
confuse

33:30
long-term capital gains which is where

33:33
you under current rule you hold it for

33:35
a year and you either pay 15 20 or 23

33:39
percent

33:40
on the gains and you're done with it

33:43
versus tax deferred where 100 000

33:46
grows to 200 and when you take it out to

33:48
live on it you pay

33:50
ordinary income taxes at 28 30 43

33:54
so don't confuse capital gains

33:57
with tax deferred don't confuse ordinary

34:00
income with tax-free

34:02
really the things that are tax-free are

34:04
going to be municipal bonds

34:06
and this isn't investment advice it's

34:07
just educationalists and correct

34:10
getting your money back return of

34:11
principal yeah and municipal bonds

34:14
interesting you brought that up because

34:15
back in the day when we were at morgan

34:17
stanley

34:18
um back then the the individual investor

34:20
could actually go buy

34:21
really good muni bond paper triple a

34:24
triple a insured but boy the

34:26
institutions have

34:27
swiped all that up what's since i'm out

34:30
of that

34:31
side of the the world oh and what's the

34:35
can people buy good investment by bond

34:37
paper

34:38
or a muni bond paper they can buy safe

34:41
high quality municipal bond paper the

34:44
problem is the rates are going to be

34:46
one two and two and a half percent right

34:49
for as long as twenty and thirty years

34:52
you're likely

34:53
to get two percent tax free ouch the

34:56
issue becomes what we call

34:57
interest rate risk if interest rates go

34:59
up and you try to sell your municipal

35:02
bond

35:03
then you'll have a capital loss because

35:06
as interest rates as we all know

35:08
if you can see the seesaw effect yeah

35:10
for the people on podcast he's doing

35:12
kind of a seesaw he looks like he's

35:13
flying

35:14
but uh but yeah you know i'm not flying

35:17
no i know that you're gravitationally

35:19
challenged i understand that

35:21
so um rates go up your principle of a

35:24
fixed investor

35:25
income investment goes down right

35:29
longer term is the more that the longer

35:31
that seesaw lever is and the more it

35:33
goes up and down

35:34
right the other thing i want to bring

35:35
about municipal bonds remember we

35:37
started off the

35:38
free paradigm people think they're

35:39
buying things for free right

35:41
and everybody i bet there's

35:44
thousands of the people who bought this

35:46
if someone's called up and bought a

35:47
state of florida municipal bond

35:49
but then they buy it and the first time

35:51
they get their statement they pay ten

35:52
thousand dollars for it and it's worth

35:54
ninety seven thousand ninety seven

35:56
yeah e their bonds have when you buy a

35:59
bond in the secondary market which is

36:01
how most of them are bought

36:02
yeah talk about those markups they are

36:05
two to three

36:06
typically one two to three percent

36:08
markups to buy them

36:09
and who's marking those up the dealer

36:12
that you're buying it from the trading

36:14
desk the bond

36:16
so they are marking that bond up one

36:20
two sometimes three percent

36:24
for the house to make money and for the

36:26
broker to make money

36:27
and that's marked up and built into your

36:31
price

36:32
and then when you get ready to sell it

36:34
they mark it down

36:36
it's like buying retail and wholesale

36:38
they might mark it down one or two

36:40
percent more so you pin ten thousand

36:42
dollars in a municipal bond

36:44
what you actually are buying is a nine

36:46
thousand five hundred dollar bond with a

36:48
five percent markup

36:49
the only way to get around that is to

36:51
buy a new issue bond one that

36:54
isn't in the secondary market you buy it

36:56
it

36:57
comes out new to the market and that's

36:59
what i was talking about

37:00
you had told me a while back that the

37:02
investment banks and the private

37:04
equity firms are literally going in and

37:06
buying the whole allotment

37:07
correct a good issue they come in they

37:09
don't even go through the bond rating

37:10
they just come in and do their own due

37:11
diligence and buy the whole

37:12
and by the whole water bond issue right

37:17
um is there still what we used to call

37:20
green mailing like pumping a stock up

37:22
and

37:22
getting ahead of it if you're uh one of

37:24
these people on the i'm assuming the

37:26
internet is

37:27
is ripe with stock pumping and

37:30
and front running green mail however you

37:32
want to

37:34
is that still happening you know i think

37:35
it's changed

37:38
first off i want to be i want to be

37:40
truly i want to be

37:42
up front with you guys i'm sort of out

37:43
of that world these days uh when

37:45
you mean yeah you you man you're you're

