065 Bob Powell: The Voice For Your Retirement

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welcome to

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fun with annuities with your host me

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stan

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the annuity man america's annuity agent

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can annuities be fun

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can contractual guarantees be fun

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absolutely they can

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find out the brutal facts about

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annuities with no sales pitches or high

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pressure nonsense

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just the brutal and factual annuity

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truth which is all you need to hear

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let's have some fun with annuities and

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let's have that fun

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start right now

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[Music]

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welcome to fun with annuities i'm your

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host stan the annuity man where our

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saying here is live in the reality not

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the dream and

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today is kind of a dream because we have

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bob powell on the program

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he's a very good friend of mine both of

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us long time ago used to work for dean

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witter reynolds

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if you remember that but he's a very

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smart person he's no longer doing that

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but you know what he is doing he's

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advising retirees on

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and people that are investors both

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retirees and investors

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on you know the markets and what they

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need to be aware of very smart guy let

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me go through

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some of his not all of his stuff that uh

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he's achieved but some of it um you know

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he he's a

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an award-winning financial journalist

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he's appeared in the usa today the wall

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street journal market watch

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he's still writing for market watch aarp

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he

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appears regularly on the street dot com

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um in fact he's the editor

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and publisher of the streets retirement

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daily he started with

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the boston herald if if you're up there

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you know who that is and he's also

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a credentialed cfp so he knows what he's

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talking about

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um like i said before he was became a

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financial journalist and one of the top

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in the country

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by the way you know if you've probably

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read a lot of his stuff in the usa today

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every time i'm looking at usa today he

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seems to be there

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but he's done a lot he's he serves as

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the editor-in-chief

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of the investments in wealth institute's

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retirement management journal

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he's the host of iwi's access

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exceptional advice

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advisor podcast he does a lot of stuff

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he's the co-founder of a company called

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finstream.tv

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he's an instructor at salem state

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university's online elder planning

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specialist program

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a lot does a lot he graduated with a

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bachelor's degree in english literature

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from marquette university go warriors

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and a master degree in journalism from

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boston university college of

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communication

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school of management he lives in

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swampscott massachusetts

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with his wife has four children triplets

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sons and a daughter so

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you know he could when you have triplet

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sons you can manage a lot so bob can

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manage a lot so

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welcome to fun with annuities bob

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powell how are you i'm great stan thank

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you for that

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lovely introduction and i'm glad you

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didn't go through each and every line of

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the long bio but you

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really did get the highlights it would

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be we'd be here all day bob you've done

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a lot i mean

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i didn't even mention all the boards you

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want if there's a if there's a board in

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swampscott

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bob's on it so if you're if you're

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moving to swampscott

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you might want to check in with bob so

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let's jump in

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bob powell because of all the people

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that i know

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you probably have your finger on the

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pulse

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better than anyone of of today's

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retirees and investors the readers out

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there because you interact with them

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and you're very accessible to your

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readers and once again we're going to

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have all your

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your stuff on our site so people can go

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there my my

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people listed on the podcast and also

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viewing this on my youtube channel

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let's talk about current markets at the

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time of this taping bob

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what what are your feelings about kind

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of where we're at with the markets

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and what are the readers worried about

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or asking

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yeah so i think the big thing is

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is inflation real now for

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many years right we've had to worry

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about how do you find

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uh yield in a zero interest rate

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environment

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and if inflation is rising i guess

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there's it's a it's a twix between

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problem right on the one hand right

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uh folks are are grappling for higher

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yields and that may result from higher

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inflation

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on the other hand they've benefited from

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low inflation because their cost of

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living has been relatively

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low so if inflation rises their cost of

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living is going to go up

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and uh so i think you know as much as

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you uh yearn for a higher yield you may

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regret the fact that

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you'll be paying perhaps higher gasoline

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prices or higher food prices or higher

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lumber prices whatever it might be so i

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think you know be careful of what you

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wish for

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uh so but the the real problem is is

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this is this

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period of inflation real or is it

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translatory as

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uh chairman powell no relation said um

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are you sure about that bob come on no

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no fourth cousin

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in ancestry.com that i know of no

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relation but

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i have no special insight other than

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what he said uh you know before congress

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which is

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you know i think that you know we do

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have this unique problem right now as

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we're coming out of covid

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where demand was low and now it's rising

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and supply is low and it has to catch up

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so

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i think there will be some things where

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inflation is more permanent than

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in other places um but we don't know yet

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right so you have to sort of navigate

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these waters and i would say

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the big problem for investors whether

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you're saving for or living in

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retirement is

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that you've been reaching for yield

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right money market funds pay next to

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nothing

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and they spend and they pay actually

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negative if you look at it as a real

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return right if you look at

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your inflation minus a nominal return

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you're actually earning below

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your earth it's a negative return and

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the same is true with the short term cd

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so people have been reached for yields

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they've been going after

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mlps or reits or uh you know

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bdcs or you know name the flavor of the

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month where you can get

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five or six or seven percent but but

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what you're also getting is a lot more

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risk by going out and

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venturing into these you know

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non-traditional investments

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and that's where i think for me that's

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where people are concerned about in

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terms of what do i do with my money

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how do i earn a higher return but how do

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i make sure that i'm not

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uh you know risking principle and isn't

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that an age-old question going back to

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when

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you and i started at dean witter right

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people always come in

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years ago i don't know i don't i think

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we talked about this you know i had

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i cut my teeth you know one day a week

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in the sears store

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right next to club stocks and stocks

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remember that right

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stocks and socks right and i remember

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people would come in novice investors

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and say i want something that generates

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a high return but doesn't put my money

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at risk

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so going back 34 years the same goals

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you know back then are the same goals

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that people have now

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unfortunately you just described the

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false and misleading indexed annuity

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pitch

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which is market upside with no downside

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which is is

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you know every day i'm hammering away

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that no no no these are cd type products

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these are not market products

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but um you know i agree everyone's

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looking for the perfect product

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everyone's looking for the too good to

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be true product and if you talk to

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enough people

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they'll sell it to you um you just have

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to be very careful

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now you're do you get a lot of questions

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about

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interest rates and where they're going

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because for the last six years bob i've

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heard the following

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hey stan the annuity man america's

7:15
annuity agent interest rates

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have to go up right

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no they've gone down for the last six

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years what are you what are you hearing

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and what's your

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kind of thought and opinion on interest

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rates not and nobody knows where they're

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going but

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i'd love to hear what your insight is on

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this yeah i mean i

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so i i sometimes take a look at you know

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the federal reserve

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from in st louis has the uh right the

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10-year break-even rate and i think

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that's as good a place to start as any

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right right now it's about 2.4

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so it's suggesting that you know

7:44
long-term rates um

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are uh you know not going to be much

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higher uh than they are

7:50
so i think people have to sort of use

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that as your benchmark and say i'm not

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going to go

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too far out i mean at the moment right

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now the day that we're recording this

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we're watching the yield curve flatten

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out quite a bit so

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right short rates are rising but long

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rates are sort of holding steady so

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that's sort of an indication that

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inflation is not really you know

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a a long-term event at the moment now i

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wouldn't necessarily be

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buying long bonds you know on the odd

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chance that you know

8:15
interest rates do continue to rise but

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i'd say this is a good as good an

8:18
indication as any as whether

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you know where you should be thinking

8:22
about putting your money um if you're

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you know and i just got off a call it's

