066 Dana Anspach: Juicing Your Retirement Plan

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welcome to

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fun with annuities with your host me

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stan

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the annuity man america's annuity agent

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can annuities be fun

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can contractual guarantees be fun

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absolutely they can

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find out the brutal facts about

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annuities with no sales pitches or high

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pressure nonsense

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just the brutal and factual annuity

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truth which is all you need to hear

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let's have some fun with annuities and

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let's have that fun

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start right now

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[Music]

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welcome everyone to fun with annuities

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the number one annuity podcast on the

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planet i'm your host stan the annuity

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man america's annuity agent licensed in

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all 50

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states yeah that's me today we have a

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great

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guest i'm so excited she's joined the

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program

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but before i just throw the ball to her

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and let her run with it

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i've got to tell you a little bit about

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her her name is dana onspock and she has

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a financial advice firm called

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sensible money you can go to their site

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at www.sensiblemoney

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she founded it in 2011 but she's been in

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the business a long time before that

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and she does all kinds of things on that

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if you go to the web of the

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the site she has webinars she has you

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know you can do a complimentary

1:25
consultation she has blogs i mean

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there's a lot

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there there's a lot to download once

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again sensiblemoney.com

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and i'll have it on my site as you know

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welcome to everyone listening to all the

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podcast platforms and also the people on

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the fun with annuities youtube channel

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and as you know standing new man youtube

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channel is a big monster as well with

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all kinds of videos

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uh on annuities now as i said dana

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founded

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sensible money and it is one of the

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nation's leading

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experts on retirement planning she is

1:56
herself and also her team

1:58
but she also focuses on what's called

2:01
decumulation and we're going to talk

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about that

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she's been quoted by every financial

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publication on the planet as you can

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well imagine

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she's recognized by investopedia as one

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of the top 100 financial advisors i

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think they're wrong she's top 10

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and i don't know who the other nine are

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um and this award is given to

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those who are making like huge

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contributions to financial

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education she has one of the best books

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on retirement i've ever read it's called

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control your retirement destiny

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and once again if you go to

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sensiblemoney.com you can download the

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first

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chapter um she also has a podcast

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that you can find on apple spotify

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itunes etc

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control your retirement destiny this is

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the one i really like in listen up

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people

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she has an online course called how to

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plan the perfect retirement

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it can be found at the

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thegreatcourses.com

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and i think that is fantastic now let's

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talk a little bit about dana's

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personal life she rides a harley

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davidson my

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my research team tells me it's a soft

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tail slim i have no idea what that means

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but i'm sure it's cool

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um she was born in iowa but here's where

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dana and i the only thing that i

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disagree with dana on is

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she's a gator she went to the university

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of florida i have no idea

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how that even happened i'm sure it was a

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full scholarship

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for her brain but um hey dana onspot

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welcome to

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fun with annuities it is great to be

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here stan you make me sound

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so amazing thank you you are amazing

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you're fantastic

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let's jump right in dana on spock

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because the people are leaning in

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waiting to hear this

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now when i say the word juicing i'm not

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talking about me

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drinking juice which i do dana has come

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up with something called

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juicing your retirement money and it's a

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strategy that she uses with clients

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and on her site there's two types of

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juicing methods

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but i think this is fantastic um dana

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i'm going to throw the ball to you let's

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talk retirement juicing tell us what

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that

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is yeah absolutely so many many years

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ago i was having breakfast at

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this place called butterfields i'm here

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in scottsdale arizona and

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they serve fresh squeezed orange juice

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and you watch the oranges roll down this

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metal contraption

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and into the machine and out comes the

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most delicious juice

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right and i had been making homemade

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margaritas at home the weekend before

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you're squeezing i use fresh oranges in

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my margaritas and

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squeezing them and there was always

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extra juice left over and the rinds and

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you know i i watched those oranges roll

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through the machine and i thought oh my

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gosh i wonder how much

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extra juice they get out of each orange

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because they have the right equipment

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and

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this light bulb went on and i was like

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that is what we do for clients

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with the right planning process and what

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i mean by that is not picking the right

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investments not

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finding the right stock or evaluating

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market trends

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but there is so much juice you can

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squeeze

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out of a retirement income plan by doing

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things in the right order

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by planning on when and how you take

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social security by

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coordinating that with your spouse

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rather than making independent decisions

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by deciding whether you should add an

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annuity into your plan

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by tax optimization not just making your

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investment portfolio tax efficient but

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really figuring out when you should draw

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out of which type of account whether you

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should use roth conversions

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and so all of those things are

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equivalent

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in some cases to adding hundreds of

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thousands of dollars to your net worth

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and so that is the process

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that we trademarked and refer to

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as juicing love it

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i mean i'm glad you didn't call

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squeezing oil from a brick

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because that wouldn't have worked um

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but i i love the concept and as i you

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were explaining i'm thinking about

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when i grew up in north carolina in the

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middle of nowhere and there was this

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drug store and they sold what was called

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orange aids and they

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they squeezed the juice they had this

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machine it got every single thing out

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i'm like

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i know exactly what you're talking about

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but in essence

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that's what retirees need to do right

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because you know they get to chapter two

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of their life

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and there's not as much money coming in

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as because they're not working or

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whatever

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you have to maximize right you have to

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maximize and a lot of research shows

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that

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many retirees actually have more wealth

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at the end of retirement than when they

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started

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retirement and i think a lot of that

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there's this fear

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of oh my gosh you know i i people

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routinely tell me now dana you know you

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know i'm not going back to work and

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it makes me chuckle i see yes that's

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what we do we only work with people

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transitioning into retirement

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we are very clear on how solid your

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retirement income plan has to be

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in order for you to make that decision

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and truly exit the workforce

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and so yes we get that you have to live

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off of this your your acorns you have to

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live off of them the rest of your life

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and it's super scary and so i think

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when people don't have that planning

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process and it's not

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thoroughly tested they had to hang on to

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all their acorns

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and so for us the process is not only

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about maximizing what you have but

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also i want to say enjoying it at a

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reasonable pace and what i mean by

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reasonable pace is

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you know nobody wants to go out and just

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spend money for the sake of spending and

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a lot of retirees

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have wealth and savings because they

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were pretty thrifty to start with which

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is

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great but you also don't want to

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you know be so thrifty that you end up

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with all this wealth and

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you can't take it with you and all these

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experiences you didn't have

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and so when you have this process that

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helps show you that yes

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you know you could afford to gift to the

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children or

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help them out with a down payment or

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help them with tuition

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or take the whole family to disneyland

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i've had clients do that or

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take the whole family on alaska cruise

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or you know small little things have a

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house cleaner come in

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as your body aches and it's getting

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harder to do the things around the home

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having someone help with the lawn care

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simple things that make your life a

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little easier but you're afraid to do

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that if you're afraid of running out of

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money

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and when you have this process that's

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quantifiable

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and measurable and has set metrics that

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we look at

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it it helps bring that peace of mind

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that yes i could afford to do that

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and it would not jeopardize the 80 year

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old me or the 90 year old me

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that person will still have enough and

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be okay and that's what we love about

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our process is that peace of mind it

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brings to

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allow people to you know not necessarily

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splurge on useless things but just those

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those small little extras that can make