37:47
a legit

37:48
high high-level money managers i know

37:50
you don't get down in the weeds with

37:51
these idiots but

37:52
people do listen to them so he i think

37:55
it shifted it shifted from

37:58
literally what was the martin the guy

38:00
that the boiler room guys

38:02
yeah the movie about yeah

38:05
blinder robinson yeah yeah they pump the

38:08
stocks up and turn around and sell them

38:10
to someone else i'm sure that goes on

38:12
but now

38:13
the pump and up stuff is done in

38:15
internet forums

38:16
right the game stops yes where you get

38:19
guys in rooms

38:21
talking up stocks on the internet forums

38:24
and then they go to the robin hoods

38:26
and trade for once again free

38:30
sure once again even though that

38:33
brokerage firm may be selling that

38:36
transaction trade

38:38
to the very person at the hedge fund

38:40
that's selling it

38:43
so people just need to keep it simple i

38:46
know that's what sets you apart from

38:48
everybody i really know in this space i

38:50
know a couple more that are that have a

38:52
simplistic approach but yours is very

38:56
very simple maybe that comes from the

38:57
fact that we both played college sports

38:59
and we had to

39:00
interact with our teammates and coaches

39:02
and you can't be too complex with them

39:05
but uh i do think it carries over

39:07
especially you know

39:09
with my my stuff is making annuity

39:11
simple that's on my website

39:13
on you on your stuff it's making

39:16
investments simple

39:17
um and and i don't want to say financial

39:20
planning because

39:21
you know me and you were talking about

39:22
that recently the financial planning was

39:25
thrown around

39:28
incorrectly and it's misleading when

39:31
people say i'm a financial planner

39:33
i mean give me a break go off on that

39:36
topic for a second factually of course

39:39
real financial planning is both

39:42
time-consuming

39:44
thorough and when i say complicated

39:47
in depth it takes time it takes effort

39:51
it takes talent to do

39:53
and interpret the results and then

39:55
implement the results

39:56
unfortunately financial planning free

39:59
financial planning i hate that

40:01
i'm sorry but financial planning is

40:03
being and they're very simplistic

40:05
versions of right little models that you

40:07
frank

40:08
could do on your phone app and the glue

40:11
a financial plan and

40:12
guess what you usually end up needing

40:14
after about doing the financial planning

40:16
some product right usually it's a

40:18
variable annuity

40:19
oh nothing against my friends in the

40:23
variable annuity world i don't

40:25
disclaimer i do not sell variable

40:26
annuities i sell the all the other fixed

40:29
principal protected transfer risk

40:31
products but

40:32
no offense to variable annuity guys out

40:34
there you can send your angry emails to

40:36
me like you always do

40:38
but variable annuities is a bunch of

40:40
mutual funds wrapped in a life insurance

40:42
wrapper with a lifetime in

40:43
lifetime fee for life of the policy

40:47
that's great but you can do that better

40:49
with either

40:50
someone who manages your money that

40:52
you're paying a fee to and let me get to

40:54
that point

40:55
once again going to the to the free you

40:58
don't go to the doctor

41:00
and expect that that doctor surgeon

41:03
whoever

41:04
to not charge you if you're getting

41:07
legitimate

41:09
financial advice from a professional

41:10
with decades of experience you're going

41:12
to pay them and it's going to be worth

41:14
every penny in most cases i know that

41:16
drives you crazy

41:17
i know that drives me crazy but this

41:20
free

41:21
stuff that's out there people need to

41:24
understand

41:25
that to get quality you have to pay for

41:28
quality

41:30
so a financial plan will take 10 hours

41:32
to put together a really

41:34
any a real one yeah real one name anyone

41:37
that can

41:38
have a good professional do a 10 hours

41:41
worth of work

41:42
for free unless it's too much

41:46
unless they're committing time to their

41:47
charity and these aren't charity events

41:49
my point is if a financial plan is free

41:52
it comes with strings

41:55
a real financial plan is implemented

41:58
with it

41:58
with investment with with

42:02
asset allocation tax planning estate

42:05
planning

42:06
risk management and they're all

42:08
coordinated holistically together and

42:11
the plan

42:11
is the roadmap but they're usually

42:13
wrapped together and they

42:15
they are not and cannot be free

42:20
one other thing i want to talk to you

42:22
about before i go into kind of a more

42:23
broader

42:24
um approach to the markets is anytime