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just you stand with a

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good many a dozen investment

8:29
professionals all of whom

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we're talking about why would anyone

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invest in fixed income at the moment it

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provides no yield on the short term it

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provides no yield in the intermediate

8:38
term and no yield in the long term

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and so these folks you know a dozen

8:42
investment professionals some of them

8:43
with the largest you know financial

8:44
institutions in the

8:46
in the country in the world are

8:47
grappling with where do you put money if

8:49
not in fixed income at the moment and

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that's

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i think that's a really interesting you

8:53
know question that folks average folks

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have to deal with as well as

8:56
institutional investors

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i agree with that i mean one of the one

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of the pri there's many types of annuity

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so i always laugh and me and you have

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joked about this that

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i hate all annuities it's like saying i

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hate all restaurants there's many types

9:07
but one of the types that's really

9:08
popular right now with us is these

9:09
multi-year guarantee annuities

9:11
which are fixed-rate annuities that

9:12
right now you can get a five-year piece

9:14
of paper

9:15
that's yielding three percent annually

9:16
that sounds horrific when you think back

9:18
to jimmy carter but right now that's not

9:20
bad because the dynamic pricing model of

9:22
life insurance companies they can

9:24
back up that three percent yield but but

9:26
i understand having been you and i both

9:28
been on that side of the table

9:30
as financial advisors masters of the

9:32
universe that we're trying to figure out

9:34
how to

9:35
you know does it make sense to lock in a

9:37
three percent i mean that's

9:38
i don't know but what i have and i think

9:40
you're dealing with this as well

9:42
there's ten thousand baby boomers hidden

9:43
at age 65 every single day that's a

9:46
demographic title wave in my book and

9:47
i'm sure yours as well

9:49
um do you think that this interest rate

9:51
range that we're in is this the new

9:53
normal

9:55
um i think it's the new normal for at

9:57
least the next

9:58
um let's call it five years okay right

10:00
and i think you know that's as good as a

10:02
horizon as any

10:03
i think of a bit you know if i'm talking

10:05
to a retiree who's

10:06
who is now retired and worried about how

10:09
am i going to generate income

10:10
you know i've become increasingly fond

10:12
stand of the bucket strategy or time

10:14
segmentation

10:16
where you say let's and forget for the

10:18
moment right four percent rule right

10:20
everyone loves to talk about the point

10:21
please let's let's get rid of that let's

10:23
get rid of the four percent rule

10:25
so let's take for example you say okay

10:27
let's use the bucket strategy and i'm

10:29
going to put you know

10:29
one to five years of my living expenses

10:32
in something that is

10:33
safe might be low yielding but it's not

10:36
going to be at risk

10:37
and then i'm going to put the next five

10:38
to 10 years of my living expenses in

10:40
another tranche maybe it's a balanced

10:42
fund um maybe it's something that you

10:44
have an idea on what to use

10:46
uh and then you know your ten plus year

10:47
ten plus year money

10:49
is going into something perhaps a little

10:50
bit riskier and then as you go through

10:52
retirement as you're going through right

10:53
the belly of the snake

10:55
well each year you're peeling off a year

10:57
from the from the other bucket and

10:59
bringing it in

11:00
forward to the next bucket that way you

11:02
really don't have to worry about a

11:03
couple things

11:04
one what the market is doing day to day

11:06
right because your living expenses are

11:07
taken care of for the next five years

11:10
and then secondly you have to worry

11:11
about the four percent rule because

11:12
you're not pulling from your portfolio

11:14
per se right you've already

11:15
you've already pulled from it and

11:17
actually you've pulled more than four

11:18
percent right you've liquidated a year's

11:20
worth of

11:21
investments to fund year five let's say

11:24
so i've become increasingly fond of this

11:26
strategy because i think it does it

11:27
takes a lot of the worry out of what the

11:29
market is doing

11:30
and where you're going to find yield

11:32
right if you if you're thinking about

11:33
well

11:34
i i need yield today well you should

11:36
take that off the table

11:37
right and say what i'm producing today

11:39
funds my living expenses

11:41
and then years 5 through 10 well it's in

11:43
a balanced fund so it's going to be

11:44
more at risk but it's going to be

11:46
perhaps diversified to the point where

11:47
it gives you a lot better yield than

11:49
maybe say

11:50
three or four percent and then maybe the

11:52
upside potential for

11:53
10. you know i'd be curious stan because

11:56
you know i

11:56
i have gotten lots of questions about um

11:59
a new relatively new product called

12:01
rylas and people are looking at these as

12:04
well having my cake and

12:05
eat it too um and you know in terms of

12:08
it being a five to ten year or ten year

12:10
plus investment

12:11
you know is that something that uh you

12:13
know i'm going to throw it back to you

12:14
is that an option well you know it's a

12:16
red it's a registered product so i'm not

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uh i'm not at liberty to comment on it