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a difference in life

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yeah it's it's about lifestyle in

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chapter two i always tell people that

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you know there's 10 10 000 baby boomers

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hitting the age of 65

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every single day i mean they're they

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want to know that they can live the

8:56
lifestyle that they worked hard

8:58
and scrimped and saved and sacrificed

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but now they're there at the finish line

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and they need to achieve that

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let's talk about the process a little

9:06
bit with sensible money i want people to

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understand

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you know how you guys work and you have

9:11
a you have a great team i've been to her

9:13
offices in scottsdale fantastic team

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they're all on the same wavelength as

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dana so you know dana is a very calm

9:21
calming effect if you're looking for

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just kind of a a mad smart

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chill advisor i mean that's her she is

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that person that can

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that can guide you through retirement

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and i've referred so many people to her

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because of that because that's the

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personality that i think a lot of people

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need

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um guiding them in retirement so they go

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to sensiblemoney.com and by the way for

9:41
everyone sensible money is one word okay

9:43
so sensiblemoney.com

9:45
they go there and they sign up for the

9:46
free consultation i thought that was

9:48
nice of you to provide that considering

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who you are

9:51
so they do the consultation can you walk

9:53
people through what that

9:54
what that entails yeah so you know

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there's a

9:58
forum online it's a secure web form we

10:00
intentionally don't ask for any

10:02
personal information for example we ask

10:04
for your age not your date of birth

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so just to give us some general

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information but it's a html secure form

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that comes to us

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and then we set up that introductory

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meeting it's typically not with me

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i am primarily focused on managing the

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team so it's one with one of our

10:19
planners who is both a certified

10:21
financial planner and holds a secondary

10:23
designation

10:24
that of a retirement management advisor

10:27
and if we get to talk about that in a

10:29
little bit that would be great

10:30
uh that designation held this very

10:32
special place in my heart

10:34
and has really helped us build our our

10:36
entire if you want to segue right there

10:37
and talk about that we'll come back

10:39
let's talk about that specific

10:41
designation

10:42
and why that's important in combination

10:44
with the cfp

10:46
absolutely so the cfp we would think of

10:48
as like a bachelor's degree

10:50
and the rma designation like getting

10:52
your masters in retirement decumulation

10:56
meaning

10:56
what are all of the risk factors that

10:58
someone now at that point in time where

11:00
they're spending

11:01
their money they need to live off of

11:03
this nest egg for the rest of their life

11:05
what are all of those factors

11:07
and they are different things and back

11:09
in 2010

11:11
i was seeking additional information on

11:14
this decumulation phase and

11:16
came across this conference that was

11:17
being held at the morningstar offices in

11:19
chicago

11:20
and i fell upon the rma designation was

11:24
in the very first class to acquire the

11:26
designation in 2010 what i fell in love

11:28
with was

11:29
it was a room full of phds and mbas and

11:32
people

11:33
not sales people i had been to a lot of

11:35
conferences that were about

11:36
selling product but these people were

11:39
really trying to solve this problem of

11:41
how do we

11:42
make people's money last and how

11:44
different it is

11:45
in the accumulation phase and the type

11:47
of analytical

11:48
testing that has to happen to make sure

11:51
a plan is going to work

11:53
and it just it just spoke to me i was

11:55
like this is it

11:56
and my entire book was based on the

11:58
principles that i learned in the rma

12:00
designation because i came out of that

12:02
going you know what

12:03
the industry isn't doing it right

12:05
they're still so

12:06
focused on accumulating assets which is

12:09
relatively easy

12:10
compared to the math problem you have to

12:12
solve when you start drawing money out

12:15
and so it was you know an inspiration to

12:18
me

12:18
all of our planners in order to work

12:20
with retirees that

12:22
are getting ready or suit or near

12:24
retirement they have to

12:26
get the rma designation we actually pay

12:28
for them to acquire it so we think it's

12:29
super valuable

12:30
it's a way of thinking about the problem

12:33
and that way of thinking is what we

12:35
apply throughout

12:36
our entire planning process so you're

12:39
sitting down with the client the initial

12:40
consultation they're giving you

12:42
obviously confidential information

12:43
not detail but everything i mean you

12:45
don't share it or or sell it or anything

12:47
like that

12:48
but they're going to give you that and

12:50
then from there what happens yeah so we

12:52
so part of what we do in that

12:54
introductory meeting is explain our

12:56
process so

12:57
when you hire us it is a series of

13:00
strategy meetings that we engage in

13:03
and at each strategy meeting we run one

13:06
of

13:06
three different what we call retirement

13:08
readiness tests

13:10
so the very first meeting it is

13:13
really around does your plan work from a

13:16
30

13:17
000 foot view you have this much

13:20
assets now and this much future income

13:22
coming in from social security rental

13:24
annuities deferred comp stock options

13:26
whatever it may be we're projecting all

13:28
of that out in a timeline format along

13:30
with your projected retirement expenses

13:32
including health healthcare and adding

13:33
inflation and you know maybe future home

13:36
purchases whatever it might be

13:38
and saying in in big picture terms

13:41
does it work do you have enough to

13:43
retire when you want to retire and

13:45
maintain your lifestyle

13:46
and if it doesn't how do we begin to

13:49
tweak it would you need to work a little

13:50
longer spend a little less

13:52
downsize what are the factors that would

13:54
make it work

13:55
and we try to frame that in terms of

13:57
choices so

13:59
some people will say gosh you know if i

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could downsize and reduce my expenses by

