059 Mr. FIA-X: The Secrets of Indexed Annuities

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welcome to

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fun with annuities with your host me

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stan

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the annuity man america's annuity agent

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can annuities be fun

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can contractual guarantees be fun

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absolutely they can

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find out the brutal facts about

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annuities with no sales pitches or high

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pressure nonsense

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just the brutal and factual annuity

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truth which is all you need to hear

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let's have some fun with annuities and

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let's have that fun

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start right now

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[Music]

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welcome to fun with annuities the number

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one annuity podcast on the planet i'm

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your host stan the annuity man america's

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annuity agent license in all 50

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states and man am i excited about today

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because today we're going to talk about

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indexed annuities and we have a special

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guest

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with us this is his first appearance on

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phone with annuities but it certainly

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will not be his last because we're going

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to

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really dig in to everything indexed

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annuity because it's the go go product

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and if you have a sprained ankle or a

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sore throat and you ask your advisor

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what you need

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what you need they'll say an indexed

1:11
annuity it's the square peg

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into the round hole right now but let me

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give a little bit of background on the

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on our guest and i can't give too much

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i'm not going to give his name i'm not

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going to give where he came from

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all i'm going to tell you he has decades

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and decades and decades of experience

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in the indexed annuity space now because

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this is such a sensitive topic

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and it really upsets people when the

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truth comes out

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if you're watching this on the fun with

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annuities youtube channel

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and you're and you're watching you know

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the split screen he has a mask on

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literally that's how dangerous this is

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for him to tell the truth

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so we he is in an undisclosed location

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um

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it's a little echoey where he's at so

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you know turn the volume up

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because he he literally is doing this

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incognito

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and and i really appreciate it because

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you know the truth needs to come out now

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for all the people on the on the

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podcast platforms you know spotify and

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stitch or itunes and all those

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just understand that i'm not going to

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use his name his name is mr x

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mr fiax fia stands for fix indexed

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annuities

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um that's who he is

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so from here on end it's mr x and there

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will be no contact information for him

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but trust me when i say this he has

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forgotten more than

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everyone's known about indexed annuities

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he knows where all the bodies are buried

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and we're going to go through the

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product and talk about the good stuff

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and the bad stuff and

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and this is more of a foundational

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overview overview about index annuities

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because what you're going to hear at the

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bad chicken

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dinner sales seminars and things like

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that is you're going to hear all the too

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good to be true stuff

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as i always say don't buy the dream

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because you're going to own the

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contractual reality so with that

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being said i'd like to to welcome to the

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fun with annuities podcast

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mr x hey mr x

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we're doing good today scott how are you

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doing great hey let's go through we

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um just the background of index

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annuities obviously

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they were designed developed and

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introduced in 1995 but

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take us on the historical trip of

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indexed annuities and where we

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are where we were then and where we are

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today

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well back then it became where the

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variable world

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wanted to meet the fixed world and they

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would combine

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no one had that idea no one had the

3:31
concept no one had the reality of

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having that outside of the market with

3:36
some downside protection

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it seemed unrealistic to say the least

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the challenge was putting it together

3:43
but as i would say everyone knows but

3:46
they don't

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is you're not participating in the stock

3:49
market

3:50
you're not going to get market like

3:52
returns you're not going to get market

3:54
like games

3:55
you're going to get a better than

3:57
average chance at a better than average

4:00
return anything other than that

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is blue sky and bs

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here and let's let's stop again again

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for the listeners out there

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mr x is wearing a mask for a reason for

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his

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safety and just the fact that there if

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people

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knew who this was there would be a lot

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of blow back so

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you're gonna it you know listen up turn

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up the volume but he literally has

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a mask on because we're protecting his

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identity

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of what we're doing so i always tell

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people that i mean this is not a

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security index annuities are not a

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security

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um and you know for anyone to say market

4:36
upside with no downside or market

4:38
participation with

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principal protection it's misleading now

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so it's slightly false it's blatantly

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false

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misleading is oh it might be over there

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blatantly forces it's never over there

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got you um and the way that the annuity

4:54
man and i use it

4:56
index annuities primarily as a fish cost

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efficient

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and effective and simple delivery system

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for

5:03
income riders when future income is

5:05
needed and then we shop all income

5:07
riders for the highest contractual

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guarantee

5:09
we really don't spend any time on the

5:12
caps and spreads and participation rates

5:14
because

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you know as as mr x said these aren't

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market return products they were

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designed to compete with cds and

5:21
currently

5:22
the returns are more like my multi-year

5:25
guarantee annuity which is the annuity

5:26
industry's version of a cd

5:28
like those returns so um

5:32
back then i think was it that keith

5:34
keystone was the first

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index yeah keyport was the first

5:40
uh way back in the mid 90s keystone's a

5:43
beer my fault keep

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that's right keyport was the first one

5:48
and and back then they were

5:51
pretty competitive they they got some

5:53
pretty good returns but some of the

5:54
index options strategies

5:56
were as long as five years in length am

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i correct yeah it was an amazing

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strategy back then because

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they didn't quite know where they were

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at and the market has changed quite a

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bit if you look at the 10-year note

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if you look right the stock market if

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you look at all the components that are

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tied around

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that make the annuities function our

6:16
10-year notes been down for

6:18
12 years now 13 years somewhere there i

6:21
know you're

6:21
an old bond guy so yeah as good as

6:24
anyone

6:24
right and obviously the option cost

6:27
there's a volatility cost

6:29
what i mean is when the market is doing

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this

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again for the listeners he's doing his

6:35
hand up and down like volatility

6:37
when the market goes up and down it gets

6:40
expensive to play

6:42
when the market's boring it gets a

6:44
little cheaper to play

6:47
well if the note is down at historical

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lows

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and if you don't believe me how's

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everybody's refinancing go on their

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house

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probably go pretty well okay right go to

6:57
look into the market

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it's very volatile and very high we're

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having huge swings daily

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up or down that makes the cost of that

7:06
option expensive

7:08
well it's costing us more bonds and

7:10
we're having spent money for more

7:12
options

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that's a kind of a perfect storm in a

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negative way

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mr x walk me through xyz insurance

7:23
company

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is going to put out an indexed annuity

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walk me through

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them sitting around the table to when it

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gets introduced to the consumer

7:34
well obviously before they started

7:36
indexed annuity they have to have some

7:38
type of premium

7:39
guarantee meaning how much business are

7:42
you going to send us before

7:44
we spend the money basically think of it

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like a production spot i'm going to