42:26
that markets

42:27
are you know

42:30
raging bull market but the interest

42:32
rates are really really low

42:34
and you have 10 000 baby boomers hitting

42:36
65 every day looking for guarantees

42:38
that's when the reits and the preferred

42:40
stock pitches start coming up

42:42
can you explain to people reits and

42:44
preferred stock because they have these

42:45
high coupons on them

42:47
explain why they're high and why it

42:50
might not be what you think it is

42:52
okay well first off let's do the

42:53
preferred stock for a minute because

42:55
reits i'm going to address separately

42:57
because it's a tad more complicated

42:59
okay remember we had the conversation

43:01
moments ago about a

43:03
bonds interest rate risk

43:06
that is how much it goes up and down

43:08
when interest rates change

43:09
is directly tied to how long

43:13
term the bond is if it's let me

43:16
think of it this way if everybody out

43:18
here you bought a two percent bond for

43:20
30 years

43:21
and five years from now you can go out

43:24
to the bank and buy one for five percent

43:26
why would anybody want your two percent

43:28
bond when they can go get five percent

43:31
so your price is reflected to that a

43:33
preferred stock

43:35
is a type of a dead instrument

43:38
tech not like a bond with no maturity

43:42
or 40 or 50-year materials right so

43:46
it has trem it can have tremendous

43:49
interest rate risk

43:51
and as such has

43:54
higher interest rate coupons

43:57
but only because you're buying a 50-year

44:00
obligation essentially so that's number

44:04
one reits

44:05
the big abu the big issue with reits

44:08
today according to the sec

44:10
and finra are what are these called

44:12
non-publicly traded

44:14
non-registered reits real estate

44:17
investment trusts

44:18
real estate trusts that are not

44:21
organized

44:22
companies trading on the markets they're

44:24
private

44:25
unregistered securities so if the word

44:28
private unregistered

44:29
gives you pause it should

44:33
exactly it should and that coordinate

44:35
there was an again a warning

44:37
issued by by the national association of

44:41
securities advisers of the coordination

44:42
with fenris saying

44:44
watch out for abuses many of the abuses

44:47
are happening

44:48
with non-registered private reits

44:52
i contrast that to publicly traded reits

44:56
which are nothing more than a form of

44:58
investment trust

45:00
that trades like a stock on the new york

45:01
stock exchange or nasdaq

45:03
and they hold real estate they may hold

45:05
apartments they may hold

45:08
malls they may hold houses the new thing

45:11
is a lot of them hold

45:12
storage units and hold a digital

45:15
towers but there are real estate

45:19
trusts that trade on the market

45:22
and those are less i'll say problematic

45:26
less prone to abuses

45:29
than are these private

45:33
non-registered reits that are popping up

45:35
everywhere but once again i think we can

45:37
look at all of the stuff

45:38
and annuities included if that if that

45:40
yield number looks way too high

45:43
there's an asterisk beside it needs to

45:45
be explained it sounds too good to be

45:47
true it is every single time

45:49
you know i would just encourage you to

45:50
contact owen uh and his team at trumpw

45:53
dot com schrumpw dot com

45:57
and talk to him you'll get him on the

45:58
phone tell them your situation

46:00
he's brutally honest if i'm the walking

46:02
middle finger of annuity truth he's

46:04
he's a he's not a walking middle finger

46:06
he's nicer than i am but he's he's

46:07
brutally factual let's just put it like

46:09
that

46:10
and i think the older you get in this

46:11
business the longer you've done it

46:13
there's no time there's no reason to

46:14
tiptoe you know we're going to tell you

46:16
if it doesn't make sense we're going to

46:17
tell you if you're off base we're going

46:18
to tell you if it's right

46:19
we're going to tell you if you're

46:20
putting too much money into something um

46:23
you know and i think people understand

46:24
that they can get that that flavor from

46:26
us

46:27
as well oh and this covert thing is is

46:29
kind of akin to world war three

46:32
um to me uh if you look back at world

46:34
war ii we really haven't printed money

46:36
like this since world war ii

46:38
um and it the markets love

46:41
low interest rates i always tell people

46:43
you know the 10-year treasury

46:44
is low to us but around the world is not

46:46
low you know and i think these are

46:48
probably normal interest rates going for

46:51
normal levels and they could go lower i

46:52
hope they don't

46:54
um but what you're at the time of this