14:05
10 or 20 000 a year are you telling me i

14:06
could retire next year

14:08
done deal right they they are ready to

14:10
be done

14:11
other people would rather work till

14:13
they're 70 or even mid 70s i've

14:15
encountered people who

14:16
you know enjoy it and they want to keep

14:19
contributing they don't want to retire

14:20
but

14:21
they like the peace of mind knowing that

14:24
they could

14:24
so people are very different uh but that

14:27
first meeting helps

14:28
helps bring that into you know what are

14:30
what what kind of

14:31
factors are we working with here in

14:34
strategy two

14:35
and and i will say most financial plans

14:38
that we see particularly anyone's marked

14:40
as free

14:41
or from you know major firms all they do

14:44
is what we do in our strategy one

14:46
meeting is this

14:46
big picture high level oh you have this

14:48
much your probability of success is you

14:51
know

14:51
right it's cookie cutter your process is

14:54
not cookie cutter

14:55
definitely correct correct we start with

14:58
the cookie cutter because it gives us a

15:00
very general it's the foundation

15:01
sure foundation then in strategy two is

15:04
where we get into

15:05
what i call the juicing part where we

15:08
start playing around with factors how do

15:10
we optimize social security

15:12
what is your tax rate now are there

15:14
going to be years where we could realize

15:16
taxes at a zero percent or a lower

15:18
capital gains rate than

15:19
what your current rate is are there

15:21
going to be years where roth conversions

15:23
are going to make sense

15:24
should you be contributing to your roth

15:26
401k

15:27
or your traditional 401k could you be

15:29
contributing more to a deferred

15:31
compensation plan

15:32
uh or less and so and i've had in just

15:36
in the last 12 months cases that came

15:39
back with completely opposite answers on

15:41
that question right there

15:43
one client where we said you know you

15:44
only have two years left you're actually

15:46
contributing too much to your deferred

15:47
comp we need you to ratchet it back

15:49
and another one based on their tax rates

15:51
where we said you could actually up

15:52
yours a little bit

15:54
so yeah we can't answer that question

15:56
without all of the details where we are

15:58
projecting your income

16:00
and your actual you're running your

16:02
income through a 1040 tax calculator so

16:04
that we can see

16:06
exactly what your tax return may look

16:08
like and

16:09
and make decisions to help improve the

16:11
outcome

16:12
so strategy two is where we're digging

16:15
into those things and

16:16
often building custom schedules for

16:18
people that have stock options or

16:20
restricted stock units

16:22
or annuities you know annuities have as

16:25
you know

16:26
all kinds of interesting features where

16:27
the income can kick in later or kick in

16:29
now

16:30
and traditional software doesn't allow

16:33
you to account for these things very

16:35
easily

16:36
so we have to build these custom

16:38
schedules so that it can be treated

16:39
accurately for taxes

16:40
and accurately for cash flow and so

16:43
at strategy two we are running the

16:46
second what we call retirement readiness

16:47
test

16:48
which is a test that works much like a

16:50
pension plan so if any of your listeners

16:52
have

16:53
pension plans they will send you an

16:55
annual fundedness letter

16:56
right you know your plans eighty percent

16:58
funded or

17:00
92 or 71 uh-oh

17:03
and so what that fundedness calculation

17:06
does for a pension plan

17:07
is it looks at all of the future cash

17:10
flows that the pension plan has to

17:12
deliver the paychecks

17:14
and it translates those cash flows into

17:17
a present value what

17:19
dollar amount does the pension plan need

17:21
to have in assets today

17:23
to meet those future obligations well

17:26
we do the same thing at a household

17:28
level for a retiree

17:30
nice we project all their cash flows

17:33
that they're going to need from their

17:34
portfolio

17:35
we take the present value and just like

17:37
a pension plan

17:38
we we calculate your household

17:41
fundedness level

17:42
so that is a you hear about the four

17:45
percent rule where

17:46
you you can withdraw four percent of

17:48
your assets per year but

17:50
in reality spending doesn't work that

17:52
way some years we need to buy a car

17:54
or we have a family situation or a

17:56
vacation and so

17:58
we don't spend the same amount and what

18:00
the fundedness test does is it helps us

18:03
project a lot of these lumpy cash flow

18:05
items

18:06
and say it's like a lifetime four

18:08
percent rule

18:09
over your lifetime right does the amount

18:12
of spending that you

18:13
that we have projected for you makes

18:15
sense based on your assets so we love it

18:18
um it allows us to very easily test

18:21
lumpy items you know people say can i

18:23
buy this second house could i

18:24
afford this car that i want and and we

18:27
can very quickly

18:28
give an answer even though it might mean

18:29
a larger withdrawal in in that single

18:31
year

18:32
and then we move on to strategy three

18:35
which is

18:36
when we start to dig into this the

18:38
construction of the portfolio

18:40
and so we don't get to that till last we

18:43
want to

18:44
optimize someone's plan based on all of

18:46
these other

18:47
non-investment levers and then

18:50
the last thing we look at is now that we

18:52
understand

18:53
the job each account has to do and let

18:56
me take a simple example of a husband

18:58
and wife that might have a 10-year age

19:00
difference

19:01
and their retirement accounts are often

19:04
invested with the same asset allocation

19:07
60 stocks 40 bonds right but we go well

19:10
you know

19:11
the husband is gonna have to start with

19:13
drawing or taking his required minimum

19:15
distributions

19:16
at his age now 72 and the wife won't

19:19
have to start herself 10 years later

19:22
so the job the cash flows those accounts

19:25
have to deliver

19:26
have a very different time frame right

19:28
and so when we get down to that account

19:31
by account level

19:32
it leads to allocating each account

19:36
so that it matches up to the cash flow

19:38
needs it needs to deliver

19:40
and so you might not have each account

19:43
allocated 60 40 or 70 30 or whatever it

19:46
may be

19:46
each one is specifically aligned to the

19:49
particular job that it has to do and

19:52
that can help reduce certain types of

19:54
risks

19:55
that you face when you're drawing out it

19:57
can also allow other accounts like roth

19:59
iras to be

20:00
100 invested in growth where they have

20:03
the opportunity to earn

20:04
or the possibility of earning higher

20:06
returns and and growing in a tax-free

20:09
environment so there's all kinds of

20:10
good things that can happen over long

20:12
time frames when you

20:14
pay attention to all these details and

20:16
make sure that everything lines up

20:18
i know that there's so much more to it

20:20
than that but i want to stop here and i

20:22
want i want to ask everyone listening

20:23