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allocate a spot

7:49
we're going to allocate the money and we

7:52
need at least x amount of

7:53
dollars and what is that normal what is

7:55
that normal bogey what are they looking

7:57
for from the standpoint

7:58
they the annuity companies that are uh

8:01
life insurance companies issue annuities

8:02
those those companies what are they

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looking for from the standpoint of

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money to raise to make the indexed

8:08
annuity that they're introducing viable

8:10
every company's tolerance is different i

8:12
would say rule

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a thumb 500 million to a billion dollars

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before you even get their attention per

8:20
index

8:21
annuity product correct

8:24
so if a carrier has five different

8:28
versions of an indexed annuity five

8:30
different

8:30
that is that all one or is that five

8:33
times

8:34
one billion it's it's pretty much five

8:37
times one

8:38
one billion five times at half a billion

8:40
whatever that that target is they will

8:42
have

8:42
certain tranches of money that

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they have to go by the bottom they have

8:48
to go by the option they have to reserve

8:50
for it they have to allocate for this

8:52
you're gonna have marketing expense

8:53
you're going to have

8:54
things that have to get paid for they

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allocate those dollars

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and then those dollars fill the the tub

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back

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up and one of the clients you have to

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remember

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the insurance companies don't make money

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on these products till probably the

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sixth seventh eighth year

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that was my question what's the

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break-even point for the annuity company

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that's issuing the indexed annuity

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they're they're all a little different

9:16
but typically sixth seventh eighth year

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we could do some basic math with them

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if you put a hundred thousand dollars in

9:24
okay if you look on your statement

9:26
there's typically penalties

9:28
on the contract surrender surrender

9:31
charges if you get out early

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right and there's nothing wrong with

9:35
surrendering charges they

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look you're making a commitment they've

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committed the money

9:40
to buy the bond the option etc right

9:44
they need to know you're gonna be there

9:46
and uphold your commitment

9:48
if you leave early and don't uphold your

9:51
commitment

9:52
they need one thing when you break your

9:54
commitment that you don't get penalized

9:56
on

9:58
the annuity is not any different got it

10:01
they have to go cash in their investment

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they have to they may take the loss on

10:05
it well they're not going to lose they

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have held their commitment

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so what are they going to do they're

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going to have to penalize the client

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it's very fair

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now the question is is how big are the

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penalties and how long with the duration

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and there's you know

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there's other things that go into that

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so the the annuity company decides to