46:55
taping what's your take on markets here

46:58
are you i know you're always risk averse

47:01
and you're always looking at that but

47:04
we're in blue water as you always say

47:06
um what's your take here i'm going to

47:10
quote

47:11
stan you and i forever have followed a

47:13
very smart man who won't mind

47:14
me saying good driving jeremy at wharton

47:18
jeremy comment is twofold and this

47:21
is a broad economic comment from a very

47:24
noted man that i have a lot of respect

47:26
for so

47:27
take that for what it is he says like no

47:30
time

47:31
in history since world war ii have we

47:34
had this kind of liquidity

47:36
hit the market counting what the fed

47:39
does

47:40
counting what the government does we're

47:41
looking at 10 trillion dollars

47:44
that's why housing prices that you know

47:46
house sells in a day in most

47:48
neighborhoods in america

47:50
have you note have you i'm getting calls

47:52
on used cars because the dealers want to

47:54
buy them back at a profit

47:56
because used cars have gone up

47:59
um everything is going up because

48:02
there's so

48:03
much when i say liquidity i'm talking

48:05
about money

48:06
money in people's pockets there's so

48:08
much money out there and they're

48:09
spending it and it's

48:11
chasing up prices of goods with that

48:14
includes

48:15
financial instruments so there's

48:18
trillions of dollars

48:20
chasing money and that's driving up

48:22
stock

48:23
prices that money's not going away it's

48:25
there it's in the market they're not

48:27
taking it away

48:28
so that's what's supporting the market

48:30
right now his greater concern

48:32
when 12 24 and 36 months down the road

48:37
is the short-term effects of all this

48:40
liquidity creating

48:41
inflation you mentioned very few

48:43
advisors have seen

48:45
fair markets well the last bear market

48:47
was 10 years ago the last inflation was

48:49
30 yep and very few people

48:53
fortunately have seen inflation it's

48:55
real

48:56
it's destructive and it is a concern

49:00
so that is the damocles sword hanging

49:02
over many markets is what is the effect

49:05
is the fed going to be able to walk this

49:06
balance sheet of raising interest rates

49:08
to keep inflation incorrect without

49:10
hurting the overall stock market

49:13
right now there's liquidity out there

49:14
there's money chasing and that's being

49:16
reflected in the markets

49:18
how that plays out is is going to be

49:21
very interesting to see

49:22
well and also too how the politicians

49:24
are going to handle

49:25
the looks like the covid

49:29
rearing its ugly head ongoing for the

49:31
rest of our lives

49:32
and how they play that from a fear

49:34
standpoint and how that affects business

49:37
obviously um coming out of covet it was

49:39
easy to predict that earnings were going

49:41
to be good just because they were you

49:42
know people were getting back up and

49:44
running

49:45
but um i think a lot of people use their

49:48
stimulus money

49:48
it's where a consumer consumer economy

49:51
so they're using their money to buy

49:52
things

49:53
eventually that's going to run out

49:55
people are going to have to go back to

49:56
work reality is going to have to set

49:58
in will reality set into the markets in

50:01
your opinion do you think they

50:02
they will stabilize or will there be

50:04
some tough times ahead

50:06
i'm going to give you a draw upon a

50:07
historical reference here looks like

50:10
as you can understand i'm sure your

50:11
audience can understand i can't go out

50:13
here if i don't know everybody's

50:14
specific

50:15
sure situation and make make blanket

50:18
recommendations i'm going to give you a

50:19
quick

50:21
market history lesson because you'll

50:23
turn on

50:24
the news a lot of people say the

50:25
pheasant will raise interest rates the

50:26
market's going to go to hades and hand

50:28
basket and that's not usually the case

50:30
it makes sense when you hear the reason

50:32
the fed raises interest rates why

50:35
because the markets are overheating

50:37
the economy is overheating rather when

50:39
the economy is overheating what does

50:40
earnings do

50:42
companies rate prices so when the

50:44
economy is overheating

50:46
at least for now earnings of businesses

50:49
are going up also

50:51
and the market is a reflection of

50:52
dividends and growing earnings

50:55
so why is the fed raising interest rates

50:58
is to slow down the economy

50:59
but as they raise interest rates sure it

51:02
may sell off at first but then

51:04
eventually

51:05
it continues to go up because the

51:07
economy is still

51:08
growing then there's a point they always