12:20
and i don't want to comment on the

12:21
podcast we can certainly get that

12:22
information to people they want to

12:23
contact us

12:24
but but in a low inch i'll answer it

12:26
like this anytime there's a low interest

12:28
rate environment

12:30
like we are in and we have been in

12:32
that's when

12:33
um brokerage firms and life insurance

12:35
companies start getting creative

12:37
and creating products out of midair that

12:39
sound too good to be true and typically

12:41
contractually are not once you look

12:42
under the hood

12:43
what i would tell people is just be very

12:45
very careful on

12:47
your hopes and dreams because you're

12:50
going to own contractual realities

12:52
before we uh go to the before i want to

12:54
get people to uh

12:55
which site do they go to bob is it

12:57
retirementweekly.com what do you want

12:59
them to go to

13:00
yeah so they can go to

13:01
retirementdaily.net that's where they'll

13:03
find retirement daily

13:04
retirement daily.net one word all under

13:08
retirementdaily.net okay and what what

13:10
do they find there bob

13:12
so what they'll find there is uh each

13:13
and every day we're publishing two to

13:15
three

13:15
articles some written by me some written

13:17
by financial professionals

13:19
um they'll find uh three times a week

13:21
what i do is a q a with jeffrey levine

13:23
from buckingham wealth partner

13:25
sure is famous for as the chief planning

13:27
officer at kids.com and

13:29
work does some work for horse's mouth so

13:31
he and i we take reader questions and

13:33
and

13:34
we answer them three times a week um i'm

13:36
also answering reading questions on my

13:38
own twice a week

13:39
and um and what you'll find is a

13:41
diversity

13:43
what i like to say is that you'll find

13:44
content that you might not find

13:47
in other sites so some of the financial

13:49
professionals that we have

13:50
writing for us are are writing um things

13:53
that are of substance um they're really

13:55
challenging readers and i'd like to

13:57
think that each day we're raising the

13:59
bar in terms of the kind of content that

14:00
we're publishing

14:02
from financial advisors there's a a good

14:04
many folks out there who you know are

14:07
offering unique perspectives not just

14:09
you know set aside 10 of your money each

14:11
year for retirement or

14:13
don't or don't buy you know don't buy

14:15
this

14:16
it's it's really my hope is to sort of

14:18
say let's for if you're a student of

14:19
retirement

14:20
we have something for you there and uh

14:23
so retirementdaily.net is there a cost

14:25
of that bob or

14:26
no so well there's there's um there's

14:28
there's uh

14:29
in front in front of the paywall the

14:30
content is free

14:32
um there are a couple articles that we

14:34
publish behind the paywall and i would

14:35
describe those as more personalized so

14:38
for instance if people are asking us

14:39
questions they they want answers to that

14:41
we put that behind the paywall

14:43
and it's more technical it's more

14:44
personalized it's more concierge-like

14:46
service

14:47
so that that content is behind the

14:48
paywall but not a lot of it i'd say for

14:50
every 10 articles we publish

14:52
maybe two or behind the paywall got it

14:54
and so the stuff you're doing for the

14:55
street.com is separate correct

14:57
it's uh yes so it's separate so we the

15:00
retirement daily uh

15:01
actually operates as a business within

15:03
the street

15:04
got it um and uh and you know we're

15:06
fortunate enough to be housed inside

15:08
their website

15:09
which is great and then i'm also writing

15:11
for the streets flagship

15:13
uh where you can find my articles in

15:15
both two places one is

15:16
in the retirement section and which is

15:19
which is free

15:19
and then also in the financial advisor

15:21
center where i'm writing articles

15:22
for the benefit of fas then you can find

15:25
me on marketwatch

15:26
just uh you know search my name in the

15:28
search box sure

15:29
name for usa today and uh and you know

15:32
i'm writing

15:33
once a week for market watching twice a

15:34
month or usa today

15:36
and the risk to bob is carpal tunnel

15:38
syndrome and we're not

15:39
we're not uh downplaying that at all but

15:41
man does do you do a lot of content you

15:43
are a content monster for sure

15:45
uh you know i'm never at a risk there's

15:47
no shortage of articles to write stand

15:49
every day there's a new product new

15:50
research

15:51
new law new something and so i i it's

15:53
for me it's always a question of

15:55
what should i write about given all that

15:56
i could write about

15:58
which leads i mean you dovetailed into

16:00
something i wanted to get your

16:01
opinion on anyway crypto

16:05
you know obviously this is uh yeah me

16:07
and you have been around a long time

16:08
and we you know we remember the dot-com

16:10
era we remember those ipos back in the

16:12
day

16:13
we remember all of that we remember when

16:15
you know there was uh

16:17
uh no the person from ibm historically

16:20
said he didn't see a need for anyone to

16:22
have a

16:23
computer in their home um now here comes

16:26
crypto which

16:27
for old codgers like me and you we we

16:30
look at it

16:31
sideways because we've seen so much you

16:34
know and we've seen

16:35
we understand the tulip bulb bubble back

16:38
in the day

16:39
what's your opinion on this long term

16:42
and maybe you have some personal

16:44
insights on just what's happening

16:46
with cryptocurrency well isn't it the

16:48
most crazy thing that

16:50
i've ever seen yes right

16:53
it's a head scratcher um there's nothing

16:56
behind it

16:56
really you know so and i and i worry

16:59
about it

16:59
but on the other hand it's interesting

17:01
the financial planning association just

17:02
released a survey about

17:04
investment trends for ffas and i'm i'm

17:06
going to misquote the actual numbers but

17:08
i'll get the direction right ballpark

17:10
yeah yeah ballpark you know maybe a year

17:12
ago three percent of advisors said that

17:14
they were going

17:14
thinking about adding crypto to their

17:16
clients portfolios

17:18
well that number has risen dramatically

17:20
this year more and more advisors are

17:22
thinking about adding

17:23
uh crypto to their clients portfolios

17:25
not in large amounts right maybe some

17:27
small exposure three four

17:28
five percent of the portfolio going to

17:30
crypto and i think

17:33
the the problem as i see it is there we

17:36
have no sense of whether this is a

17:37
correlated asset to anything or

17:39
uncorrelated to anything right there's

17:41
just

17:41
no history around its correlation so we

17:43
don't know if it's adding

17:44
in terms of you know risk adjusted

17:46
returns um

17:47
nor do we know how it performs in

17:49
different kinds of environments i i just

17:50
read a paper

17:51
that looked at you know the best

17:53
investments for inflationary times

17:55
and the author a professor out of duke

17:57
university

17:58
said uh crypto might be an interesting

18:01
inflation hedge but it's never

18:03
experienced an inflationary period

18:05
so we have no idea right what we do know

18:07
is it's volatile as off

18:09
as all heck ups right up 50 down 50

18:13
and then back up again 50. um so

18:17
you know i so i i'm i'm going to fall in

18:19
the camp that says

18:20
i'm dabbling in it personally right not

18:23
a lot

18:23
i just want to see how it performs right

18:25
the other thing about crypto is

18:27
there's bitcoin there's eth there's

18:29
light there's you know true badgers

18:31
there's hundreds there's thousands of

18:33
them yeah there's thousands yeah

18:35
there's thousands of tokens out there so

18:37
which one is going to survive we don't

18:39
know yet

18:40
right that's another bet right do you

18:42
want to do you want to bet on the one

18:43
that doesn't survive or are you going to

18:44
bet on the

18:45
one that does survive and then you know

18:47
ultimately we're looking at things like

18:49
china's putting a clamp down on bro

18:51
that was a wake-up call yeah absolutely

18:53
it's a big wake-up call and i think

18:55
one of the things that people have told

18:56
me is well china's putting a clamp down

18:59
on bitcoin because they want to launch

19:00
their own crypto

19:02
right they want to create their own fiat

19:04
currency that's digital

19:05
so that's why they're putting a clamp

19:07
down on all these other you know non-uh

19:09
you know fiat currencies that are coming

19:11
out of right the bulk of [ __ ]