10:23
issue

10:23
an indexed annuity they've got to have

10:26
money in the bank to

10:27
to back up um you know the issuing

10:30
policy um

10:32
let's talk about when they decide on the

10:35
index and

10:36
and the and all the participation caps

10:38
and spreads

10:39
who handles that or did they farm that

10:41
out to a bank how does that work

10:43
well there's a combination some

10:46
companies first of all when they

10:47
build the index annuity roughly 95 of

10:50
the money

10:51
give or take is going in to purchase a

10:53
bond

10:54
so 95 of your indexed annuity is going

10:58
into a bond which pretty much shoots

10:59
down

11:00
the market thing right well it gets

11:03
bigger than that but that's

11:04
the guarantees to make sure everything's

11:06
there very small amount of your money

11:08
goes to buy an

11:08
option cost out an investment bank okay

11:12
some annuity companies have their own

11:14
option desk

11:15
and they'll do it internally okay others

11:18
farm it up

11:20
every company is different and the ones

11:22
that farm

11:24
who are they farming it out too is it

11:25
the goldmans and jps of the world

11:27
absolutely wall street they go to wall

11:29
street

11:30
and they say to wall street we're doing

11:33
an indexed annuity

11:34
we need you to buy the options how does

11:36
that work and who's

11:38
are they are is the annuity annuities

11:40
are transfer risk products are the

11:42
is the annuity company transferring the

11:44
risk to

11:46
goldman or jp morgan well yes they don't

11:49
here's what they're

11:49
they're buying an option so let's work

11:51
off of account product because that's

11:53
easiest to explain

11:54
okay right now let's just say it's a

11:56
four percent cap

11:57
meaning your upside is four well that

12:00
kind of shoots down stock market like

12:02
returns if the best i can do is four now

12:04
isn't it

12:05
right now when you purchase an option at

12:07
an insurance company

12:08
options are uncapped meaning there is no

12:11
cap they go

12:13
whatever it does is what the return is

12:15
okay so this is an interesting play by

12:17
the insurance company

12:20
they buy the option let's say it's for a

12:22
dollar fifty

12:24
okay they only have to buy it up to four

12:28
percent

12:29
because isn't that the cap yep

12:32
so what do they do with everything above

12:34
four percent

12:37
they sell it back to the investment bank

12:40
so that dollar fifty options say cost

12:42
them a dollar

12:47
so the annuity company the annuity

12:49
company doesn't keep the

12:50
everyone thinks that well i'm only

12:52
getting four percent and the annuity

12:54
company keeps the

12:55
overage if there's overage that's not

12:56
true right it's not true so here's a

12:59
great question to ask the

13:01
advisor you're working with should be me

13:03
but if it's your brother-in-law this is

13:05
what they ask them go ahead

13:06
well this is a great way to circle right

13:08
back to stanford

13:10
ask them what happens to the excess

13:13
they won't know they won't know majority

13:16
won't know

13:17
some some will they'll know they've been

13:19
trained properly

13:20
they've done some due diligence they're

13:22
you know standard reality there's some

13:24
good agents out there

13:25
absolutely absolutely we're not

13:28
picking on that but i'm going to tell

13:29
you what there's a lot more

13:32
not so good agents to put it politely

13:35
then there are

13:36
good ones or agents and advisors that

13:40
take the 30 000 foot view of index

13:42
annuities upfront bonus

13:44
market upside with no downside i always

13:45
tell people upfront bonuses

13:47
are candy for the stupid um if you

13:49
believe there's a philanthropist at an

13:51
annuity company giving away free money

13:52
then you're the rube at the table

13:54
you're the sucker they're looking for

13:56
it's just part of the overall

13:57
contractual guarantee correct

13:59
it's all built into the price of the

14:01
product i can promise you this

14:03
if you get a big bonus you're paying for

14:05
it

14:07
correct finance that money over time is

14:10
what you've done

14:12
now they're not giving it away they

14:14
don't have the big buildings because

14:15
they gave it away yeah

14:18
i and and the logos on the planes

14:19
exactly so so

14:21
so they decide to do the index annuity

14:23
they have the bonds in place they can

14:25
back it up legally it's very

14:26
it's heavily regulated by the states

14:31
it's not just your state it's every

14:34
other state's watching you and you're

14:35
watching everyone else so it's a very

14:38
the system works well and here's why

14:41
because when the depression hit

14:43
the annuity companies the insurance

14:45
companies didn't falter

14:47
the banks did the system did but they

14:51
all went to those companies to get money

14:52
it's a very safe

14:54
secure product my bone of contention

14:58
with the industry is how that safe and

15:00
secure product is presented

15:02
to the client that's the problem

15:05
and and i don't think either of us blame

15:08
the carriers

15:09
to appoint obviously they could be a

15:11
little bit more heavy-handed but

15:13
when you give this product that is a

15:16
really good sales pitch to people that

15:18
you can't oversee

15:20
and you you don't know what they're

15:21
saying then it's the wild wild west i

15:23
mean

15:24
now you have people out there and the

15:26
ads you see on the internet eight

15:28
percent return

15:29
and things like that um that that give

15:32
the industry a bad reputation getting

15:34
back to kind of how the sausage is made

15:36
with index annuities currently at the

15:38
time of this taping

15:39
there's over 700 index options

15:42
strategies

15:43
and there's over 50 indices some made

15:46
out of thin air

15:48
how does how do people choose or is it

15:50
just a darn dark

15:51
dark throw your guess is as good as mine

15:55
because here's why the advisor that's

15:57
showing you that

15:59
couldn't explain that index if his life

16:02
depended on it

16:04
and and i mean thoroughly i don't mean

16:05
the conceptual here's how it works

16:07
here's what it does

16:09
let's break it down to the ground

16:10
because a lot of these

16:13
indices that are out there have never

16:14
existed they were manufactured

16:18
which i i have a problem with do you mr

16:20
x do you have a problem with that

16:24
i think it's downright scary think about

16:27
it

16:28
this never existed and we made it out of

16:31
thin air and let me and

16:32
but i think more scary is this and

16:35
here's all the numbers that it did for

16:36
all those years if it would have been in

16:38
existence

16:40
back-tested numbers are on something

16:42
that didn't exist in some states

16:45
that's getting ready to be if not

16:46
already illegal to do i

16:48
actually believe that back-tested

16:50
numbers should be illegal

16:51
i think illustrations should be illegal

16:53
i think numbers should be illegal

16:56
i think the stuff they put in brochure

16:58
should be illegal

16:59
and here's why because if you're looking

17:02
at it now

17:03
you've already missed it

17:07
go deeper with that well think about it

17:10
is

17:10
the stock market has never returned an

17:13
identical return

17:15
for two years in a row in the history of

17:17
the market

17:19
so i love when they show me the returns

17:22
of oh you'll average 6.94

17:25
over 20 years

17:28
it's impossible to return 6.94

17:32
every year because it's never returned

17:35
historically

17:36
now the average might be that i

17:38
understand and we'll probably get some

17:39
blowback on this

17:42
but let's make it an easy number seven

17:44
so if i do 14 one year and zero

17:47
the next year i made a seven percent

17:49
return

17:50
right if i did fourteen one year and i

17:54
take out a withdrawal

17:56
and then i do zero if i take out a

17:58
withdrawal

17:59
we have a problem don't we the math

18:02
doesn't work but

18:03
but i you know the good news about the

18:04
accumulation value with index annuities

18:07
is that

18:08
if the option strategy is one year in

18:09
length or two year in link three and

18:11
like whatever it is

18:12
you know if you do have a gain of some

18:14
sort it locks in permanently and i think

18:16
that is a positive there is kind of a

18:18
stair step effect

18:19
but the stair step isn't market returns

18:22
um

18:23
i was going to say you're paying a high

18:25
price for the stair step

18:27
very good but in let's look let's go

18:30
both ways

18:31
and i know this is is something that you

18:33
talk about our safety security and a

18:35
guaranteed income

18:37
sure number one priority yes or no if

18:40
you say yes

18:41
then an annuity is a solution but

18:43
technically it's the only solution

18:45
because it's the only one that does what

18:46
it does

18:47
if your answer is no then stan you and i

18:51
both know okay well tell me what is

18:53
yeah you shake their hand and tell them

18:55
to have a great day because that's not

18:56
what you do

18:56
or what we do it's contractual guarantee

18:59
stuff if yeah if if

19:00
the answers market returns you know have

19:02
a nice day call me when you need

19:03
guarantees because index annuities are

19:05
not market return products

19:06
and by the way there's nothing wrong

19:08
with that fact the fact is

19:10
they're cd type mycotype products and

19:12
that's fine

19:13
but you know there's so many choices i i

19:16
did a

19:17
a talk the other day and my comment was

19:20
if you buy a 10-year index annuity with

19:23
this 10-year surrender charge let's just

19:25
that's what

19:26
the 10-year surrender charge and you

19:28
have a one-year

19:29
point-to-point option you're in essence

19:32
buying a 10-year surrender charge with a

19:34
one-year guarantee

19:36
am i right about that

19:39
one more time so someone buys it

19:43
annuity and it's you know it has 10-year

19:45
surrender charges

19:46
and they got a one-year uh option on it

19:49
they're in essence buying a one-year

19:50
guarantee with the 10-year surrender

19:52
charge because

19:53
the annuity company can change the rules

19:54
on the caps and spreads and

19:55
participation rates

19:57
at their discretion correct that's where

19:59
i thought you win so i was going to say

20:00
yes and no

20:02
yes you have a guarantee for 10 years

20:03
but no you don't because every year they

20:05
can change it

20:07
exactly so that's why i needed it one

20:09
more time because i was like it's yes

20:11
and no

20:11
and and i think one of the challenges is

20:13
people when you hear yesterday no they

20:14
think you're trying to be

20:16
uh uh shady soda

20:20
it's just not so black and white and

20:22
that's part of the

20:23
issue it's not black and white there are

20:26
a lot of shades of gray

20:28
so i buy an option and this is another

20:31
issue i have with the industry

20:34
when i buy a product it's not

20:38
it's guaranteed for one year two year

20:40
three years whatever the term of the

20:42
indexing

20:42
is correct at the end of that term

20:46
all hell breaks loose they can do

20:49
whatever they want and here's the chart

20:51
they got your money

20:54
so it's the golden rule they got the

20:56
gold

20:57
well and and that's what that's what

21:00
mr x refers to as renewal rates what's

21:03
the renewal rate

21:05
and there's a lot of renewal rate

21:07
history um

21:08
and he's he tracks that and helps helps

21:11
the annuity man with that in and

21:13
trying to find companies that are at

21:15
least fair and equitable

21:16
to a point with consumers on the renewal

21:19
rates because

21:20
as an example sometimes we see teaser

21:22
rates to get into a product like the one

21:24
year cap

21:25
the first year you get in is seven seven

21:27
percent cap

21:28
then the second year you you have no say

21:30
in what they're going to put it at they

21:31
could put it at 2.