and viewing this

20:24
i want you to think about your current

20:27
advisor

20:28
if you have one or not but let's just

20:29
say you have one are they even in the

20:31
ballpark of being that detail for

20:34
goodness sake one of the things you said

20:36
was was you don't want your retirement

20:38
to be lumpy the only thing you want

20:39
lumpy dana is your oatmeal or your

20:42
mashed potatoes preferably mashed

20:43
potatoes but you don't want your

20:45
retirement to be lumpy

20:47
and what i want to tell people is is

20:49
this process is worth it

20:51
i mean it's like it's a financial

20:52
physical i know that's cliche

20:55
but you have to take this stuff serious

20:57
and one of the reasons i want to dana on

20:58
is for her to explain the process so

21:00
that you can go wait a minute

21:01
that sounds legit because it is and why

21:03
is it my person doing that which is a

21:05
good question which then leads you to go

21:07
to sensiblemoney.com and at least

21:10
interview them

21:10
to see if it's a good fit one of the

21:12
things you mentioned in their day and i

21:13
want to i want to pivot

21:15
um because i was on your site and you

21:17
had a really good download

21:19
that i loved it was and it was called

21:22
four things retirees need to know about

21:24
the four percent rule

21:25
and you just mentioned the four percent

21:27
rule but but i'm glad you mentioned it

21:28
because it segued into

21:30
this let's cover those four things and

21:32
again you can go to our site and

21:34
download it hello

21:36
um four things retirees need to know

21:39
about the four percent rule what are

21:40
those

21:41
four so i don't know if i'll get them in

21:44
order we'll see and you'll

21:45
cue me if i miss one that's right that's

21:47
right yeah that's right

21:48
i've got you so inflation um when you

21:51
look at the four percent rule it

21:53
generally if you had a million dollars

21:55
it would say you could withdraw 40 000 a

21:57
year and

21:58
increase that with inflation you know

22:00
over a 30-year time

22:01
frame and have a very high probability

22:04
that you would never run out of money

22:05
that's right

22:06
and that's great and yet when you look

22:09
at how inflation

22:10
actually impacts retirees

22:13
it often doesn't impact them

22:16
as much as you might think

22:19
and so take today's environment as an

22:21
example

22:23
most of our retirees already own a home

22:26
many of them have a mortgage that's paid

22:28
off uh if they didn't they often

22:29
refinance

22:30
just got lower rates and locked in that

22:32
cost and so

22:34
inflating housing prices right now are

22:36
not having any

22:37
negative impact on them unless they want

22:39
to downsize

22:41
but based on their current you know

22:42
their wealth is growing on paper but

22:44
the house is not a consumable right they

22:46
need to live somewhere

22:48
contrast that with someone that's 30

22:50
years old and trying to buy their first

22:51
home

22:52
inflating home prices right now are

22:54
having a big impact

22:56
on them so inflation in that asset

22:59
is impacting these different demographic

23:01
segments

23:02
quite differently and so we see that in

23:05
many cases throughout retirement and

23:07
there's a lot of research that has shown

23:08
that yes

23:09
retirees need their cash flow to

23:11
increase each year to keep up with

23:13
rising prices

23:14
but they don't need it to increase at

23:16
the same pace as inflation

23:18
and so we're able to build in customized

23:21
inflation

23:22
assumptions based on the demographic of

23:24
the household

23:25
uh higher net worth households inflation

23:28
has a lower negative impact on them

23:30
that makes sense if i'm retiring on

23:32
forty thousand or fifty thousand a year

23:35
and the price of energy gas you know

23:37
milk groceries go

23:39
health care goes up that's a big bite of

23:41
my budget

23:42
if i'm retiring on 150 000 or 200 000

23:46
a year i easily absorb those price

23:48
increases and and it doesn't

23:50
have have as big of a negative impact on

23:52
me so

23:53
that's one of the areas that the four

23:54
percent rule you know

23:56
treats all people equally when in

23:58
reality inflation does not impact

24:01
all people your housing example was

24:03
fantastic

24:04
it does it does affect different

24:06
demographics

24:07
differently i hate to say different

24:08
different differently but um

24:11
that's a really good point so inflation

24:13
what's the second

24:14
the second would be taxes and so again

24:18
if i have all my money in an ira

24:20
and the four percent rule says you know

24:22
i can take 40 000 a year out and i don't

24:24
factor in income taxes well if my tax

24:28
rate is 32

24:30
or even 28 you know i don't actually get

24:32
to spend

24:33
40 000 a year right i'm lucky if i

24:36
get 30 000 a year after taxes and then

24:39
you have to factor in state taxes not

24:40
just federal taxes

24:42
but if i have my entire million dollars

24:45
in a non-ira portfolio

24:48
and much of that is structured to take

24:51
advantage of

24:52
capital gains rates and qualified

24:54
dividend rates which can be incredibly

24:56
low

24:57
i might pay almost nothing in taxes

25:00
on that forty thousand dollars that i

25:02
want to withdraw so

25:04
the four percent rule doesn't help

25:05
people distinguish between

25:07
after tax income or gross income and so

25:10
if you have all your money in your

25:12
qualified

25:12
ira 401k 403 b type accounts it can be

25:16
very misleading

25:17
you're going along thinking great i'll

25:19
have 40 000 a year to draw out of this

25:21
account

25:21
not so fast a big chunk of that's going

25:24
to uncle sam

25:25
so again you know when you get near

25:27
retirement you need very customized

25:29
projections that do

25:30
take that into account so you can

25:32
actually estimate

25:33
what you have available to spend right

25:36
yeah number three number three

25:40
so let's see if i can you can remember

25:43
what i

25:43
put in as number three or number four

25:46
just go

25:46
number four yeah i believe one of them

25:49
was

25:50
simply spending so we don't

25:53
spend in nice even amounts and so this

25:56
is what i alluded to

25:58
with uh my earlier comment about using a

26:00
household

26:02
four percent what we call a fundedness

26:03
rate is we buy cars

26:06
we you know or harley-davidson

26:09
motorcycles

26:10
yes or soft tail slims which i was very

26:13
soft-tail slim harley-davidson

26:15
yeah how about that very impressed with

26:17
your research team

26:20
they deserve you know a bonus for that

26:23
one

26:24
so some people buy harley davidsons on a

26:26
whim so spending yeah so

26:27
keep going i'm sorry yeah so you don't

26:29
spend in a nice

26:30
even amount and when you have

26:33
other income sources i know this is one

26:35
of the things in that report also

26:38
you like social security coming in let's

26:41
say i want to retire at 62

26:43
and i if i've done my homework and i

26:46
have a healthy

26:48
you know relatively healthy life uh

26:51
i probably shouldn't start social

26:53
security until age 70.