19:13
the bulk of bitcoin is coming out of

19:14
china right right

19:16
and uh and so you know they don't want

19:18
that they want their own currency

19:20
i i think you know personally what i

19:22
would say is

19:24
if you have risk assets right if you

19:26
have mad money money that you can afford

19:27
to lose

19:28
maybe it's worth dabbling in um i don't

19:31
know if i would buy

19:32
the actual token themselves versus maybe

19:35
um you know there's a couple etfs that

19:37
are out there

19:38
you know spread your risk among many

19:40
different tokens that way you don't have

19:42
to sort of you know

19:43
be such a put all that money at risk on

19:46
the one

19:46
token that may or may not survive i

19:48
think that that would be foolish this is

19:49
a

19:50
you know i mean it's kind of interesting

19:51
if we go back to the internet days we

19:53
didn't know that

19:54
right would netscape survive right i

19:56
mean that's just the name in the dustbin

19:58
now

19:58
sure well it's kind of like cars when

20:00
cars first came out there was hundreds

20:02
of manufacturers

20:03
when computers first came out for

20:05
in-home use there were hundreds of

20:06
manufacturers

20:08
and only a few survivors to me being an

20:10
old

20:12
financial advisor as we were bob it

20:14
reminds me of when we used to put

20:17
two and three percent of a person's

20:19
portfolio in managed futures

20:21
remember that i mean they come in and

20:24
say well you know always have the

20:25
exposure to manage futures but you won't

20:27
you know you won't

20:27
what's the guy's name john paul henry or

20:29
whoever you want those guys managing it

20:31
but two to three percent it feels like

20:32
that to me and as as i've said on other

20:35
other podcasts i do you know

20:37
blockchain's here to stay that's not

20:39
going anywhere

20:39
so i think that's the key thing right

20:41
yes is blockchain is real

20:44
yes that's real right yeah yeah so but

20:48
crypto you know people say well

20:50
is bitcoin going to be around is dodge

20:52
coin going to be around and

20:53
my my answer is well i don't know um you

20:56
know this

20:56
if and i've said this before and people

20:58
have yelled at me because of it

21:00
if the government came out with the five

21:02
uh or six

21:03
heads of the largest bank standing

21:05
behind them and said you know what

21:07
we've come up with patriot coin or or us

21:09
coin or whatever and that's the one

21:11
we're going to recognize all the rest we

21:12
really appreciate you playing but

21:14
we're not going to recognize it if they

21:16
did that which

21:17
i could see them doing just from the

21:19
standpoint of control and also taxation

21:22
then it's game over for all these other

21:23
thousands that have popped up

21:25
um but it's interesting to see and it's

21:27
a great reflection of of just the

21:30
entrepreneurism that's inherent

21:33
with people to you know to gravitate

21:36
toward this

21:37
and i think it's also a statement

21:38
against government itself that they

21:40
don't want it to be controlled so

21:42
it's a it's a neat little social

21:44
experiment the problem with social

21:45
experiments bob as you know

21:47
people tend to lose a lot of money

21:48
because the leverage that i'm reading

21:50
that people are

21:51
people are leveraging the purchase of

21:53
bitcoin while per while leveraging

21:55
crypto i mean just some of the leverages

21:58
ten to one and i've seen a hundred to

21:59
one

22:00
you and i both know leverage leverage at

22:01
the end of the day doesn't work

22:03
no it's bad you know what's interesting

22:05
and i'll throw this out to you i'm

22:06
curious for your reaction too

22:07
we look at companies like mass mutual or

22:09
new york life putting some money into

22:11
crypto and then you look at someone like

22:12
jamie dimon saying no thanks you know

22:15
right so you know i mean we're looking

22:17
at the institutional world some of them

22:19
saying yes it's real and some saying not

22:22
so much

22:23
right well it i mean that's a great

22:26
example of like

22:27
some advisors are recommended and some

22:28
advisors don't some company

22:30
you know um ci cfos want it and some

22:34
cfos

22:34
don't want it uh the problem i think

22:37
with it is uh

22:39
a lot of the advisory group and age that

22:42
that's out there advising right now

22:44
never seen a down market me and you have

22:45
cowboy boots older than these people

22:47
and until you've been through some

22:49
cycles what we me and you call cycles

22:51
where markets literally go down and

22:53
people get hurt

22:54
and it's amazing how the 2008 debacle

22:57
has kind of been wiped clean of people's

22:58
memories

22:59
right um you know there's going to have

23:01
to be that pain again for people to

23:03
realize it but then they'll forget it

23:04
again and something new will happen but

23:06
um i think crypto um is is the wave of

23:09
the future i just don't

23:10
know who the winner is like you said i

23:13
don't think the people that

23:14
it wouldn't surprise me that the top

23:16
five cryptos now will not be around or

23:18
will not be or will be

23:20
lessened severely if something happens

23:22
it's just hard for me to believe

23:24
our government or other governments

23:26
aren't going to have their hands in it

23:27
yeah you know what you talk about the

23:29
ingenuity and entrepreneurship i've also

23:31
been amazed right we saw the

23:32
the the spak revolution take calls

23:36
right and explain that to our listeners

23:38
and viewers excellent so

23:39
a special purpose acquisition um company

23:43
is a you know a company that would in

23:46
essence raise money

23:47
have no operating company behind it and

23:49
then go buy

23:50
a private company to take over and uh

23:54
and and what happened was it seemed good

23:56
on paper right these

23:58
you're going to invest in a company

23:59
that's going to go buy companies right

24:01
it turned out to be

24:02
a bit of a mirage because one valuation

24:05
started rising on the companies that

24:06
they were buying

24:07
and more often than not the people who

24:10
sort of created the spac

24:11
made the money but not the average

24:12
investor who was buying into the spec

24:15
so we i've written one of the first

24:17
articles i wrote for market watch

24:18
this year was if you have designs on

24:20
adding a spec to your portfolio

24:22
run the other way you know this is not

24:24
anything that

24:25
you know that unless you were the

24:27
managing partner of the of the company

24:29
creating the spac

24:30
you're going to be on the losing end of

24:31
this and you know time and that proved

24:33
to be true many specs you know

24:35
didn't turn out to be money making

24:37
investments i'm glad you brought that up

24:38
because

24:39
under the category there's nothing new

24:41
in this world

24:42
back in the day when we were with dean

24:44
witter

24:46
there were things called holding

24:47
companies they weren't called spax they

24:49
were called holding companies

24:50
and they did the exact same thing we're

24:52
a holding company

24:53
we want you to invest in our stock

24:55
you're like well what do you do well

24:57
we haven't figured that out yet but we

24:58
do it it's going to be good

25:00
and it was called a holding company back

25:02
then and a lot of the uh

25:04
penny stock brokers back in the day

25:06
people don't know what those are look

25:07
that up that's a whole other

25:09
bob and i conversation a lot of the

25:11
penny stocks were

25:12
sold under the guise of a holding

25:15
company yeah and so when i saw these

25:17
specs come out i'm like

25:18
holy crap they just they just put

25:20
lipstick on the pig

25:22
this is fantastic right but it falls

25:25
under also the category in which which

25:27
the

25:28
annuities lead the way on this if it

25:29
sounds too good to be true it is every

25:31
single time no exceptions

25:32
yeah and that includes bitcoin as well i

25:35
do worry about people

25:36
putting way too much money in or people

25:38
that you know are leveraging themselves

25:41
and when it does hiccup and when it does

25:42
go down and it will

25:44
um it's going to be ugly and i and i i

25:47
feel for those people to appoint but

25:49
they sh they should kind of know better

25:51
am i right about that bob

25:52
yeah you know i mean like you know that

25:54