21:33
well let's talk about that for a second

21:34
because i think that's very important

21:36
and i know we're both big believers if

21:38
it sounds and smells too good to be true

21:40
it

21:40
generally is without exception correct

21:42
without books without exception

21:44
yeah so here's the challenge for that if

21:47
this company is at seven and the rest of

21:51
the industry is at five

21:54
i will bet you then the following year

21:58
their renewal rate is five or less

22:01
and here's why all the companies buy the

22:04
same bonds

22:05
there's no special bonds for company a

22:07
versus company b

22:10
we'll use the s p 500 for an example the

22:13
option on the s

22:14
p there's only one option for the s

22:17
p it's not a whole different you want to

22:18
buy the s p you buy the option it's not

22:21
s p option a or option b it's the s p

22:24
option

22:25
so how can company a offer 40 percent

22:28
more on their cap

22:30
than i can if we're all participating in

22:32
the same marketplace

22:35
it's a teaser rate it's just like an

22:37
upfront bonus it's a

22:39
it's it's a teaser they're trying to

22:41
dupe you

22:42
they're they're the old the old barnman

22:44
bailey if you you don't know who the

22:46
sector is it's you right

22:48
now you're gonna be awesome absolutely

22:50
um

22:51
and i think that i really wish the

22:53
indexed annuity side of the industry

22:56
would just be brutally transparent about

22:58
all this and

22:59
hold people accountable that's not being

23:01
transparent about the product now

23:03
obviously

23:04
i've written a book on it that i'll send

23:05
to you for free if you go to the

23:06
annuityman.com and

23:07
always mr x and i always kid each other

23:09
you know there's five people

23:11
on the planet that fully understand

23:12
index annuities and i think me and him

23:14
know the other three um it's a very

23:18
small world of people that

23:19
truly understand how these products

23:22
work but what the agents typically

23:26
most agents typically want you to hear

23:29
is market upside with no downside most

23:32
agents that sell indexed annuities only

23:35
have a life insurance license and

23:36
they're not even allowed legally to say

23:38
the word market or stock market or

23:40
anything like that and the other thing

23:42
that i think is important is that when

23:44
when mr x talked about um s p

23:47
500 options that's not including

23:50
dividends which is

23:51
the dividends on the s p representative

23:53
are 50 percent of the return

23:55
so again it is it's not markets

23:59
we're not putting it down what this

24:01
podcast is for and by the way for the

24:03
people

24:03
listening uh on all the platforms mr x

24:06
has on a mask

24:08
because that's the reason he sounds a

24:09
little bit muffled and uh because we're

24:11
we're protecting

24:12
his identity you know as we go deeper

24:14
into this and he comes back on

24:16
fun with annuities we're going to go

24:18
into specific

24:19
strategies you know annual

24:20
point-to-point and monthly sum and all

24:22
the stuff that you hear

24:24
um being pitched and it sounds great uh

24:27
he's going to break them down and and

24:29
really tear them apart so you fully

24:31
fully

24:32
understand it but once but i will tell

24:34
you this if you

24:35
call stan the annuity man and say hey i

24:37
want about index annuity

24:39
my question is why are you buying it

24:41
because you're looking for a future

24:43
income stream in the income riders

24:45
um or are you just looking for

24:47
accumulation

24:48
those are two separate com conversations

24:50
i do here's one i want to ask you

24:52
mr x the income riders which i think i

24:56
mean they are commodity products when

24:57
people want future income we shop all

25:00
income riders for the highest

25:01
contractual guarantee but explain

25:03
that you told me this a while back and

25:05
it's never left me

25:07
how the fees on an income rider are

25:09
calculated

25:10
and why annuity companies have the big

25:12
buildings understanding that the income

25:14
rider fees

25:14
come out of the accumulation value which

25:17
further waters down any potential return

25:19
talk about that well it gets better than

25:22
that they always get their fee

25:24
see this is what the people don't

25:26
explain this goes back

25:28
to it's not the product's fault right

25:31
it's the agent it's the advisor it's the

25:34
whatever name you want to give them

25:35
it's their fault because they don't

25:38
explain it because i think if i

25:39
explained it in full detail

25:41
you might take a deep breath before you

25:44
jump to say the least okay

25:48
the challenge with the income rider is

25:51
the way they were originally presented

25:53
was

25:53
people thought it was real money

25:57
is it real money stan it's a monopoly

25:59
money and a phantom account and jimmy

26:01
carter yield doesn't exist he's building

26:03
houses in georgia hopefully if he's

26:04
still alive

26:06
and then so so the way the fee works is

26:08
very simple and you can demonstrate this

26:10
with a just get a bunch of change on the

26:12
table and

26:13
and i'll show you is every year

26:18
we'll just say it's seven percent

26:19
because this makes easy numbers i put a

26:20
hundred thousand dollars in i have a

26:22
seven percent income writer i'm at 107

26:24
000 in my income account so put that on

26:27
the right side of the ledger

26:28
mm-hmm and then say the account return

26:31
four and a half percent

26:32
my real value is 104

26:35
0.5 104 hundred

26:38
the fee is one percent that's tricky

26:40
standard right right

26:42
they take one percent off the 104

26:47
it gets deducted so it gets deducted

26:48
from the 104. they take one percent from

26:51
107 so that's one that's

26:52
a thousand and seventy dollars off of

26:55
the 104.5

26:58
next year we'll say it does zero

27:01
my income accounts 114 and change

27:06
my account is 103 and change

27:09
now they take that one percent

27:13
times 114 and subtract it from the 103.

27:16
the company always gets paid

27:20
the most and and as long as you defer

27:22
that income rider

27:24
that inc that fee is increasing by that

27:26
lovely percentage that you think and it

27:28
was sold as yield and it's not it's

27:31
increasing by that and then once you do

27:32
turn on the income stream

27:35
mr x isn't that growing fee locked in

27:38
permanently

27:39
forever they're gonna take that cut

27:41
forever so let's do it this way

27:43
everyone knows at 10 years 7.2 percent

27:46
interest your money doubles correct

27:48
so your one percent fee in year one

27:52
at the end of year ten is now

27:55
two percent how did you get there well

27:57
your hundred grew to two hundred didn't

27:59
stand

27:59
correct from contractually the income

28:01
rider side is where 200 000 is monopoly

28:04
money in a phantom account you can't

28:05
cash in or

28:06
get the interest but it's that's where

28:08
the the

28:09
lifetime income stream is going to be

28:10
calculated at 200.