26:54
well i have this gap where it might be

26:57
perfectly okay for me to withdraw

26:59
a lot more than four percent from my

27:01
portfolio for that eight year window

27:03
because then once social security kicks

27:05
in i might only need to withdraw two

27:07
percent a year from my portfolio to

27:09
supplement my social security but

27:11
i don't want to wait until social

27:13
security kicks in at 70 to have a

27:15
certain lifestyle so i so i

27:17
want to draw enough out in those inter

27:19
intermediary years

27:20
well usually when you when you do the

27:22
planning right that can be

27:24
perfectly sustainable right if i was

27:26
only using the four percent rule i would

27:28
say oh no

27:29
you know i either need to start my

27:30
social security early or i'll have to

27:32
work longer it wouldn't

27:33
be easily apparent that your portfolio

27:35
could sustain those

27:36
those extra withdrawals so i may have

27:39
just combined

27:40
item three and item four into into one

27:42
in terms of

27:43
lumpy spending which is the reality we

27:46
don't spend a nice even amount

27:48
each year and the four percent rule does

27:50
not help us account for

27:51
other sources of income you know social

27:54
security annuity income

27:56
rental income and pension income the

27:59
fact that spouses have

28:00
income sources that start at different

28:02
ages and so all of these things

28:05
create a varied pattern of cash flow

28:08
during retirement

28:09
and what you need is withdrawals to

28:11
supplement those other sources

28:13
and that really works out to a nice neat

28:15
four percent number

28:16
once again sensiblemoney.com you can

28:18
download the full book

28:20
and the details she's just glossing over

28:22
and just trying to

28:23
you know someone with her iq she has to

28:25
talk down to us

28:26
as people just to make it simple she is

28:30
mad smart and one of my favorite

28:32
advisors in the country

28:34
um i have to add something

28:37
what's that so in i was talking about i

28:40
know this is in the the report that's

28:42
available as a download but

28:44
the other item the four percent rule

28:45
doesn't account for is what i call

28:48
it's not my term i didn't make it up but

28:50
it's referred to as go go spending

28:52
so and retirees yeah there's this

28:54
pattern of we retire we have go go our

28:56
go-go years

28:57
and people tend to spend more and then

28:59
you enter your slogo years where

29:01
spending actually decreases in

29:03
inflation-adjusted terms and then

29:05
you often reach the what we call the

29:07
no-go years where you're spending more

29:08
on health care

29:09
and help around the home well during

29:11
those gogo years

29:13
you know when we project spending and

29:15
retirement we project it in this linear

29:17
way

29:18
but if you account for this pattern you

29:21
can actually show people that during

29:22
your go-go years you might be able to

29:24
afford to travel more and do some of

29:26
those extras while you're still

29:27
mobile and healthy and then we're going

29:30
to

29:30
taper off that spending during your

29:32
slogo years

29:34
and then it might creep back up in in

29:36
later years with healthcare

29:38
but you're allow you you want to

29:39
customize that and that

29:41
that is the other thing the four percent

29:42
rule simply so it could be go go no go

29:45
and can't go

29:46
it could be we don't know

29:50
no exactly um interesting

29:53
i mean i really like your unique take on

29:56
things

29:56
i mean you obviously in the financial

29:58
planning world in the world that you're

30:00
in

30:01
um there's been a lot of ideas i think

30:03
you've taken the really good ideas

30:05
and you've uh danified them

30:08
uh for lack of a better phrase but i

30:10
think that that

30:11
you've done it in a in a way that

30:13
clients can fully you know

30:15
understand the process which i always

30:17
say people if you can't explain it to a

30:19
nine-year-old don't buy it no offense to

30:21
year olds your system is complex

30:24
yet understandable which is the reason

30:26
that i really like it and gravitate

30:28
toward it

30:29
i want to pivot a little bit and cover

30:31
some things that

30:32
um you know when we kind of announced to

30:35
our clients

30:36
and there's a lot of non-clients out

30:37
there as well that we were going to

30:39
talk with you they wanted to get your

30:40
take on on a lot of things

30:42
one of them was and obviously i'm not

30:44
going to hold you to the answer because

30:45
nobody knows

30:46
the perfect answer but give us your

30:48
overall um

30:50
outlook and at the time of this taping

30:52
so everyone listening and viewing look

30:53
at the look at the date so if you're

30:55
listening three years from now it's

30:56
dated

30:57
just markets in general interest rates

30:59
just just the your overall

31:00
you've done this a long long time um

31:03
what's your overall

31:04
feel about where we're at right now yeah

31:07
you know i started in 95 as a financial

31:10
planner or what we were called a

31:11
registered rep

31:12
at the time and so i went through the

31:16
dot-com you know bull run and uh i will

31:20
tell you

31:21
you know in the late 90s uh i remember

31:23
people who wanted to put 100

31:25
of their money in science and technology

31:27
mutual funds and

31:28
i remember asking one person to sign a

31:31
disclosure form because

31:33
i wasn't comfortable with that right and

31:35
eventually it all crashed and

31:37
you know here you were at the time

31:39
trying to give advice on diversification

31:42
and not

31:42
not chasing these trends and and it was

31:45
very difficult

31:46
uh to get people to do something that

31:47
would be in their long-term

31:49
best interest and then we went through

31:51
you know that was essentially

31:52
almost a three-year downturn of 99 2000

31:55
2001.

31:57
then of course we had the run up to 2005

31:59
where we had this crazy bull

32:01
real estate market and then the the

32:03
ensuing crash

32:05
i had clients that uh retired in

32:07
december of 2007.