old saying right you should invest your

25:55
time before you

25:56
invest your money and i think that's

25:58
true you know as it was back when we

25:59
started in the business as it is today

26:01
and what i see is a lot of times you

26:03
know thanks perhaps to robin

26:05
hood and and uh you know and maybe

26:07
others of that ilk you know people

26:09
aren't investing their time

26:10
right they're investing their time

26:11
reading reddit or you know and whatnot

26:13
and and then following the crowd and you

26:16
know and then

26:16
finding out that the crowd isn't always

26:18
right right

26:19
and i think you know so we we've got an

26:21
interesting period in our life where

26:23
the information is flowing it might not

26:26
be the right information

26:28
but you know and and people may not be

26:29
reading all of the information right i

26:31
mean i

26:32
think that's true it's facts it's true

26:33
of annuities sure it's

26:35
probably true of you know life insurance

26:37
policies right i mean i

26:38
i i at each and every turn i learned

26:40
something new that i didn't know the day

26:42
before

26:42
someone was explaining to me whether you

26:44
know the uh the conditions

26:46
under which you might be able to access

26:47
the cash value in your life insurance

26:49
policy sure

26:51
and and how you may not think it may not

26:54
be there for you when the time

26:55
comes and by the way the sales pitch on

26:57
that on that sales pitch is tax-free

26:59
income

27:00
by the way it's not tax free income it's

27:02
called a loan

27:04
and all loans are tax week that's a

27:06
great that's financial semantics word

27:08
games

27:09
um but yeah if you think you bought a

27:11
whole life or whatever policy and you go

27:12
i got this tax free income no you're

27:14
taking the loan out you're paying a

27:15
percentage

27:16
and you're paying it back and it's right

27:17
yeah don't let people don't don't let

27:19
advisers get away with that

27:20
um you know it's unfortunately um

27:24
and i'll ask you this question you know

27:25
there's a lot of talk about fiduciary in

27:27
my opinion about fiduciary it should be

27:29
it should be inherent if you're in the

27:32
financial services business

27:33
you should be a fiduciary period

27:36
putting people's interest ahead of

27:38
yourselves that should be a given

27:40
yeah um where do you see that headed for

27:43
the financial advisor

27:44
space do you think they're gonna i don't

27:47
know how you clamp down on that

27:49
it's kind of like nailing a jello to the

27:51
wall but what's your opinion about this

27:52
whole fiduciary

27:54
discussion yeah so i mean so i've long

27:58
been in favor of everyone being a

27:59
fiduciary i've long been in favor of

28:02
one regulatory environment for advisors

28:06
i i used to say i still say um is

28:09
you know you wouldn't you wouldn't never

28:12
go to a doctor

28:13
right and say are you acting my best

28:15
interest or

28:16
uh or not right or you would never go to

28:18
employee right i mean

28:20
the the notion of fiduciary exists in

28:22
other professions where it's just a

28:24
given

28:24
right that they're acting in in your

28:26
best interests right but we have a world

28:28
in which someone

28:29
says i'm wearing this hat and i'm acting

28:31
in your best interest but now i'm

28:32
turning my hat around

28:34
and i'm actually not acting in your best

28:36
interest now because i'm now you know a

28:37
product salesman right i'm now working

28:39
as

28:39
all right a non-fiduciary and and once

28:42
again what's a consumer to do in a world

28:44
where

28:44
that kind of you know bait and switch

28:47
happens kind of right so to speak

28:49
um so wouldn't it be nice if the

28:50
consumer just knew at each and every

28:52
turn they were dealing with someone who

28:54
always put their best interest

28:55
for us whether it was an annuity a life

28:57
insurance policy a mutual fund

28:59
uh you know name the investment or

29:01
product or account

29:02
i'm all for that if they can tell me how

29:05
they're going to herd those cats

29:08
and get all industries on board to have

29:10
a compliant

29:12
nod of the head for that type of

29:14
regulation i'm all for whatever is best

29:16
for the consumer

29:17
period i mean that's the reason i did my

29:19
direct-to-consumer model for annuities

29:21
where

29:22
you buy the contractual guarantees you

29:23
shop all carriers and

29:25
really you know people i said well no

29:27
one wakes up in the morning to buy an

29:28
annuity

29:29
i say no no they do i mean we are the

29:32
place where annuities are bought not

29:33
sold because

29:34
we just provide the information the

29:35
books the videos and the podcasts

29:37
things like that um but that's not the

29:40
case with a lot of annuities and a lot

29:41
of annuities that are being sold out

29:43
there

29:43
right now if you took a crash course and

29:45
passed a test in one week

29:47
you all of a sudden can talk to someone

29:49
about their retirement

29:51
assets that's i never understood that

29:54
and i never understood why the life

29:56
insurance industry fights tooth and nail

29:58
i get that i get their argument from a

30:00
distribution standpoint

30:02
but at some point in time that's that's

30:04
got to get cleaned up and i think it

30:06
it will i just don't want anything to go

30:09
bad to force that hand i think

30:11
it would be better if they're they're

30:12
proactive question for you about

30:15
your retirees in general people either

30:18
retired already

30:19
getting ready to retire thinking about

30:21
retirement planning for retirement

30:23
what are the challenges that you see

30:25
ahead that they might not be seen

30:28
what what are you what would you tell

30:30
someone

30:32
you know that hey i'm getting ready to

30:33
retire in three to five years

30:35
what should i be aware of or what should

30:37
i be thinking of that's not on my radar

30:40
screen right now yeah so i think you

30:42
know job one is

30:44
you know do you have a handle on what

30:45
your retirement expenses will be

30:47
do you have a good handle on your

30:48
sources of retirement income will it be

30:50
social security

30:51
defined benefit plan will the bc uh

30:54
earned income

30:55
how much from your personal assets your

30:57
401k your ira will you be withdrawing

31:00
um and have you i'm i've always been a

31:02
big fan too of the four box strategy

31:04
which was created

31:05
by farrell dolan uh normally with

31:07
fidelity explain that to people that's

31:09
that's

31:09
that's a good segue yeah the four box

31:11
strategy was one that says

31:13
let's map your guaranteed sources of

31:15
income with your

31:16
essential expenses and let's match your

31:19
um

31:19
discretionary expenses with your risky

31:21
assets and if there's a gap between the

31:23
two

31:24
in terms of what you need from you know

31:26
your guaranteed sources don't cover it

31:27
all

31:27
well then you're going to have to pull

31:28
from your your risky assets and create

31:31
some sort of guaranteed stream of income

31:34
for some it might be an annuity for

31:36
others maybe they can figure out

31:38
i know i said don't use the four percent

31:40
rule but maybe there's a way to pull

31:41
from your assets to do that

31:43
in essence what you're saying is have a

31:44
guaranteed source of income that that

31:46
pays for your essential expenses

31:48
and your risky assets paying for your

31:50
discretionary whether it's you know

31:52
trips around the world or trips to

31:53
disney world or whatever it might

31:55
be and i you know so that as a first

31:58
pass

31:59
that's a good way to think about you

32:00
know do i because what do people worry

32:02
about

32:02
do i have enough money that will last

32:04
the rest of my life

32:06
well if you have guaranteed sources of

32:07
income that map against your essential

32:10
expenses

32:10
you've covered that notion of you have

32:12
enough money for the rest of your life

32:14
regardless of how long it is right i

32:15
mean none of us knows how long we're

32:17
going to can you just explain annuities

32:19
i mean that if the value proposition of

32:21
a lifetime income annuity as long as

32:22
you're breathing

32:23
they're going to pay and i call this bob

32:25
the income floor what is your income for

32:27
what is the amount that you need to hit

32:28
that bank account

32:30