28:12
right so your monopoly money the

28:14
insurance companies real money

28:17
correct and that and they take that

28:20
monopoly money

28:21
account and multiply that and deduct it

28:24
from your real money

28:25
now here's the wild part for the life of

28:27
the policy

28:28
for the life of the policy they always

28:30
get their cut forever

28:32
right it's their annuity it's the

28:35
insurance companies

28:36
the income riders their annuity stream

28:38
that they get paid forever

28:41
here's the craziest part

28:44
people think well if i live long enough

28:46
i'll beat the rider

28:49
you're going to have to live to maybe

28:50
110 120 to beat to beat the whole thing

28:54
it is a transfer bridge and here's why

28:57
let's go there they have taken fees for

29:00
the first 10 years that you were

29:01
accumulating

29:02
correct we'll assume you turn it on into

29:05
at the end of the start of the 11th year

29:06
you turn on the rider

29:07
right correct now i'm year 11 and

29:12
i'm living they still are taking the fee

29:14
right

29:15
every year out of the accumulation value

29:18
now the sales

29:19
pitch is it's guaranteed income forever

29:23
you'll never run out which is important

29:26
and it's true and it is true and

29:29
guaranteed

29:30
contractual sure but they keep taking

29:33
that feat

29:35
so when you finally spend all your money

29:39
the insurance company will keep paying

29:42
but think about it let's say this whole

29:45
thing took 25 years

29:47
right he related 10 and i lived 15.