32:09
they are fine it was super scary

32:13
but we had stress tested the plans and

32:15
nobody had to go back to work and

32:17
you know it works planning works uh and

32:20
so then i've been through

32:22
you know the ensuing decades since then

32:25
where

32:26
it seems that every year you know people

32:29
are waiting for that next crash sure and

32:33
we of course got that during the

32:35
pandemic from

32:36
from as usual some unforeseen outside

32:38
event

32:39
and now here we are at what people have

32:42
have often referred to as an incredibly

32:44
overvalued stock market

32:46
and the truth is nobody knows i mean

32:48
exactly

32:49
there are so many headwinds

32:52
good i i suppose i should call them

32:55
almost tailwinds

32:56
that we could look at of course there's

32:58
headwinds too

32:59
but there's a lot of incredible things

33:02
happening with technology that can

33:03
improve productivity right now

33:06
and you know can the stock market

33:09
continue on the sustained

33:11
double-digit returns no it never can

33:14
so my answer when people ask me about

33:16
the market had a client ask me a few

33:18
weeks ago so

33:19
you know when when's is there going to

33:20
be a bear market and i said

33:22
yes i always answer yes absolutely i

33:25
just don't know when

33:27
just don't know when and so what you got

33:30
to do is prepare your portfolio for that

33:33
you have to have some type of

33:35
rules-based system

33:36
to take gains off the table we are doing

33:39
that aggressively right now

33:41
okay so these gains incredible gains

33:44
we've seen in the last year

33:46
you take some of those gains and you

33:47
park them into a

33:49
safer low volatility it's not going to

33:52
earn much

33:52
the price of safety is a low return so

33:54
you have to accept that

33:56
but you're parking some of that in a

33:58
safe place so that you can use it to

34:00
to draw out of when you when you need to

34:02
in terms of interest rates

34:04
you know again since the great recession

34:08
we have been saying that there will be

34:10
higher interest rates in the future

34:11
and we had just started to see two

34:14
percent yields on money market funds

34:16
in january of 2020 right before this hit

34:20
i remember so excited like i can earn

34:22
two percent on the money market fund

34:24
again oh my gosh

34:25
uh it's been since 2006 since we had

34:28
seen that right

34:29
and now here we are back to zero it

34:31
won't stay that way

34:33
and so right my answer to all these

34:36
market questions is

34:37
don't get caught up in these these

34:39
minutia

34:41
the media focuses on the minutia as if

34:44
it was a sports game and they're calling

34:46
out the play-by-play

34:48
after 25 years of doing this none of

34:51
that

34:51
is really going to impact your

34:52
retirement security you are going to

34:54
harm yourself

34:55
more by trying to guess what's going to

34:58
happen next

34:59
and guessing wrong then what you can

35:02
accomplish by simply following a

35:04
disciplined plan

35:05
that's designed for a 20 or 30 year time

35:08
frame as i always tell people these are

35:10
all

35:10
old cliches the bell doesn't ring at the

35:13
top or the bottom

35:14
right bulls make money pigs get

35:17
slaughtered as they always say

35:18
but it's hard for people to uh you know

35:20
in the go-go times

35:21
i'm assuming you're getting calls on

35:23
crypto dana on spock

35:26
so uh let's let's get the dana on spock

35:28
take on crypto and you

35:30
you're not allowed to use the word the

35:32
words tulip bulbs

35:33
so go well i actually am a big

35:37
fan of crypto and so yeah

35:40
so i uh started a deep dive on crypto

35:44
well well over a year ago now i heard uh

35:47
tyrone ross as his name he founded a

35:49
company called on-ramp

35:51
which is helping financial advisors uh

35:53
deliver

35:54
digital asset portfolios to their

35:56
clients i heard him speak at an industry

35:58
event that really

36:00
you know piqued my interest from for me

36:03
to go

36:03
okay there is something there i have to

36:06
learn more about it this just isn't

36:07
bitcoin and the latest fad which is how

36:09
i thought about it before

36:11
it's not you're correct yeah and so

36:14
i started consuming books podcasts

36:18
every website article i could find i

36:20
started investing

36:21
i opened about five different crypto

36:24
accounts and learned how to move money

36:25
from wallets and do all of this weird

36:27
stuff

36:28
now there's certainly ways to invest in

36:30
what we refer to as digital assets

36:32
without doing all this weird stuff

36:34
but i really wanted to learn how it

36:35
worked and so you know i would

36:37
transfer you know fifty dollars

36:39
something small that if i did it wrong

36:41
or lost it i

36:42
you know it wasn't gonna hurt me so i

36:44
could figure out and learn what this

36:46
crazy

36:47
crypto world was my conclusion is

36:50
it is a new investable asset class

36:54
and so digital assets you know i think

36:58
in as soon as 10 years possibly sooner

37:00
we will

37:01
see the digital world essentially

37:04
replace

37:05
a lot of the typical banking functions

37:08
and stock trading functions that

37:11
really happen very manually right now so

37:14
think about

37:14
music and your old eight tracks and then

37:16
your cassette tapes and then your cds

37:18
and now

37:18
who even has cds exactly it went digital

37:23
well money is still incredibly manual

37:25
even the the process of a credit card

37:27
transaction is

37:28
so antiquated compared to music or

37:32
movies or so many other things that that

37:34
are digital now

37:36
and so money is going digital what

37:38
that's going to look like

37:39
in its final form i don't know um you

37:42
know

37:42
will we see additional regulation yes

37:46
we've seen enough regulation earlier

37:49
this year

37:50
and actually late last year that

37:52
institutions started getting more

37:54
comfortable

37:55
adding bitcoin to their balance sheet uh

37:57
you know banks are allowed to custody

38:00
digital assets now so the people who are

38:02
saying it's going to get

38:04
regulated out it's not going away

38:07
will it evolve absolutely yeah you know

38:11
there's over 5 000 cryptocurrencies out

38:13
there right now

38:14
you know just like the dot-com era many

38:17
of those didn't make it

38:19
yeah most most want you said something

38:21
that i wrote down that

38:23
i've never heard it put this way but i

38:24
think it's the best thing i've heard on

38:26
crypto

38:27
is that money should not be manual um

38:30
and right now it's manual and that's a

38:32
really

38:33
good way to put it and eventually it

38:35
will not be manual because the market

38:38
will demand it to not be manual

38:40
and not be hard and so i think

38:43
i think the blockchain i've said this on

38:45
numerous podcasts the blockchain

38:46
technology

38:48
is legit crypto is writing on top of

38:51
that

38:52
we just don't know which crypto version

38:54
is going to be the winner at the end

38:55
right yes okay exactly and you know rick

38:58
edelman

38:59
uh started a new uh certification in

39:02
digital assets that i

39:03
actually went through his program and

39:05
and finished it

39:06
of course rick did why wouldn't rick do

39:08
that he's doing everything else for

39:10
god's sakes

39:12
and so you know the take on it

39:15
throughout that course was for most

39:16
people

39:17
an allocation of one percent is

39:19
sufficient it's

39:20
new it's speculative it's emerging

39:24
and so you know we have a framework here

39:27
you know if our clients are interested

39:29
in crypto or if they fit that type of

39:31
risk profile

39:33
we will invest them in a publicly traded

39:35
version

39:36
uh it's one of the uh the trusts

39:40
so it's eth the ticker symbol is e-t-h-e

39:43
and small small allocations one percent

39:46
at max three percent if it's a more

39:48
risk-tolerant client

39:49
in their roth iras ideally where we put

39:52
things that we think have the best and

39:53
what is e-t-h-e-t

39:56
edward tom harry edward right yes

39:59
it is essentially a a publicly traded

40:03
trust it trades like a stock

40:06
all it owns is ethereum

40:09
and ethereum is a cryptocurrency a

40:12
digital

40:13
asset that a lot of smart contracts

40:16
and a whole world of finance called

40:18
decentralized finances being built

40:20
on top of ethereum it's essentially

40:23
programming language

40:24
and uh you know buying the

40:26
cryptocurrency

40:28
is allowing you to own a little piece of

40:32
the technology

40:33
and it it earns fees when when people

40:36
use it

40:37
and there's a whole lot more i could

40:39
could you know go on well

40:41
they got to go to sensiblemoney.com and

40:43
find out to me it

40:44
feels you know i'm a i'm i'm dating

40:46
myself dana looks like she just got out

40:48
of college at

40:48
university of florida and she's going go

40:50
gator but i don't

40:52
i you know i i i just remember how this

40:55
all played out in the in the dot-com

40:57
era but it re but reminds me dana

41:01
of when i was at dean witter morgan

41:03
stanley ubs payne webber of managed

41:05
futures you put a

41:06
small percentage of your portfolio

41:09
less than five obviously you're saying

41:11
one which is great

41:12
but um that's the way i look at are you

41:15
actively

41:16
with clients that understand it are you

41:18
actually

41:19
putting that in their portfolios or

41:21
advising that for a few clients and

41:23
again one percent

41:24
allocations yes we are and uh you know

41:28
we think

41:28
it with a we replace so in our portfolio

41:31
models we use small cap or small cap

41:33
value