51:10
go too far

51:12
they there's never been a case in

51:13
history where they hit it just right so

51:15
they raise interest rates

51:16
and they stall out the economy raising

51:20
interest rates stalls capital

51:22
investment it people start pulling back

51:24
in the economy draws

51:26
and then they stop interest raising

51:28
interest rates that's when recessions

51:30
usually happen

51:32
is at that point when they stop raising

51:34
interest rates

51:35
that's when recessions happen and as we

51:39
all know

51:40
bear markets often follow recessions

51:43
oh and tell people about the process at

51:46
shrumpw.com tell them about

51:48
how you guys differentiate yourself from

51:51
from the noise out there why why will

51:54
people feel comfortable with with owen

51:56
and his team

51:57
well first off we are fiduciaries

52:00
strictest strict to the law we work for

52:04
clients best interest by law and sign of

52:06
fiduciary pledge that we do this

52:08
our business technically we call it

52:10
wealth management google wealth

52:12
management there's

52:13
10 000 people that say wealth managers

52:15
right 93

52:17
of them as a study pay attention only to

52:20
investments

52:21
they do investment consulting nothing

52:23
wrong with that they're quite good at it

52:25
but to us wealth management means

52:27
investment consulting

52:28
tax minimization risk management

52:32
estate planning and making sure your

52:34
wills and your directives are in place

52:36
and if you're so charitably inclined or

52:38
if you have a business

52:40
business planning so whereas

52:43
to us first and foremost we're strict

52:46
fiduciary fee-based advisors no

52:48
commissions we have to work for clients

52:49
best interest

52:51
we look at your entire financial

52:52
condition situation

52:54
that not just includes investment

52:57
consulting but includes lowering your

52:59
taxes making sure you pass things on to

53:01
your heirs safely

53:02
and all your assets are protected by

53:04
working with really smart people like

53:06
stan the annuity man

53:08
in the risk management area i mean i

53:10
would encourage everyone that's

53:11
listening and viewing this

53:12
to at least give give them a call you

53:14
know we'll have all of his contact

53:16
information

53:16
on the site at the annuityman.com any

53:19
last words of wisdom mr schrum

53:21
that's non-basketball or guitar oriented

53:25
i like top basketball right now but

53:28
i want to hearken back to what you said

53:31
for your audience

53:32
and first and foremost if it looks too

53:35
good to be true

53:36
it is it is not everybody's

53:39
forthright out there and secondly

53:43
with the power of investment and power

53:45
of

53:46
compounding people can have

53:49
a successful retirement by investing

53:52
well

53:52
saving well investing well being doing

53:55
it conservatively

53:57
and doing it smart and that's beautiful

54:01
that's no that is absolutely the truth

54:04
um

54:05
owen you're not going to uh this isn't

54:07
your last rodeo with us i mean we're

54:09
going to bring

54:10
you back on especially if markets get

54:12
volatile and crazy

54:14
and any time you feel like you want to

54:16
to uh

54:18
give the people your wisdom i really do

54:20
appreciate you joining us and for

54:21
everyone out there i appreciate you

54:22
joining fun with annuities

54:24
the number one annuity podcast on the

54:26
planet man is it growing it's been a

54:28
surprise and i really appreciate every

54:30
one of you out there that's listening

54:32
and that's viewing us on the fun with

54:33
annuities youtube channel

54:35
and we will see you next week

54:42
thanks for listening to fun with

54:44
annuities please hit the subscribe

54:46
button and make sure to go to my site

54:48
at the annuityman.com where you can run

54:51
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54:52
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54:55
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54:56
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55:01
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55:04
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55:06
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55:07
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55:10
schedule a one-on-one call with me

55:12
stan the annuity man so we can have a

55:14
full discussion

55:16
of your specific situation it will be

55:18
the best

55:19
brutally factual and truthful advice you

55:22
will ever get and that's one guarantee

55:24
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so join me next time for the number one

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55:36
[Music]