29:52
that's 25 years of fees that they've

29:54
collected

29:56
they're they're going to win and i think

29:58
you've come to your

30:00
money back now and you're in your com

30:02
you've come to the annuity fork in the

30:04
road

30:05
and and this is what i tell people

30:07
annuities are contracts you either like

30:09
the contractual guarantee or you don't

30:11
you have to come to the reality that the

30:13
annuity company is going to make their

30:14
money

30:15
but you're transferring the risk to the

30:18
annuity company to pay you a lifetime

30:19
income stream whether that's an

30:20
immediate annuity a deferred income

30:22
annuity qualified longevity annuity

30:24
contract or an income rider

30:25
these are pension type products but you

30:28
know you already own if you

30:29
if you're a citizen of this country we

30:31
already own the best inflation annuity

30:32
on the planet it's called social

30:33
security

30:35
i think what mr x is trying to say is

30:38
nothing's for

30:38
free now the other thing i want you to

30:41
talk about

30:42
is what percentage of the time

30:45
when someone attaches an income writer

30:48
to an indexed annuity

30:50
does the accumulation value exceed the

30:52
income writer value

30:56
i have to answer that it's a it's it's

31:00
either it's really low or

31:01
zero correct uh i would say it's so

31:04
beyond

31:05
rare well let me just do this for you

31:07
i'll give you an example

31:09
if you buy a capped product

31:13
never because four will never beat seven

31:17
fair ever and i think that annuity

31:20
companies are smart they want to take

31:22
they want

31:22
lifetime um fees on the policy so when a

31:26
an income rider is attached um

31:29
they know that that person has to stay

31:32
in the policy because if you wanted to

31:33
transfer that policy

31:34
the income rider benefits don't transfer

31:36
just the accumulation value so it's

31:38
really

31:39
i call handcuffing uh you into the

31:42
policy that's not a bad thing if you

31:43
need

31:44
income down the road you know what you

31:45
know what it won't you want it to be

31:47
and you want to know to the penny what

31:48
that's going to be but just understand

31:51
for the people out there that have

31:52
already purchased an index annuity with

31:54
the writer

31:55
don't just watch the writer don't just

31:57
think it's jimmy carter yield

32:00
turn on the income stream transfer the

32:02
risk because otherwise

32:05
why do you own it right well

32:08
you're paying for something you're not

32:09
using

32:11
correct you're paying for it take the

32:13
advantage take the

32:14
take the the opportunity to get that

32:18
income and do it and there's some

32:19
strategies

32:20
that i have done over my career that

32:24
kind of like an income annuity ride or

32:26
rescue because stan you and i have

32:28
very candid and honest conversations

32:31
with each other

32:31
not every client needs an annuity

32:34
correct

32:35
not every client needs an annuity income

32:37
writer

32:38
correct typically a majority of them

32:40
don't need the income rider

32:42
but it was put on there because that's

32:44
how it was for lack of a better term

32:46
sold yeah you could always do what i

32:49
call a defer

32:50
to spea strategy which is by the index

32:53
annuity for the accumulation knowing

32:55
the realities of the returned um and

32:57
then at the time you need income you can

32:59
convert that or transfer that to

33:02
an immediate annuity for the highest

33:03
contractual lifetime income

33:05
i got a question just hit me and you'll

33:08
get a better tax

33:10
ratio if it's not if it's not qualified

33:12
you are

33:13
non-ira you are correct what's your

33:15
opinion mr x

33:16
on the current trend this one blows the

33:19
top of my head up i want to see if it

33:20
blows the mask off your face

33:22
hopefully it won't because we need you

33:24
incognito

33:25
um when when advisors

33:30
and masters of the universe as i call

33:32
them sell an indexed annuity and then

33:34
put a rap

33:35
fee on it meaning that they're charging

33:37
an annual fee for the management of a

33:39
product that can only be changed one

33:41
time per year

33:42
am i missing something or is that the

33:44
most ridiculous thing i've ever heard

33:46
well i think that should be illegal i

33:48
think it should be malpractice

33:50
because you're not managing anything the

33:52
insurance company took on all the risk

33:53
you're not you have no risk

33:55
and you were paid pretty much all up

33:57
front to service that contract

34:00
now some of the guys may take their

34:01
money in a trail to where they get a

34:03
little bit every year for what they do

34:05
right well that was your option but

34:08
there's no

34:09
it's kind of like a set it and forget it

34:11
i put it in here

34:13
once a year i have to take a look at it

34:14
which you everyone should be reviewing

34:16
their stuff

34:17
minimum of once a year so depending on

34:20
where your things sit it could be

34:21
quarterly semi-annually but definitely

34:23
once a year

34:24
far enough that that practice that i'm

34:27
seeing more and more and more because

34:29
you know coming from the firms i used to

34:30
work with more dean witter payne weber

34:32
morgan stanley ubs the trend was to have

34:35
everything wrapped meaning that every

34:38
asset under management

34:40
had an annual fee that the advisor

34:42
charged that wasn't for the good of the

34:43
client by the way

34:44
that's so the firms could track future

34:46
revenue don't be confused

34:48
period i mean that was all it was for

34:51
and for

34:51
people to and advisors to sell an

34:55
indexed annuity

34:56
and firms are actually out there pushing

34:58
this

34:59
on the rias to wrap the indexed annuity

35:03
i have yet to have anybody explain to me

35:07
why that's good for the consumer can you

35:12
if you're an r8 you're supposed to be

35:14
looking out for the fiduciary obligation

35:16
to the client

35:17
your interests are first not mine i

35:19
don't see how

35:20
wrapping an account and getting an

35:22
annual fee

35:24
for doing nothing exactly i mean

35:27
it's a it's a fixed annuity i think one

35:29
of the positives about index annuities

35:31
it's a fixed annuity you are not going

35:33
to lose money so when people say market

35:35
upside with no downside

35:36
half of that's true no downside you know

35:39
one of the things i think about

35:40
we've had these these and you know

35:44
one of the things i would say is life

35:45
happens right right

35:47
life just happens imagine if you had all

35:49
your stuff at your stock broker

35:51
and something tragic god forbid happened

35:53
to your broker and life happened to him

35:55
and he wasn't kind of keeping his eye on

35:57
the ball right

35:58
meaning the ball is your retirement

36:02
everything you work for your whole life

36:04
and you wake up one day he's like well i

36:06
you know i had this happen and that

36:08
happened i really wasn't paying

36:09
attention

36:09
and now your account's worth you know

36:11
half of what it was because he didn't

36:12
pay attention

36:14
to where the annuity is if we never paid

36:16
attention to it

36:17
really doesn't matter does it for the

36:19
most part because well it's all

36:20
controversially guaranteed and it's

36:21
going to do what it says it's going to

36:22
do

36:24
pretty simple why is the industry

36:27
complicated things with over 700

36:31
index options that i think you told me a

36:33
long time ago

36:35
is and tell me if this is still true

36:37
most of them

36:38
you can't say all but most are designed

36:40
to pretty much

36:41
return the same range correct they're

36:44
all going to return relatively the same

36:46
range

36:46
here's here's a couple of parts i'll

36:48
give some fact and i'll give some

36:50
opinion

36:51
okay fact is cost plays an enormous

36:54
part in this and here's what i mean

36:58
insurance companies have to make money

37:01
okay so if an option cost in we'll just

37:05
call it option

37:06
index a okay the obstacles in index a is

37:10
really expensive

37:12
and that makes our roi go down as a

37:14
company

37:16
well hey i've got this option b over

37:19
here

37:20
to where the cost of it's 50 percent

37:22
less and we make more revenue

37:24
well will it work well heck our back

37:25
testing says it works

37:27
why not interest

37:31
interesting which leads us back to

37:33
because it's truly a cosplay is why you

37:35
see

37:36
all these um exotic creative

37:39
i'm not saying that they're not trying

37:41
to find the clients a better return

37:43
i truly believe they are and here's why

37:45
because if it doesn't go well

37:47
you know everybody pulls their money out

37:48