41:34
as a part of their asset class and so we

41:37
will say this

41:39
you know digital asset is replacing

41:42
one percent part of the allocation that

41:44
we would normally have in small cap

41:46
value which is an aggressive asset class

41:48
anyway and so we want to look at it as a

41:51
five to seven year hold time

41:53
yes it's highly volatile uh so

41:56
expect that it can be down 50 in a week

42:00
that's just the way it works and it's

42:02
not appropriate for everybody

42:04
but for people that have higher risk

42:06
tolerances in very small allocations

42:09
we think it has a lot of potential when

42:11
i'm looking

42:12
out five ten years not something i'm

42:14
going to trade agreed and

42:16
and i think as we've seen before in the

42:18
housing bubble and all the stuff the dot

42:20
com era people that

42:22
shouldn't be going all in are going all

42:23
in and they're leveraging going all in

42:25
you know so i mean it will work itself

42:27
out you know it'll bottom itself out and

42:30
it will clean out the speculators and

42:32
then it will be

42:33
i think legitimate going forward i had a

42:36
question but but once again

42:38
dana on spock saying money should not be

42:40
manual is

42:42
is the takeaway from that crypto

42:44
discussion

42:45
which i think defines the reason that

42:48
it's going to be here

42:49
you know money is hard pennies and

42:51
nickels and dimes are hard credit cards

42:52
are actually hard

42:54
she is right about that but i want to

42:55
pivot something um

42:58
there's a lot of um there's a lot of

43:00
wealth transfer going on

43:01
you know i always say inheritance is the

43:03
best business you could ever be in

43:05
it's foolproof you just have to be there

43:07
okay

43:09
when when you are talking to clients

43:12
there's there's either clients that are

43:15
saying hey

43:15
i want to give money away or make sure

43:19
that my

43:19
my family's going to live well but i

43:21
don't want them to show up you know in a

43:23
helicopter to my funeral

43:24
and then helicopter off to the boat they

43:26
just bought and then there's

43:28
the other side which i kind of want to

43:30
pick your brain on people that are going

43:32
to inherit money

43:34
is that part of the overall plan for

43:36
both sides of that wealth transfer

43:39
yeah you know it's not too often that we

43:42
have

43:42
people that want to include an

43:45
inheritance in their projection model

43:48
sometimes they do but most people

43:51
are um one they might

43:55
just not feel right about that

43:59
but it happens when it happens i think

44:00
though that i think more and more people

44:03
need to do that

44:05
yeah and there's other people who will

44:08
factor it

44:08
in in the back of their mind and so they

44:11
might say

44:12
you know i don't i don't want to include

44:13
this in my plan but you know

44:15
does my plan work you know i just had

44:18
someone you know does my plan work if i

44:20
buy this condo in florida this is a

44:21
client that lives in texas

44:23
sure you know yes and you know he's

44:25
right on that cusp of where we

44:27
want to see his metrics come in right

44:29
the environment readiness test

44:30
right but in his mind he also knows it's

44:33
just he and his brother and they're

44:34
going to

44:35
inherit a substantial sum in his mom's

44:37
90. and so he's like

44:38
okay you know if he didn't have that

44:42
he probably wouldn't feel comfortable

44:44
moving forward with

44:46
the plan in florida so basically we

44:49
we can stress test it and say well if

44:51
that didn't materialize

44:53
at some point you'd probably have to

44:54
sell either the texas home or the

44:56
florida home one or the other

44:57
you're not going to be destitute but

44:59
because he knows he has

45:00
an inheritance coming it just made them

45:02
that much more comfortable

45:04
moving forward with something and where

45:07
we often get involved is when the

45:08
inheritance actually happens

45:10
and now people are waiting through you

45:13
know

45:13
what are the tax consequences should i

45:15
sell these assets how do i invest these

45:17
assets

45:18
well i didn't know i was getting this

45:20
much now what can i do

45:22
can i upgrade my home or you know do

45:25
some of these other things

45:27
and so that's always you know a fun

45:29
situation to be in to be able to

45:31
show people that the difference that

45:33
it's going to make in their current

45:34
lifestyle

45:35
would that be under grim reaper juicing

45:39
like you show a rotten orange you're

45:41
like we have to factor in the rotten

45:43
orange you know because

45:45
because i love the whole juicing thing

45:47
um

45:48
right now i mean what are the biggest

45:50
when you talk to retirees either

45:52
pre-retirees people that are retired

45:55
or people that are coming to you that

45:56
have been retired for a while and

45:57
they're they're switching to your

45:59
platform and your and your advice

46:02
what's the biggest worry that people is

46:04
is it healthcare is it long-term care is

46:06
it interest rates

46:07
is it outliving their money what is it

46:09
what are people really stressed about

46:11
right now yeah so i wish i could

46:15
you know quantify that into one thing

46:18
but it's

46:18
all kinds of things i mean the biggest

46:20
reason people seek

46:21
us is can i retire and i want to know i

46:25
won't run out of money

46:26
very simple big picture um and then

46:30
they know it's all we do is this type of

46:33
retirement income planning and so

46:36
their current advisor usually doesn't do

46:39
this type of income planning i was just

46:40
talking to one of my colleagues in the

46:42
hallway right before

46:43
i joined you on this podcast and he was

46:45
saying you know this gentleman that just

46:47
hired him

46:48
you know just sold his business or is in

46:49
the middle of doing the final paperwork

46:51
and

46:52
has an insurance agent and has a stock

46:54
broker but they're all like

46:56
you know telling them this telling them

46:58
that but no one can actually lay out the

47:00
road map for

47:01
them of how much money can they have and

47:03
how and what can they afford

47:05
and so we find that really what they

47:08
want to know you know how much can i

47:10
have

47:11
and am i taking advantage of

47:14
everything i should be taking advantage

47:15
of you know the whole what we call

47:17
juicing process right am i doing it

47:19
right

47:19
am i taking social security at the

47:22
optimal time should i be taking my

47:24
pension at this age or that age should i

47:25
be buying an annuity does that make

47:27
sense for me

47:28
based on my longevity uh should i be

47:31
spending this much or is that going to

47:33
be too much should i be

47:35
taking money out of my ira or should i

47:37
be taking it out of this

47:38
trust account or or brokerage account

47:40
over here and

47:41
what should i sell you think about every

47:44
year when you're taking money out

47:46
you're having to sell something to raise

47:48
cash

47:49
to withdraw and even that decision

47:52
can stress people out what should i sell

47:55
should i sell this

47:56
or this in this account or that account

47:58
and so they can be coming to us for

48:00
all of those reasons but it's usually

48:04
in a really big picture term peace of

48:06
mind

48:07
and wanting to know that the latest

48:10
election

48:10
or the latest interest rates or the

48:12
latest infrastructure bill or whatever

48:14
it may be

48:16
is not going to derail their retirement

48:18
plan

48:19
and once again people need to to hang on

48:21
to the word decumula

48:24
decumulation and don't let that scare

48:26
you again deaculation not

48:28
accumulation decumulation is where we're

48:31
all going to be in chapter two of our

48:32
lives

48:34
and you need someone like dana to to

48:36
guide you through those waters it's

48:38
choppy it's always going to be choppy

48:40
it's always going to be volatile

48:42
but if the plan is in place and you

48:43
stick to the plan and you don't react

48:45
emotionally

48:46
you know you're going to get through it

48:48
um how do you handle that when that when

48:50
the let's just say

48:51
markets go down um are are your clients

48:56
ready for that do people panic and if

48:58
they do panic

48:59
do you just refer them back to the plan

49:01
and i'm assuming that helps

49:03
correct it you would think so

49:07
so you know i'll tell you a funny story

49:10
and i'm going to go back to bitcoin and

49:12
crypto for a second so yeah

49:14
you know i told you i started my deep

49:16
dive last year and so

49:17
i bought a thousand dollars worth of

49:20
bitcoin

49:21
and and ethereum and it went down

49:25
and then it went back up and it was up a

49:27
hundred dollars over where i bought it

49:29
and i was like

49:30
oh my god it's up i sold and so

49:33
and now on my mind when i bought it i

49:36
said this is a ten year hold time

49:38
a thousand dollars a thousand dollars is

49:40
not going to make or break my plan

49:42
and so my own self something outside the

49:46
normal way of investing

49:47
emotional reaction watching that made me

49:50
just

49:51
laugh i thought oh my goodness you need

49:54
a financial advisor

49:55
you told yourself

49:58
dana offspot walks down the hall and

50:01
hires one of her

50:02
wonderful people to manage her money

50:04
right yeah i said you

50:05
told yourself a 10 year hold time and

50:08
you managed to last

50:09
two weeks or something it happens to the

50:11
best of them dana

50:13
that is hilarious it was great and so

50:16
you know

50:16
it just reminded me of the value of what

50:19
we do

50:20
when things happen like last march and

50:23