and you know social security people that

32:32
say they hate all annuities

32:34
um by the way you already own one it's

32:35
called social security right people i

32:37
hate all annuities do you have a pension

32:39
yeah i love that thing that's an annuity

32:41
yeah so lifetime income annuities and

32:43
you can structure it so that 100 of any

32:46
unused money goes to your family and the

32:47
evil annuity company doesn't keep a

32:49
penny even though they're on the hook

32:50
you pay

32:51
that's primarily a lot of what i do is

32:54
is create that income floor

32:56
and what i found bob is if people create

32:58
that income floor

32:59
um then they're better investors because

33:02
they know that that income is hitting

33:04
every single month finish up on the four

33:08
box

33:08
yeah so i mean so i think you know so

33:10
let me just sort of say if you know what

33:12
people fail to realize is

33:13
uh when they think about an annuity they

33:15
think about it sometimes as an

33:17
investment

33:18
right and i don't think of it that way

33:19
at all right i think it's right it's

33:21
right

33:21
it's a contract but it's also something

33:23
else right so you know if let's

33:25
say for example you've got the four

33:26
boxes covered right you've got all your

33:28
sources of income covering all your

33:30
essential and discretionary expenses the

33:32
next big thing you need to worry about

33:33
is

33:34
let's look at the society of actuary

33:36
lists 15 risks that you'll face in

33:38
retirement right 15

33:39
risk well you know what's your exposure

33:41
to that risk

33:42
what's the probability of that risk

33:44
happening what's the consequences of it

33:45
happening is the negative

33:47
consequence so bad that you know it's

33:49
going to cost you a lot of money

33:51
so what are the two big risks that

33:53
people face one is longevity risk right

33:55
the risk about living your money so i

33:57
look at an annuity

33:59
um as insurance against the risk of

34:02
outliving your asset right and if people

34:03
sort of look at it that way

34:05
and say oh right i've got social

34:07
security got a defined benefit those are

34:08
annuities and now i've purchased annuity

34:10
now people as you know right say oh i

34:12
don't want an annuity because i give up

34:14
loss of

34:15
i give up the loss of my money or right

34:17
and that's true

34:18
you lose opportunity and with some types

34:20
you lose control over the asset in in

34:22
exchange

34:23
for that lifetime income there are some

34:25
types that that can still provide the

34:26
lifetime income but you are right

34:28
with full control of the asset but

34:30
you're right some of the fears that's

34:32
been laid down by

34:33
bad advertising misleading advertising

34:35
and and truly

34:37
um advisors not understanding the

34:39
annuity world because i believe you

34:40
would agree with me when we're at dean

34:42
witter a long time ago

34:43
there wasn't a lot of talk about

34:44
annuities um

34:46
you know it's just started because

34:49
there's such a

34:50
tidal wave of baby boomers hitting 65 um

34:53
every single day and they're looking for

34:55
guarantees i always

34:57
people say well how's business fantastic

34:59
because i'm in front of a demographic

35:01
tidal wave and

35:02
we're selling contractual guarantees um

35:05
the only thing that annuities can't

35:07
solve for regardless of the sales pitch

35:08
you heard at the bad chicken dinner

35:09
seminar

35:10
they cannot solve for inflation if you

35:13
put any type of

35:15
increase to that payment the annuity

35:16
company have the big buildings for a

35:17
reason they

35:18
don't give that away they're just going

35:19
to lower the payment so i always tell

35:21
people

35:21
if and when inflation hits then you do a

35:24
reverse engineered quote

35:25
you can run them at my site if you want

35:27
to the annuityman.com to solve for that

35:29
specific dollar amount

35:31
but dovetailing into that and finish up

35:33
on the four box and then i want you to

35:34
kind of

35:35
dig in more about inflation yeah

35:38
so so one of the things you know if you

35:41
think about covering your

35:42
essential expenses with these guaranteed

35:44
sources

35:45
well then you know you're looking at

35:46
your risky assets as funding or not

35:48
funding

35:49
your discretionary so maybe you planned

35:51
a trip maybe cove it happened now you've

35:53
got more assets in your risky bus

35:55
bucket to cover discretionary expenses

35:57
and that that amount's going to

35:58
fluctuate right you don't have to

36:00
um you know you don't have to spend it

36:02
all in that one year

36:03
but it's there when you need it the

36:05
other thing that's interesting too is

36:06
sort of spending patterns over the

36:07
course of retirement

36:08
so one of the things that we know is

36:10
that over the three phases of retirement

36:12
go go slow go no go your spending will

36:14
decline

36:15
and the components of your spending will

36:17
ch will change right so maybe in the

36:19
go-go years you're spending more on

36:20
travel

36:20
and in this logo you're spending more on

36:22
health care well you know so

36:24
maybe at some point you're going to be

36:26
pulling more from your discretionary

36:27
into your guaranteed sources to cover

36:29
those essential expenses like

36:30
health care expenses you know which

36:32
become roughly like 15

36:34
of your expenditures by the time you're

36:36
85 or so

36:37
sure and that's because right healthcare

36:39
expenses are rising faster than ordinary

36:41
expenses but you're also spending more

36:42
on

36:43
healthcare as well as you age

36:44
potentially um

36:46
the the the you're right you're about

36:48
these so the of the 15 risk the two i

36:50
worry most about is

36:52
longevity and inflation so if you cover

36:54
um

36:55
in longevity with an annuity well what

36:57
would you what's the

36:58
how do you cover inflation and the only

37:00
thing that you can cover it with

37:02
really right are risky assets right so

37:05
maybe it's a balanced fund or maybe it's

37:08
a you know

37:09
predominantly stock fund i wouldn't

37:10
necessarily recommend that but you know

37:13
that's the asset that

37:14
that covers inflation and uh and truth

37:17
be told

37:17
right risky assets don't cover longevity

37:20
right there's no guarantee that those

37:21
assets will be there

37:23
at the end of someone's lifetime you

37:24
know given the market volatility

37:26
but there is a guarantee that the

37:28
annuity will pay you regardless of

37:29
what's going on in the market

37:31
so i think people need to think about

37:32
okay how do i cover all these

37:34
risks and you know what are the tools in

37:36
the toolbox and not

37:38
and not eliminate the tool because you

37:40
think oh i don't like this or i don't

37:42
like that

37:42
no the tool is right i have a i have a

37:45
nail

37:46
and i'm not banging it with a

37:47
screwdriver i'm banging it with a hammer

37:49
so i think people need to think about

37:51
those risks and what's the appropriate

37:52
tool to use to manage and mitigate that

37:54
risk

37:55
and and so if you do those two things

37:57
right got my income and expenses covered

37:59
and i've got my risk covered you know

38:01
you're 80 of the way there after that

38:03
you say

38:04
okay how do i allocate my assets right

38:07
so

38:07
what's you know what's in the floor uh

38:09
what's in the upside bucket which

38:11
accounts do i have do i have a roth ira

38:13
do i have a traditional ira

38:14
do i have a 401k that needs to be

38:16
converted into an ira

38:19
what about my home right i mean we

38:21
haven't talked about this yet but when

38:22
we think about creating cash flow in

38:24
retirement

38:25
if if your second largest or first

38:27
largest asset is the equity in your home

38:29
well how are you going to tap that if

38:31
you need it a lot of right a lot of

38:32
people use it as their break glass

38:34
asset right if i need to go in a nursing

38:36
home i have the equity in my home

38:38
but i know a lot of people that have

38:40
been using reverse mortgages

38:42
um instead of like you know to sort of

38:44
mitigate the risk of

38:45
sequence of return risk right where

38:47
they're pulling money from their home

38:48
using a reverse mortgage to cover money

38:50
that they would have pulled from their

38:51
risky asset portfolio when it's down in