they don't care about taxes they just

37:50
say heck with it it'll get moved at some

37:52
point so i truly do think they're

37:54
trying to find a way to generate that

37:56
better than average chance at a better

37:57
than average turn

37:59
but in doing so cost plays a major

38:01
factor in that we have to find options

38:04
that are affordable so we can get that

38:06
better than average chance at that

38:08
return

38:10
and i'm not against indices made up out

38:13
of midair because i think you're right i

38:14
think they're trying to find a better

38:16
mousetrap for the return what i am

38:18
against is the back testing of an indice

38:20
that didn't exist

38:21
i remember looking at one i remember a

38:24
long time ago

38:25
you and i looked at one that was the

38:28
the investor didn't even exist and they

38:30
had it in there and it said it would

38:32
have been this if this existed well how

38:33
do you know it would

38:34
that didn't exist no i agree

38:38
with companies okay let's just say your

38:40
xyz annuity company and you're going to

38:42
do an index annuity and you don't want

38:43
to do

38:44
the typical s p 500 index and you want

38:47
to create one out of midair

38:49
how does that process work are they

38:50
running algorithms to find

38:53
the return that they want and then they

38:55
name it

38:56
yeah they create what they'll do is

38:58
they'll create stuff that they've

38:59
looked at a lot of these investment

39:00
banks are really big companies they have

39:02
all these different portfolios and they

39:04
say well if we took the piece from here

39:05
in a piece from here a piece from here

39:07
and we put it together

39:08
we frankenstein right right we put it

39:12
together

39:12
and then they'll run some companies will

39:16
run

39:16
more simulations than others this is a

39:19
big

39:20
this is a big piece of the puzzle right

39:21
here if you run like

39:24
20 000 simulations of all different

39:27
ways that could be construed as

39:30
legitimate

39:32
that's a lot of different cuts and

39:34
slices to look at this

39:35
okay that's i mean you know you're

39:37
running 10 15 20 000

39:39
different scenarios that's

39:42
that is doing some due diligence so to

39:45
speak

39:46
sure what if you ran 100

39:51
and and nobody knows except the people

39:54
working at those annuity companies what

39:55
they're

39:56
what they're doing uh with that only the

39:58
sausage maker and the insurance company

40:00
know

40:00
how many scenarios and what they're

40:02
running and then the process those

40:03
status

40:04
is interesting because the companies

40:06
suddenly have in-house

40:08
uh design people somehow outsource the

40:11
design

40:11
right they run it they bring it in and

40:13
they all cross and check each other and

40:15
do the stuff

40:16
but i think at the end of the day i

40:17
don't think there's anything wrong with

40:19
making an

40:20
index and trying you know to find a

40:22
better mousetrap i think

40:24
i think that's just called technology

40:26
and growth and and everything

40:28
i do have an issue with the back testing

40:31
how they back test it how many times

40:32
they backtest it

40:34
where they backtest it why you know i

40:36
want to know what the framework was that

40:38
you did

40:39
all that from that's important and that

40:42
doesn't get

40:42
shared that's just a you know you'll get

40:45
a call from

40:46
a marketing company that stands the

40:48
latest and greatest

40:50
these are the returns and when you start

40:52
asking really deep

40:53
questions right the 25 or 30 year old

40:57
kid on the other end of the line that

40:58
this was his first job out of college he

40:59
just never left

41:00
right i think that's a really big issue

41:04
is because

41:05
the people at the companies the

41:07
marketing companies

41:08
and i think you wanted to go here so

41:10
this might be a good segue yeah

41:11
yeah you have the insurance company who

41:14
builds the product so think of them

41:15
almost like a

41:16
budweiser or general motors right and

41:19
then you have these marketing agencies

41:20
so those are the distributors think of

41:22
it like a car

41:23
dealer or like a budweiser

41:24
distributorship or whatever your

41:26
favorite beer might be

41:27
right keystone in your in your case

41:29
right so

41:30
they uh they have the the distributors

41:35
well the people working at the

41:36
distributors work with

41:38
people like stan

41:41
if i understand the wrong information if

41:44
i didn't

41:45
have the answer and i just make it up on

41:47
the whim

41:48
what's my liability and the annuity

41:51
companies have these

41:53
marketing organizations in the middle

41:55
i'm assuming

41:56
to transfer the risk of of liability is

41:58
that the reason there's that extra step

42:00
in there

42:01
i don't know 99 of the carriers no i

42:04
i don't think so here's why because i

42:06
think if there's liability

42:08
where whenever attorneys want to go for

42:10
liability where do they go

42:11
they go they go to the money pit

42:13
absolutely pockets absolutely so they're

42:15
always they're going to get everybody up

42:16
up the panel the reason why they take it

42:19
to these companies now the insurance

42:20
company

42:21
doesn't have to have the expense of a

42:23
marketing company

42:25
they've outsourced the marketing to

42:26
where the answer for these entrepreneurs

42:29
which by the way do a way better job

42:30
than the insurance companies ever do

42:32
true marketing because true they're

42:35
thinking

42:36
um you know insurance companies are like

42:40
big cruise ships and they don't turn

42:41
very fast

42:42
if you're if you're an entrepreneur you

42:44
can

42:45
you can turn quickly so they took that

42:48
to them they give them all this you know

42:50
what they need and they'll pay them

42:52
extra a few things bonuses

42:54
you know you do our stuff and you get it

42:56
out

42:57
so they get to be creative on how they

42:59
want to get that out and so when you

43:00
have that marketing company i just

43:02
it's a less expensive insurance company

43:04
you don't have to hire you know 150

43:07
people in the marketing team to do all

43:08
this stuff

43:10
you just give it to the entrepreneurs

43:11
and let them do their thing well the

43:13
the final topic i want to talk about

43:14
because this this keeps coming back to

43:16
cost

43:17
i know this is this is uh this has been

43:20
fascinating of course

43:21
you know i've written a book on index

43:22
annuities the fixed index annuity

43:24
owner's manual i'll send it to you for

43:25
free you go to the annuityman.com and

43:27
i've done

43:27
hundreds pushing 400 videos on the

43:30
stanley new demand youtube channel

43:32
and a lot of them are on index annuities

43:34
so if you want to do that you can

43:35
do that as well but what i want to close

43:37
with because this has been fantastic and

43:39
again we're going to have mr x on

43:41
to go we're going to dig deep this is

43:43
just foundational we're getting ready to

43:45
with

43:45
the future podcast really go into the

43:47
strategies and things like that

43:49
but let's talk about commission let me

43:52
preface the commission

43:53
thing with all annuity commissions are

43:55
built into the product and you have to

43:57
look at them

43:58
like an administrative clause like an

43:59
electro electrical bill water bill

44:01
it's just part of the overall cost but

44:04
they are hidden from the client so

44:06
someone ever says well i'm not gonna

44:07
invite

44:07
they're lying okay um and index

44:10
annuities

44:11
uh typically have pretty high um

44:14
commissions when compared to simplistic

44:16
annuities and a lot of it has to come to

44:18
come down to the longer the surrender

44:19
charge the higher the commission

44:21
does it make it bad because when you put

44:23
a hundred thousand dollars in

44:24
a hundred thousand dollars goes to work

44:26
and you see it on your statement but

44:27
with all of that being said in that

44:29
foundation laid

44:31
mr x what is the typical

44:35
i guess the lack of a better phrase load

44:37
commission load

44:38
total for the distributor the bonus

44:42
the atta boys the soft money and then

44:44
the commission to the agent what is that

44:46
ballpark with a 10-year

44:50
indexed annuity i'll i'll make it so

44:53
easy for the client to figure out

44:55
good that's why basically take the

44:58
surrender charge so if i put a hundred

44:59
thousand dollars in

45:01
what's my if i want to quit tomorrow

45:03
what do i got

45:04
so let's just say it's ten percent let's

45:06
say it's ninety thousand so ten percent

45:08
right right

45:09
okay that's generally the load and i

45:12
would probably add one or two