the markets are down substantially

50:25
we remind clients that we don't have to

50:28
sell anything right now

50:30
the money you're using to live off of is

50:33
already in a safe stable investment we

50:36
designed it that way

50:37
we call it a runway into retirement

50:40
matter of fact

50:41
you could live off the safe stable part

50:43
of your portfolio for the next

50:45
five seven in some cases 10 years

50:48
before we would have to sell a single

50:51
one of your stock investments

50:52
wow and the clients that get that

50:56
it does bring them peace of mind

50:57
sometimes we have to remind them

51:00
we would have on the same day one client

51:03
emailing us

51:04
thanking us because they really

51:06
understood the portfolio structure

51:08
thank you i i just feel so much more

51:10
relaxed than i did

51:11
during the last market downturn because

51:13
i get it at the same day

51:15
i would have other clients panicked sure

51:18
because they were just looking at the

51:20
top line number on paper and that

51:22
you know their portfolio was down some

51:24
enormous amount

51:26
and i remember this one client

51:29
you know five million dollar client you

51:32
know big

51:33
big number and he's like i just don't

51:36
see how it could

51:37
ever get back to its target rate of

51:40
return

51:41
not six months later sure you were back

51:44
on target and

51:45
he just you know they can't see it in

51:48
the time because your emotions can get

51:50
so tied up right in that number on paper

51:54
and that's where we can really add a lot

51:56
of value is is helping people step back

51:58
and

51:59
not make any rash decisions at that

52:01
point

52:02
if that client had made a rash decision

52:04
he would have a million dollars less

52:06
today

52:07
than what he has and you know that

52:10
value of of that calm you know somebody

52:13
to explain and keep you on track

52:15
you know when your emotions get in the

52:17
way which is just normal we're normal

52:19
humans look at me with my bitcoin

52:21
that's right that's right tell people

52:23
about

52:24
a little bit about your book um which i

52:26
think is fantastic uh it's called

52:28
control your retirement

52:31
and it's it's a good read what motivated

52:34
you to write that other than to just get

52:36
it out of your head

52:37
what's the what's the goal of that for

52:39
the reader to absorb

52:41
yeah so what motivated me to write it

52:43
was as i mentioned earlier the the rma

52:45
the retirement management advisor

52:47
designation that curriculum and

52:49
this way of looking at how you really

52:53
plan

52:53
for retirement where you you need to

52:56
spend money regularly right you you

52:59
saved

53:00
your whole life so that you could live

53:02
off that savings and maintain your

53:04
lifestyle

53:05
and there's so many

53:08
tweaks that can improve the outcome for

53:10
people and i wanted to lay it all out so

53:12
i wanted people to have a path

53:14
that there's a lot of people who do

53:16
their own retirement planning

53:18
but it would give them all of the things

53:20
that they needed to do

53:21
as well as an introduction to people who

53:23
don't want to do it themselves but

53:25
they're looking for that level of

53:26
thoroughness

53:27
to say wow okay this is how you do it

53:30
right

53:30
and then they can come find us if they

53:33
don't want to do it themselves

53:35
what has been so rewarding for me is all

53:37
of the reviews on the book

53:39
sure you know i think when you start off

53:41
as an author you have this idea that

53:43
you're going to write some book and it's

53:44
going to make the new york times

53:45
bestseller list and

53:47
you know yeah you certainly don't make

53:49
any money from

53:51
from really selling books unless you you

53:53
know get to some

53:54
exceptional level but i i saw the

53:57
all the reviews and people that i will

53:59
never meet and some of them actually

54:00
take the time to

54:02
email or post you know find me on

54:05
twitter

54:05
and and comment that how much that that

54:08
it helped them

54:09
how much it helped them lay out their

54:11
own retirement plan and i love that

54:13
and so that's why we do what we do right

54:16
it is

54:16
it is it is and by the way you can go to

54:19
our site at sensiblemoney.com and

54:20
download the first chapter

54:22
i mean you get you can you can get the

54:23
flavor of the writing

54:25
um before we close out because i got a

54:26
couple more things tell people about

54:28
um the online courses which is it's

54:32
www the great courses one word

54:35
thegreatcourses.com

54:36
but it's how to plan the perfect

54:38
retirement

54:40
when people go do that how what are they

54:42
what how long is it what are they what

54:44
do they expect what

54:45
what can they expect from that yeah so

54:47
the great courses has been around since

54:49
the 70s

54:50
uh for those of you have been flying

54:52
that long you used to see their ads in

54:54
the sky mall magazines and so

54:56
um they reached out to me a few years

54:58
ago it took a

54:59
long time to record it's a series of

55:01
lectures 12 lectures each one is about

55:04
30 minutes long it goes through

55:07
different

55:07
phases so i talk about you know phases

55:10
for younger people who are planning for

55:12
retirement

55:13
and about three or four lectures really

55:16
focused on

55:17
those gogo years you know what what

55:19
happens in early retirement how do you

55:21
plan

55:22
the transition right up to retirement

55:24
and those first five to ten years of

55:26
retirement

55:27
and then i talk a little bit more about

55:29
the slogo years and the no-go years

55:31
in terms of what might you expect in in

55:34
planning for long-term care and getting

55:35
your estate planning in order

55:37
so the course is a life cycle course

55:39
designed to cover

55:40
from the time you're 20 and out of

55:42
school or just starting out or starting

55:44
over all the way through later

55:45
retirement what are the different

55:47
things that you need to think about

55:50
interesting let's talk harley-davidson's

55:52
danahon spot

55:53
all right how did that happen you know i

55:56
started riding dirt bikes

55:58
at the age of 35 that was 2006.

56:02
you just woke up one day and said you

56:03
know what i think i'm going to ride a

56:05
dirt bike

56:06
i a friend of mine started and

56:09
you know she's like you got to try this

56:12
go take my bike out one day and i just

56:14
i got home and then i got my street

56:17
license in 2010

56:19
and then i tried a bunch of different

56:21
bikes and one day i test wrote a soft

56:23
tail slim and i was like this

56:24
is the bike for me the waiting i felt so

56:27
comfortable on it

56:28
and so yeah so i i love it

56:31
dana onspock is the founder of

56:34
sensiblemoney

56:35
at centralmoney.com an absolute

56:39
superstar

56:40
you know if you if your dream is to have

56:41
a very smart person that rides a harley

56:44
manager money i mean she's the one but

56:46
it's bigger than that

56:47
she's an educator um but she's also an

56:50
advisor and a very good one and she's

56:51
built an organization

56:53
that i would uh encourage my listeners

56:55
and viewers to

56:56
to view before we close it out here

56:59
miss dana any last words for people

57:02
words of wisdom

57:04
you know the i mean you're a juicer we

57:06
found out you're a juicer retirement

57:07
juicer any any words of wisdom for

57:09
people before we

57:10
close this thing up you know if any

57:12
words of wisdom it's a saying that i've

57:14
lived by my whole life which is

57:16
you know you've got to focus on the

57:18
things you can control

57:19
and you have to have a plan to manage

57:22
all of the things that you can't control

57:24
and you got to let the rest go and so

57:26
don't spend all your time focusing on

57:28
all of those things outside your control

57:30
instead

57:30
get a plan in place follow it and go out

57:33
and uh

57:34
enjoy life that home run you just heard

57:37
hit is from dana

57:38
onspock founder of sensible money dana

57:41
thank you so much for joining me on fun

57:43
with annuities we're going to have you

57:44
back on

57:45
and get more detailed with some examples

57:47
next time is that okay

57:48
that sounds great sounds good we'll see

57:50
you next week on fun

57:52
with annuities

57:57
thanks for listening to fun with

57:59
annuities please hit the subscribe

58:01
button and make sure to go to my site

58:03
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58:06
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58:07
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58:10
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58:10
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58:13
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58:13
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58:16
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58:17
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58:19
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58:21
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58:22
obligation i also encourage you to

58:25
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58:27
stan the annuity man so we can have a

58:29
full discussion

58:30
of your specific situation it will be

58:33
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58:34
brutally factual and truthful advice you

58:37
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58:39
you should definitely take advantage of

58:41
so join me next time for the number one

58:43
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58:44
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58:51
[Music]

59:02
you