38:54
value

38:55
and yeah and that in that scenario

38:57
reverse mortgages do work in fact i got

38:59
a question the other day from someone

39:01
and and they

39:02
kind of fit in that that uh parameter

39:05
it was one of their largest assets their

39:06
spouse had died they didn't have any

39:09
he didn't have any kids and i'm like

39:10
well yeah i mean that makes sense for

39:12
you to maybe look at a reverse mortgage

39:14
but certainly it's by the way for all

39:15
you listeners and viewers out there

39:17
it's illegal to use reverse mortgage

39:19
proceeds to buy any type of annuities

39:22
that don't allow someone to do that

39:24
or if they do it send them to jail

39:25
because that is that is

39:27
big time illegal um so what do you think

39:29
about markets here i mean we're at

39:31
all-time highs i mean it seems like it's

39:33
it's never ending um we've been through

39:35
the never endings before but

39:37
it's got a different feel because it

39:39
doesn't look like rates are going up

39:40
anytime soon and so where do you put

39:42
your money and you put it in the markets

39:43
and it's

39:44
it's dart throwing days we're back to

39:46
throwing darts at this thing and

39:47
everything working

39:48
does that make you feel as queasy as it

39:51
makes me feel

39:52
i'm extremely queasy right i mean for

39:54
years we told people right 60 40

39:56
portfolio

39:57
60 30 10 whatever it is um

40:00
what we've witnessed now is right

40:03
companies like jp morgan and blackrock

40:05
they've come up with capital market

40:06
expectations that are just historically

40:08
half of what they used to be

40:11
so where do you put right so so markets

40:14
are high

40:15
yeah um expected return is low yields

40:18
are low

40:19
and we're printing and we printed 7

40:21
trillion and counting

40:22
right we've never seen that before and

40:24
there's no tick data

40:25
looking back to say what's the last time

40:27
we printed i guess you could go back to

40:29
world war

40:30
ii i heard a good analogy of the day

40:31
that the last time we printed money like

40:33
this

40:34
was during world war ii yeah um to to

40:38
make up

40:38
or it might have been world war one but

40:40
i think it was world war ii to make to

40:42
to create some flow and i guess they

40:45
they're thinking that

40:46
uh covet and i guess there's an argument

40:47
for it that it was another war

40:50
yeah so but what do you think about all

40:52
the printing

40:53
i mean well it's it's you know it's it's

40:56
dangerous in the sense that right it's

40:57
it's now we have too much money chasing

40:59
too few things and so

41:01
obviously it creates us you know you

41:03
know

41:04
if you don't invest you're going to be

41:05
left behind now so i would say you know

41:08
maybe the thing that would drive me in

41:09
my decision making here would be what's

41:11
my time horizon

41:12
right um you know if i'm you know my

41:14
daughter just graduated college she has

41:16
40 years to go right before she retires

41:18
um i i'd say to her you know bet the

41:21
ranch right

41:21
it's okay if you're in the market it's

41:23
going to go up 20 down 30. it's going to

41:25
go

41:25
down 15 up 40 right over the course of

41:27
your lifetime and

41:28
maybe on average it's 10 to 12 or maybe

41:31
it's 7 and a half whatever it is but you

41:33
can suffer the

41:34
ups and downs right if you're on

41:36
retirement's doorstep and you know that

41:37
you've got

41:38
well you've got maybe 30 years of

41:39
retirement but you know this is the

41:41
money that you have to fund your living

41:43
expenses

41:44
and i think maybe you have to start

41:45
de-risking a little bit right

41:47
and yes you won't get a high return on

41:49
on money market funds or cds

41:51
um but what choice do you have right i

41:53
mean you sort of

41:54
tweaks between this notion of i could

41:57
lose 20

41:58
but i need that money right or i can you

42:00
know lose a

42:02
negative one percent real return but at

42:04
least i have some

42:05
money to you know to pay for my bills so

42:07
i think that's sort of what i would look

42:09
at what's your time horizon

42:10
and how much risk you need to take off

42:12
the table you know stan there's one

42:13
other thing i'll tell you ask me like

42:15
what

42:15
retires you need to do then and it's

42:17
probably the most important thing

42:17
besides getting the money right

42:19
i always say that people um oftentimes

42:22
they retire from something but not

42:23
to something nice so i'd say before you

42:26
pull the trigger

42:27
do a deep dive into what how are you

42:29
going to spend your day when you're

42:30
tired most people i talk to say

42:32
you know i thought golf would be fun

42:34
five days a week

42:35
but but it's not my back hurts right my

42:38
back hurts and you know now it's like a

42:40
job instead of sort of a diversion right

42:43
so i'd say you know think really long

42:45
and hard i mentioned feral dolan a

42:46
little bit ago he told me before he

42:48
retired he thought about

42:49
his life in four quadrants it was he was

42:51
going to do community work he was going

42:53
to do a little gardening he was going to

42:54
do a little traveling and spend a little

42:56
time with his grandkids

42:57
he had it all mapped out and so i think

42:59
you know most people need to map it out

43:01
and say you know i

43:02
maybe i don't have all 30 years of my

43:04
retirement mapped out

43:05
maybe i don't have every single day

43:06
mapped out but generally i'm going to do

43:08
this i'm going to

43:10
as i'm doing right i'm volunteering for

43:11
community organizations i'm not yet

43:13
retired

43:14
but i'm sort of like playing retirement

43:15
right i'm seeing what it would be like

43:17
to volunteer

43:18
and help and be part of the community um

43:20
maybe it's it is spending more time with

43:22
grandkids i have an old college roommate

43:24
he's got 10 grandkids

43:25
he spends his uh his weekends traveling

43:28
to oklahoma or florida or

43:30
you know name the city to be with his

43:31
grandkids um

43:33
but really think long and hard you know

43:35
maybe some maybe you want to go

43:36
spend your days at the library i don't

43:38
know think long and hard about it

43:39
because you'll become bored really fast

43:41
if you don't have something to do

43:42
i tell people all the time bob you might

43:43
want to steal this because this is

43:45
you're from swampscott massachusetts i'm

43:47
from

43:47
stanley north carolina rural north

43:49
carolina our saying is there's no

43:51
u-hauls behind hearses

43:55
and if you see a picture of that send it

43:56
to me but you can't take it with you so

43:58
you you do have to you know live for the

44:01
day

44:02
again retirementdaily.net

44:04
retirementdaily all one word.net

44:07
is how you get to bob powell who

44:10
if you haven't heard of him i know

44:12
you've read his articles when you've

44:13
looked through usa today you just didn't

44:15
look at the picture

44:16
okay but you've read his stuff but he

44:18
needs to be on your

44:19
your constant read so go to

44:22
retirementdaily.net and just check him

44:24
out you know he's all over the place

44:26
but i wanted to last question i really

44:27
wanted to ask and get your opinion on

44:29
and it really revolves around the

44:31
financial journalism space

44:33
yeah because we both have seen we've

44:36
seen it really morph and change

44:38
for some would argue not it's not as

44:41
good as it once was

44:43
because it's just a little bit more

44:45
muddied and people like you

44:48
should be put on a pedestal and it's and

44:50
sometimes

44:51
there's just so much noise out there

44:53
that that and that's part of the reason

44:54
i have you on i want my

44:56
my people to know who you are this is a

44:58
guy that i filtered that i know that she

45:01
you should be reading

45:02
but what's happening in the financial

45:04
journalism space and where do you see it

45:05
headed

45:08
so it reminds me a little bit i guess of

45:10
when the gutenberg press came into

45:11
existence right we

45:12
saw the democratization of information

45:15
and

45:16
uh and what happens then is is uh it

45:19
creates a

45:20
you know many voices and it's really

45:22
hard to filter the good from the bad out

45:24
there

45:25
and i think uh and i think that's a

45:27
challenge right i mean if you were

45:29