45:14
maybe three percent more on top of that

45:16
so you're saying 10 to 12

45:18
percent load works gross

45:22
for everyone and everyone that has their

45:24
little hands in it to get paid that's

45:26
the

45:26
distributor and then and then there's

45:28
back in bonuses to

45:30
some of the distributors there's all

45:32
kinds of soft money that no one ever

45:34
sees and

45:34
and most agents aren't even aware of but

45:37
you're saying

45:38
i'm a 10 year now obviously the shorter

45:40
the duration the less

45:42
of that load but let's most um index

45:45
annuities sold

45:47
you know i don't know what the stat is

45:48
but i'm assuming that they're pretty

45:50
longer term in length am i correct well

45:52
they are generally that 10 12

45:54
year in length and and this doesn't make

45:57
it bad

45:58
no and here's why i'll explain that

46:01
longer term assets generally

46:03
generally yield higher return

46:06
correct let's keep it simple if you buy

46:09
a one-year cd or a five-year cd which

46:11
one do you make more money in

46:12
yep correct that's a trick question

46:14
neither because cds are horrible

46:16
but in theory you make more of the five

46:19
years because

46:20
you've committed to a longer time the

46:22
annuities are no different if you can

46:23
commit to a longer time frame

46:25
they can give you higher participation

46:27
or a higher interest rate or a higher

46:28
cost so they're buying better options

46:30
the longer the term the option the

46:32
better deal they're getting

46:34
correct correct and the reason why is

46:36
the longer the term that option is the

46:38
cheaper it is to buy so if i have to

46:40
shell out less money

46:41
for expenses right i can put more back

46:44
into

46:45
the client it's a big teeter-totters the

46:48
best way to

46:48
describe it i think i think this has

46:51
been fascinating mr x because i think it

46:53
really comes down to this

46:54
cost it's all costs it's all

46:58
it's all costs on its cost to the

47:00
insurance company

47:02
it's cost to the agent and or the

47:06
the rep or whatever term you want to

47:07
give them and here's why

47:10
if he wants to go a shorter term he

47:12
makes less money

47:13
if he goes longer term he makes more if

47:16
you go longer term

47:17
you may make more if you go shorter you

47:21
may make less so

47:22
this is where this is where it comes

47:24
down to and i i know

47:26
this is a favorite of ours it's your

47:28
money

47:29
tell me what you wanted to do for you

47:31
and that

47:32
sincerely may be the toughest question

47:34
you will get asked

47:36
and that comes i always ask people two

47:38
questions what do you want the money to

47:39
contractually do and when you want those

47:40
contractual guarantees to start

47:42
and if someone answers me market growth

47:44
then you know i wish them a good day and

47:46
have a nice debt

47:47
but um you know i think in conclusion

47:49
with all of this

47:52
indexed annuities have their place their

47:54
their

47:55
principal protected life insurance

47:57
products issued at the state level

48:00
that that are going to give you my cd

48:02
type returns

48:04
and they will lock in at the end of that

48:06
uh indexed

48:07
option duration but the way that we

48:10
really like to use them as a as a

48:12
efficient and cost-effective delivery

48:13
system for future income

48:15
using income riders and if you answer

48:16
the questions hey stan i need income

48:19
and i need to start six years from now

48:21
we're gonna we're going to quote income

48:23
riders all income riders and all

48:24
deferred income annuities

48:26
because annuities are commodity products

48:28
there's not one that's better than the

48:29
others not one index annuity that's

48:30
better than the other and if someone

48:32
says to you

48:33
i've looked at all the index annuities

48:34
and this is the best one

48:36
that is a bald-faced lie am i right mr x

48:39
grab your money and run

48:41
and run and here's and here's why and

48:44
here's why

48:45
he didn't explore 700 indexed news i

48:47
promise you he did it and then here's

48:49
what he'll say next

48:50
well i went to the sperm and my firm

48:52
does all the research and this is what

48:53
they came up with

48:55
let me tell you how they came up with

48:56
them okay

48:58
there's a couple of reasons i give you

49:00
maybe three or four

49:02
number one is they typically have a

49:04
ledger or some type of software they'll

49:06
say if i put 100 000 in i'm this age and

49:08
at

49:08
this time frame who pays me the highest

49:10
income

49:12
right so it spits out in numerical order

49:15
from the highest payout to the lowest

49:17
payout

49:18
so that's one piece of research

49:20
typically

49:22
lesser-rated companies pay more money

49:27
so here's my question

49:30
the guaranteed payout is only good as

49:32
the company guaranteeing it

49:34
definitely definitely here this is a big

49:36
deal

49:37
because i have guys that sell and i'm

49:39
not saying if you're

49:40
you know the companies are rated aad

49:42
like kind of like school a plus

49:45
if i get a b rated company maybe one in

49:48
a thousand

49:50
goes bankrupt versus an a rated company

49:52
sure

49:53
i just killed my luck i'll be the one

49:55
that did that

49:56
that that happens and so that's very

49:59
important

49:59
the second side of that coin is

50:02
typically the annuity that gets

50:03
presented is

50:04
and and this is hard to hear is where do

50:07
i make the most

50:08
where do i get the bonus where do i and

50:10
when i say i i don't mean the client

50:13
yeah the agent the agent where am i

50:15
getting you

50:17
that's the decision they're making i

50:18
think the whole thing could be solved if

50:20
and i know this will never happen

50:21
because it makes too much sense and we

50:22
got to close with this is

50:24
if all annuity types and there's not

50:26
just one annuity type

50:27
if all annuity types had the same

50:28
commission level

50:30
then it'd be a better world because then

50:33
it would you know

50:34
agents wouldn't be making the decision

50:35
on the commission

50:37
they'd be making a decision on the

50:38
solution but again i'm dreaming

50:40
mr x and you do know that but i i'm with

50:43
you and i think one of the other things

50:44
that the agents take into consideration

50:46
is well

50:47
i understand this paperwork i don't

50:49
understand this new company's paperwork

50:51
i know that sounds crazy that's pretty

50:53
elementary yeah exactly

50:56
so i know it sounds crazy but it's true

51:00
and then i mean my list goes on so we'll

51:03
we'll keep here yeah we're go

51:04
yeah we we're we're all well i mean we

51:07
could talk about this all the time and i

51:08
and i'm i'm so happy that you joined us

51:10
mr x

51:11
um and you'll be back we're going to dig

51:14
in

51:14
this will be a series with him so that

51:17
we can

51:18
fully dig into index and news once again

51:20
we like them we just don't like the way

51:21
they're sold

51:23
uh you know they are duties should be

51:25
bought not sold and the problem is is

51:27
that they're sold

51:28
well and as as i say with indexed

51:30
annuities they're not too good to be

51:32
true but they're pretty damn good if you

51:34
understand them and

51:36
and that's kind of why we're having mr x

51:38
on is to

51:39
rip away all of that so you if you go to

51:41
the bad chicken dinner seminar or if

51:43
somebody pitches you

51:44
to too good to be true these podcasts

51:47
are going to clarify and then you can

51:48
forward the podcast to the selling agent

51:50
maybe they'll learn something but

51:51
with that hey i really appreciate you

51:54
joining us and thanks for all the

51:55
podcast listeners

51:56
and youtube viewers we'll see you next

51:59
week on

52:00
fun with annuities

52:08
thanks for listening to fun with

52:10
annuities please hit the subscribe

52:11
button and make sure to go to my site

52:14
at the annuityman.com where you can run

52:16
your own spea

52:18
dia and culat quotes and see a live feed

52:20
of the best mega fix rates

52:22
in the country and even get indexed and

52:25
income rider quotes as well

52:27
you can also sign up for my six annuity

52:30
owner's manual books and i'll ship them

52:32
for free and under no obligation i also

52:35
encourage you to schedule a one-on-one

52:37
call with me

52:38
stan the annuity man so we can have a

52:40
full discussion

52:41
of your specific situation it will be

52:44
the best

52:44
brutally factual and truthful advice you

52:48
will ever get and that's one guarantee

52:50
you should definitely take advantage of

52:52
so join me next time for the number one

52:54
annuity podcast

52:55
on the planet fun with annuities

53:01
[Music]