fond of going to websites or reddit or

45:32
you know

45:32
i don't know youtube tick tock i mean

45:35
you'll find

45:36
many people giving you financial advice

45:38
that probably don't have the

45:39
qualifications to do so

45:41
and you may not have the ability to you

45:43
know vet the good from the bad

45:45
and and so i would say for the moment if

45:48
if what you do is stick to

45:50
trusted news sources you know wall

45:52
street journal usa today

45:55
the good news about places like that is

45:57
they still have editors who are vetting

45:59
the content that's being written by

46:00
um the people writing for that's a good

46:02
point doesn't make them perfect but at

46:04
least they have that filter in place

46:06
they have something in place that's not

46:08
just you know direct to consumer and

46:09
that's not to say there aren't many good

46:11
people out there writing direct to

46:12
consumer who don't have editors

46:14
sure but but as a con as you as the

46:17
reader of this information you have no

46:18
idea

46:19
what their credentials are and you have

46:21
no idea whether you know i always like

46:22
to say

46:23
you know do right by the reader right

46:25
don't make them go read

46:27
go elsewhere for the rest of the story

46:29
and and

46:30
and that and you know that's my criteria

46:32
right

46:33
but i don't know if that's the guy

46:34
that's writing on his own blog

46:36
whether that's the same criteria or

46:38
whether he's selling something or

46:39
whether

46:39
whether he's getting money from his

46:41
sponsors to say something right i mean

46:43
it's really hard to know

46:45
what's credible and what's not so i'd

46:47
say stick to credible news sources

46:49
and you know and then maybe you know

46:51
reads

46:52
read that stuff but but then you know

46:54
what's that old saying

46:55
in journalism you know if your mother

46:57
says that she loves you

46:59
double check it right so you know or

47:02
what wrong

47:02
how about your wife can we say why um

47:05
that that

47:06
that you know what did ronald reagan

47:08
used to say

47:09
trust been verified and i think that i

47:11
agree right

47:12
for me for me i like reading people

47:16
like you that have been in it decades

47:19
and that has seen market cycles you've

47:22
seen things go down

47:23
you've seen the dot coms you've seen

47:25
you've seen introductions of industries

47:27
like internet you've been around

47:29
so long that even though it's new it's

47:33
kind of nothing new

47:34
kind of getting back to the whole crypto

47:36
thing and you know for

47:38
people that want to do their research

47:39
pull up tulip bulb just type in tulip

47:41
bulb financial

47:42
and you'll read a long time ago in the

47:45
netherlands i believe

47:46
tulip bulls were going for thousands and

47:48
thousands of dollars you're saying wait

47:49
a minute

47:50
stan what yes and i'm not

47:53
correlating tulip bulbs to crypto by any

47:55
stretch of the imagination

47:57
but what i am saying is when you have

47:58
this fever

48:00
and this this hype and this craze and

48:03
everyone wants to get on it once once

48:05
get on the train

48:06
that's when the train tip eventually

48:09
yeah it might not this time but

48:10
eventually runs off the track and people

48:12
get hurt

48:13
so stand up i'll leave you with one last

48:15
thought right because you just sort of

48:16
triggered something

48:17
good which is my um

48:20
you know people need to become more

48:22
cognizant of their behavioral biases

48:24
right so right now we all have them we

48:27
all think we're rational but we're not

48:29
and you know this notion of bitcoin and

48:31
crypto

48:32
and and uh and stacks and

48:35
yeah nfts you know everyone's falling

48:38
victim to recency bias right they think

48:40
that what could happen yesterday is

48:41
going to continue tomorrow

48:42
nice and if they were just aware of

48:44
recency bias right

48:46
or or over confidence bias or any of the

48:48
biases that might affect you

48:50
maybe you would put the brakes on what

48:52
you're doing so i'd say you know

48:53
if if there's nothing else that you do

48:55
from the result of listening to us

48:57
talk today it's go check out you know

49:00
a primer on behavioral biases i just

49:03
wrote a column about this for

49:04
market watch and that's top of mind and

49:07
it was fascinating because

49:08
you know there's there's so many biases

49:10
out there and if you just had

49:12
an inkling of your of whether you're

49:14
prone

49:15
to these biases it just might stop you

49:17
from doing the wrong thing

49:18
that's phenomenal i mean we all have

49:20
political bias and confirmation bias we

49:22
know what that is we

49:23
recency bias really that's that's a neat

49:26
phrase

49:27
as the kids put it it's fomo fear of

49:30
missing out

49:30
right and i think a lot of the the

49:33
craziness as we're seeing from an

49:34
investor's standpoint

49:36
is that fomo you you see all the

49:37
articles about things you don't

49:39
understand

49:39
and by the way bob just threw in nfts

49:41
and if you don't know what that is

49:43
that's called a non-fungible token and

49:46
it's a digital collectible for let for

49:49
lack of a better phrase

49:51
and there's billions of dollars being

49:53
purchased in non-fungible tokens so if

49:55
you really want to do

49:57
some fun research type that in and go

49:59
down that rabbit hole

50:01
because you really have to dial yourself

50:04
in to figure it out but once you figure

50:06
out

50:06
it is fascinating i think we're living

50:08
in phenomenal times bob that

50:11
you know there's some really new stuff

50:13
um coming out of the

50:14
of covid that i'm not saying kova

50:17
created it but you know we were all

50:18
locked in for so long that we're now

50:20
coming out and

50:21
it's just kind of a new world especially

50:23
in the investment side

50:25
but anytime there's the new world you

50:26
got to be careful because the grifters

50:28
show up

50:29
and the sociopaths show up yeah people

50:32
show it

50:33
right we're watching that with esgd

50:35
right now and the notion of

50:37
green washing right as people say oh my

50:39
fun is uh climate change friendly and

50:41
you know next thing you know it's

50:42
really just that in name only so yeah

50:44
it's an exciting time but it's also a

50:46
dangerous time

50:47
in any closing wars before we leave our

50:50
friends

50:51
on the fun with annuities youtube yeah i

50:53
mean i guess you know

50:54
if if you're going to become an investor

50:57
if you're serious about saving for

50:59
retirement investing for retirement you

51:01
know become a student of the subject

51:03
um really do deep dives you know the

51:06
things

51:06
social security claiming is really

51:08
complicated medicare

51:09
is complicated um rmds are kind of you

51:12
know ir the rules regarding iras are

51:15
complicated mistakes are costly so just

51:18
don't

51:18
you know think about you know people

51:20
always say this right they'll probably

51:22
spend

51:22
ten thousand hours planning a trip to

51:24
the teton

51:25
right the grand tetons or yellowstone um

51:28
you should spend just as much time

51:30
thinking about your

51:31
your money your retirement accounts your

51:33
investments

51:34
and to put that in southern speak

51:35
there's no mulligans in retirement

51:38
uh you only get one chance you only get

51:40
one shot at you can't put the ball back

51:42
on the tee

51:43
bob pal obviously it is a pleasure for

51:45
you to join us we're honored that you're

51:47
here we hope to have you back

51:48
in the future as things unwind and

51:50
unfold um

51:52
so i really appreciate you being here

51:53
once again to reach

51:55
uh to read bob and and if you want to

51:57
email him he'll his contact information

51:59
on the on the site retirementdaily.net

52:02
retirement daily

52:04
that is bob powell who is a monster when

52:08
it comes to

52:09
content and good content in the

52:11
financial space bob thanks for joining

52:13
us

52:14
and thanks everyone for joining me your

52:17
host stan the annuity man america's

52:18
annuity agent on the number one annuity

52:20
podcast

52:21
on the planet and it just happens to be

52:23
called

52:24
fun with annuities

52:30
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so join me next time for the number one

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you